The Indictment of John Cena | WrestleZone Forums

The Indictment of John Cena

Kliq69

WZ's King of Controversy (00-05)
Let me begin this by saying I don't "hate" John Cena. I respect what he does outside of the ring, I would never say he can't wrestle, and I believe he truly earned his spot at the top of the company. However, in the words of Owen Hart, Enough is Enough and it's time for a change.

This thread came to mind as I was in the comment section of the Raw results tonight on the main site. I was arguing with a user about whether or not the match between Cena and Cesaro was wasted because of the finish. I believed the match was wasted as Cesaro needed the win to be viewed as a legitimate challenger for the title in the Chamber match and Cena didn't need any momentum going into the match to be viewed as a viable contender. The other user postulated that taking Cena to the limit was just as good in terms of making Cesaro look credible.

That's what finally made me realize exactly what my issue is with Cena.

It isn't the amount of title reigns. It isn't the fact that he rarely loses and even more rarely loses cleanly. It isn't how he's always in or near the main event. It isn't that there are other guys I'd rather see in his spot. It isn't his match quality, his promos, or his kid-centric gimmick.

My problem is that a guy coming from a midcard level tag team into his first main event slot taking Cena to the limit should be a big deal. It should be a sign that he's a contender, but it isn't because nearly every single John Cena match shows the opponent taking Cena to the limit and Cena winning anyway.

It doesn't matter if he's against Brock Lesnar or Santino, John Cena is going to bump like crazy, make the other guy look credible, and then beat them. That shouldn't be the case.

In the past, there were clearly defined lines as to who was the top "Superstars" and who weren't. If the top guys faced a bottom tier guy or middle tier guy, they won quickly and handily unless there were mitigating circumstances like stipulations against them or interference. Now, one month Kofi can beat the World Champ cleanly and the next month lose cleanly to Jack Shwagger. A few years ago we witnessed The Miz not being able to cleanly beat Jerry Lawler and yet he picked up a victory over Cena at Mania.

What John Cena needs to fix this is a series of squash matches against lower to mid tier talent. I'm talking hit the ring, counter into his finish and go home. Make it look like Cena (and really any top level talent) is just that much better than all the guys below them to the point that even coming close to beating them is an achievement. Right now, there is no benefit from "almost beating" Cena because every single person he faces "almost beats" Cena.

WWE wonders why the current generation of "stars" aren't viewed in the same light as the older stars and this is the main reason why. The stars of yesteryear only looked vulnerable against other top level talent, the "stars" of today look vulnerable in nearly every single match they're in whether it's against another main eventer or a curtain jerking jobber.

Trading wins and building up the entire roster to look like credible threats doesn't work. There has to be jobbers, there has to be clearly defined midcarders, and there needs to be clearly defined main event talent that are portrayed as so much better than the rest of the roster that "almost winning" has nearly as much value as winning does.
 
Thats the exact reason I watch wrestling. Its my "stories"
I like it when they mix it up. Just like you said when Cena wins all the time its kinda boring. Just like seeing 3MB wrestle, I know they will lose. Its boring. So mixing it up with fluke wins and loses is a good idea.
 
I don't have a problem with Cena winning. Not at all. He's the top guy on the roster.

My problem is that nearly beating Cena means nothing as everyone he faces nearly beats him.

Anymore, there isn't a clear distinction between who the top stars are and who aren't. It's diminished the quality of the main event when it appears that any random guy can compete with or beat the top guys in the company.
 
1985 man....1985....that's where your booking philosophy comes from.

It's about STORIES. No one gives a shit who you beat or your W/L record (to an extent). If you tell a compelling story and are a character people care about, people will make noise for you. Daniel Bryan hasn't won the title and is the most over guy on the roster. Why? Because he's a compelling wrestler in a compelling underdog storyline.

Cena is fine. He works the people who boo him. If you think he doesn't, you're delusional.
 
1985 man....1985....that's where your booking philosophy comes from.

It's about STORIES. No one gives a shit who you beat or your W/L record (to an extent). If you tell a compelling story and are a character people care about, people will make noise for you. Daniel Bryan hasn't won the title and is the most over guy on the roster. Why? Because he's a compelling wrestler in a compelling underdog storyline.

Cena is fine. He works the people who boo him. If you think he doesn't, you're delusional.

No one cares about win/loss records. However they do care about wins and losses. You can't tell me that Cesaro's near win tonight wouldn't have been more impressive if Cena didn't always look like he was nearly beaten.

Outside of Bryan and what the Shield/Wyatt is working on, name a compelling story currently on WWE tv.

There has been no compelling argument that traditional booking and storytelling isn't more effective on getting talent over than the modern version. One could make a case that a more adult oriented booking could create more compelling programming as the two biggest high points in wrestling were targeted towards a more mature audience (attitude era, early nWo wcw) however no one in the modern era has been able to get over like the stars of yesteryear could in terms of main stream notoriety. Most people do not have a clue who John Cena is, or Cena or Bryan for that matter. They still know who Hogan, Savage, Austin, and the Rock are. One could make a case that the type of character building and story lines they use aren't as effective at making true stars.
 
No one cares about win/loss records. However they do care about wins and losses. You can't tell me that Cesaro's near win tonight wouldn't have been more impressive if Cena didn't always look like he was nearly beaten.

Outside of Bryan and what the Shield/Wyatt is working on, name a compelling story currently on WWE tv.

There has been no compelling argument that traditional booking and storytelling isn't more effective on getting talent over than the modern version. One could make a case that a more adult oriented booking could create more compelling programming as the two biggest high points in wrestling were targeted towards a more mature audience (attitude era, early nWo wcw) however no one in the modern era has been able to get over like the stars of yesteryear could in terms of main stream notoriety. Most people do not have a clue who John Cena is, or Cena or Bryan for that matter. They still know who Hogan, Savage, Austin, and the Rock are. One could make a case that the type of character building and story lines they use aren't as effective at making true stars.
WWE has never been adult oriented. The Attitude Era was about as adult as a Beavis and Butt Head episode.

Anything Zeb Coulter does is more relevant to the world, complex, and adult than anything ever done in the WWE or any other wrestling company I can think of ever. He's so poignant.

Most people have no clue who John Cena is? lol okay. You seem like a nostalgia mark. Cena is as big as Hogan, Savage, Rock, and Austin. He's one of the most followed and most liked athletes in the world. And yes, social media stats do matter, part of why the WWE is going to sign a massive TV deal.

Maybe Cena should destroy lower mid card guys, course people on here would still bitch about that. At the end of the day, people remember Cesaro's match and that's all that matters.
 
WWE has never been adult oriented. The Attitude Era was about as adult as a Beavis and Butt Head episode.

Anything Zeb Coulter does is more relevant to the world, complex, and adult than anything ever done in the WWE or any other wrestling company I can think of ever. He's so poignant.

Most people have no clue who John Cena is? lol okay. You seem like a nostalgia mark. Cena is as big as Hogan, Savage, Rock, and Austin. He's one of the most followed and most liked athletes in the world. And yes, social media stats do matter, part of why the WWE is going to sign a massive TV deal.

Maybe Cena should destroy lower mid card guys, course people on here would still bitch about that. At the end of the day, people remember Cesaro's match and that's all that matters.

It was more adult oriented, not adult oriented. Kind of like walking dead or family guy. I'd say family guy is more adult oriented than Spongebob, but wouldn't necessarily say it was "adult oriented".

I'd say most people don't have any idea who John Cena is. Not that many people are following him, he's in the single millions. That's not very many compared to the 300 million or so people in the US. It'd be an interesting test case, however I just know from personal experience that of half the people I know and have met/asked have no idea who John Cena is or any of the modern guys. They could name Austin, or Hogan, some even Flair or Taker, but not Cena or Orton or Batista. Rock's probably the top one based on his acting career, but Hogan is right there as far as being commonly known.

I think people will remember Cesaro losing to Cena... Clean... After hitting him with everything he could. If Cesaro was going to lose, why not at least have Coulter/Swagger interfere to cheapen the loss?

As far as Coulter saying anything of consequence. He's close, but he's nowhere near talking about the things he could/should be. He's not even as controversial as Glenn Beck and Beck was nothing but a useful idiot. Nothing about Detroit failing, nothing inflaming tensions against muslims, nothing against the gay craze, nothing about flash mobs, nothing about the knockout game or all the "teens" causing crime rates to skyrocket. Hell he didn't even say anything about the affirmative action based black history bullcrap. Easy target, not a word said. His gimmick would only truly be relevant if he had no filter and could speak the truth.
 
It was more adult oriented, not adult oriented. Kind of like walking dead or family guy. I'd say family guy is more adult oriented than Spongebob, but wouldn't necessarily say it was "adult oriented".

I'd say most people don't have any idea who John Cena is. Not that many people are following him, he's in the single millions. That's not very many compared to the 300 million or so people in the US. It'd be an interesting test case, however I just know from personal experience that of half the people I know and have met/asked have no idea who John Cena is or any of the modern guys. They could name Austin, or Hogan, some even Flair or Taker, but not Cena or Orton or Batista. Rock's probably the top one based on his acting career, but Hogan is right there as far as being commonly known.

I think people will remember Cesaro losing to Cena... Clean... After hitting him with everything he could. If Cesaro was going to lose, why not at least have Coulter/Swagger interfere to cheapen the loss?

As far as Coulter saying anything of consequence. He's close, but he's nowhere near talking about the things he could/should be. He's not even as controversial as Glenn Beck and Beck was nothing but a useful idiot. Nothing about Detroit failing, nothing inflaming tensions against muslims, nothing against the gay craze, nothing about flash mobs, nothing about the knockout game or all the "teens" causing crime rates to skyrocket. Hell he didn't even say anything about the affirmative action based black history bullcrap. Easy target, not a word said. His gimmick would only truly be relevant if he had no filter and could speak the truth.
you don't understand stats. You can't just say "he's in the single millions, there are 300 million people in the US". That means nothing. It'd mean something if the average athlete had hundreds of millions of likes. They don't. He's legitimately one of the most liked athletes in the world.

Coulter doesn't say the things Glenn Beck says because WWE doesn't want to lose credibility. That says more to how much of a fucktard Beck is. Coulter is a smarter character than Beck. You could (some people) intelligently defend Coulter's case. You can't do that with Beck. That's why in the south Coulter is practically a babyface. It's a genius character because he's NOT overdoing it.

I think at the end of the day, you want things that shock people and simply get them to react. That is a very cheap pop way to get over. If this were the attitude era, Coulter would come out and say "******s are the reason this country is in the shitter". He'd be over as hell, but it's cheap. Just like the rest of the Attitude Era undercard. I am not impressed with blood, tits, cussing, and beer to get you over. Which most of the storylines and wrestlers from that era needed. The main eventers didn't, but they were good. Val Venis, Kai En Tai, and Godfather....not so much.

Like I said, maybe your version gets Cesaro more over, maybe it doesn't. At the end of the day, people remember this match and that's good.

I have no idea who you know, they must be extremely far removed from pop culture though. I see John Cena merchandise everywhere and pretty much everyone knows who he is. I'm 24 though, maybe we have different social circles. Either way it's anecdotal. The closest thing we have to go on is social media presence, and John is in anyone's league there from athletics.
 
As far as Coulter saying anything of consequence. He's close, but he's nowhere near talking about the things he could/should be. He's not even as controversial as Glenn Beck and Beck was nothing but a useful idiot. Nothing about Detroit failing, nothing inflaming tensions against muslims, nothing against the gay craze, nothing about flash mobs, nothing about the knockout game or all the "teens" causing crime rates to skyrocket. Hell he didn't even say anything about the affirmative action based black history bullcrap. Easy target, not a word said. His gimmick would only truly be relevant if he had no filter and could speak the truth.

Firstly, that's because Beck just actually full on discriminates. There's no need for that in the world. Secondly, don't blame Zeb/Dutch, blame creative/Vince if you want anyone to blame (I think Zeb is doing a great job at walking the rope between right and wrong) as they're the ones with final say on what he can and cannot do.

Dutch Mantell has had more legitimate heat than anybody on the WWE roster today. Research his work in Puerto Rico, or when he went to Triple A in Mexico with Jeff Jarrett and they got pelted with rocks. The guy knows what he is doing and how to piss people off.
 
Cena cut a promo and said young guys have to go through him to get to the top. No one is getting ahead of him because he will never put a young superstar over clean. I was hoping that with Colter and Swagger outside that Cesaro would have atleast got an interference victory but no Cena still refuses to put a guy a mile better than him over. Cena is never going to let someone earn his number 1 spot and I think Cena fans need to start figuring out that he wants to be the number 1 guy for another 10 years(said it on Total Divas) and you should start to realise that if you think I he is getting stale, imagine where he will be in 8 years time.

Cesaro>Cena
Bryan>Cena
Ziggler>Cena
Big E>Cena
Ambrose>Cena
Rollins>Cena
Wyatt>Cena
Reigns>Cena
Its time for Cena to start putting the young talent over and step aside and let a more talented superstar take his spot. He has had 8 years as the number 1 guy while atleast 50% of the roster is more talented that him and now that number is upto 80% so its time to step aside because WWE have a lot of guys ready to take his spot.
 

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