The good, The bad, The Heart Break Kid! aka Milk's review on Shawn Micheals

[Milkyway!]

^_^ I love all the shots being thrown at me, just because I'm a diehard Bret Hart fan, and lothe Shawn Micheals for what hes done. With all blind hate set aside. Shawn Micheals has had a good career folks. What hes done is nothing less than spectacular. I'm sure anyone that knows me, and has seen my words on Shawn before knows I just don't like him personally. I respect Shawn nonetheless.

While, I don't like much what he does with putting people over, because the people he puts over don't really need it. His wrestling, isn't doing much for the company either. Sorry Harthan, but no matter how much you deny this, at the end of the day. People are NOT watching the Pay per views, because they are looking forward to Shawns matches. Hands down. Sure hes a good show, during the show, but people really only look forward to a good show. Then again, you did say Steamboat vs Jericho at Backlash was a bad match too. >.>

I don't like Shawn Michaels promo cutting skills. Simply because he says hes the best, when theres people MILES ahead of him when it comes to terms of sucess, and entertainment. Yes, Harthan, Wrestling = entertainment. Professional wrestling doesn't = wrestling anymore. It's a purely entertainment aspect, and you know it. Men like Bruno Samartino, Ricky Steamboat, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mick Foley are all better than Shawn Micheals will ever be. I just find it atrocious that anyone can put Shawn Micheals in the same catagory as these men.

Mick Foley has done more for superstars, in terms of making Stars into superstars, than Shawns ever even thought about.

Steamboat was a better wrestler from day one. Putting on clinics with the likes of Flair, making Stone Cold the wrestler he was, and really created the style Shawn Micheals uses today.

Steve Austin is easily the best superstar on the face of this planet. Ever. Revolutionizing the business still today with his styles.

Hulk Hogan did more for the WWE than anyone, ever. Making the WWE go national, cutting out territories, and having the 2nd longest WWE champion reign, ever.

Bruno Samartino held the title longer than anyone ever, and was the biggest draw for the WWE, which layed a foundation for Hulk to really pick up and run on.

Bret Hart was simply a more upgraded, better technical, more entertaining wrestler. That got screwed out of ever going back to the WWE, because of baby back b**** Shawn Michaels.

John Cena is revolutionizing the business today. In what a top WWE superstar is like, and setting a role model for everyone to follow. In a time when Wrestling is declining, John is keeping Raw ratings at a steady 3.3 no matter what (yes I know they've been up for the last few months) and I'm willing to say is easily the best superstar of this decade.

So honestly, what has Shawn ever done for the business. I put Shawn an upper midcard level, anyday of the week. But compared to the main eventors like these. Nuh-uh. No flipping way. Shawn can simply put on a good match. Indy guys can put on a good match, a better match than Shawn can, next thing you know, they will be the greatest superstars ever. Even though their promos are usually a borefest and their entertainment//charisma are at an all time low.

 

[dxparza]

did you just say that Mick Foley is a greater superstar than Shawn Michaels?!? Wow that statement alone deserves an ass beating, hell even Mick foley would slap yo for saying that.. You put hima t upper mid-card anyday?? wow son, you got issues just cause your a bret hart fan. Get over it, it happened almost 12 years ago. Even bret would slap you fo saying shit like this.

 

[Milkyway!]

Mick Foley could put on one of the most entertaining matches, in the world still today. He also created stars, into superstars. Sure he wasn't as technical as the next guy, but I'm convience Mick Foley is in the top 5 greatest stars to ever live, his wrestling ability, was good, once again he wasn't technical. His promos have only ever had 2 peers. Stone Cold, and Hulk Hogan. The thing with Mick though, well for me, was he was willing to litterally put his life on the line to put a superstar over. He made HHH's career. He made Edge back at Wrestlemania 22. The thing Mick has done for this business, putting his life on the line in the process, is an outstanding feat. That no one will ever match.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I only took the time to read the first few posts in the thread, but I think you're purposefully trying to be controversial. You've said before that you're a big Shawn Michaels fan (you even have a Michaels signature), yet you say his promos bore you to death, his matches are average, and his time in the WWE is nothing great. You've claimed that people such as Hogan are better in the ring, yet how many classic Hogan matches can you name off the top of your head? In a much shorter career, I can name many more great HBK matches. Basically, your post is entirely wrong.

Edit: I've just read one of your last posts on the matter. You flip-flop more than John Kerry. In that post, you admitted that Shawn was great in the ring, told us that you loathed him, and said people aren't watching PPVs to see Shawn Michaels and played that off as a fact.

1. Yes, Shawn is great in the ring. He can sell better than anyone in the company, save for John Cena. When he gives his best, he can out-preform anyone else on the roster. Shawn plays to the fans and tells a story in the ring. I'm not sure what else you want out of him.

2. I specifically remember you posting in a bar room thread admitting you really liked Shawn Michaels, just didn't think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

3. This is just a guess, but I'd be willing to bet that more people bought Wrestlemania 25 to watch Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels than Edge/Cena/Show and Triple H/Randy Orton combined.

 

[Milkyway!]

I only took the time to read the first few posts in the thread, but I think you're purposefully trying to be controversial.

No one cares what you think. For a reason I now see. You're wrong on this. If I wanted to be controversial, I'd go post how overrated Eddie Guerrero was. And that if he hadn't died, hed be just where Rey Mysterio is today. But, I'm not shooting for that.

You've said before that you're a big Shawn Michaels fan (you even have a Michaels signature)

,

I said "Shawn Michaels ftw, sometimes" and it showed up on wrestlezone. Actually. The sig is just to promote my thread.

yet you say his promos bore you to death, his matches are average, and his time in the WWE is nothing great.

His matches are good. Once again I give credit where credits due. His promos bore me, because more so than often, they hardly ever change. His time in the WWE is that of an upper midcard wrestler. During the biggest part of his career, he didn't even hold a title. Call it unselfishness, call it whatever, still, hes not held the belt.

You've claimed that people such as Hogan are better in the ring, yet how many classic Hogan matches can you name off the top of your head?

Hogan was a very good wrestler, watch some of his Saturday Night Main Event stuff. He knew how to play the croud, and knew what the croud wanted. He gave them just that, so usually, no we didn't get to see a Hogan clinics. But what Hogan did, was more than just wrestling matches.

In a much shorter career, I can name many more great HBK matches. Basically, your post is entirely wrong.

Basically, you've wasted your time in a meaningless post that proved nothing, on no one. Hey, whats new? HBK is known for his wrestling abilities, when it comes to the croud. Hulk Hogan wasn't. I never said he was an outstanding wrestler, but you most certainly can not deny the fact that Hulk Hogan has done more for the WWE than any wrestler, ever, on the face of this planet.

3. This is just a guess, but I'd be willing to bet that more people bought Wrestlemania 25 to watch Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels than Edge/Cena/Show and Triple H/Randy Orton combined.

Since 1, is what I've been saying the entire time, and 2, is just silly because I've never liked Shawn Michaels. I'll reply to 3.

That could be because Edge/Cena/Show made no since to have Cena involved, and the only two with any build up was Show//Edge. Cena busted his butt in that match nonetheless, and did one of the best jobs hes ever done in a match. It could also be, because Shawn Michaels is the only person in recent history that makes any logical since into breaking the Undertaker streak, and thats one of the things Wrestlemania is about these days, is the streak. Or it could also be, because HHH vs Orton has been done 9 billion times, Orton's had only won once or twice possibly 3 times, out of these encounters. And overall it was a dud of a match in the first place.

I've just read one of your last posts on the matter. You flip-flop more than John Kerry. In that post, you admitted that Shawn was great in the ring, told us that you loathed him, and said people aren't watching PPVs to see Shawn Michaels and played that off as a fact.

Actually. I said Shawn Micheals has good inring skills. And that I loathed him, because of the Screw Job. Thats not contradictory. Work on your reading comp, thanks.

That is a fact. People pay to watch the main event. When was the last time Shawn Michaels was in the main event?

 

[dxparza]

Mick foley will give up his body, Ill give you that, but thats about it. and putting him in the top 5 is just wrong on so many levels.. mick foleys promos rival only that of hogan and austin??? Austin is at the top of the list followed by the rock than hbk, followed by a few others than hogan ( try getting through one of these without hearing brother about half a dozen times) than about a dozen or so others than maybe Mik foley, the single greatest most entertaining thing that mick foley has done is the '' this is your life'' for the rock, and the rock really made that good.

 

[Milkyway!]

Mick foley will give up his body, Ill give you that, but thats about it. and putting him in the top 5 is just wrong on so many levels.. mick foleys promos rival only that of hogan and austin??? Austin is at the top of the list followed by the rock than hbk, followed by a few others than hogan ( try getting through one of these without hearing brother about half a dozen times) than about a dozen or so others than maybe Mik foley, the single greatest most entertaining thing that mick foley has done is the '' this is your life'' for the rock, and the rock really made that good.

Mick puts on an amazing promo everytime he grabs the mic. I give you the Rock, otherwise, these 4 men are peerless when it comes to their promo cutitng skills. HHH is good, but hes no where near these guys levels. Shawn Micheals, is okay, not good, not bad. I'd put on a level right around Matt Hardy when it comes to the microphone. Yes, and "This Is Your Life" also earned an 8.1 on Raw, the highest rating Raw's ever recieved. It was a 30 minute promo, how many men can cut promos that can last 30 minutes, and still draw an 8.1? You've only prooven my point that these 4 men are on a leauge of their own when it comes to mic skills.

 

[dxparza]

I willing to put money on the fact that more people agree with Pretty Young Thing than agree with you there buddy. And pretty young thing is absolutley right, people went to and watched WM25 to see hbk/undertaker. I should know I was there.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

No one cares what you think. For a reason I now see. You're wrong on this. If I wanted to be controversial, I'd go post how overrated Eddie Guerrero was. And that if he hadn't died, hed be just where Rey Mysterio is today. But, I'm not shooting for that.

If you don't care what I think, then why take the time to respond?

I said "Shawn Michaels ftw, sometimes" and it showed up on wrestlezone. Actually. The sig is just to promote my thread.

His matches are good. Once again I give credit where credits due. His promos bore me, because more so than often, they hardly ever change. His time in the WWE is that of an upper midcard wrestler. During the biggest part of his career, he didn't even hold a title. Call it unselfishness, call it whatever, still, hes not held the belt.

Remember that promo where Shawn was in the graveyard prior to WrestleMania 25? That's pretty different than his normal. Now, I'm not a Cena or Hogan hater by any means, but their promos never changed. Cena always talks about how the odds are against him, but he will overcome them and Hogan always tells us where the power lies and asks whatcha' gonna do, when the world's largest arms... ya ya ya.

Hogan was a very good wrestler, watch some of his Saturday Night Main Event stuff. He knew how to play the croud, and knew what the croud wanted. He gave them just that, so usually, no we didn't get to see a Hogan clinics. But what Hogan did, was more than just wrestling matches.

He knew how to tell a story, but again, how many classic Hogan matches can you name? I've got... mmm... One. Hogan vs Warrior.

Basically, you've wasted your time in a meaningless post that proved nothing, on no one. Hey, whats new? HBK is known for his wrestling abilities, when it comes to the croud. Hulk Hogan wasn't. I never said he was an outstanding wrestler, but you most certainly can not deny the fact that Hulk Hogan has done more for the WWE than any wrestler, ever, on the face of this planet.

That last post didn't really make sense... at all. But, I never denied that Hogan did a ton for the company. I was simply saying how you were being unfair to Shawn Michaels, saying that people like Bruno Samartino and Hulk Hogan, who put on very average matches, are more entertaining in the ring than Shawn. I don't want to get in to drawing ability and all that, because that isn't what defines a professional wrestler to me. Don't try to tell me I'm wrong on that. You're not SlyFox.

 

[dxparza]

dude either your mom drank when she was pregnet with you or you are smoking some good shit right now.. Shawn Michaels is on the level of Matt Hardy??, now I know you either on some shit or just plain stupid.. As far as the 'this is your life' promo goes it only worked because of the rock. plain and simple. Foley is remembered for that and the hell in the cell at KOTR, Thats it.. find another promo that hes done thats so memorable, yeah Good luck with that.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

dude either your mom drank when she was pregnet with you or you are smoking some good shit right now.. Shawn Michaels is on the level of Matt Hardy??, now I know you either on some shit or just plain stupid.. As far as the 'this is your life' promo goes it only worked because of the rock. plain and simple. Foley is remembered for that and the hell in the cell at KOTR, Thats it.. find another promo that hes done thats so memorable, yeah Good luck with that.

The promo on the 'tron before his match with Triple H (Cactus Jack's debut; Mankind/Dude Love/Cactus) was one of my all-time favorites. I can't find the video of it, but I assure you, it's wonderful.

I agree with the first part of this post. To say that Shawn Michaels is on the level of Matt Hardy, if you did indeed say that, is ridiculous. There's one difference between Shawn and Matt Hardy. The fans care about Shawn every single time he steps through the curtain.

Edit: To avoid being infracted for replying with a simple yes, I'll clarify my post. I did mean that promo.

 

[Loveless]

This thread is an embarrassment to the IWC. The guy will rightly go down in history as one of the greatest and to place him on a par with Matt Hardy and behind Mick Foley is insulting and shows the most basic lack of knowledge and understanding.

 

[Milkyway!]

That last post didn't really make sense... at all. But, I never denied that Hogan did a ton for the company. I was simply saying how you were being unfair to Shawn Michaels, saying that people like Bruno Samartino and Hulk Hogan, who put on very average matches, are more entertaining in the ring than Shawn. I don't want to get in to drawing ability and all that, because that isn't what defines a professional wrestler to me. Don't try to tell me I'm wrong on that. You're not SlyFox.

Erm. You do realize thats what a professional wrestler is, right? Its a sheerly based on entertainment, ability to draw, etc. Wrestling, is a very small part of wrestling. How many matches were shown on Raw this week. How long did they last. Now compare that to how many promos, and how much time spent talking went on. A hell of a lot more than matches, thats for sure. Professional wrestling IS NOT just about wrestling anymore. You can't deny that. Shawn lacks in 2 keys assets it takes to be a Main Event superstar. One, he lacks promo cutting skills. Two, he lacks the ability to draw. Don't you think a main eventor would have EVERY asset to the game?

 

[dxparza]

Hey pretty young thing, Not quite sure what an infraction is but yeah I got one a while back for simply replying yes to another post, but I wouldnt do that to anybody.

as far as what Loveless said, I couldnt agree more, Milkyway and this thread are embarrassment to the IWC. We should start a Ban Milkyway thread. hahaha

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

How many HBK signs do you see in the crowd at RAW and at PPVs? How about t-shirts? Shawn Michaels sells merchandise is is very, very over with the crowd. He may not have drawn well thirteen years ago, but he was literally one of two stars in the entire company. WCW was simply making WWF their bitch. It was in no way Shawn's fault that they were losing viewers. One superstar does not a show make.

I disagree with you SlyFox.. er, I mean Milk, about what makes a professional wrestler. I don't think you have to draw a certain amount of whatever or sell x amount of t-shirts. Shawn Michaels gives his all in the ring, puts emotion into his promos, and consistently puts on the most spectacular matches on the card.

 

[Milkyway!]

as far as what Loveless said, I couldnt agree more, Milkyway and this thread are embarrassment to the IWC. We should start a Ban Milkyway thread. hahaha

Because of this? I'm begging you. Do it.

How many HBK signs do you see in the crowd at RAW and at PPVs? How about t-shirts? Shawn Michaels sells merchandise is is very, very over with the crowd. He may not have drawn well thirteen years ago, but he was literally one of two stars in the entire company. WCW was simply making WWF their bitch. It was in no way Shawn's fault that they were losing viewers. One superstar does not a show make.

Actually it is their fault. Steve Austin, nailed WcW back into the pit it came from. From the very day he really stepped into stardome. Stone Cold nulls any arguement you can have over "WcW bitchslapping WWE" Honestly, I see more signs of other wrestlers. When was the last time you saw a "Heartbreak Kidd!!!!!!!!!!!!!" sign stretched across the arena, like a Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO is ever so often.

I disagree with you SlyFox.. er, I mean Milk, about what makes a professional wrestler. I don't think you have to draw a certain amount of whatever or sell x amount of t-shirts. Shawn Michaels gives his all in the ring, puts emotion into his promos, and consistently puts on the most spectacular matches on the card

Still an inability to sell merchandise, and draw during his prime and time as a champion, makes him an overall bad professional wrestler. Hulk Hogan set the standards on what a Professional Wrestler is, and what his job is. He took it from just plain old wrestling, to more than that. He made it a money game, and a form of pure entertainment. Today, this standard stands tall, and HBK falls short on the ladder. Very short.

Oh, and please, don't say that again. Its a disgrace to Slyfox's name.

 

[dxparza]

you would love that wouldnt you Milkyway,. anything to keep the attention on you huh??

You just called the greates in ring performer of all time a bad professional wrestler? man did Shawn Michaels run over your dog or something? you sure do hold a grudge..

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

It was the culmination of a fued that went back years. It was a great match, And was voted PWI Match of the Year 2006.



What? Every single one of them was great! Ladder match being the best of the lot, with the unsanctioned match at Unforgiven, Coming a close second.



It will be considered as an all time great in years to come, The psycology of the match was perfect, The pace of the match, The way the match was structured perfectly, The atmosphere was off the chart. It will be looked at in the same light as Hogan/Andre, And Savage/Steamboat.



He plays the same role in both positions.



From Benoit's reign, I remember Triple H vs Shawn Michaels, And Benoit vs Randy Orton.

Whereas as I remember Randy recieving the title, Then later beating Triple H to regain it, Then his two matches against Shawn Michaels, Then Jeff Hardy, And then retaining at Wrestlemania in the triple threat match.



Jericho shocked the world by being savagely beaten by Michaels, Then replacing Punk in the Scamble match, And winning it against all odds.

Benoit had a few matches with Kane which were really good. I didn't agree with the way Orton won at No Mercy 2007. What should have happened was that HHH face Umaga and Orton face somebody like Kennedy and the winner of those two matches would meet in the scheduled Last Man Standing match and the winner would be the champion. What was the point necessarily of HHH beating Orton than losing it to back to Orton. Couldn't HHH have challenged him and Vince would have said that if HHH beat Umaga, then he would have a shot at the title?

I must admit that I never saw Jericho being in that scramble match and winning but damn that Kane for lying around for like 20 seconds after he was pinned by Mysterio. Would have been more of a swerve if HBK would have won instead of Jericho.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

You know when I first read this post I thought to myself ''dxparza, (thats what I call myself lol), damn this kid has no idea what hes talking about, Imma write a well articulated response stating all the reasons why this guy is wrong.'' than i decided ''fuck that!! Imma set this kid straight!'' now what Imma about to write may very well ge me kicked outta wrestlezone forever but oh well.


First off Shawn Michaels is one of if not the greatest wrestlers in the history of wrestling. how dare you say hes overated as hell. he has had more great matches than you an even count. dont make a post about shit you dont know, Shawn Michaels has been westling for over 20 years, hell he stared years before your dads condom broke and the mistake known and MilkyWay was born. or maybe it was the milkman that knocked up your mom and thats why they call you milkyway.. getting back to he topic at hand, you for some reason cant see what shawn has done for the wwe?? for wrestling? for he fans?? he held the wwe up during its darkest days and helped the attitude era get started.. he made it believable for a guy his size to be champion and he put on classic after classic and made guys look like a million bucks. Hogan sucks in the ring but shawn made hogan look great if only for one match, cena has he same boring match over and over but shawn actually made cena have a great match too. Shawn has given 20+ years to the business, broke his back for this business and has gone in day in and day out and performed for the fans giving his all thew hole time, shwan has never had a half ass match of has ever gone less that 100 percent out there. And from my expierence he is a good to his fans. I have been lucky enough to run into him at a restaurant back in 01. I didnt wanna be an annoying fan and ask for an autograph, I simply went up to him and introduced myself and said 'thank you.' he asked for what and i said thank you for the memories, thank you for all youve done in this business. we ended up talkng wrestling for over an hour, and you can tell he love the business and wanted to get back in it. and as far as the whole Montreal screwjob, dont blame shawn, blame mcmahon as a matter a fact blame bret Hart.. all shawn did was do what his boss told him to do. maybe if bret had done the same thing there would be no montreal screwjob. so dont comment on shit you dont know, get your ass off wikipedia and read a fuckin book, youll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesnt think hbk is one of the all time greats. i think you did this post to get the attention and the hate that you knew it would cause its obvious you dont know your shit.

now go do your pre algebra homework and jack of to your John Cena poster and stay the fuck away from your computer! you should have your fuckin fingers chopped off for writting something so stupid.

Can you type a post without ripping somebody as that is really uncalled for. See I'm not going to stoop down to your level and call you baseless names because you are not worth most of the words I am thinking about putting down.

Shawn Michaels has broke his back and all that stuff "for the business." He has also did shady backstage politics and refused to drop the title to people most notably Austin. Hogan, Austin, Rock, Sting, and Undertaker are greater wrestlers than HBK.

Tell me what exactly besides putting on the occasional great match has Shawn did for the WWE. He was in the first HIAC, EC, and Ladder Match. He was the originator, but hardly the innovator. I rather be credited for being the innovator of a type of match than be the originator.

Look what I just did. I replied to your post without calling you one single name. Let's see if you can do the same.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Shelton did have the match of his career but too bad he can't capitalize on that.

And how is that Shawn's fault? Shawn pushed Shelton A LOT in that match, and while Shawn won in the end, I remember that match as Shelton's best. It has nothing to do with Shawn that Shelton couldn't capitalise on that.

To clear up something else, Jeff Hardy beat HBK cleanly in January 2008 before his feud with Orton. Much more credit is given to Orton than to HBK for making Hardy look like a credible main-eventer.

Well done for noticing that *Claps slowly*. I mean, wouldn't the point of a feud be that Hardy gets put over more than in a single match? This argument is pointless, how much more did you expect from Shawn when he had a random match with Hardy? I'd be worried if that put him over more.

Save for his matches with Angle and Cena, he hasn't done anything worthwhile since coming back except for having a meaningless one month title run.

And have great matches with The Undertaker, Jericho, Benjamin, Triple H. As well as a great feud with Jericho? Stealing the stage at WM 25? His match with Undertaker being the biggest draw of that PPV?

I know I will hear that he has won match of the year honors five years in a row, but three of those are a joke (2004, 2006, and 2008). It's probably guaranteed that his match with Undertaker will be match of the year which will be another travesty.

The match would deserve it. The only one of Shawn's MOTY that should have gone elsewhere is Shawn vs. McMahon. All others have been well deserved.

He doesn't give it his all in the ring anymore and I don't want to hear the reason is his age is because he doesn't wrestle that much anyways.

Seriously? He regularly goes out there and gives it his all. Did you see his match with The Undertaker? Let me guess, Undertaker carried that one? It's a bit worrying, to say he puts on matches better than most, and he's a lot older than them.

He doesn't need another title run because he will have to work house shows which he won't do.

He doesn't need another title run and he doesn't want one.

You can say that his feud with Jericho was the best last year but Jericho carried that feud 100% and all HBK did was whine and moan.

This assumption is incredibly annoying. The feud was feud of the year and few argue against that. Now you little Shawn haters should just shut up about it 'all being Jericho', because a feud can't be that good with only one person participating actively. Shawn's ROLE in that feud was to 'whine'. He was just told he had to retire. He's worked you VERY well if you believe it, so fell credit to Shawn.

When it's all said and done, the WWE will make Michaels look like he is one of the all-time greats when in actually, he really isn't.

Actually, he is. And everything he's done is proof of that.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Stealing the stage at WM 25? His match with Undertaker being the biggest draw of that PPV?

If that was the biggest draw of the show can we blame Undertaker & HBK when we find out how badly the show has underperformed?

Seriously? He regularly goes out there and gives it his all.

As somebody who used to be able to get good matches out of large, slower, bumbling wrestlers, you'd have expected his match with JBL to be a lot better. Maybe if he wasn't half arsing it....

Let me guess, Undertaker carried that one?

Yes.

It's a bit worrying, to say he puts on matches better than most, and he's a lot older than them.

He should put on better matches thean most in WWE, he's not green.

He doesn't need another title run and he doesn't want one.

He should have one if he's needed. Like in 2006 when Batista was injured. Not wanting a title run shouldn't mean he doesn't step up if WWE are in a bind.

because a feud can't be that good with only one person participating actively.

You'll find that a lot of feud are.

Shawn's ROLE in that feud was to 'whine'.

Whiner, great role for a face that.

He was just told he had to retire. He's worked you VERY well if you believe it, so fell credit to Shawn.

He then did the exact same facials whilst being in a different situation against JBL. Showing how limited he can be as a talent.

Actually, he is. And everything he's done is proof of that.

I don't know what this quote relates to, probably because you weren't talking to me. But I'm bored and if I'm bored I'll find a HBK post by....Whisper.

I'd also like to add that The Heartbreak Kid gimmick the most awful gimmick for a face EVER. One that doesn't work for the target audience of WWE, but one that attracts females.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Mick foley will give up his body, Ill give you that, but thats about it. and putting him in the top 5 is just wrong on so many levels.. mick foleys promos rival only that of hogan and austin??? Austin is at the top of the list followed by the rock than hbk, followed by a few others than hogan ( try getting through one of these without hearing brother about half a dozen times) than about a dozen or so others than maybe Mik foley, the single greatest most entertaining thing that mick foley has done is the '' this is your life'' for the rock, and the rock really made that good.

Mick Foley is a legitimate Top 5 wrestler. You said that Michaels has broke his back for the business but Foley has done ten times that and more. He put on some of the greatest matches in WWE history with Rock, Undertaker, HHH, Austin, Orton, Edge to name a few. HBK to me is not in the same league as Austin or the Rock in terms of drawing ability and overall impact. Mick Foley can make anybody look great in a match unlike HBK sometimes.

If HBK left right now, nothing would change. WWE will still operate as usual and they won't stop because of him.

 

[HBK-aholic]

If that was the biggest draw of the show can we blame Undertaker & HBK when we find out how badly the show has underperformed?

Sure, if you think WWE wanted that to be the biggest draw. I mean, I'm pretty sure the two title matches were supposed to take that crown. Again, very worrying when people would rather watch Shawn/Taker when both are close to retirement.

As somebody who used to be able to get good matches out of large, slower, bumbling wrestlers, you'd have expected his match with JBL to be a lot better. Maybe if he wasn't half arsing it....

LOL, Shawn put a lot into those matches. It's not his fault JBL is a horrible worker. The matches weren't bad, but weren't great.

He should have one if he's needed. Like in 2006 when Batista was injured. Not wanting a title run shouldn't mean he doesn't step up if WWE are in a bind.

I'm sure he would. However then you'd get the "Shawn is holding people down he shouldn't be champion" types who like bitching about everything.

You'll find that a lot of feud are.

Not really. For a great feud, both have to be into it.

He then did the exact same facials whilst being in a different situation against JBL. Showing how limited he can be as a talent.

Limited? Seriously? So his promos against Jericho are the same as his promos in Montreal, which was the same as his promo against The Undertaker, which is the same as his promos in DX? If you think they're the same you're blind.

I don't know what this quote relates to, probably because you weren't talking to me. But I'm bored and if I'm bored I'll find a HBK post by....Whisper.

I'm honoured.

I'd also like to add that The Heartbreak Kid gimmick the most awful gimmick for a face EVER. One that doesn't work for the target audience of WWE, but one that attracts females.

And he does that VERY well . There's nothing wrong with his gimmick, if it draws females there's nothing wrong with that, he's just expanding the audience of WWE.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

And how is that Shawn's fault? Shawn pushed Shelton A LOT in that match, and while Shawn won in the end, I remember that match as Shelton's best. It has nothing to do with Shawn that Shelton couldn't capitalise on that.



Well done for noticing that *Claps slowly*. I mean, wouldn't the point of a feud be that Hardy gets put over more than in a single match? This argument is pointless, how much more did you expect from Shawn when he had a random match with Hardy? I'd be worried if that put him over more.



And have great matches with The Undertaker, Jericho, Benjamin, Triple H. As well as a great feud with Jericho? Stealing the stage at WM 25? His match with Undertaker being the biggest draw of that PPV?



The match would deserve it. The only one of Shawn's MOTY that should have gone elsewhere is Shawn vs. McMahon. All others have been well deserved.



Seriously? He regularly goes out there and gives it his all. Did you see his match with The Undertaker? Let me guess, Undertaker carried that one? It's a bit worrying, to say he puts on matches better than most, and he's a lot older than them.



He doesn't need another title run and he doesn't want one.



This assumption is incredibly annoying. The feud was feud of the year and few argue against that. Now you little Shawn haters should just shut up about it 'all being Jericho', because a feud can't be that good with only one person participating actively. Shawn's ROLE in that feud was to 'whine'. He was just told he had to retire. He's worked you VERY well if you believe it, so fell credit to Shawn.



Actually, he is. And everything he's done is proof of that.

I fail to see how that Undertaker/HBK match is one of the all-time greats besides on name alone. All I saw was Sweet Chin Music, kick out, Tombstone, kick out, Sweet Chin Music, kick out. I agree with Jake that Undertaker carried most of that match because IMO Undertaker had more offense and picked up the slack for Michael's lack of offense.

I never said that I hated Shawn Michaels. I just think that he is not as great as everybody thinks he is but WWE will tell you that he is.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Mick Foley is a legitimate Top 5 wrestler. You said that Michaels has broke his back for the business but Foley has done ten times that and more.

It's such a stupid argument on both sides. Who cares who's been injured more? It doesn't matter. If it did, Kennedy would be the best in the world.

He put on some of the greatest matches in WWE history with Rock, Undertaker, HHH, Austin, Orton, Edge to name a few. HBK to me is not in the same league as Austin or the Rock in terms of drawing ability and overall impact. Mick Foley can make anybody look great in a match unlike HBK sometimes.

There's having your own opinion, then there's bullshitting away like this. Shawn is KNOWN for being able to have a great match with anyone. In fact I can't think of one horrible match from him.

If HBK left right now, nothing would change. WWE will still operate as usual and they won't stop because of him.

You could say that about anyone. As much as certain fans like to say "___ is carrying the business", it's usually bullshit. No one person has ever carried a company single handedly.