The Force Awakens Spoiler thread

[Барбоса]

The First Order would not be the first hypocritical power to claim a hatred of clones only to be led by one.

Indeed, I would say that Snoke could look like a rushed/failed clone.

As for Palpatine 'surviving', much of the EU goes into the idea of Sith Lords attempting to cheat death through essence transfer. Darth Bane (one of the best characters in all the EU) may have succeeded with his apprentice Darth Zannah, which added an extra dimension to the whole Sith Rule of Two, with the suggestion that Bane somehow lived on through the centuries right down to Sidious. In the Dark Empire, not only is there the Galaxy Gun, there is Palpatine's essence, which has lingered around Endor, being reborn in a clone of himself and then seeking to gain a new body in a son of Han and Leia.

We could easily see Snoke wanting to get to Luke and indeed even his interest in Kylo being about finding himself a suitable vessel to live on in.

As for the Starkiller, I would have liked a bit more clarity on where exactly it destroyed. They mentioned the end of the Republic. Was it meant to be Coruscant?

 

[Lee]

It wasn't coruscant it was Chandrila, the home of Mon Mothma. Apparently the new republic moved there.

 

[Барбоса]

It wasn't coruscant it was Chandrila, the home of Mon Mothma. Apparently the new republic moved there.

Interesting. And I'm glad. Not only is Coruscant somewhat iconic, it had been a bastion of the Empire so for Snoke to destroy it would seem strange.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The First Order would not be the first hypocritical power to claim a hatred of clones only to be led by one.

How about the digested remains of Boba Fett? He could have escaped or been freed from the Zarlac (?), taken over Jabba's vast wealth, and built the First Order in his father's image.

 

[Барбоса]

I think the assumption is that Snoke can use the Force. Boba Fett couldn't.

 

[Shocky]

It wasn't coruscant it was Chandrila, the home of Mon Mothma. Apparently the new republic moved there.

In the movie they say the Hosnian system. Even though the EU is gone, I imagine that the Core Systems aren't entirely friendly to the Republic. From what I've read since the movie, the Republic rotates it's capital, until something can be established, (or Coruscant can be re-established). The First Order has been pushed beyond the Outer Rim, into the Unknown/Wild Regions.

Onto Clones. I'm not a big fan of the clone theory (although I understand Dark Empire is the big reason why this could be). Remember, Boba Fett wasn't a clone of Jango, he was a true Genetic Replica, no tampering at all. The Clone Troopers were tampered with to be reconditioned, easily trainable, and age quicker. Boba Fett turned out just fine, as he grew at a non accelerated rate. If Palpatine created a clone, it has been 30+ years since Endor, so a genetic replica would be a fully functional adult.

I tend to think Snoke is Plagueis, simply because why introduce him in Episode III at all, unless you intend on using him again? If he influence the Force to create life, and Anakin is the byproduct of said manipulation, then it would explain why he is obsessed with the Skywalker lineage. I tend to believe the Darth Bane element of Plagueis. He didn't actually achieve immortality (see Qui-Gon Jinn), but he sees the Skywalkers as his creation, and he will try to transfer his essence into their bloodline. (On a side note, I don't think he created Anakin. I believe he tried to create life, and as a by product/ripple effect of his crime against nature, the Force created Anakin to restore the balance Plagueis destroyed).

From Richard Marquand after RotJ in 1983.

‘If you follow the direction, and project into the final trilogy, you realise that you’re going to meet the supreme intellect, and you think how is it possible to create a man who has such profound cunning that he can not only control Darth Vader, but the fate of Luke Skywalker? Control the destiny of the whole galaxy? You’ll be amazed!’

There's also a quote (I can't find it) from Lucas in 1980. It suggest that the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy would be introduced/survive Episode 3, and sit out the Galactic Civil War.

 

[The Butcher]

Snoke as Plagueis intrigues me most, but they could justify a lot of things. I'm learning more about the EU than I planned to, so that's good. I'd put more stock into it being followed if I knew more about Rey's past and Luke's activities. Seems like they're cribbing ideas from everywhere, which is the smart approach.

I don't trust Lucas' word when it comes to the sequel trilogy. He has contradicted himself so much I'm not even sure to what extent he led the creative direction of the original trilogy. Disney didn't seem to have faith in his ideas for the new movies, and Lucas himself said these movies aren't supposed to exist:

[youtube]9W4Eew8WJoU[/youtube]

Oh, George...

 

[Lee]

Chandrilla is one of the planets in the Hosnian system.

 

[Барбоса]

In the movie they say the Hosnian system. Even though the EU is gone, I imagine that the Core Systems aren't entirely friendly to the Republic. From what I've read since the movie, the Republic rotates it's capital, until something can be established, (or Coruscant can be re-established). The First Order has been pushed beyond the Outer Rim, into the Unknown/Wild Regions.

Yeah, I will need a bit more information to decide what the "capital of the Republic" was in TFA is supposed to be.

It will require a change for it to be Chandrila as it was listed in the Chandrila system.

Onto Clones. I'm not a big fan of the clone theory (although I understand Dark Empire is the big reason why this could be). Remember, Boba Fett wasn't a clone of Jango, he was a true Genetic Replica, no tampering at all. The Clone Troopers were tampered with to be reconditioned, easily trainable, and age quicker. Boba Fett turned out just fine, as he grew at a non accelerated rate. If Palpatine created a clone, it has been 30+ years since Endor, so a genetic replica would be a fully functional adult.

That still makes Boba a clone. He is genetically identical to Jango. He just wasn't conditioned or subjected to accelerated growth.

 

[klunderbunker]

I've read spoilers. I've gone from not caring to being very interested in watching.

Yeah and thanks for spoiling it in Creative.

 

[Lee]

Hosnian Prime is the capital according to the visual guide book released. My planet mention was wrong.

 

[Phoenix]

As for the Starkiller, I would have liked a bit more clarity on where exactly it destroyed. They mentioned the end of the Republic. Was it meant to be Coruscant?

This was my biggest gripe was the movie, the fact they didn't even bother to spend five minutes to learn, understand and connect with the New Republic before they were wiped out. Between the opening crawl and their destruction, that was pretty much the only amount of screen time TNR had, and my thought was "Why should I care?" I know TNR is meant to be a big thing, but they weren't treated as such to make me care of their demise. The political set up should have been established a bit better because the lines were blurred, and before someone mentions to read the books, that's down to lazy writing if you need fans to do homework.

At least with ANH, you could feel the pain Leia had when Alderaan was destroyed; same when Vulcan was destroyed in Star Trek (2009), at least fans had that connection. If it was Coruscant, it would have made sense, but again, five minutes was needed just to set things up.

That aside I loved TFA, it's not a perfect film but Star Wars is back, I'm hyped for Episode VIII and look forward to seeing where this goes.

Has anyone seen the theory about Kylo Ren and why he's with Snoke?

 

[The Butcher]

This was my biggest gripe was the movie, the fact they didn't even bother to spend five minutes to learn, understand and connect with the New Republic before they were wiped out. Between the opening crawl and their destruction, that was pretty much the only amount of screen time TNR had, and my thought was "Why should I care?" I know TNR is meant to be a big thing, but they weren't treated as such to make me care of their demise. The political set up should have been established a bit better because the lines were blurred, and before someone mentions to read the books, that's down to lazy writing if you need fans to do homework.

At least with ANH, you could feel the pain Leia had when Alderaan was destroyed; same when Vulcan was destroyed in Star Trek (2009), at least fans had that connection. If it was Coruscant, it would have made sense, but again, five minutes was needed just to set things up.

That aside I loved TFA, it's not a perfect film but Star Wars is back, I'm hyped for Episode VIII and look forward to seeing where this goes.

Has anyone seen the theory about Kylo Ren and why he's with Snoke?

My takeaway was that the political situation of the Galaxy is unimportant beyond bad guys (New Order) and good guys (the resistance). A Republic would throw off that dichotomy, so it was brought up and tossed aside much like the Senate in Star Wars. They hit the soft reboot button and made the original movie again. I thought Starkiller Base and the destruction of the Hosnian Planets was too similar to the Death Star destroying Alderaan. I agree that a character to connect us to the moment a la Leia would've been more effective, but this time we actually see the people getting obliterated so the attempt to make the viewer feel something was there. Just my two cents.

Now, about this theory of yours...?

 

[nightmare]

Just saw it. Fantastic.

A bit more comedy than usual, but it was on point. Characters (new) were all well done, especially Gleeson's character & I marked out for Solo. Cannot wait for the next one.

 

[Dirk]

Saw it, loved it, but I felt so sorry for poor ol' Chewwie when that thing happened.

It was a bit old (death star, lead character being a pleb from a trash planet, villain being a curly-haired fop, etc), but it has so many possibilities.

 

[nightmare]

Saw it, loved it, but I felt so sorry for poor ol' Chewwie when that thing happened.

It was a bit old (death star, lead character being a pleb from a trash planet, villain being a curly-haired fop, etc), but it has so many possibilities.

When Kylo took off the mask all I could think of is "How did Gene Simmonds' kid get a job in Star Wars?". Since I stayed far away from leaks, spoilers and the like I had never seen his face or knew the actor. Then when he started getting weepy on the bridge with Han, this kept popping in my head...

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I thought Ben genuinely went light side for a minute when that happened.

 

[Dirk]

Since I stayed far away from leaks, spoilers and the like I had never seen his face or knew the actor.

I did the same. It's much easier to do in Africa, but still. It's not like we had threads on here saying "Curly-haired fop is the *NEW* Intercontinental Champion".

Nice gif, too

Also, what was John Mayer doing as Han v2?

I thought Ben genuinely went light side for a minute when that happened.

This was one on the few genuinely original elements of Ep 7. Or at least, it was an original take on temptation from the other side, which we saw with Anakin and Luke (sort of). It reminds us that, apart from the 99.99999% of the brainwashed stormtroopers, remaining on the dark side is a continual, deliberate choice, as with the light side, even if they think it's "too late".

 

[Phoenix]

Now, about this theory of yours...?

Spoiler

The theory is that Kylo Ren is actually working undercover to destroy the dark side. It's an interesting theory, although under a second viewing, I'm not fully sold. But it's worth a read.

http://comicbook.com/2015/12/23/is-kylo-ren-a-double-agent-/

 

[Lee]

I disagree with the double agent theory.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I killed my dad as part of a long con once.

 

[Lee]

It's just fucking stupid.

Ignore the ridiculousness of killing Han and the Padawans there's the scene where he's by himself repenting of having light side thoughts to Darth Vader. He wouldn't do that if it was a con.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

They kinda Boba Fett'd Captain Phasma and brought Poe back when it wasn't necessary. And where did Snoke come from?? Other than that I thought it was a great sequel. I'm really not the biggest Star Wars fan, but I'm genuinely interested in where this Saga goes.

 

[The Butcher]

Spoiler

The theory is that Kylo Ren is actually working undercover to destroy the dark side. It's an interesting theory, although under a second viewing, I'm not fully sold. But it's worth a read.

http://comicbook.com/2015/12/23/is-kylo-ren-a-double-agent-/

I don't like it as it's presented, but the will of the Force could make him a double agent of sorts. If something like that is explained then I'd give this fan theory a partial credit.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I disagree with the double agent theory entirely. You don't use the force mind reading technique if you're light side.