The Double-Turn?

[Adam Rush]

Ziggler and Del Rio's World Championship match resulted in a Del Rio victory. Ziggler was clearly affected by his concussions, but Del Rio wouldn't stop. Ziggler kept fighting despite the injury. Del Rio then was heavily booed during his promo after the match.

Was this a double-turn?

Discuss.

 

[Dice]

I don't see this doing much for Del Rio considering he hasn't gotten a reaction as a face or a heel before, I just hope Ziggle regains the title soon as he needs it more right now.

 

[Da Solo]

At the moment, it definitely seems like a double turn.

They clearly went for the sympathy angle here with Dolph. Ziggler got attacked even after he was tended to. Then he loses with a kick to the head. Then, to top it all off, they have Del Rio go to the back, come back out and ignore the fact that the crowd booed the crap out of him while cutting a cheesy face promo. They knew he'd be booed and could'vt 86'ed the post-match promo when he went to the back, but they brought him back out to rub it in their faces. That is heelish. Dolph they showed stumbling on his way out of the arena. Once again, sympathy.

 

[hardy8778]

This is all a story line a great one to get Ziggler over at the end but no i don't believe this a double turn unless WWE wants to use the post match promo as material to start a heel turn for Del Rio which would be dumb in my opinion

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

Dolph Ziggler may have lost tonight, but what an incredible run he had as World Champion with a grand total of no defenses. He won the Title by cashing in MITB, got hurt and missed his first PPV title defense with an injury, then dropped the belt at the next PPV to a guy that is not over in any way whatsoever. Talk about letting a guy run with the ball.

As far as the double turn idea goes, it was handled pretty much perfectly and makes sense since the fans clearly like Ziggler much more than Del Rio anyways. The WWE is in desperate need of faces that the crowd legitimately supports, and hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things for Ziggler when it's all said and done. Now I'm just waiting for the vast majority of fans on the internet to turn on Ziggler once he becomes a full babyface.

 

[amit mahata]

del rio does not deserve the title ziggler should get back the title quickly

 

[Greg4WWE]

I think WWE really wanted Del Rio to work out as a face due to the Latino supporters, but he was being boo'd anyway. Dolph was being cheered, I guess it makes sense for Del Rio to be a heel while Dolph a face. I don't think it was the original plans, but plans change.

 

[The Champ]

The commentary's reactions made it very clear to me that it was a double turn. Cole and King, the babyface commentators, began to condemn Del Rio for his actions and repeatedly mentioned the valiant effort and heart shown by Dolph.

I enjoyed the whole thing, mainly because it was very unexpected (probably the only truly unexpected thing that happened all night). I didn't think in a million years that Del Rio would be heel again this soon, nor that Dolph would begin a face turn in this manner.

I didn't enjoy Del Rio much during a lot of his previous heel run, but I'm willing to give this a chance regardless. I think it means big things for Dolph, and it's a cool shakeup to the SmackDown title scene to carry us into the summer.

 

[#heel420]

Just got back from Payback. Del Rio was booed the whole time. I think they made the decision to do the double turn just based off the reactions of the crowd.

 

[The Champ]

Just got back from Payback. Del Rio was booed the whole time. I think they made the decision to do the double turn just based off the reactions of the crowd.

The commentary indicates otherwise. Cole and King began to harshly criticize Del Rio and praise Dolph midway through the match; that's not something that just gets decided on the fly. The booking of the match with Del Rio taking advantage of the injury, coupled with the commentary, indicate that it was planned, and I thought it was well executed.

 

[#heel420]

The commentary indicates otherwise. Cole and King began to harshly criticize Del Rio and praise Dolph midway through the match; that's not something that just gets decided on the fly. The booking of the match with Del Rio taking advantage of the injury, coupled with the commentary, indicate that it was planned, and I thought it was well executed.

Oh being in the crowd I couldn't hear the commentary, but they're being talked to by producers through the headsets and being told what to say about the match and the superstars competing.

So isn't it possible that they called an audible because the crowd was so pro Ziggler and anti Del Rio?

 

[The Champ]

Oh being in the crowd I couldn't hear the commentary, but they're being talked to by producers through the headsets and being told what to say about the match and the superstars competing.

So isn't it possible that they called an audible because the crowd was so pro Ziggler and anti Del Rio?

I understand that they're being told what to say through their headsets, but you don't change the entire booking of a match on the fly due to a crowd reaction. The match was clearly booked in a way that would make Del Rio out to be the "bad guy" and Dolph the fighting champion who just couldn't make it through the injury. The commentary, however, is usually a pretty good indication of how they want the people at home to react, as evidenced by the recent Punk and Ryback turns.

They knew who Chicago was going to cheer and boo anyway, they've been there enough times to figure that out.

 

[supernatural1981]

The way they have done it was decent because they must of known that ADR was not getting over as a face and that Ziggler was becoming more of a face each time he came out due to the pops he was getting.

Should they of kept the belt of Ziggler? maybe but as they always say there is more money in a face chasing the heel for the title than the other way round and if ADR wasn't getting over as a face then there is no money in him chasing a heel Ziggler.

The concussion MAY of been a blessing in disguise because now they had a way out of Ziggler dropping the title without defending it because of this and now they have a decent storyline already written where Ziggler will at some point get HIS title back that he lost when he wasn't 100%

 

[Terry Gyimah]

I actually loved the double-turn and especially right there in Chicago with Del Rio becoming a heel all over again with Ziggler turning face or if that was a face turn for Ziggler then I say it was done perfectly but at the same time I wonder that now that Ziggler is face, will he still stick with AJ and Big E. since they are heels or will Ziggler dump A.J. and Big E. to break out on his own?

 

[The Champ]

I actually loved the double-turn and especially right there in Chicago with Del Rio becoming a heel all over again with Ziggler turning face or if that was a face turn for Ziggler then I say it was done perfectly but at the same time I wonder that now that Ziggler is face, will he still stick with AJ and Big E. since they are heels or will Ziggler dump A.J. and Big E. to break out on his own?

I have a hard time believing that AJ will go face anytime soon with the way she's being booked against Kaitlyn, what with the secret admirer thing being a cruel ruse and an attempt to destroy her. Dolph will probably split from AJ and E, with the two of them sticking together. Kind of like what happened with Christian and Trish/Tomko in 2004.

 

[Terry Gyimah]

I have a hard time believing that AJ will go face anytime soon with the way she's being booked against Kaitlyn, what with the secret admirer thing being a cruel ruse and an attempt to destroy her. Dolph will probably split from AJ and E, with the two of them sticking together. Kind of like what happened with Christian and Trish/Tomko in 2004.

You may be right and Dolph's face turn here actually reminds me of Shawn Michaels' face turn in the 1990s when Shawn Michaels was The Boy Toy and he ended up becoming The Kliq's HBK when Shawn Michaels came back from injury to win the Royal Rumble in 1996 with Dolph coming back from his injury similar to HBK and getting cheered like no tomorrow watch Dolph get the biggest pops in WWE, only a matter of time

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm thinking that it was a double turn. WWE saw an opportunity here and considering that Ziggler's concussion threw a monkeywrench into his title reign, it may be for the best. A while back, there was a report stating that WWE was more concerned about exactly when to turn Ziggler face rather than if it would happen. Ziggler looked to be selling as if maybe he wasn't completely over the effects of the concussion, thereby showing a lot of guts continuing the match. It gives Ziggler an out, given that concussions are extremely serious, and builds him as a sympathetic babyface.

Del Rio got more heat from the Chicago crowd last night than I think he's ever gotten. Del Rio, to me, is overall better as a heel and it makes more sense. For instance, how many babyfaces have their own "personal ring announcer"? If this whole thing winds up leading to a big babyface push for Ziggler, then I'm all for it.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Just when I believed Dolph's future had arrived and a long, long championship reign was in store....he loses it. That's not to say he can't get it back at any time, but I think it will be as a good guy.

Dolph has been nothing but a heel his entire career....even as a member of the Spirit Squad. Yes, I know how most people on this forum prefer every performer as a bad guy (outside of John Cena), but a character can get stale as hell....and face it, how many performers have remained in character their entire ring careers?

That the company had Alberto Del Rio win the title back at all surely indicates a change in outlook; maybe for ADR, but certainly for Dolph. I'd like to see him as a face, and believe the PPV has set the stage for it.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind ADR staying face and perhaps becoming an ally of Dolph. ADR had clearly run out of steam as a heel and despite what some folks on this forum are saying, I think his turning good guy generated a lot of positive reaction. I was certainly more interested in him.

There are too many heels around, anyway. I say, give guys like Dolph, Cody & Drew chances to gain some momentum by turning 'em virtuous. With good writing, who knows what might happen?

 

[The Butcher]

Well done by WWE. They felt which way the winds were blowing. I'm a Del Rio fan, not a big one, but I think a lot of his critics are overly harsh. I enjoyed his face run at first, but it hit the skids and the heel turn was necessary. Ziggler's demeanor/character have never screamed babyface, but his in-ring performance has been begging to get cheers for a long time. Some think that he oversells, I think that he sells for the fans sitting in the nosebleed seats rather than for the fans sitting on their couch. He's been getting good reactions, especially from "smart" and/or lively crowds, and the way they carried out the double-turn last night will ensure he gets them from casual/lackadaisical audiences as well. Well done by WWE all-around. I look forward to the follow though.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I think it was a double turn and it's a smart move. Del Rio is talented, but he's no baby face. He was at his best when he was doing his Ted DiBiase-esque gimmick. That was working for him. Ziggler lost momentum as a heel, and was getting the cheers. They could've had Ziggler go over on Del Rio, but then..what next for Del Rio? And would it really have gotten Ziggler back on track?

This seems to be the better move.

 

[Blade]

I realised about halfway through when Ziggler was really selling the concussion that they were going for a double-turn. And I was super excited yet cautious. Double-turns are a rare beast and they're a big deal when it happens because it can change the complexion of a whole feud and, in this case, it changed the whole complexion of Smackdown.

Now, not everyone has the story-telling capabilities of Stone Cold and Bret Hart, the guys behind the greatest double-turn in history. But I thought Del Rio and Ziggler (and AJ) did a fantastic job here. Ziggler sold it like a champ, as he always does. Del Rio was doing that smile that makes you want to slap him. Several of the kicks to Ziggler's head left me speechless, especially when Ziggler was getting medical attention outside the ring and Del Rio came through the ropes with both feet. AJ was basically in tears. And the announcers were putting over Ziggler like a face. And then Del Rio gave a douchebag promo.

It seemed successful on the night, but you can never judge a turn, let alone a double-turn, until the next show, which will likely be tonight on Raw. But Del Rio works best as a heel and Ziggler needed something to give him a boost after a month out, and a face turn could do that. Not the greatest wrestling match I've ever seen, but the storytelling was fantastic.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Ziggler is the most over guy in WWE by far right now, and there is no doubt in my mind that this constituted a double turn. Del Rio's cowardly tactics and Ziggler bravely struggling to continue is about as clichè as it gets, but it works for the storyline. My main problem is that with as rare of a moment as a double turn is, putting this in the middle of the show already derailed the momentum they could have had with this. This match should have closed the show.

 

[multiverseman.com]

Ziggler is the most over guy in WWE by far right now

Tee hee. Have you heard of Daniel Bryan?

It would've been nice if they had gone all the way instead of tippy-toeing it. Del Rio's speech was ok, but he should've gotten frustrated and heeled on the crowd hardcore, cementing it.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

If this is a double turn, then it's a smart move on WWE's part. Its clear to see that Del rio is not going to work out as a face and if the fans are going to boo him then you might as well have him turn Heel again. Dolph on the other hand is a guy the fans have been wanting to cheer for a long time. Dolph go a massive pop when he beat Del Rio for the title and there is always a section of the crowd that cheers for him when his music hits, So once again it just seems like good buissness to me to have him turn and while we are on the subject of buissness, it seems to me that Dolph will far more Marketable as a face then Del Rio ever could be.

 

[MCMG]

I didn't hate Del Rio as a face - I thought he was getting decent reactions and it opened up better feuds. For me, Ziggler is quite similar to Orton when he was heel. Both were getting cheered so turning them face was inevitable and makes sense. Del Rio as a heel will work as will Ziggler as a face. If I'm honest, I do prefer the other way around but I'm not complaining.