Im a long time wwe fan for about 25 years. Totally stopped watching since 2004 because it was so crap. Recently started watching a little bit out of curiosity, and sadly it hasnt got any better, its gotten a lot worse. Some Observations.
All the wrestlers seem like clones of each other. All generic clean cut, good looking well spoken educated guys, who seem to share the exact same 'arrogant' gimmick. Yawn.
Oh you mean guys like Randy Orton? Because not only is he NOT a college graduate, he was dishonorably discharged from the marines. John Cena was a frickin chauffeur before he landed his job in WWE. Clearly, they have great careers to fall back on if the whole wrestling thing falls through.
Almost every character has at least a level of douche bag, and plays for laughs. The whole feel the show is immature. The promos seem very forced and scripted, and generally crap. You can tell these college boys are heavily coached and scripted and every expression has been practiced in the mirror 100 times.
That's a bad thing? This isn't professional sports, its sports entertainment. Both in the ring and out, these guys are acting the part. So of course their promos are scripted, and at times forced. And when did being a college graduate become a bad thing? Shame on those that have furthered their education.
Now lets get to some specific characters.
I saw some short, generic looking character, who would not stand out from a crowd, was until recently WWe champ. He was called the miz. Generic, haircut, face, body, and arrogant gimmick, 13 years ago this guy would have been a jobber for goldberg, and this guy was wwe champ? I guess it shows how bad things are. Probably the worst wwe champ in history. Generic in every way. WWE champs should be larger than life or unique in some way.
I thought that all of the wrestlers are pretty college boys? Miz is the opportunistic champ, he won it by opportunistic means, and he's defended it in the same way. Does the name Ric Flair mean anything? He went into almost every match with his babyface challenger looking better then him, but he always found a way to come out on top. That's what made him a great heel champion, and what's making Miz one. Miz' persona is very larger then life. He plays off his past experience and cuts some of the best promos in the business today. Oh, and he did spend his time as a jobber to the stars. That's how much he's improved.
.Then I see Orton acting like a zombie, walking around really slowly and squinting his eyes and giving out long stares, I guess he is trying to act 'bad ass' but it just seems contrived and over done and lame. not cool at all, well unless your under 15. Apparently he is doing a austin time character, what a joke. Austin was bad ass and cool because he wasnt acting, it was natural and an extension of his real personality, and he was dynamite on the mic. Orton is just a pretty college boy pretending to act bad ass, who has clearly practiced every pose and expression in the mirror 1000 times. He is also devoid of any charisma, he just acts like a zombie. At least when he was cocky he had some personality. Now he has zero, yet for some strange reason he seems over. The fans must really be deprived
Except for the fact that Orton never went to college and was dishonorably discharged from the Marines and all. and yeah, those tattoos scream pretty boy. Orton's playing his character to a 'T', and from what I understand about him, it's an extension of who he is in real life. He's got some of the best expressions and mannerisms in the business. That and he's expanded his moveset to become one of the most versatile wrestlers in the business and all.
I see Edge is a main eventer now. Whats his gimmick exactly? Just seems to act like a clown. Infact I have trouble noticing any genuine gimmicks from anyone. They all just act like arrogant or try hard funny douche bags.
Edge is the "Ultimate Opportunist." And where have you been? He's been a main eventer for 5 years now. Just because a wrestler keeps some of their heel traits when they turn face, that's not a bad thing. And how exactly should Edge act after winning his tenth World Title. I'd say feeling proud of oneself is a decent thing.
I saw some guy, called Morrison trying to do a Rock impression on the mic and try to smack down a heel, I think it was sheemus. He was trying to be funny and witty, but problem was he was not at all, it was pathetic, and cringeworthy. And this guy is apparently a big up and comer? Oh dear.
I guess you misssed his match at TLC with Sheamus, where he demonstrated some excellent in-ring psychology to go with his high flying ability. He told an incredible story in the ring, so even if his mic skills were "cringeworthy", he more then makes up for it with his in-ring talent.
Everything about the production seems overly corporatised and sanitised. There is no edge, no realism, nothing and no one is convincing at all, they all look and sound like bad actors. We all know wresting is fake but at least in the past, the wrestlers looked and acted realistic to a certain extent. No one could accuse Scott Steiner of faking or acting, he really seemed like an out of control lunatic.
Well, it is a PG show and all. You cant have guys like Steiner running around and talking about how everyone is their bitch, and making sexual innuendos and all. If thats what appeals to you, go watch Impact on Thursdays at 9PM. They're full of that sort of thing. The WWE has distinct personalities like Cena, Orton, Miz, Sheamus, and Santino, just to name a few. None of those have anything in common, nor are they bad actors.
To sum it all, Vince has clearly lost the magic and gone a long way in the wrong direction. The product is stale beyond belief and I cant see it changing, its just getting worse and worse. The roster is full of talentless tryhards. The only real superstar I see is John Cena, who clearly has an X factor. The big show is great but is just wasted as a clown. The rest are a waste of time.
The product isd thriving right now. They've done more to build new stars within the past year then the glory days of the Attitude Era ever did. They pulled off one of the biggest shockers in years with the Nexus angle. These "talentless try hards" such as CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and John Cena are the best wrestlers in the world.
.Last of all the announcers. They are a bunch of juvenile douche bags. Not convincing, and just annoying. They go well with the rest of the product.
Clearly they'rre doing their job then if they're annoying you. Michael Cole is now a full fledged heel announcer, so you're supposed to hate him. So if you find him annoying, then he's doing what he's supposed to do.
To summarize, I think you just want to find things wrong with the product to complainb about. Never mind that they've successfully built new stars(Wade Barrett, Miz, Bryan Sheamus, Del Rio), pulled off convincing storylinesZ(the Nexus invasion, Cena's "farewell" speech) and have produced some of the best matches in a long time. They're clicking right now in every way possible, and the product is as fresh and unpredictable as it's been in a long time. It seems you just can't get past your bias to see it.
The current sad state of WWE
- Thread starter Professor
- Start date
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
I agree with the OP that wrestling is shit nowadays but I disagree with laying all of the blame on Vince, did I just equate pro wrestling with WWE and only WWE? Anyway, a lot of the blame can be placed at the feet of the talent. I'm of the mind that if they'd just turn the talent loose and let them come up with their on promos and work the matches themselves instead of scripting everything out then the landscape would seem a whole lot different but, at the same time, that doesn't mean that the guys can take the gimmicks that are fed to them and make them their own similar to an actor. Take John Morrison, he's supposed to be a play on the late great Jim Morrison so why not play on that more? If I were him, I'd come to the ring as if I was out of it and half paying attention like I was high off of myself and spewing some philosophical nonsense kinda like how he did as a heel but with a twist. Although not every guy is exactly similar, a lot of the top guys are, especially the heels. The only difference between Orton and Batista's looks is the fact that Batista was just a larger man that RKO. And the OP's right, there is virtually no difference in how the heels portray themselves in the Main Event scene. Where's the unstoppable monsters, the pretty boys, or the guy with a checkered past and nothing left to lose? The most unique heel they had in the past 5 years was CM Punk and they didn't even use him like that. The Straight Edge Society could've been genius if they booked it right. I know that it's not just a gimmick to him but he really made it his own with the Messiah Complex angle he worked in. A feud with him and the enhanced John Morrison that I mentioned earlier would've been beautiful. Where are the psycological battles that guys like Raven brought? Where are the guys that embodied the spirit of the audience like Hogan in the 80's or Austin in the 90's? I heard Austin say once in an interview that Mr. McMahon would listen to anyone's ideas for a gimmick for themselves, hell, the Stone Cold gimmick was his ideas. The Rock's gimmick, like Austin's, grew organically from the feeling that they had for how they were treated(Austin by the higher ups and The Rock by the fans).
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
These are pretty much the same canned arguments I've heard since I started posting in WZ forums in March of '09. The problem is that those arguments carried a lot more weight then than they do now as 2010 has been an infinitely better year for the WWE overall than 2009.
It's time for all the PG bashers to actually look at wrestling BEFORE the Attitude Era to see how pro wrestling has portrayed itself overall. Historically speaking, professional wrestling has almost always been firmly within the realm of PG. Many of the wrestlers, classic stories, feuds, etc. I watched when I was a kid during the 80s came across like something out of an old school comic book and it pretty much stayed that way up until the mid to late 90s. The Attitude Era was different and there was a lot of fun stuff going on, but let's stop kidding ourselves. The AE wasn't some shining beacon of perfection because there was a LOT of shit that came about during that time period as well. People tend to skip over all the garbage that took place and go straight to Stone Cold or The Rock or a few others in an attempt to give the impression that stuff involving those select few was standard fair for the Attitude Era but it wasn't. The Attitude Era was a fad, plain and simple. It was a different way of portraying wrestling that people had never been exposed to before and it attracted a lot of people who hadn't been fans prior to that time. When the Monday Night Wars ended, however, the huge wrestling audience immediately started to dwindle. By 2003, still about 5 years or so before the WWE officially went back to a PG format, they were doing the same type of numbers that they're doing right now even though they were still doing some of raunchy programming.
For me, if I had to describe the overall feeling of the WWE product for 2010 in one word, I'd probably have to say fresh. There've been a lot of fresh faces put into high profile spots and feuds this year and I'm all for it. Many of the stars of the Attitude Era are getting older, their bodies suffereing from the wear and tear, old injuries that've piled up over the years are taking their toll, etc. I think the WWE should've started their youth movement a few years back but, now that it's happened, I've got no complaints. I think it's great that there are so many new stars being built and pushed because, quite honestly, I'd gotten tired of seeing Triple H, HBK & John Cena running around all over the place and I'm not the only one. I think that a lot of WWE wrestlers do have gimmicks that stand out. It's not so much the gimmick as it is the wrestler himself. If he's able to portray himself in a way that makes me interested in what he's doing, that's what ultimately matters to me. Same thing with promos. I don't care if they're scripted or shot from the hip as long as the guy talking makes sense, comes across as believable, makes me care enough to stop and listen to what he has to say and what feud/storyline he's involved in.
It's time for all the PG bashers to actually look at wrestling BEFORE the Attitude Era to see how pro wrestling has portrayed itself overall. Historically speaking, professional wrestling has almost always been firmly within the realm of PG. Many of the wrestlers, classic stories, feuds, etc. I watched when I was a kid during the 80s came across like something out of an old school comic book and it pretty much stayed that way up until the mid to late 90s. The Attitude Era was different and there was a lot of fun stuff going on, but let's stop kidding ourselves. The AE wasn't some shining beacon of perfection because there was a LOT of shit that came about during that time period as well. People tend to skip over all the garbage that took place and go straight to Stone Cold or The Rock or a few others in an attempt to give the impression that stuff involving those select few was standard fair for the Attitude Era but it wasn't. The Attitude Era was a fad, plain and simple. It was a different way of portraying wrestling that people had never been exposed to before and it attracted a lot of people who hadn't been fans prior to that time. When the Monday Night Wars ended, however, the huge wrestling audience immediately started to dwindle. By 2003, still about 5 years or so before the WWE officially went back to a PG format, they were doing the same type of numbers that they're doing right now even though they were still doing some of raunchy programming.
For me, if I had to describe the overall feeling of the WWE product for 2010 in one word, I'd probably have to say fresh. There've been a lot of fresh faces put into high profile spots and feuds this year and I'm all for it. Many of the stars of the Attitude Era are getting older, their bodies suffereing from the wear and tear, old injuries that've piled up over the years are taking their toll, etc. I think the WWE should've started their youth movement a few years back but, now that it's happened, I've got no complaints. I think it's great that there are so many new stars being built and pushed because, quite honestly, I'd gotten tired of seeing Triple H, HBK & John Cena running around all over the place and I'm not the only one. I think that a lot of WWE wrestlers do have gimmicks that stand out. It's not so much the gimmick as it is the wrestler himself. If he's able to portray himself in a way that makes me interested in what he's doing, that's what ultimately matters to me. Same thing with promos. I don't care if they're scripted or shot from the hip as long as the guy talking makes sense, comes across as believable, makes me care enough to stop and listen to what he has to say and what feud/storyline he's involved in.
Arkham Noir
With black birds following me
Expectations, expectations, expectations.
WWE is definantly diiferent than it once was, but that doesn't make it bad. I'm honestly curious as to whether or not people judge wrestling off of what they enjoy or if they just compare it to what it once was. The number one way people are going to dislike the current product is if they try taking the story-lines too seriously. If the fact that WWE caters to a younger audience hasn't sunk in yet than you don't deserve to enjoy anything. They need to make their money, and besides, there is still great things going on.
--Look at wrestling matches in this day in age. There has never been more well performing talent at any point in history (WWE wise anyways). A match that is considered average now was once considered gold. But than again, how many people watch wrestling for the matches anymore....
-- WWE is giving guys shots that they have never been given. A strong surge of new faces, and some of the older guys (mainly Kane) are getting their due without no main event Cena or Triple H.
You can consider WWE anything you want, but realize that there is several million people who tune in every week to experince this "Sad state of wrestling". Several of the things you said were true, but I don't think they are as big a deal as people make them out to be.
WWE is definantly diiferent than it once was, but that doesn't make it bad. I'm honestly curious as to whether or not people judge wrestling off of what they enjoy or if they just compare it to what it once was. The number one way people are going to dislike the current product is if they try taking the story-lines too seriously. If the fact that WWE caters to a younger audience hasn't sunk in yet than you don't deserve to enjoy anything. They need to make their money, and besides, there is still great things going on.
--Look at wrestling matches in this day in age. There has never been more well performing talent at any point in history (WWE wise anyways). A match that is considered average now was once considered gold. But than again, how many people watch wrestling for the matches anymore....
-- WWE is giving guys shots that they have never been given. A strong surge of new faces, and some of the older guys (mainly Kane) are getting their due without no main event Cena or Triple H.
You can consider WWE anything you want, but realize that there is several million people who tune in every week to experince this "Sad state of wrestling". Several of the things you said were true, but I don't think they are as big a deal as people make them out to be.
Woah, hold on a second. I may not like the current WWE product, but "sad" does not WWE define. The company is generating lots of numbers in the economics deparment even if the ratings aren't. Sure, characters are very, very underdeveloped and the stories can be underwhelming at times, but last I checked, you need to be in bad shape to be a sad clown. WWE ain't no sad clown. Sure, talent is a hugely important part of WWE's appeal. But numbers say that not much effort needs to go into that department. People not like it, me being one of them, but if the company is prospering, why leave your comfort zone?
Sure, John Morrison couldn't cut an entertaining promo to save his life, Orton looks like he's asleep half the time and John Cena is pretty much Steven Seagal mashed with Captain Planet, but at the end of the day, no matter how much you kick, no matter how much weep, no matter how much you miss the Attitude Era or the 80's, WWE is grossing just as much, if not more money, than any other time.
The only thing sad about WWE is smarks like us.
Sure, John Morrison couldn't cut an entertaining promo to save his life, Orton looks like he's asleep half the time and John Cena is pretty much Steven Seagal mashed with Captain Planet, but at the end of the day, no matter how much you kick, no matter how much weep, no matter how much you miss the Attitude Era or the 80's, WWE is grossing just as much, if not more money, than any other time.
The only thing sad about WWE is smarks like us.
this quote makes me believe you are either:
1: a TNA smark pretending to be a long time WWE fan,
2: someone who wasn't nearly the fan he claims to be,
3: a fucking moron,
or
4: all of the above.
the 80s and 90s were realistic? What the fuck were you watching, while some of us were watching the WWF, NWA/ WCW, WCCW, the AWA, and the USWA? Lets look at some of the "realism" of those two decades, shall we?
George the Animal Steele ate turnbuckles.
Junkyard dog would get on all fours, headbutt someone, and pretend to piss on them like a dog.
Doink the clown.
Mortis. Wasn't he based on a fucking video game?
Glacier. Wasn't he based on the same damn game?
Adam Bomb.
Koko B. Ware brought a parrot to the ring.
David Arquette, WCW champion.
The Macho Warrior Ric Hogan.
The Genuis Lanny Poffo recited poetry.
The legenday Hulk up manouver.
Rick Steiner barking like a dog.
Saturn and his mop.
Val Venis having his penis cut off.
Katie Vick.
The Big Boss Man's mother.
The Mountie.
The Berzerker/Bastion Booger/Ludwig Borga (take your pick)
Curt Hennig thinks rap is crap, and writes a song about it.
Mr. Ass.
Wrestlers sang the songs on the wrestling albums, instead of them just being their themes.
Hulk Hogan's Rock n' Wrestling.
all of those things sure do demonstrate how "real" wrestling was in the 80s and 90s, don't they? Those are just the ones that came to mind immediately, I am sure others could create lists as long or even longer...but if you really think wrestling was presented as more real back then, you are an idiot.
Why even post about it? Why complain? Did you just recently "check in" with wrestling again to come on here and complain? Your post is simply nonsense. If you quit watching in 04, then "sadly" you have missed a lot. Maybe many would, and have agreed with you. But I do NOT!
The announcers are juvenile douche bags? LOL..... Lawler acts more mature than he ever has. Does this sound familiar to you? "AAAHhhhh PUPPIES!!!" Sure things aren't as they used to be. But, everything evolves and changes. Being that you said you stopped watching, disqualifies you from criticizing today's product. The more I think about this as I am typing. The dumber you sound. DON'T YOU EVER SAY MORRISON WAS IMPERSONATING THE ROCK!!! That is the stupidest thing I have ever read.
If you really watched until 04, you should know who Morrison is. Not only did he win the first Tough Enough, but he was on RAW for quite a while as Johnny Nitro! Randy Orton does not act like a badass. The dude was like Dishonorably Discharged from the military for being a beast. He truly defies authority and had truly been in real life and backstage in WWE what Austin was portraying. Orton is not Austin and I am tired of the comparisons. But, you actually made a lot of Orton fans happy though. Being you supposedly haven't watched in years, and you come in and immediately compare him with Austin. That is something that has been being said for about 6 or more months now.
By the way, dick, Austin WAS acting. His character was a gimmick. He can't really beat everyone up. Sure, his "gimmick" was an extension of his actual self. But more along the lines of how he talked and the beer drinking. As much as we all loved Austin, he had permission to do everything he did to Vince, he didn't really just rebel.
When you started watching wrestling, things weren't much different. If you are comparing things to The Attitude Era, of course it is different. The PG Rating limits what they can do as far as language and content. A "man" of your age should understand that.
What was so great about wrestling (WWF) 20 something years ago, compared to now? You said it seemed more real!!!??? Dude, you were a fuckin' kid, of course it seemed more real and was more compelling to you.
You chose to leave wrestling in the days of HBK, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Triple H, and many many more. Sounds like a fly-by-night fan to begin with. WTF is so great about guys like Greg Valentine? Brutus Beefcake? The Gobbly Gooer?? LOL...... THE BERZERKER????? Lemme hold my wrist and scream, "Hus Hus Hus Hus".... Feel a little more at home, idiot? You talk about not seeing any gimmicks? What do you want to see?? The Powers Of Pain? Demolition??? Bushwackers? Bastion Booger? Doink?? LOL
Don't fuckin' tell me you thought The Repo Man was really gonna come and take your mom and dad's car!!
Sure... There were great wrestlers then. And there still is great wrestlers now. Guys like Curt Hennig and Bret Hart could never be duplicated.
What makes The Miz worse than Bob Backlund? Sgt. Slaughter? Randy Savage? Kevin Nash? The Ultimate Warrior? Sure one could say Backlund was one of the best mat wrestlers ever. But as far as charisma goes, he can't/couldn't hold a candle to Miz. Iron Sheik? LOL come on dude. The Miz is not the worst WWE Champion ever. Hulk Hogan in 02 probably was. Why? Because he really had no business being Champion.
Ok.... Not allowed to say anything bad about Hogan? Really? Ok.... Worst WWE Champ ever..... What was so great about Yokozuna? He was big and fat? LOL not good enough!
You sound as much like a late bloomer as you do a hater. Seems like you are a person that finally realized wrestling was "fake" or scripted as we like to call it, in 04 and quit watching.
Dude, crawl back under the rock (Not Dwayne Johnson) that you came out from. Because we (IWC) do not need or want you here. You are a negative hater that has no business or experience even posting on this site.
I have been a wrestling fan my whole life, and dip shits like you are the reason Vince decided to appeal to children in the first place.
You have garnered a genuine FUCK YOU from me!!!
"Professor" is an off-based name for you and you do NOT deserve a name that is supposed to represent being a teacher of any kind OR possessing any amount of intelligence, especially when it comes to WWE!
WWEIsLife2
Championship Contender
OK im going to chime in here and say for you so-called Longtime Fans who are so dissatisfied with WWE,STOP WATCHING IT. If your that upset with the Product today don't watch it,its that freaking simple. People like Professor who claim to be Fans since god knows when and are just now upset with it need to get a life or something.
Also anyone who complains about the Gimmicks today need to go back and look at the Gimmicks of the 80's and 90's then look at the guys today. Plus the Promos in Wrestling have ALWAYS been Scripted,thats nothing new to me or anyone.
So Professor do your Homework before you come here and and Ranti about stupid garbage.
Also anyone who complains about the Gimmicks today need to go back and look at the Gimmicks of the 80's and 90's then look at the guys today. Plus the Promos in Wrestling have ALWAYS been Scripted,thats nothing new to me or anyone.
So Professor do your Homework before you come here and and Ranti about stupid garbage.
CenaSux4Life78
Pre-Show Stalwart
My only personal issue with the product is how, in the last few years, some guys are pushed to the top way to soon. Yes, some of these guys can handle it, Sheamus as an example. But you get some of these other guys, who really shouldn't even be given shots. I will use Wade Barret as an example.
Yes, Barret is good, and has allot of potential to be a big player in the company. But you can tell, he doesn't have all the right tools just yet. In a year, sure, but not at present moment.
As for Sheamus, yes he was pushed fast, but with good reason. Forget the fact that him and Trip are friends. But he has the believable appearence of being dominate. His mic skills, when he first arrived, lacked. But when he arrived on RAW, it was like a developed skills over night, and keeps getting better.
Im not saying that a good figure, and good mic skills are all thats needed to be either WWE or World Champ. But they do help ALLOT.
I guess, now that I think about it...the Diva division and the Tag divisions are nothing but a joke. The Diva's have not been entertaining since Trish and Lita left. Nobody, in creative, can come up with anything for them to do besides bitch at each other.
There are times I even forget that there is a Tag Title in WWE still. Since there are no real teams anymore. All the good teams are gone, or half gone. Teams like The Dudleys, Edge and Christian, The Hardys, M&M, APA, and so much more.
I love WWE, but yes they are in a sad state. I think its the PG era. But hey, I have no say in what goes on. So all I can do is just either change the channel, or grin and bear it. I choose to grin and bear it.
Yes, Barret is good, and has allot of potential to be a big player in the company. But you can tell, he doesn't have all the right tools just yet. In a year, sure, but not at present moment.
As for Sheamus, yes he was pushed fast, but with good reason. Forget the fact that him and Trip are friends. But he has the believable appearence of being dominate. His mic skills, when he first arrived, lacked. But when he arrived on RAW, it was like a developed skills over night, and keeps getting better.
Im not saying that a good figure, and good mic skills are all thats needed to be either WWE or World Champ. But they do help ALLOT.
I guess, now that I think about it...the Diva division and the Tag divisions are nothing but a joke. The Diva's have not been entertaining since Trish and Lita left. Nobody, in creative, can come up with anything for them to do besides bitch at each other.
There are times I even forget that there is a Tag Title in WWE still. Since there are no real teams anymore. All the good teams are gone, or half gone. Teams like The Dudleys, Edge and Christian, The Hardys, M&M, APA, and so much more.
I love WWE, but yes they are in a sad state. I think its the PG era. But hey, I have no say in what goes on. So all I can do is just either change the channel, or grin and bear it. I choose to grin and bear it.
WWE has no reason to change... They are still profitable, attendance is steady, and RAW is still in the top 15 basic cable rankings. There is no need to take risks when you the company is very stable and there is no threat.
WWE is the NFL of the sports entertainment industry. They are literally THE industry. Just like the NFL. I can't envision any company emerging to take them out. The barriers of entry are just too great. It would take BILLIONS to take down McMahon's empire. The same with the NFL.
WWE is the NFL of the sports entertainment industry. They are literally THE industry. Just like the NFL. I can't envision any company emerging to take them out. The barriers of entry are just too great. It would take BILLIONS to take down McMahon's empire. The same with the NFL.
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