RVD: Success or Failure as Champion?

[klunderbunker]

Simple question: has RVD been a success or a failure as TNA World Champion? He's the champion. He's the centerpiece. He's the guy that represents TNA. He popped up on TV tonight and I forgot he was the champion by the end of the show. He was on for all of 2 minutes and then barely mentioned again for the whole show. Is he a success? I don't particularly think so. He's not at all intimidating, nor does he seem dominant. RVD comes off as a guy that doesn't win world title matches but rather survives them. That's how a heel should be played, not a clear face. RVD is on TV about as much as the Dudley Boys at this point. To men, this isn't working. His matches aren't as good as they're built up to be (he's 39 so it's probably old age to an extent.) and he's not a central piece of the show in the slightest.

So what do you think? Based on any criteria, would you consider him a success or a failure? Also, why do you think that? Is it him? The booking? The opponents?

I'd say failure but more about the booking than the wrestler. When he's on TV for all of two minutes and gets his ass handed to him, it's a bit hard to take him seriously as a world champion. He's fine for the PPV matches, but you have to give him more than just a minute or so a week to keep his credibility.

Your thoughts?

 

[Goliath Uterus]

I agree that his time as champion has been a failure. But I don't neccasarily think that it's his fault, rather I'd say its poor booking that has made his title run so lackluster. Like you said, it's hard to take a guy seriously who shows up for 2 minutes, proceeds to get the shit kicked outta him, then doesnt show up for the rest of the show, thats not the way to book your champion.

He needs to be on TV more often, cut more promos, kick the shit outta someone who beat the shit outta him, ya know? Be seen as more of a fighting champion than the guy who's always getting his ass handed to him on national television. Last week, I too forgot RVD was champ, AJ came out and I was like "Why the hell isn't he wearing the title belt?" So to sum it all up, yes, I think his reign as champion (so far) has been a failure.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Channeling your inner IDR! Klunker?

As much as it pains me to say Rob has been more on the fail side then anything, not that it's all his fault, but that's where I stand on this one. Ever since he won the title he hasn't been doing much compared to others. I hardly remember seeing him on TV the past few weeks and he is their World Champion. I had really high hopes for this RVD run, with the beginning of it being so great. The night he won the championship was the highlight of the entire run, and truthfully it's the only thing I can really remember of the whole thing.

 

[The Other Hardy Brother]

He hasn't even been champion for three months yet so it's hard to say whether or not he has a been a failure or success as champion yet. As of this point I'd say he has done a decent job. In fact I don't think he has lost a match since joining TNA. That's a pretty credible World Champion if you ask me. So I'd say success even though there isn't much to go off yet.

 

[MB1025]

I think he has been good. I don't remember RVD ever really beating up people who have attacked him. He has always been over and a laid back cool guy. That doesn't scream out to me some one who would go around beating people up. Plus he is a face. They usually don't do the chasing. TNA has set them up and he has knocked them down. Just like he has been saying. With how over Anderson is right now I wouldn't be surprised if they out the strap on him, but if RVD keeps it I think he could have some great matches still.

 

[ABMorales787]

Failure? No. Declining? Yes. And fast too. It was the same as his first run in WWE. He was great at first, but after it, it had you wondering "what now"? It ended abruptly in WWE and I think we are seeing how it probably would've gone if he hadn't lost it back then. It was great here at first because it came in such a unique fashion, but there isn't much to do with the run. Yes, he is very charismatic, but he cannot carry a storyline that involves emotion. You just can't buy the guy being mad. Sting beats the shit out of him and the next time we see him, he's as jolly as a roger. Like nothing happened and sounding like a good sportsman. Meanwhile Sting has to come up with stuff like "Deception" in order to keep the feud interesting. Albeit driving the focus away from the champion, but still needing a distraction. RVD would work best with short runs as champion. Similar to how Jeff Hardy and CM Punk worked last year.

 

[zackattack]

TNA needs to start using RVD more. Whe was the last time he actually wrestled on Impact. I'm probably wrong but the last time I remember watching him wrestle on Impact is when he was in that 4 way. It is not his fault at all because he is not part of the booking but if hes your champ u need to have him on the show more than once. What rlly sux here is that this is RVDs first real world title run. He had his WWE/ECW title run in WWE for like 3 weeks before the pot issue happened and he dropped both titles and he never got a world title again which sucked cuz I liked RVD as a world champ and I was stoked when he finally got it in TNA but its just not working and TNA needs to do sumtin fast or ppl are not gonna care.

 

[mister_b1LL]

Unfortunately, RVD's reign as Champion is really deteriorating fast. His reign has been really just, well, boring. We have been hoping for some really awesome matches against the best that TNA had to offer, but a couple matches with Sting and AJ are just not good enough. RVD hasn't had that match in TNA that would blow the roof off the Impact Zone yet. I'm hoping either Jeff Hardy or Mr. Anderson get title shots against RVD while he still has the title. If it's Hardy, you got two of the best high flyers going at it. If it's Anderson, it'll be interesting how the two ring psychologies will work together.

 

[a0161613]

I think RVD is best when he has a feud to get his teeth into and until this happens, he will seem to me like a placeholder champ. I've said all along that the title switch from AJ happened too early and I think KB has pointed out the problem with this.

TNA has continued their typical problem and forgotten about him. And that is unforgiveable for your champ. At least they have been consistent with this while RVD has been there.

 

[blair4107]

It may not be the most exciting title reign ever but the crowd still erupts every time they hear his theme music start. Then again I don't remember his ECW/WWE simultaneous title reign being THAT exciting; more just people being excited that RVD got the shot.

Could a heel turn be in the making for RVD? As far as I know he's never really been the bad guy (though they kinda tried with the Invasion angle). I would generally say no but then again I never thought I'd see a real heel run out of Sting (not counting MEM since he was always the tweener).

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

As much as I love RVD, I think he reign so far has been a failure. It just doesnt seem anything special or memorable and he has been so poorly used on the show its disgraceful. I mean, why give the guy the belt if you arent even featuring him on the show FFS?

TNA need to sort this out quick, before its another big star they will have wasted, RVD has still got it, he just needs the right storyline, the right feud and some god damm TV time! I DO NOT want to see Jeff Jarrett or Abyss on iMPACT, i want to see RVD nailing somebody with the Van Daminator!

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Simple question: has RVD been a success or a failure as TNA World Champion? He's the champion. He's the centerpiece. He's the guy that represents TNA. He popped up on TV tonight and I forgot he was the champion by the end of the show. He was on for all of 2 minutes and then barely mentioned again for the whole show. Is he a success? I don't particularly think so.

Just because you forot he was the Heavyweight Champion doesn't mean he isn't credible, or successful. It just means you "forgot" who the current Champion was. I view successful differently than you, apparently. He's drawing people to shows. He's putting butts in seats. That, to me, is successful.

He's not at all intimidating, nor does he seem dominant. RVD comes off as a guy that doesn't win world title matches but rather survives them. That's how a heel should be played, not a clear face.

No, but that is every bit of what an Underdog character does. And thats who Rob Van Dam is. He isn't 300 lbs. He isn't a Super Heavyweight, or even any type of Heavyweight to be exact. He's of the same mold a guy like Shawn Michaels, A.J. Styles, or even to some extent Rey Mysterio would be.

He's smaller than most of his opponents. He's quicker than most of his opponents. He's not as strong, yet more agile. Every bit of that means to me he can't fight then head-to-head, he has to strike and move. And thus, if he gets caught, he'll get his ass handed to him most of the time.

Yet he has resiliency, which is what keeps him in matches. Aka - classic Underdog character.

RVD is on TV about as much as the Dudley Boys at this point. To men, this isn't working.

Times have changed and thats about the only way you could come back on what I'm about to say.

Back in the 90's, sometimes the Heavyweight Champion (you know, when there was only 1 per Company) wouldn't even be ON their weekly television shows. And then other times (Hogan), would be there, but in a non-wrestling role.

Chalk up this as TNA trying to make you want to see their Heavyweight Champion more. Build up the desire.

His matches aren't as good as they're built up to be (he's 39 so it's probably old age to an extent.)

I disagree with this more than anything. RVD has always had the same exact type of match. Hell, in a similar way to Bret Hart you could almost call 90% of RVD matches because his moves even come in the same manner.

That doesn't mean they aren't good. It just means some people who aren't huge fans, will get tired of it quickly. (Cena, for example, is the main person who does the same exact thing in almost every match. So, if an RVD match is boring and old - Cena is no better)

and he's not a central piece of the show in the slightest.

Thats actually more them feeling they have strength in roster, than anything else.

WWE wants to surround its Company by making their Champions the centerpiece. (ironic, considering they have more than 1, don't'cha think?) TNA on the other hand has about 2-4 storylines going with Main Event talent, and main levels storylines that helps them to not have to focus entirely on one person.

So what do you think? Based on any criteria, would you consider him a success or a failure? Also, why do you think that? Is it him? The booking? The opponents?

I think, in my opinion, what makes Rob Van Dam perfect to be their Champion at the moment is status of name.

Van Dam was the most looked-for Free Agent on the market. When he signed, they hit gold because he has the ability to work with anyone. Like an A.J. Styles, he can sparkle and shine in every match he has. Be it against guys his size, or those much larger than he.

Van Dam is a great Champion because people want to see him. Styles flopped as Champion because even though he's by all means the "face" of TNA, he's never going to be the huge name they need him to be, like a Hogan, like an Angle, or like an RVD or Jeff Hardy - because Styles wasn't known to anyone else except for through TNA.

I'd say failure but more about the booking than the wrestler. When he's on TV for all of two minutes and gets his ass handed to him, it's a bit hard to take him seriously as a world champion.

Again, some Champions aren't even ON their respective shows all the time. It happens.

As for the booking, when he's in a match, its always against someone the people want to see him wrestle. Which means regardless, they want to see him. That, to me, means he's successful - not a failure.

He's fine for the PPV matches, but you have to give him more than just a minute or so a week to keep his credibility.

Your thoughts?

Last time I checked, selling Pay per views was more important than pushing talent every week on weekly shows. Build up the hype, make the people pay to see him. Give them a little (which is what they do) and then give them a lot, when they pay for it.

No wonder your OVW went under.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Neither, KB, to be honest.

He hasn't really failed because he's still moderately relevant, but he hasn't really succeeded either, because he's being heavily overshadowed by guys like AJ Styles and even Abyss.

I brought up the question about whether RVD was the "right" choice for TNA champion a few weeks ago, and my points from that thread still stand as far as I'm concerned.

The bottom line here is that RVD has no personality, and in having no personality, it's difficult for him to remain interesting for long periods of time – the same goes for Jeff Hardy, as far as I'm concerned.

Prior to the concession of defeat and the return of iMPACT! to Thursday nights, believe me, I fully understood the rationale behind putting the strap on RVD over AJ Styles, as as great of a performer as Styles is, the iconic value of RVD was in fact more marketable at the time, but since the concession of defeat and the return of iMPACT! to Thursday nights, does that value retain it's continuity and sale? Personally, I don't really think so.

Let's face it – TNA is uncontested on Thursday nights, so it's not as though they need to be pulling out any more rabbits from the proverbial hat here. Solid booking and story lines would in fact sell the show IMO as a viable alternative were either to happen, so why is RVD truly the best option for TNA WHC still? While I appreciated (note the emphasis on past-tense) the efforts of management to capitalize on the notoriety of such a big name in the industry, the failure of the company as a whole was still prominent, and by no means IMO should the blame be absolved from RVD's feet any more than it is/was any number of the other top performers in the company. While poor booking and writing were undoubtedly the primary causes for the death of the Monday Night Wars II, IMO the idea that a number of characters were being booked as they were – including RVD as a top babyface and AJ Styles as the top heel were just too drastic and unbelievable to allow for the idea of either to really take root.

Call me crazy, but I was always led to believe that simplicity equates success, and simplistically speaking, heel champions bring the most out of the face performers in any wrestling company, which is exactly why heels tend to hold onto title belts for longer durations than faces. Factor in the fact that most of the company's top-tier talent are faces or face-tweeners right now (Anderson, Hardy, Pope, RVD, Abyss, Hernandez, etc.), and IMO the need for a heel champion really manifests as not just suggestion anymore, but more along the lines of necessity.

Here's the original thread, for anyone who was curious: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=114368

 

[justice]

RVD is a definate success as champion. Dude is bad ass, exciting to watch, and the fans love him, and he's very deserving of the title. Out of the three champions from the two big companies, Rey, Cena and RVD, I think RVD is the best one. THE BIG PROBLEM IS....is that TNA can't write storylines or book their champion in a proper way, so RVD is the one that comes off looking bad.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

I think we will be able to make a final decision about this question after his reign is over...i think he is a good champion..just like he was ECW & WWE champion...he can draw definitely...I think what the reign is missing is better feuds...with the roster the way it is and the young ones coming through...they can give us great feuds, but instead they playing off a ranking system..it means they are not really feuding....its like picking a name out of the bag and telling RVD that this man is your challenger, and THEN they start a feud from nothing...which i think isn't very good...

 

[the wrestling guru]

I like rvd but I have to lean toward fail. They have some young great talent who could pick the ball up and run with it and put tna in the main stream more so than what it is

 

[Kenny Powers]

I don't think RVD is a failure as champion just yet, but his character is very laid back so its easy to overlook him. He has had some good matches, but they are pretty much the same matches we are used to seeing him perform in the WWE. The same formula without any real changes. I notice that in Jeff Hardy too.

I just think RVD needs some competitors that will give him a run for his money. They put Sting against RVD who is over as a heel, but he was just the wrong person in my opinion to challenge RVD for a title shot. TNA is too face heavy at the moment. The faces primarily win all the battles in TNA except for maybe the Knockouts and the X division. If there isn't any strong heels in the main event to care about, then people start to lose interest in the champion.

I still think it was a good decision to put RVD as champion, but it takes two to tango. RVD needs some real competition to be seen as a true success.

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

I don't watch TNA as often as I watch WWE or as often as I should (So I'm told), but from what I've heard and the small pieces of what I've seen, RVD is a success as the TNA Champion.

Apparently, he performs well in every match - which does sound like Rob - he's put up against anybody and everybody and always puts on a great performance and comes out victorious.

RVD, is a success. He always has been.

 

[Capsaicin]

He hasn't even been champion for three months yet so it's hard to say whether or not he has a been a failure or success as champion yet. As of this point I'd say he has done a decent job. In fact I don't think he has lost a match since joining TNA. That's a pretty credible World Champion if you ask me. So I'd say success even though there isn't much to go off yet.

He actually lost against AJ.

 

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

I'm somewhere in-between right now. I will say that his carry over feud with Sting was very well done and up until the conclusion I would have gave him a resounding yes as a successful champion, but he is on a slippery slope of not being featured enough.

While I agree with what Will said about the champion not being featured on every show, there is definitely a minimum that he should be mentioned more often to remain relevant (by champion standards) and TNA is getting close to failing the minimum.

They aren't there just yet, so I can't in good conscience say RVD has failed a a champion just yet. He still attracts viewers and can make people want to see him.

 

[gd]

I'd say failure but more about the booking than the wrestler.

This. RVD's title reign started out great with the surprise win on Impact. A truly awesome moment. However, it's all been downhill from there. He hasn't had an especially great match as champion, as the rematch with AJ was decent at best. He's had nothing more than a few promos that I can remember. Much of his last feud was much more about Sting than RVD or the championship.


I fully expect RVD to lose come next Sunday. It isn't all his fault though. He's hardly been to centerpiece of the show, hasn't been given the best of opponents/storylines, and just really hasn't been booked as a champion. Maybe it's partly his fault as he could've stood out more/been more charismatic, etc. Anyway you want to put it, this isn't a World Champ we're going to remember.

 

[goodlay]

Yeah, I would say it's getting close to failure if he keeps getting booked this way. It's definitely not RVD though, because he can still go in the ring at a really high level. He's been booked really poorly throughout his run, like stated throughout the thread. I mean this week we had RVD not on the show at all except as a special guest referee? Not really a strong showing for your world champion.

It's starting to go into failure sooner than later, so we'll have to see what happens at Victory Road. I wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Abyss win it.

 

[CM Pulsar]

No way has RVD been a failure. He is by far the most over wrestler in the company. His theme song kicks in and people flip out. His whole gimmick is being a laid back stoner, so he isn't going to be as aggressive on the stick as some of the other top contenders.

TNA is in the shape its in because of bad booking. Nothing more.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this. I've been going over the question a lot since it was first posted and I still haven't really come to any solid stance.

I don't know if I'd call RVD's run as TNA World Heavyweight Champion a failure, but I do believe that my interest in him as champion dwindles with each passing week. I believe that it's been a problem that lies more on the creative side than on RVD himself as there's just not really been anything all that memorable going on during his reign for me.

When his reign first began, there was a lot of energy and excitement about it. Internet fans especially have a huge amount of love for RVD and I think that many of them were looking forward to some epic matches and some classic feuds. However, I don't think either of these have come to pass during RVD's run. Sure, he's done what creative has handed him and all that, but there's not been anything all that worthwhile. I mean, I know he's got the title and is the champion but that's really about it.

Since coming to TNA, especially since being champ, RVD hasn't really had anything I'd consider to be a consistent feud and I think that the TNA Ranking System has a lot to do with that. There's a new #1 contender each month basically, which means that RVD winds up having perhaps two matches at the very most within the span of 4 weeks and then he moves onto someone else. It's just not really enough time to build up a feud and be able to sink your teeth into it. I'd rather have a feud go on for too long than for it to not go on long enough.

I've read complaints that RVD hasn't seemed like a dominant champion. Well, personally, I have to say that being a dominant champion isn't really as important to me as whether or not the champion has become more interesting during his run. In the WWE, Jack Swagger wasn't really this ultra dominant World Heavyweight Champion, but I do believe that he became a more interesting character overall during his run than he was prior to it. Promo work has never really been RVD's strong suit and I can't really remember the last time I heard him cut a promo really. Nothing that RVD's been involved in has really made me care all that much about what he's doing or what he's going to be doing next. I've seen him wrestle some mostly ok matches, usually nothing very memorable, and that's really about it.

Has RVD succeeded or failed as champion? I dunno. I'm leaning more toward failure right now though.

 

[Dogfingers]

Once again, failure due to booking. Despite everyone loving it I think it was a stupid decision to take the title of AJ and put it on Van Dam on an unadvertised match. Where's the build? The chase? The suspense? Van Dam is now meandering with the title in no mans land.

He keeps telling us that he's got the ball and is gonna boost ratings. So far he's done fuck all.