The Failure that is CM Punk

[Slyfox696]

Let's face it. The guy is a failure. The WWE gave him a World title in exciting fashion, and he dropped the ball. The WWE gave him a very interesting story, and he dropped the ball. His promos were lackluster, and his matches were cookie-cutter and boring.

Now, of course, all the Punk fans are going to jump in and blame the WWE for his booking and what all, but it's a load of crap and everyone knows it. A good worker can take bad booking and run with it. See John Cena as proof of that, and the way he took poor booking and turned himself into a goldmine, not once but twice. So, don't give me this bad booking nonsense.

Let's face it IWC. Punk was a failure. He wasn't ready for the main-event in any capacity. He wasn't a legitimate champion, and wasn't an entertaining champion. He did nothing of value, and nothing of note.

His title reign was a failure. The question is, will he be able to bounce back from it, a la Randy Orton, or will he fall to the wayside like Rob Van Dam? I want to read your thoughts.

 

[Mexican Geek]

first of all, I want to know the REAL reason of why Punk was pulled out of the match. I have my own theory that is an injury (I mean, a substance violation on him would mean the end of his job IMO) but who knows.

Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed on Punk. I had high hopes on his reign, but as you said Sly, he just couldn't deal very well with the HORRIBLE booking. I just hope that this is not a fucking ratings stunt and Punk regains the title tomorrow on RAW. Now that would be lame.

I have to see a Ratings report or something, but overall, I don't think Punk's reign was a complete failure. Sure, the booking didn't help him, but the guy always put everything he has in the ring. Too bad he is not that good in the mic.

 

[klunderbunker]

Let's face it. WWE treated this guy like crap. It is rare that a champion can be buried while holding the belt, but he managed to pull it off. To me, the major flaw was that he was given the wrong opponent. The entire time that Punk was champion, JBL would interrupt him demanding a title shot. No one, not Cena, not Batista, not anyone can make JBL look credible. Even after Punk cleanly defeated him at Summerslam, JBL continued to be around. As champion, Punk won three televised matches clean: Snitsky, Regal, and JBL. What possible way is that to make a champion seem credible? It makes him look weak, and that's not Punk's fault. If he never wins, why should he be considered a good champion?

As for what's next, I have high hopes for it. Him not being in the scramble seems to be the best way out. Anyone that beat him would cause Punk to be seen as weak as everyone has beaten him already. Punk not being beaten for the title makes him have a right to challenge for the belt in the future. I'm not for the heel turn that everyone screams for. He could get over as a face if he is booked the right way.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Let's face it. The guy is a failure. The WWE gave him a World title in exciting fashion, and he dropped the ball. The WWE gave him a very interesting story, and he dropped the ball. His promos were lackluster, and his matches were cookie-cutter and boring.

I was kind of starting to like him. But you were right, except for the promo where he threw the Jack in JBL's face, I just didn't care. He was getting better in the ring.

Now, of course, all the Punk fans are going to jump in and blame the WWE for his booking and what all, but it's a load of crap and everyone knows it. A good worker can take bad booking and run with it. See John Cena as proof of that, and the way he took poor booking and turned himself into a goldmine, not once but twice. So, don't give me this bad booking nonsense.

But he was ROH champ, so he's automatically bad ass. But seriously, in the end, you are responsible for getting yourself over. In a time where wrestlers are more "real", Taker and his magical powers are still over. Even Hogan had to change gimmicks to get over in current wrestling. He was getting stale before the nWo, but Taker is still Taker, and he is over because he is awesome. Punk just hasn't sold anyone on his ability to lead a company.

Let's face it IWC. Punk was a failure. He wasn't ready for the main-event in any capacity. He wasn't a legitimate champion, and wasn't an entertaining champion. He did nothing of value, and nothing of note.

Very forgettable reign. He got his chance, and will probably stick around at the top for a while, but TNA better open up a spot. I guess that
s the problem when a guy gets introduced to the top by a fluke. When Edge won cashed in his Money in the Bank, he was already a star. Punk's title reign started as a fluke, and was so bad that creative decided to take the belt off of him without his even being there. That should say something.

His title reign was a failure. The question is, will he be able to bounce back from it, a la Randy Orton, or will he fall to the wayside like Rob Van Dam? I want to read your thoughts.

To answer your question, in less than a year, the IWC will bitch about how not even AJ Styles can carry him to a good match.

 

[Slyfox696]

Let's face it. WWE treated this guy like crap. It is rare that a champion can be buried while holding the belt, but he managed to pull it off. To me, the major flaw was that he was given the wrong opponent. The entire time that Punk was champion, JBL would interrupt him demanding a title shot. No one, not Cena, not Batista, not anyone can make JBL look credible. Even after Punk cleanly defeated him at Summerslam, JBL continued to be around. As champion, Punk won three televised matches clean: Snitsky, Regal, and JBL. What possible way is that to make a champion seem credible? It makes him look weak, and that's not Punk's fault. If he never wins, why should he be considered a good champion?

Blah, blah, blah.

This nonsense that the WWE treated Punk bad is bullshit. They gave him PLENTY of mic time, and gave him several months to do something with the title. But, he completely blew monkey chunks on the mic, and his matches were completely piss bucket.

As far as no one making JBL look credible? Completely fictitious statement, as Cena had just done it a month or so before.

The WWE has given Punk the royal treatment since Day 1. He debuted in front of a crowd that they knew would treat him like a King, he was given a many month undefeated streak, he tagged with arguably the biggest stable in wrestling history, he won a World title in about a year, and won a second World title in less than 2 years on TV. It was an incredibly exciting win over Edge that had ALL wrestling fans talking, and was done the first Raw after the Draft and after the PPV, which means that plenty of fans would watch. Then, they give him a rather unique and interesting storyline about proving himself.

What more can the WWE do for the guy? Fire everyone else in the company, so he's the best guy in the company by default? Seriously, this nonsense that the WWE has treated Punk badly is some of the most ridiculous excuses I have ever seen for one man's inability to get over.

It's like Triple H has said for years. It's not the writers job to get you over, it's your job to get you over. And Punk failed. Miserably.

And thus, his title reign was a miserable failure.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yes they did give him mic time. And who else was involved in nearly every one of his promos? The worst main eventer in WWE today. His matches are far from bad. He's never going to be the best in the ring but to call him horrible is just bias. He was improving on the mic every week, especially when he didn't have to deal with the same people every weak. No, Cena didn't make him look good. He beat Cena in a horrible hardcore match in a garage and then the arena.

What more can WWE do for the guy? Give him a real feud with someone that he can work with. Orton, Jericho, Cena. Any of them would work fine. Any legit main eventer that could actually put on a decent match and actually gets more of a reaction than the fans nearly falling asleep. Punk was getting there. Look at what he had been doing before he was champion. He had beaten no one in the months leading up to the title reign. It would be like a jobber winning the belt. He was given just enough time to build up some credibility, but was he allowed to? No. He lost nearly every time he was in the ring. How is that a proper way to book a champion? No one could get over well with the crowd if they hardly ever win.

 

[Idolized]

Punk was far from a failure, it was the way he was booked. And no, I'm not some "Punk Fanboy" so before you go calling me that, just hear me out. Punk was booked a lot like Rey Mysterio was during his World Title Rey, as well as the way that Benoit was. They weren't focal champions of the show, and weren't given interesting storylines either. What interesting storyline did Punk have? Huh? Jobbing to people in non-title matches and winning at the PPV in underdog fashion doesn't really peak my interest. Punk had been booked AROUND the main storyline of RAW being that there the inmates running the asylum or whatever. Failure? I don't think so. The title reign did a lot as far as establishing Punk and served the only purpose that I think it had to begin with, that being to bring the World Heavyweight Championship back to Raw. I know that this isn't the last time he'll have a belt.

 

[Moon Knight]

Let's face it. The guy is a failure. The WWE gave him a World title in exciting fashion, and he dropped the ball. The WWE gave him a very interesting story, and he dropped the ball. His promos were lackluster, and his matches were cookie-cutter and boring.

I will agree his promos were lackluster; he had all the charisma of mayonnaise. The problem was at times he didn’t put much passion into what he was saying along with his voice being robotic. A storyline is only as good as the wrestler makes it, what would you classify as a good storyline? The storyline he had with JBL was flat and provided nothing of interest at all, in fact I got a case of déjà vu watching it, maybe it was his fault for not doing anything with it or maybe it was the bookers fault for not giving him anything to work with. I won’t disagree with you on Punk's matches though, because the WWE style requires that he tell a story and his matches were just plain and didn’t get people involved, complete pissbucket.

Now, of course, all the Punk fans are going to jump in and blame the WWE for his booking and what all, but it's a load of crap and everyone knows it. A good worker can take bad booking and run with it. See John Cena as proof of that, and the way he took poor booking and turned himself into a goldmine, not once but twice. So, don't give me this bad booking nonsense.

Cena wasn’t booked all that bad on SD, in fact he had some ok feuds with JBL and cut a good rap promo on Taker, it wasn’t until he got on RAW did they turn him face and make him bland. This was proved by people turning on him, but that was more to him being over pushed. Now, the difference between Cena and Punk is Cena had the charisma to make things seem better than they were and force people into giving him a reaction if they wanted to or not, he knew how to use his gimmick and charisma to get younger people to like him while Punk was pushed behind Jericho/HBK and lacked the charisma to get people’s attention and keep it, from this standpoint it was all Punk's fault and not booking, he had a chance to make people care about him and failed.

Let's face it IWC. Punk was a failure. He wasn't ready for the main-event in any capacity. He wasn't a legitimate champion, and wasn't an entertaining champion. He did nothing of value, and nothing of note.

That’s true, he won the title in way some didn’t really buy into and after he won it whenever he was on the mic his lack of charisma lost people. He had the chance to do something of note and get himself over, but for that to happen he would have to possess some hint of talent to hold the crowd. You can’t say it’s because of JBL, he is a heat magnet and gave Punk plenty of chances, he just didn’t know how to run with it and lacked a good ring presence.

His title reign was a failure. The question is, will he be able to bounce back from it, a la Randy Orton, or will he fall to the wayside like Rob Van Dam? I want to read your thoughts.

The answer here would be no, Randy Orton is an excellent seller and has good mic skills and rebounded because he had the talent to do it. Rob van dam had more talent than Punk, but screwed it up with various problems. Punk won’t fall into the crap RVD did nor does he have the talent to rebound like Orton, at best he will fall into the midcard never to be heard from again...Or maybe this is just wishful thinking.

 

[Showtime]

I think were all in agreement that Punk in no way was expected to be the champion, and as such he was not ready for it, his character has not been built right since he lost the ECW title. But for WWE just placing the title on him, I think Punk did an good job for what was given to him. I mean it's not his fault he was placed in a long feud with JBL who can't get anybody over, seriously how many times did Punk need to beat JBL, after the first time he proved he was better, Given obvious opponents the crowd knew Punk would beat and having him lose/win by DQ in all his matches with Batista. If Punk had won just one of his matches with Batista, even if there was interfernece just saying if he got one pin, and if beat Jericho on Raw (didn't understand that loss at the time) his reign would've looked instantly better and more credible. I thought Punk performed well for what he was given, and there's no denying he helped bring buzz and interest back to Monday Nights as champion. Hopefully now they can build Punk as a legitimate contender, which they should've done before he became champ, and get him back the World title one day, I think he's got what it takes to make it big, he just needs a little more time and a few more wins.

 

[Robi2184]

I dont want to start an argument, but Punk held the Title for all summer and it appears like he will be involved in a huge feud with Orton. Aside from that he will get a rematch for the Title and the WWE fans are really starting to buy into the guy. WWE has also been teasing a feud between him and Jericho since WM. Remember who Punk beat to the top of MITB, it was Jericho. He also beat Jericho to advance in KOTR. Then he loses to Jericho in Chicago, and now Jericho rubs his title thanks to Orton.

I dont know but the feud with Orton and this next generation of wrestlers seems like it is gonna be huge. So I think you cant say Punk is a Failure. Punk is alot like RVD the guy has a huge fan base believe it or not and the WWE knows that. Check the ratings news and you will know Punks matches were the most watched while the guy was Champion. The fact Punk did not get pinned for his title and was not in the match it is a way of the WWE not burying the guy and leaving the doors open for him. Tommorrow Raw is gonna be very interesting.

 

[midusone]

I've never really been a big fan of Punk. I think he has a ton of potential though. But as far as booking goes I'm gonna say it was probably 50-50. I remember Brock Lesnar taking on top names month after month just for the sake of a push. Punk? He gets JBL, the only wrestler I disliked more then the Big Boss Man. I mean come on. There's a huge differance between wanting to watch the heel get his ass beat or instead wanting to watch an old rerun of Jackass. JBL vs. Jackass? I'd take knoxville and co. anyday of the week. And if you asked JBL about it he'd probably mutter something about harley race and barry windom

 

[Crimson Bonez]

I think were all in agreement that Punk in no way was expected to be the champion, and as such he was not ready for it, his character has not been built right since he lost the ECW title. But for WWE just placing the title on him, I think Punk did an good job for what was given to him. I mean it's not his fault he was placed in a long feud with JBL who can't get anybody over, seriously how many times did Punk need to beat JBL, after the first time he proved he was better, Given obvious opponents the crowd knew Punk would beat and having him lose/win by DQ in all his matches with Batista. If Punk had won just one of his matches with Batista, even if there was interfernece just saying if he got one pin, and if beat Jericho on Raw (didn't understand that loss at the time) his reign would've looked instantly better and more credible. I thought Punk performed well for what he was given, and there's no denying he helped bring buzz and interest back to Monday Nights as champion. Hopefully now they can build Punk as a legitimate contender, which they should've done before he became champ, and get him back the World title one day, I think he's got what it takes to make it big, he just needs a little more time and a few more wins.

JBL can't get anybody over? Maybe my memory is bad but when Cena beat JBL to win the WWE title, didn't that oficially (sp) elevate him in the ME. If that didn't then him beating him in that I Quit match sure as hell did. So enough of the JBL doesn't put anybody over crap. And JBL isn't the only 1 Punk has had matches with since he's ben champ. Let's see, Tista, Y2J, Kane, Regal, Sniksky. 4 ME, a no body, and Regal, how's that "Not wrestling any1 but JBL" And the only reason he brought "buzz" to raw as champ was because a majority of people wanted to see how long he'd keep the title and who he was fueding with to lose it to.

And the whole booking argument needs to stop too. Cena held the belt for over a year, he was booked to win the title. Not his fault, he was booked that way, but you can't say that about Cena right cause he sucks right? And to add to the booking argument, lets look at this booking. Cena, booked to be a posing white rapper hip hop persona, trying to be "black". Look at what happend to him. Spanky, had a simliar role, didn't do that good with it, im sure others have had that role, didn't do that good with it. Cena made it work. Punk was giving his push on ECW, given the MITB case, given the world title. Did he work hard for that...? NO! It was given to him. He can't have everything given to him. Did he want WWE to give him fans, to make him look credible, to give him good promos? No his character, his gimmic HE should have done that. His straight edge gimmic obviously didn't work as world champ. Punks a trationall champ. He's done in the ME. After Orton's done with him, he's back in the Mid-Card where he belongs.

Just cause you don't win, doesnt mean you aren't put over or made to look good. Take the match on smackdown Champ vs Champ Triple H vs Benjamin. Benjamin aint win, but Triple H helped him look like a threat to the title. Cena and Tista beating Rhodes and Dibiase and then Cena beating both alone in handie-cap, they may have lost, but they still looked good. Can't say Punk looked good in any of his matches. And the 1's he won- beat Snitsky: Broke his nose, beat JBL: head collision or droped on head I duno something happened to JBL though. You can't just have your oppenent make the whole match. You need to take part in it as well. Hell if I knew I was going to lose my matches, I'd put'on 1 hell of a match. That would make me seem weaker if my oppenent had to do all the work to make me look good. It was just kick kick beat down, Kick kick beat down over and over agin.

And that "He wasn't expecting" argument doesn't work either. He knew that he would be cashing in that case, becoming champ Imediatly when he was told h ewould be winning the MITB match at WM. It was just a matter of time when. Soon as I found out I would be winning the MITB, I'da steped my in-ring game up. Touched up on everything. Skill, mic work, in-ring work, etc. Anything and everything that I could, to make me look like a credible champ. Fact is, Punk was a bad champ. Booking didn't do that, Punk did that.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Punk won’t fall into the crap RVD did nor does he have the talent to rebound like Orton, at best he will fall into the midcard never to be heard from again.

How typical of the IWC...jumping to extreme conclusions.


Punk is all over the place. To say that he is going to drift to the mid-card and never show up again on the main event level is absolutely ridiculous. The guy's t-shirts are everywhere...he's all over their advertisements...and he's the poster boy of who the new family-friendly WWE wants to be known for promoting.

Not to mention, his in-ring work is VERY SOLID. His mic skills are a little green, and he's definitely no Rock, but give the guy some time to get over. He's an injury + high profile return away from being huge. FACT.

 

[MasterDebator]

How typical of the IWC...jumping to extreme conclusions.


Punk is all over the place. To say that he is going to drift to the mid-card and never show up again on the main event level is absolutely ridiculous. The guy's t-shirts are everywhere...he's all over their advertisements...and he's the poster boy of who the new family-friendly WWE wants to be known for promoting.

Not to mention, his in-ring work is VERY SOLID. His mic skills are a little green, and he's definitely no Rock, but give the guy some time to get over. He's an injury + high profile return away from being huge. FACT.

I completely agree. This is not the end of Punk. His title reign was not nearly as bad as it's being made out to be. I think the WWE realized that by far their most entertaining guy right now is Chris Jericho and it was a no-brainer to put the strap on him, regardless of the way it happened. The fact is that it did happen. Now Punk is seemingly in a feud with Randy Orton and how exactly does it hurt him? Orton is one of the biggest and best and if Punk can elevate himself to Orton's level it will only help him.

I'd look at this run as his trial run. It was NOT a failure or a success for that matter. But there was potential there. If Punk can continue to improve in programs not involving a belt, it's only a matter of time before he wears gold again. Let's stop burying this guy.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Your a complete moron for even making this thread...Punk is NOT a failure, that would be The WWE Creative Team.

Neither are failures. They both have gained from Punk being a champion, particularly in the way it was carried out.

Why in the hell do you book your Champion to loose without being in the match?...Unless it's due to an injury then shame on WWE.

Answer: to get the belt off of very, very green future star...to prevent his career from taking a nosedive...to put the title on a far more deserving and legitimate candidate...and to help this future star get more over in feuding with the best guy in the business.

Unforgiven I swear was like TNA to me "nothing made sense"

That's too bad, because Unforgiven was one of the top 3 best PPVs of the year. It was very entertaining, and had a great mixture of solid wrestling and unexpected surprises.



As far as his mic skills not being good lol, obviously you've never heard Punk's ROH stuff.

WWE = ROH??? Answer: NO There is a reason that people are in ROH and not in WWE. It's because THEY AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH. If someone had the shot at making it in the big time, 99% of the time, ROH is getting left. So, when

[Yeah Yeah ROH Fanboy right? Well yeah I like Wrestling that has superior "Wrestling" Matches and booking/creative that has actual logic.

Irrelevant.

Punk is fantastic on the Mic, but when he's booked as a 80's Uber Baby Face and his sh*t is scripted what do you expect?

I'm sure that being good on the mic in ROH is a far cry from being good on the mic in WWE. Like I said, there is a reason that people are in ROH instead of WWE. Furthermore, wouldn't the scripting actually assist Punk? He can plan out what he's going to say and analyze how it going to get over.

I fully believe WWE did this whole thing to embarrass him and as a spit at the so called net smarks and hardcore fans.

Ah, good point. I always embarrass my employee of the month when I feel like he is actually a failure. That's a GREAT way to do business.

And as well as him having to change his whole move set into what WWE wanted "a 2nd rate KENTA ripoff" doesn't help either that Punk doesn't Wrestle like Punk anymore. Punk is a natural born Heel so...Obviously as a goody two show Baby Face maybe that doesn't work out so well...yeah. Im sorry you give terrible taste in talent and crap on Punk based on how OTHERS book him and promos OTHERS write for him.

To make a long story short, Punk just got his career turned into high gear. Thus I don't understand what the whining is about. He has a feud with the greatest in the business.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Its a two-part effort as to why he was a failure. At fault:

1. CM Punk - He didn't do anything new, innovative, special...just the same as he's always been doing. And when you're not that exciting in the first place, it doesn't help to do the same thing. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, if it isn't working, you NEED to fix it lol. Punk was stale before and kept doing the same thing, and thus, he remained stale. In the opportunities that he was given, he didn't do anything but the bare minimum required.

2. WWE Booking - Its not his fault alone that they booked him to look like he can't win. He most likely had no say in how he couldn't beat anybody clean, lost in Chicago to Jericho, etc. Clearly, they didn't think of him as a true champion, and decided to book him as if he wasn't in the first place rather than trying to convince us that he was ready.


All in all, yes, Punk is officially a dud in terms of his title reign. Upper midcard right now, like Mysterio.

 

[LordPenguin81]

Ok Steamboat im not gonna quote you 10 times, Honestly I dont even know how to do it lol. Ive been watching Wrestling since I was about 4, so for about 23 years now. 1st Off...Unforgiven was terrible. 3 Scramble Matches in 1 PPV? Yes that is TNA like. I mean, It totally kills the pop and any feel good when the Title changes hands 2-4 times in 1 Match. Especially if your married to the bosses daughter and put the least effort into the Match and not once but twice bury the "no pun intended" MVP of the Match in Kendrick, And do so just to add to your Title reigns to get even closer to Flair. And you say ROH Promos are inferior to WWE and just because it's ROH and WWE you just automatically X out Punk's mic work in ROH? Well if you go watch some and give an un-biased opinion then maybe I would at least respect your judgment on that. Go and watch Punk's work after he won The ROH Title at DBD IV and it outshines ANY promo the WWE has had in years, and im not even mentioning his promos while he was feuding with Raven. But hey it's just ROH and all fans just like it more then WWE cause it's the "in thing" to do right? Yeah...And why isnt WWE wouldn't make this move just to insult Punk and the quote un-quote "net smarks"? WWE is notorious for doing angles and what not just at their own personal amusement..."Who is Vinces Bastard Son" "Cryme Tyme in general, A Stephanie McMahon favorite" Im just saying because it's The WWE does not mean their superior, maybe so in marketing and financially, but that DOES NOT mean their the best Wresting. Just as much of Underground Music is better then all the crap they put on The Radio. To each it's own though...

 

[Mexican Geek]

Holy Baby Jesús H. Christ, my eyes almost popped out trying to stay in the text line, could you try a little spacing between lines next time? lol, j/k!

Ok, LordPenguin, here we go:

Your a complete moron for even making this thread...Punk is NOT a failure, that would be The WWE Creative Team. Why in the hell do you book your Champion to loose without being in the match?
Unforgiven I swear was like TNA to me "nothing made sense" Unless it's due to an injury then shame on WWE.

Ok, besides the chance of an injury (which is my actual theory) i dont see why you blame creative here. Sly said it sound and clear: the guy is a former ECW World Champion, he WON the MITB at Mania, he gets a huge push when moved to RAW in the Draft and beats one of the top 5 guys in the biz (Edge) for the WHC. What else a young talent like him could ask?

As far as his mic skills not being good lol, obviously you've never heard Punk's ROH stuff. Yeah Yeah ROH Fanboy right? Well yeah I like Wrestling that has superior "Wrestling" Matches and booking/creative that has actual logic.

Yet, ROH is nowhere near WWE in terms of....everything? Biz market, money revenue, roster, reputation, history, etc.

Punk is fantastic on the Mic, but when he's booked as a 80's Uber Baby Face and his sh*t is scripted what do you expect? I fully believe WWE did this whole thing to embarrass him and as a spit at the so called net smarks and hardcore fans.

Do you think that all of his ROH stuff is improvised? LMMFAO, welcome to the world of Wrestling, EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE is scripted. Hell, even your next door Backyard Championship Wrasslin' is scripted!
And you say that WWE did that to emabarras him and "spit" on us smarks?? *ROFLCOPTER* maybe Punk should have improvised his game before and showed us that he is not another Samoa Joe, who could be an Indies God, but absolutely blows as a TNA champ.

And as well as him having to change his whole move set into what WWE wanted "a 2nd rate KENTA ripoff" doesn't help either that Punk doesn't Wrestle like Punk anymore.

Do you realize that there is a specific, profitable sector of the public called "Kids"? just imagine what would happen if ALL of the great hardcore moves would be allowed in the WWE...I'll tell you what: A endless stream of lawsuits from concerned parents whose children killed each other using Kobashi's Burning Hammer. Wrestlers nowdays should improve in other aspects as ring psychology, mic skills and ring presence. I think the signature moves is just like 10 to 15% of a good match.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Ok Steamboat

The name is Monkey. Steamboat Ricky's tag partner. Ricky went to bed but I have not.

im not gonna quote you 10 times, Honestly I dont even know how to do it lol.

Please do, then I have to do all the work of figuring what I want to quote you on. It just becomes a hassle. Please learn it.

Ive been watching Wrestling since I was about 4, so for about 23 years now.

I was 3. IN YOUR FACE.

1st Off...Unforgiven was terrible.

Fun and games are over now. Unforgiven was not terrible. It was a very well done show. Possibly the second best PPV of the year. That was just on the scramble alone. You also had Michaels/Jericho, Priceless/Cryme Tyme in a very decent match. Then you also had a half decent Diva's match. What's not to love...

Oh I see the rest of your post now. Gotcha.

3 Scramble Matches in 1 PPV? Yes that is TNA like.

Not really. WWE thought up the scramble idea way back at WM 2000. Granted it was for the hardcore title and title changes did count as legit title changes it still doesnt classify as TNA-like. They were exciting you never knew what was going to happen next. Who was gonna get the pinfall and who was going to walk out as champion.

I mean, It totally kills the pop and any feel good when the Title changes hands 2-4 times in 1 Match.

They don't count as ACTUAL title changes. That rule was strongly inforced throughout WWE programming up until Unforgiven. You must not have been paying attention. The person with the final pinfall was declared champ. Anything before that was an "interim champ".

Especially if your married to the bosses daughter and put the least effort into the Match and not once but twice bury the "no pun intended" MVP of the Match in Kendrick, And do so just to add to your Title reigns to get even closer to Flair.

:rollseyes: No one but Hardy had enough momentum going into that match to beat Triple H. Kendrick was awesome in the match no doubt. But he's not ready. Neither is MVP or Hardy. Shelton will never be ready in my opinion and was just in there for filler. Triple H is the man. It's not because he is married to the bosses daughter. This is for ANOTHER thread.

And you say ROH Promos are inferior to WWE and just because it's ROH and WWE you just automatically X out Punk's mic work in ROH?

Yes. I would.

Well if you go watch some and give an un-biased opinion then maybe I would at least respect your judgment on that. Go and watch Punk's work after he won The ROH Title at DBD IV and it outshines ANY promo the WWE has had in years, and im not even mentioning his promos while he was feuding with Raven. But hey it's just ROH and all fans just like it more then WWE cause it's the "in thing" to do right? Yeah...And why isnt WWE wouldn't make this move just to insult Punk and the quote un-quote "net smarks"? WWE is notorious for doing angles and what not just at their own personal amusement..."Who is Vinces Bastard Son" "Cryme Tyme in general, A Stephanie McMahon favorite" Im just saying because it's The WWE does not mean their superior, maybe so in marketing and financially, but that DOES NOT mean their the best Wresting. Just as much of Underground Music is better then all the crap they put on The Radio. To each it's own though...

ROH is shit. Complete and utter trash. C.M. Punk is an outstanding talent. His mic skills need work. But for you to say that ROH has better wrestling is wrong. WWE is global because of there wrestling and marketing. ROH is still stagnant and barely going anywhere. C.M. Punk is not a failure. The WWE is doing the right thing by him. Trust me, they've been doing it for years.

 

[midusone]

The truth of this whole thing is that it's one persons opinion against anothers. Scott Steiner said it best in his RF shoot interview. WWE didn't necessarily steal all of WCW's fans, they just amassed more fans. That applies here also. Just because you prefer what ROH brings to the table doesn't mean it'll work everywhere. And for WWE doing this whole title change in spite of the smarks, I think that's ridiculous. The whole ECW talent initiative is a fan service to the smarks, you really think they'll let some one who's been fighting guys like Nigel McGuiness and El Generico go over on someone like Triple H? You'd be hard pressed to get them over on Carlito. Guys like Matt Sydel are finally going to get thier time to shine. Regardless of your name or gimmick, if your good than your good.

 

[Sicko]

I can't say he was a Failure, his run was pretty the same as Orton's run as Champion

he was the Champion but the Main Story Lines on Raw had NOTHING to do with him, he was the champion but Bastista vs Cena or Y2J vs HBK was the Mainevents, kinda hard to take your Champion serious when he is not even the main focus of the show nor has he been in a very entertaining fued, the JBL thing was average and JBL carried that fued

I hate the Face/Clean and Sober CM Punk probably should turn heel

 

[Miko]

Going on the logic that you need to get yourself over I dont think Punk did a bad job, his pops got bigger and bigger everyweek and it seemed like people wanted to see him win. The whole underdog champion wasnt a bad thing really, he wasnt booked incredibly strongly before winning so its not like he's going to become unstoppable after winning the belt is it?

I was even starting to enjoy Punks title reign, although theres no denying I marked hard when Jericho won, he dropped the title simply because it was his time I think, now he's going to fued with Randy Orton and whoever wins that its still going to make Punk look stronger. So all in all it wasnt a bad effort in my view.

 

[Rusty]

It's sad that his reign had to end so soon as I personally liked CM Punk as the World Heavyweight Champion. It was very refreshing in my eyes. Sure, he might not have been totally ready to be the World Champion, but it came as a shock to everyone and Raw actually gained viewers for the first month or so after he won the title. Vince took a risk, the ratings weren't going too good and he had to build a new main eventer quickly. CM Punk was the guy nobody expected to win the title in June. But, this year he has been booked terribly. Losing to guys like Chavo and The Miz certainly didn't help his situation.

Sure Sly will probably say "He failed on his own. WWE booking can't be blamed", but the fact is, his title reign was indeed awfully booked. Punk tried his hardest in my opinion. His promos weren't the greatest, but I thought they were pretty average and acceptable. Guys like Chris Benoit didn't have the greatest mic skills but still managed to be champion. His in-ring work was good. He managed to have good matches with JBL and Chris Jericho. His match with Batista on Raw was horrible, but that can't be blamed entirely on Punk.

The WWE let Punk down. They had him lose cleanly almost every single week. They only gave him one pay per view victory which was against a guy that he had already beaten prior to that match. The guy has talent and I hope his push doesn't end so soon. It is also an awkward time to have Punk lose the title with Randy Orton returning soon. I was certain those two would feud over the title as I think they would have been a money feud. The only good thing that came from this title reign, is that he didn't lose the title cleanly as he wasn't even involved in the match! This gives him a reason to challenge for a rematch for the title as I would personally love to see a Chris Jericho/CM Punk feud.

The WWE shouldn't give up on building Punk into a legitimate main eventer as I think this title reign helped him in a way. His matches improved and so did his mic skills, in my opinion. I enjoyed his title reign as I found it refreshing and unique. I am excited that Jericho won the title, but I wish he won it at a later date, preferably at Survivor Series instead. I am hoping for a nice feud between Punk and Jericho that will hopefully give us many great matches to enjoy. They have proven they can put on a good match before. A Randy Orton feud will also help Punk. So the road isn't over yet for CM Punk, hopefully.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

In classic IWC fashion, you're all over reacting, and acquiescing to the negative. CM Punk's title reign was hardly a failure.

Think about it, kiddies. He wasn't a transitional, 1 PPV Champ as many feared he would be. He held in very well, got some decent matches out of JBL, and created some buzz in a from-out-of-no-where victory, taking the belt off Edge in classic Edge fashion and then playing the underdog champ, proving the naysayers wrong.

His title win created heat for a potentially awesome feud with Randy Orton.

His title win ALSO helped establish him as a potential contender to the World Heavyweight Title for those inevitable, seemingly annual injury bugs that hit WWE. Batista is in his 40's and Michaels is in his, like, 60's. Even Jericho is in his mid-30's, and Kane has gotta be pushing 40. What happens when Batista, Kane, and Michaels retire, and Randy "Tin Man" Orton goes down with another injury? Or Cena? Punk has shown he can handle the pressure, and he's a viable contender.

Punk also took almost ALL of the negative, drug-related press OFF of the WWE with a promotable, straight-edged champion.

Now, Sly claims Punk fans will blame the WWE's booking for this. I want to say I am not a Punk "fan," but I like him. There is nobody to blame. It was a fair short title reign. It wasn't supposed to be one of those legendary title reigns. He didn't blow the doors off, but he didn't sink the ship either. He was given the keys to the Ferrari, and while he didn't open it up entirely, he didn't crash it, either.

Punk will be fine. He's got strong work ethic, and he will benefit from the rub. RVD never had that work ethic Punk has. CM Punk is too focused, and he'll be back. I expect the feud with Orton and Team Priceless to be awesome. But his title reign made him a legit main event contender, and that's ok with me.

 

[psykohurricane]

Personally am not going to say that CM Punk was a failure as Champion because it'S not true. Sure the WWE did a horrible job with him but that was the case since he first started in the WWE so that doesn'T mean anything. The problem with Punk is that he's can'T be the real C.M. Punk. He's stuck with the wwe version because that'S what the wwe wants and he's not confortable with it.

His title reign was as forgettable as pretty any other champion in the last 2 years. The only guy the got a good title reign was Cena and everybody was pretty much hating him for it so saying that punk was a failure as champion is like saying the Orton was a failure or Batista was a failure, it doesn'T mean anything because it'S the opinion of one guy that probably didn'T like Punk to begin with. Punk did everything he could with the hand that he was dealt and i'm proud of him for what he did with it and for what i saw and heard the last couple of weeks, Punk was able to get over with the crowd so i don'T see that has failure at all, i see this as the beginning of a great career for Punk.