The Failure that is CM Punk

[IrishCanadian25]

Folks, one thing Sly Fox is ABSOLUTELY right about is the fact that WWE's booking had little or nothing to do with CM Punk's issues with the belt. I mean, can you honestly expect the WWE to revolve their entire brand around an unproven champion to begin with? They have to have other feuds and back up plans. And if the Jericho / HBK feud took the heat away from Punk, then guess what. That is more Punk's fault than anyone elses.

So many of you laud Punk as a technical champ. Well, Punk and JBL had a lackluster match at SummerSlam, whereas John Cena and Batista put on a MOTY candidate. And don't give me any "well, JBL didn't work with Punk, he sucks, etc." bullshit, because you all say the same crap about Batista, and you're all still wrong.

I still don't look at Punk's title reign as a failure, but if you're blaming WWE for any shortcomings, then you are nothing but a sad, smarky, CM Punk / IWC apologist, and the last thing he needs is all of you making excuses for him.

 

[joejoe]

Wow,
Here come the Punk haters. Me, I'm not a Punk fan but I'm also not going to sit here and claim his title run was a failure.

Let's see if it was a failure buy rates and ratings would go down. Did that happen? Nope. Actually ratings went slightly up for a few shows.

He had some succcessful title defenses, the live crowd eats him up, he sells loads or merch, he is a good poster boy for what the WWE is trying to promote a clean cut family show.

While the IWC might view him as a failure because they thought he was boring or lame I can assure the WWE didn't view him as a failure. If they did they would have had him lose the belt last night instead of not even being in the match. This sets up a "I never lost the belt" senario for CM Punk.

He was making money for the WWE thus he was not a failure as champion.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Yea I dont see how its such a laborious failure. I think it was exactly what it was supossed to be, meant to give a shock, and be transitional. It did, and it was. You also have to take into account that this was only a back up plan that had to be used once Jeff Hardy's dumb ass failed a test. I think this entire thing was done merely for shock value, and for keeping a little value to MITB. Ratings didnt plummet, which can be attirubuted to strong areas in the rest of the show, true, but I wouldnt call Punk champ a failure, I would just say it was exactly as expected.

 

[rony31]

Definitely not a failure. It's actually odd since stars normally get put into non-title feuds in order to improve both their promos and in-ring work before getting pushed into the title scene, but Punk was given the title and THEN I think he improved over the months. His promos are pretty average but they've had a bit of fire in them lately and I'd say they've improved immensely since he joined from ECW. I like him, it's a shame he dropped the title the way he did but at least it doesn't devalue his talent and if he ever gets back into the title scene, they can use the whole "I never lost the title, blah blah blah" bit. And this feud with Orton should be great, I think (or hope) that Punk's gonna have more of an edge to him now and is gonna be feuding with Orton with a bit of fire in him due to him costing the title, instead of the happy Punk we see walking down to the ring all the time.

 

[Dead Kennedy]

CM Punk...here was a guy who is a living, breathing example of WWE tweaking a character into a mere shadow of his true greatness. Punk is just not good enough to be a World Heavyweight Championship right now, and was rushed into the position. I don't think many other guys but Punk marks truly thought his reign was enjoyable. Or I guess some others could like it, but me, I did not like it from the start.

Punk should not have gotten a world championship until at least 2010. Of all the potential "next generation" stars, he has always been the least impressive guy, and the guy who has needed the most improvement. And he's the guy to receive a championship first? I don't get it. I don't really care much for faces cashing in MITB contracts - it just doesn't work. It doesn't feel like something a face would do, picking the bones of a downed champion. And the way it was booked...it just failed from the start, for me.

CM Punk is by no means a failure, but just a guy who was pushed too fast and needs a hell of a lot of improvement to be pushed at the level he was. Giving him back his true moveset and turning him heel, since he is one of the best heels I have ever seen in my life, would be a great start. CM Punk's gimmick has just always seemed too much "holier-than-thou" to be becoming of a true face for me. But there are just a lot of guys who should have become world champions sooner than him. He can always improve, though. If some changes are made, Punk could eventually become deserving of all the praise he's been given, and a future face of the industry. But that will require work from both Punk himself and WWE.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

Punk lost the title because the Y2J fued came off so well. Im sure Punk knew this and accepted it for the business. Y2J is the WWEs number 1 heel now(Edge has lost that "title" ever since he jobbed to Triple H )

Im looking forward to a Punk/Y2J fued over the title, followed by an orton/Punk fued when Orton gets arse fit again(thats if he doesnt break his collerbone surfing or whatever)

 

[Sicko]

^AGREE! I think Y2J is just hot right now and is the #1 heel on Raw right now hands down, I think many thought the return of JBL would help provide that other Major Heel but JBL has been just OK so far

Y2J Heel turn has been incredible and the HBK fued is one of the best fueds I have seen in a long time

 

[RosiePosieRock-n-Roll]

I wish Punk just had a few more months of being champ...I mean I did not expect him to have a run like Bret Hart or John Cena.
I do indeed like the fued that they are setting up with Rko and Punk.
I think both men are fantastic in the ring and they both can do great promo's!

 

[takerrulez]

honestly he most likely would of had better matches if he would of ben wrestling people his owns size I.E randy orton chris jericho hbk. the reason behinde this is he can actually wrestle these people not knee them in the chest and break there noses in the process.

but yes his title rain was a epic fail because the kept fueding with JBL who i think carried the fued. his promos never really got me wanting to watch his matches i mean throwing JD in JBLs eyes is hardly a promo and do we need any more proof that hes straight edge? it says drug free on his hands

also it is pretty hard to say bookings made him fail because he really didnt take the opertunity and run with it like john cena did i mean john cena turned from white boy wrestling kurt angle and chris jericho. then he started wrestling brock lesner and chris benoit which where awesome fueds he got pushed to the moon because he worked for it
did cm punk work for his push? not really i would of rather seen john morrison win mitb and beat edge for the title at least he tries

 

[Audioslave]

The difference between a Punk and a Lesnar/Cena is that WWE had them in mind as top stars before they even put them into the ring. So that's where they were pushed to and they were pushed there fast.

Punk has been making his reign as best as he could. He had some pretty decent promos (the one with JBL and throwing the drink in his face was pretty good) and he's been getting good reactions. You can't say he's a failure when all he's had so far since the Money In The Bank win are a few throwaway matches, a throwaway feud with JBL and not much else.

This Orton/Priceless versus Punk thing has a lot of potential. If they run with this story and use it to make Punk (and Dibiase, Rhodes, Manu) in it then that will be them giving Punk the ball. I don't think the jury is out on him yet.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

The guys only character development has revolved around trying to become Champ. When he gets in a fued, and cuts promos there's never any passion in his voice, no aggression. He can say all he wants but you have to make people believe it.

Just about everyone has labelled him a fluke in their promos and you could genuinely believe their disgust with him as champ. He never really tried to defend himself verbally, his only comeback was 'I'm not you, i'm CM Punk'.... wow, inspiring stuff.

As for matches, well since becoming champ he's faced the same 3 heavyweights over and over again. He had a good match with Regal when he came back, but that was pretty much all Regal imo.

If he'd had someone that he could work better with like Jericho or Orton maybe more of us would appreciate him better, but as Sly has argued many many times, a good wrestler should be able to make a good match with any opponent as long as they're not abismally terrible (People keep saying that HHH managed to get a decent match out of Khali, and all i can think is that those people must have lower expectations than i do). I personally don't agree, we've seen how a lot of terrible wrestlers have been given pushes and maintain them without getting any better in the ring for years, and if they aren't pushed, they're kept employed for ages when guys far better than them are released. BDV left and came back 3 times and never improved in the ring, but guys like Mohammed Hassan are released when their gimmick is too edgy.

I personally will watch Punk v Jericho and look forward to Punk v Orton, but anything could happen between now and then. He could break his leg in next week's cage match for all we know. Regardless of what they do with him, he himself needs to adjust to the WWE style more. Orton has managed to get better on the mic recently, Punk needs to do the same.

 

[Shocky]

Punk a Failure. I hardly think so. If anyone was expecting htis title reign to be any more then what it was, then they are sadly, sadly mistaken. This belt was used to prop CM Punk from a mid card wrestler, to a legit contender, and it did just that. Punk is now above the IC or US or ECW titles, and he is now a legit threat to the World titles. That's exactly what this title reign was designed to do.

I can name at least a dozen or so other big time wrestlers that had fair to poor runs during their first reign as a heavyweight champion, and their careers ended up just fine. Punk's should be no different whatsoever. Plus, being booked with a doornail as JBL (who has had exactly one good match his entire career <thank you gimmicks>, or Batista <who is more fair then good>) doesn't exactly help his cause along the way.

Punk wasn't in the match, because Punk loses no credibility whatsoever as a fighting champion. He was taken out of the match by four guys, and had no chance to defend his title. If people read into this too much (ala he sucks and the WWE didn't want him in the main event) then they are sadly mistaken. Punk was taken out of this match for storyline purposes only.

Punk is not a failure. A failure would be Rey Mysterio and his magic XPac heat he garners now after winning a crap world title. His title reign was a failure, along with many more. Punks reign as champion didn't kill the ratings either, he was a transitional champion with an average title reign.

 

[Worlds_Greatest_Booker]

i also have to say that it wasn't a complete failure as well as being a transitional champion it seemed as if they were testing him as the world Champion to see if he worked well and to see if the ratings went bad and really it was a success even though he only had only defended it against two people JBL and Batista (which ended in a no contest) but i wouldn't be surprised if he got another title reign again

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Punk a Failure. I hardly think so. If anyone was expecting htis title reign to be any more then what it was, then they are sadly, sadly mistaken. This belt was used to prop CM Punk from a mid card wrestler, to a legit contender, and it did just that. Punk is now above the IC or US or ECW titles, and he is now a legit threat to the World titles. That's exactly what this title reign was designed to do.

Actually, I don't think it has at all. I agree that they attempted using his M.I.T.B. victory and hot-shotted him the title in an attempt to instantly make a Main Event contender from someone who was barely hanging around in the mid-card, but in my opinion it was a big failure.

I mean, let's think about this for a second. John Cena, Batista, Triple H., the Undertaker, Shawn Michaels.. those are all the top guys in the Main Event spots. (or at least the main guys you'd refer to regarding it) Would you say C.M. Punk could willingly hang in the ring with any of them, short of at least being remotely near H.B.K.'s size?

I'd say no. Cena against Punk is a sub-par squash match at best. Batista and Punk had an okay to good match, but even when they played off Batista being 'destroyed' by Kane, he still almost beat Punk and the match ended in being thrown out. Triple H. might not be great through your eyes, but he'd destroy Punk in a wrestling ring because of the difference in how they've been built. And Punk couldn't last longer than 10 minutes in the same ring with the Undertaker.

So when it comes down to it.. they built themselves a Raw midcarder, from an E.C.W. sub-par Main Eventer.. that to a degree IS a success.. but Punk didn't suddenly become a credible contender for either major World Heavyweight title.. outside of possibly being in multi-man matches, such as an Elimination Chamber.

I can name at least a dozen or so other big time wrestlers that had fair to poor runs during their first reign as a heavyweight champion, and their careers ended up just fine.

But that's a dozen others, not Punk. We're talking about C.M. Punk and now.. not any number of others and then. Things change, everyone is different, and time's are different. So you can't compare then, to now.

Punk's should be no different whatsoever. Plus, being booked with a doornail as JBL (who has had exactly one good match his entire career <thank you gimmicks>, or Batista <who is more fair then good>) doesn't exactly help his cause along the way.

That's just it though, if Punk can't MAKE J.B.L. or Batista look good.. then he's a failure as a Main Eventer, because those other two (Batista and J.B.L.) instantly get viewed as top contender's on 'size' alone. Stupid, yes.. but truthful none the less.

Punk has to work harder to be viewed as a top contender, because he's smaller. Punk has to work just as hard as Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart, to gain the Main Event spot because he doesn't have a huge build on his side.

And the alternative was Punk against Cena, which would've devalued Cena as a Main Eventer. Punk against Jericho was the best thing that could've happened, but even then that's a mid-card classic, not a Main Event worthy of headlining.

Punk wasn't in the match, because Punk loses no credibility whatsoever as a fighting champion. He was taken out of the match by four guys, and had no chance to defend his title. If people read into this too much (ala he sucks and the WWE didn't want him in the main event) then they are sadly mistaken.

The simple thing is, WHY?! Why was he taken out? If Punk was a credible contender, even in a losing effort where he didn't need to be pinned to lose the title.. wouldn't it of made Punk look a hell of a lot better if he ("injured" after Orton's kick) would've still tried competing?

I get the title was dropped to Jericho in roughly the same 'hot-shot' manner it was given to Punk, and I get Punk couldn't of been in the same match with Jericho, since one replaced the other.. but how does Punk not lose credibility as a Heavyweight Champion in this?

He got kicked in the head and was still given the chance to at least try to compete. And on the same show where Shawn Michaels had a real injury and tore the house down.. Punk couldn't even attempt trying? Please.. failure at best, and that's giving him credit to call him a failure.

Punk was taken out of this match for storyline purposes only.

This would've been Punk's first actual Main Event p.p.v. match in which he would've defended his title. Yet he was pulled. You can say storyline, and you can tell us not to say it's because he sucks.. in which I won't exactly say he 'sucks' because he's a good athlete.. but I will say this.

An injured Chris Jericho, a brutually beaten and hurt Chris Jericho.. was more capable of getting over in that spot, than a fluke Champion in C.M. Punk.

The fact is this.. J.B.L., Kane, Batista and Rey Mysterio, for better or worse (and that's a horrible line-up to say the least) Punk would've disappeared in that line-up and been overmatched by everyone else in either size, or talent.

So you can say and think all you want.. but I'm pretty sure they didn't feel Punk was capable enough of being in and winning the Main Event, to keep him in it. If he beats Jericho in a Cage on Raw, THEN he might add credibility to himself.. (albeit people could argue Jericho is still injured himself) but overall, going into Unforgiven.. this was his first major opportunity to shine in the Main Event.. and he was pulled.

Punk is not a failure. A failure would be Rey Mysterio and his magic XPac heat he garners now after winning a crap world title. His title reign was a failure, along with many more.

I agree Mysterio's reign was as much a fluke as Punk winning the way he did. Mysterio's reign will forever be masked by Eddie's death. But at the same time, Punk's victory will be forever masked by Edge being out cold basically and then Punk's 2 monthes worth of defeating roughly NO ONE. Mysterio at least defeated Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, J.B.L., and a couple others.

Punks reign as champion didn't kill the ratings either, he was a transitional champion with an average title reign.

Punk wasn't responsible for the rise or lack of ratings. Overall storylines were. End of story on that. And Transitional Champion = failure.

Why? Because someone who isn't a failure, wouldn't be transitional. (Edge's 1st reign = failure. Most watched failure, but still failure)

 

[Darkshot77]

Was it a failure, yes. But I divide it 60% booking 40% Punk. He was booked to fail, but he didnt help his cause any. He is a transitional champ. Had Jericho been Super-Heel sooner, this probibly wouldnt of happend. But this wasnt a total failure, a total failure is someone who is booked to be legit and cant get himself over. So let's compair Punk to a completely failed champ, Rey Mysterio.

Rey has just as bout as much charisma, equal or better wrestling skill and was booked a hellava lot better, but failed none the less. He too was fed JBL but couldnt get over. Mysterio could not convince anyone he was a contender, and never got over with, +12 years old/non-latino fans. At least Punk was getting good pop and was gaining fans. He carried with himself more legitamacy than a 5'6" 165lb luchador. CM Punk had this thing called passion, which he showed in the ring (his promos no, he was smug then). The title did elevate him to ME status. But it was failed, but not completely

 

[Slyfox696]

I remember a few years ago, a guy by the name of John Heidenreich. He came, he went, and the IWC said he sucked.

I submit to you that he didn't suck, but rather was just the victim of bad booking.








OK, now that you are done thinking how ridiculous that sounds, I want you to understand why I consider it so stupid that people blame Punk's abysmal run with the title the fault of booking. It seems to me that NO ONE blames booking for Heidenreich or for Khali or for Luther Reigns, or the whole host of guys that have failed before, but when it's the IWC's beloved former ROH worker CM Punk, suddenly booking is the only reason that he's a failure.

It's ridiculous. I think it was Klunder who said they should have put Punk with someone who he can work with. What the fuck does that mean? He can't work with JBL or Batista? Hell, those are the guys that Punk should be working BEST with. JBL is a master at getting heat and making his opponents get great face pops, and Batista is a great power wrestler while Punk's best attribute is his selling ability.

Then, they give Punk a fairly original WWE storyline, about being a "fluke" champion, and having to go out and prove himself each week, but apparently that's bad booking. They give him a title win of an exciting nature over Edge, but apparently that's bad booking (and for anyone who said he didn't "earn" the win, keep in mind how Edge's first WWE title was won...didn't seem to stop him). He was in the ring with some of the best workers the WWE has, but apparently that's bad booking.

This bad booking stuff has got to go. I don't give a fuck if he did used to work in ROH, the simple fact is A) his booking was actually very good and B) Punk just isn't that good of a worker.

Punk's first run is a failure, and he has no one to blame but himself. Now, does that mean all future reigns will be failures? Not necessarily. Believe it or not, I'm not really that anti-Punk, I just think he's incredibly overrated. But, this reign was certainly bad.

 

[klunderbunker]

How was what he had a storyline? JBL wanted the belt and thought he kept getting robbed out of it, same with Batista. Punk was the cause of some of it, yes. Absolutely he was. But in no way is he the only reason to blame. What I meant about JBL and him getting nothign to work with is people are sick of the sight of JBL. I believe it was Disco who said that once a person cleanly beats another, the storyline should end, plain and simple. What possible reason did JBL have for involving himself with Punk any longer after the first night of Punk's reign? The progression of Punk's matches made little sense, as well as the outcomes of them. He was made to look like a secondary wrestler, yet still managed to begin to win over the crowd. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was the greatest run ever or even that good of one. I think it falls in the middle. It wasn't great, but hardly a failure.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

Meh? CM Punk may have been a failure...so was Jericho's first run and he won both belts from the 2 biggest stars in the WWE(Stone Cold/Rock). Punk's run reminded me alot of Mysterio's, in a way that the champion was made to look weak and inferior to others(Cena/Batista). You can't blame it all on creative, since Punk should have elevated whatever he was given, but they do have blame. With Punk as champ we really didnt see that much of a decrease in ratings if any at all. Also Punk was pushed as the main attraction on Raw it was Batista/Cena, so their in fault too. Maybe Punk wasn't ready, maybe creative went bad, who knows. Now is the time to see how good Punk really is since he has been pushed into the main event scene and lets see if he can stay there(like Orton after a first crappy title run) or be put back down to mid/upper card(Mysterio)/

 

[Slyfox696]

How was what he had a storyline?

Well, when the announcers and Punk keep talking about how he is trying to prove himself, that is called a storyline.

How many other champions can you think of like that? It was fairly unique, in a entertainment medium that has done almost everything.

JBL wanted the belt and thought he kept getting robbed out of it, same with Batista. Punk was the cause of some of it, yes. Absolutely he was. But in no way is he the only reason to blame.

Sure he is. Who else are you going to blame for Punk's bad title run? Well, let's see:

What I meant about JBL and him getting nothign to work with is people are sick of the sight of JBL.

Obviously not, as he still gets great heel heat.

I believe it was Disco who said that once a person cleanly beats another, the storyline should end, plain and simple. What possible reason did JBL have for involving himself with Punk any longer after the first night of Punk's reign?

The World Title? The fact that his loss to Punk was the result of John Cena and Cryme Tyme coming to the ring to battle his security guards, thus distracting him from a match he had well in hand at the time?

Remember, during that match, JBL was in control, until John Cena and Cryme Tyme came down. Punk (as the storyline called for) got the fluke victory, not because he was better than JBL, but because he got a lucky break.

The progression of Punk's matches made little sense, as well as the outcomes of them. He was made to look like a secondary wrestler, yet still managed to begin to win over the crowd.

WHICH IS CALLED GREAT BOOKING!

His whole storyline was about being a fluke champion, but having to prove himself to all the naysayers. The fact that he "managed to begin to win over the crowd" shows that the fans were buying the storyline.

Just imagine what they would have done if Punk didn't suck so badly?

 

[klunderbunker]

Well, when the announcers and Punk keep talking about how he is trying to prove himself, that is called a storyline.

How many other champions can you think of like that? It was fairly unique, in a entertainment medium that has done almost everything.

Sure he is. Who else are you going to blame for Punk's bad title run? Well, let's see:

Obviously not, as he still gets great heel heat.

The World Title? The fact that his loss to Punk was the result of John Cena and Cryme Tyme coming to the ring to battle his security guards, thus distracting him from a match he had well in hand at the time?

Remember, during that match, JBL was in control, until John Cena and Cryme Tyme came down. Punk (as the storyline called for) got the fluke victory, not because he was better than JBL, but because he got a lucky break.

WHICH IS CALLED GREAT BOOKING!

His whole storyline was about being a fluke champion, but having to prove himself to all the naysayers. The fact that he "managed to begin to win over the crowd" shows that the fans were buying the storyline.

Just imagine what they would have done if Punk didn't suck so badly?

Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Arquette (yes publicity stunt I know), Vince, Shane as European champion/hardcore champion.

JBL's heat isn't heel heat. It's X-Pac heat. People are sick of the sight of him, not of his in ring ability or lack thereof.

Yes there was interference in the Raw match, but Summerslam was a clean win. JBL was stll in the main event even then.

How is it great booking when you make the champion look weak by rarely letting him win? That's the company trying to make him look weak but him being good enough to still get over.

 

[Slyfox696]

Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Arquette (yes publicity stunt I know), Vince, Shane as European champion/hardcore champion.

Not even close to the same.

Being an underdog, and being a fluke are two entirely separate things. Those people you mentioned may have been an underdog, but they weren't flukes, trying to prove they deserved their title.

JBL's heat isn't heel heat. It's X-Pac heat. People are sick of the sight of him, not of his in ring ability or lack thereof.

Bullshit. X-Pac heat is such a bullshit term. Anytime someone does a great job, it's automatically considered X-Pac heat.

No, it's called playing a great character, and understand how to get the crowd to boo you. Something that is lost on the majority of new heel wrestlers these days.

Yes there was interference in the Raw match, but Summerslam was a clean win. JBL was stll in the main event even then.

As was Batista, Kane, John Cena/Rey Mysterio. What purpose did any of them have in the match?

The same as JBL. They wanted the title.

How is it great booking when you make the champion look weak by rarely letting him win?

When did he ever lose? How is he looking weak if he never lost a match, outside of the match with Jericho, who is your CURRENT World Champion?

That's ridiculous Klunder, and you know it. He won several matches, two of which you've already pointed out. He never lost any matches, except to the current World Champion.

The "weak" was storyline driven, not in-ring driven.

 

[klunderbunker]

Eddie- Won because of Goldberg, never actually beat the champ.
Rey- Also hardly ever beat anyone as champion.
The rest- Point taken.

No, that's bullshit. JBL has no business being near the main event for a long time. He never wins big matches, yet he's still in the main event. Its like Cena's title reign. People weren't booing Cena because they hated him. They were booing him because they were sick of the sight of him. He goes away for awhile, and now he's back in good graces. JBL was gone for well over a year, and people are still sick of him.

Explain what JBL had done to still belong there.

Beats JBL with help-Makes it look as if he can't win on his own.
He beats Snitsky. Big win there.
Beats Kane by countout, with help from Batista
Gets destroyed by Batista, Kane interferes, next night Kane beats Batista down and punk wins on a dq after JBL interferes
Beats Regal- Another huge win
Pinned by JBL
Clean loss to Jericho
Beats JBL twice, still not sure why he had to do it again
Loses in the Battle Royal, loses the title

Beats two lower midcard guys and an overrated main eventer without help, other than that never can do anything on his own. How in the hell does that make him look like a better champion? His biggest win is over a guy that hasn't won anything in two years. His reign is 10x better if he actually is allowed to win more, even by fluke or a rollup or whatever, just on his own.

 

[Slyfox696]

Eddie- Won because of Goldberg, never actually beat the champ.
Rey- Also hardly ever beat anyone as champion.
The rest- Point taken.

What the hell does that have to do with what we are talking about?

Eddie's storyline wasn't one of a fluke champion, and neither was Rey's. Please follow along with discussion Klunder.

No, that's bullshit. JBL has no business being near the main event for a long time. He never wins big matches, yet he's still in the main event.

What the fuck do you call beating John Cena?

Its like Cena's title reign. People weren't booing Cena because they hated him. They were booing him because they were sick of the sight of him. He goes away for awhile, and now he's back in good graces. JBL was gone for well over a year, and people are still sick of him.

People booed John Cena because they were idiots. And I don't mean they are idiots because they booed John Cena, I mean the reasons they gave for booing John Cena was idiotic.

It's not even close to the same thing.

Explain what JBL had done to still belong there.

Beaten John Cena. What had Kane, Rey, or Batista done to belong there?

Beats JBL with help-Makes it look as if he can't win on his own.

But, still wins...cleanly.

He beats Snitsky. Big win there.

Clean.

Beats Kane by countout, with help from Batista

Another win.

Gets destroyed by Batista, Kane interferes, next night Kane beats Batista down and punk wins on a dq after JBL interferes

So, is Punk ever going to lose a match?

Beats Regal- Another huge win

Not yet.

Pinned by JBL

In a 2-on-1 handicap match after lasting nearly the full 10 minute time limit, in a situation where losing actually HELPED Punk.

Seriously, Klunder.

Clean loss to Jericho

Your current World Champion.

Beats JBL twice, still not sure why he had to do it again

It's called a "feud".

Loses in the Battle Royal, loses the title

Without even being in the match.

Right there you proved my point. Punk was NEVER made to look weak. Ever. He won every match, with the exception of three. One was a 2-on-1 handicap match which actually benefited him to lose, two was a loss to the current World Champion, and three was a match he wasn't even in.

How in the hell does that make him look like a better champion?

Because, he's "proving" to all the doubters that he is a worthy champion. If Punk had had any quality about him, it would have worked wonderfully.

Don't put Punk's failures on a writing staff which gave him great support, and has given him great support since Day 1.

 

[klunderbunker]

No but they were still fluke champions. Neither of them "earned" the title, they just happened to get it.

In one match with a gimmick after losing to him twice in a row, then losing to Punk already, and losing to him two more times.

Oh so you know why people booed and are allowed to determine what's a good reason and a bad reason?

Batista-Never got a fair shot at the belt.
Rey-In to get after Kane.
Kane-Never cleanly beaten by Punk either.

You said earlier that JBL had every right to want a rematch for Punk winning with help. If he has help, that's not clean.

He lost to Batista at GAB, then the next night beats him because someone else runs in to take out Batista.

Yes Jericho is the current champion, but so what? At the time he wasn't. That's like saying Akeen beat Shawn Michaels and making it sounds like it meant something. Jericho was a big name, but he wasn't the champion and wasn't even in the title match at the time. Logic behind this booking is......?

He's proving that he's worthy by hardly ever being able to win on his own? How does that make him look strong? And what great support?

 

[Slyfox696]

No but they were still fluke champions. Neither of them "earned" the title, they just happened to get it.

But, being a fluke wasn't their storyline. Which was my point all along.

In one match with a gimmick after losing to him twice in a row, then losing to Punk already, and losing to him two more times.

Who else deserved it?

Oh so you know why people booed and are allowed to determine what's a good reason and a bad reason?

Yes, I know why people booed, have you not read the official Cena thread?

And, yes, I can tell a good reason from a bad reason. When people say they boo him because he only has five moves, or because he's a white rapper (2 years after that gimmick was gone), those are bad reasons.

But, let's not talk about Cena. Just understand that Cena's situation and JBL's situation are completely different.

Batista-Never got a fair shot at the belt.

What had he done, before Summerslam, to get one?

Rey-In to get after Kane.

Oh, so being away for a year and not liking someone is why we get title shots now?

And, that's better than JBL getting a show how?

Kane-Never cleanly beaten by Punk either.

So? Why did he even have his first match with Punk?

You said earlier that JBL had every right to want a rematch for Punk winning with help. If he has help, that's not clean.

No, I never said Punk had help, I said that JBL got distracted, and that cost him the match.

Major difference.

He lost to Batista at GAB, then the next night beats him because someone else runs in to take out Batista.

You need to start using quotes, because it's hard as hell to know what you're talking about.

And, Punk didn't lose to Batista, it was a double DQ.

Yes Jericho is the current champion, but so what? At the time he wasn't.

Oh, I see. So when the Green Bay Packers got beat by the New York Giants in the NFC Conference Finals, it meant nothing, because the Giants were not Superbowl Champs at the time?

Jericho was a big name, but he wasn't the champion and wasn't even in the title match at the time. Logic behind this booking is......?

WHAT?

You don't understand the logic to this? Do you think the WWE just up and decided 10 minutes before Unforgiven that they were going to replace Punk with Jericho?

He's proving that he's worthy by hardly ever being able to win on his own? How does that make him look strong? And what great support?

No, he's proving that despite what everyone says, he's still champion. And, the stuff that causes him to not win on his own is NOT HIS FAULT. It's not like he's having people help him win, it's situations that were completely out of his control.

Which keeps the storyline about him having to prove himself going. I don't understand how you can say something is bad booking, when you don't even understand the booking that is happening. How can you criticize something you apparently don't even understand?