WWE State Of Mind

[fiasco28]

The Recent encounters between HHH and CM PUNK have led me on to something...

HHH dissing Punk for his tattoos and calling Punk a "skinny fat ass" just reminds me of my biggest issue with the WWE... alot of people always said Vince was all about the muscle bound wrestlers, and that is what he he likes the most or at least prefers the most... and it seems like they gotta look squeaky clean and have a marketable wholesome face and image... your Hulk Hogans your John Cena's etc.... yes there are wrestlers who have been an exception to the rule...

HBK to me is the best wrestler to ever be in this ring because he was a flatout entertainer who put on a show, hence the "showstopper" and he wasnt muscle bound cornbread roid fed either..

Undertaker has got to be the most unique wrestler ever, of course for his image and character but... being 6'10 and diving out of a ring and walking on a rope with balance.. was simply amazing, he was not a typical big man or a typical wrestler period

idk, i dont want to keep listing people and elaborating but... Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Macho Man, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Gurrero, its like Vince has had so many examples of like "hey, the real talent is not in a muscle bound wrestler, muscles dont equal superior talent or talent at all really" i never had a problem with Austin or the Rock when they were the guys because... they werent what John Cena and Hulk Hogan were as far as that good wholesome image...

and of course in my opinion, more entertaining.. and for you Hulk fans, im sorry but Hogan, the red and yellow Hogan, was no better than what Cena is right now, as far as that, goodie good model thing... what made Hogan to me was the NWO Hogan, but thats another topic.. Cena is worse by a tad, i dont have a problem with how he wrestles like how most of you do, the whole "5 moves of DOOM" is overrated and jaded to say because... thats really the style and format for WWE wrestling.... im quite sure if Cena was allowed to or even wanted too, he could do more than 5 Moves, although i will bash him for the fact that...

Orton has up his game, hes added more moves, and has just stepped up period.. so it would be nice if Cena at least changed a few moves or something, idk proly wouldnt take away from the fact that he is stale as far as his gimmick..

i guess the point im trying to make is.. seems like CM Punk is at a unfair disadvantage because he's not all muscled up and chizzled and muslce bound, or because the way he looks and the way he's tattooed.. yes Randy Orton has tattoos and is sleeved up, but as much as i hate to admit it, most of the reason why's he's the guy along with Cena, is because of his looks... and im not gonna lie, if i could look like him i would, but at the same time... whats wrong with how CM Punk looks? nothing... but to people like HHH and Vince, there is.. its no secret that Vince loves Cena for how he looks and Vince seems to always want that goodie good look, the only time he didnt was in the attitude era... and even if its not the goodie good thing, its the muscles

if Brock Lesnar wouldnt of never left, he would of been the guy, and even though he could actually wrestle, Vince loved him mostly because he was a muscle bound monster...

anyways seems like Punk will never be the guy, im my opinion mostly because of how he looks and because he's small, and even if its not how his tattoos look.. its because hes not a powerhouse.. and thats what Vince likes, along with the goodie good image because the WWE has mostly been PG, started with Hogan... i think HBK, Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, and even Jericho were exceptions.. but guys like that wont ever be the guy and have that spotlight for that long like how guys like Hogan and Cena do.. so for you lovers of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler(loved this guy) John Morrison, Christian, they wont ever be the guy and wont ever have the glory for long.. it sucks, but at least we know who the real talent is beyond the script..

your thoughts?

 

[keehlnate]

CM Punk IS the guy now. There is no way Vince could not be happier with the ratings Punk is bringing in the WWE. As for the skinny guy, I don't think this is an issue. Well, unlike those muscle bound wrestlers who have used *ehem* drugs.

 

[frostbite2819]

when you list like 4, 5, 6 people and then say they are exceptions, that kind of contradicts the point. the guys you listed were not anomolies, they were a success because they worked hard and earned the respect (whether it be love OR hate) of the fans, they didnt succeed because of OR despite the way they looked.
of course the huge guys ON AVERAGE will receive more oppertunities and in most cases be bigger stars. its WRESTLING.
thats just the way of the business.
HOWEVER, the cream almost always rises to the top in my 25 years of watching.
cm punk EARNED the right to be where he is at right now, as did cena, hbk, hhh, jericho, hogan, etc and etc.

 

[[email protected]]

actually 4,5,6 people does not contradict the point. there have been countless faces in and out the industry.
i see what the original post means, and for the most part i correct.
and no, cm punk is not the guy. not at all.
cm punk is still getting built up and put over by nash and hhh (2 legends).

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Why is it up to the WWE brass' opinion to make Punk "the guy"? It's actually up to Punk, if he draws more than Cena, they'll make him THE guy. He doesn't though, so he's not. Pretty simple. It's not a matter of anyone's opinion but the masses.

Also HHH mocks Punk's tatoos because his tatoos are kinda dorky, but they mean something to him. He calls him "skinny fat ass" because Punk does NOT look like an athlete in the ring, but he's very smart in the ring.

I don't think a promo, which is the opinion of a CHARACTER, no matter how much "shoot" you may think is involved, says anything about the WWE state of mind. Tatoos? Try naming more wrestlers without tatoos.

The whole thing about Vince liking muscle bond guys is pretty much bullshit. How many contradicting examples are there? In fact, Cena is probably the first guy since Hogan to be seen as "muscle bound". Really though, Hogan was balding and didn't have a 6 pack and Cena, as big as he is, looks athletic, not like a "so big I can't wipe my ass" bodybuilder.

Vince pushes guys who might get over, if they get over, he pushes them more. It may seem like more muscle bound guys get the chance but that's a problem you have with the audience's opinion, not Vince's.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

CM Punk IS the guy now. There is no way Vince could not be happier with the ratings Punk is bringing in the WWE. As for the skinny guy, I don't think this is an issue. Well, unlike those muscle bound wrestlers who have used *ehem* drugs.

I can gaurantee you that Cena does not use steroids. He doesn't have back acne or really show any other signs other than he's big. However, his shoulders, wrists, hips, and ankles are HUGE which means his body can pack on more muscle. With as much money and knowledge as he has, he can afford a perfect diet. Just because you can't work hard enough to achieve physical success doesn't mean it's not possible.

If Punk IS the guy, then how come the crowd didn't explode for him vs Miz, or on Smackdown when he would say stuff? Bad audience? John Cena gets the biggest reaction every night, anywhere in the world.

Aaaaaaaand here comes the "BUT TEH CENUZ REAKTUN IS TEH BOOZ SO HE IS TEH SUX" part where someone is going to look like an idiot.

 

[fiasco28]

Why is it up to the WWE brass' opinion to make Punk "the guy"? It's actually up to Punk, if he draws more than Cena, they'll make him THE guy. He doesn't though, so he's not. Pretty simple. It's not a matter of anyone's opinion but the masses.

Also HHH mocks Punk's tatoos because his tatoos are kinda dorky, but they mean something to him. He calls him "skinny fat ass" because Punk does NOT look like an athlete in the ring, but he's very smart in the ring.

I don't think a promo, which is the opinion of a CHARACTER, no matter how much "shoot" you may think is involved, says anything about the WWE state of mind. Tatoos? Try naming more wrestlers without tatoos.

The whole thing about Vince liking muscle bond guys is pretty much bullshit. How many contradicting examples are there? In fact, Cena is probably the first guy since Hogan to be seen as "muscle bound". Really though, Hogan was balding and didn't have a 6 pack and Cena, as big as he is, looks athletic, not like a "so big I can't wipe my ass" bodybuilder.

Vince pushes guys who might get over, if they get over, he pushes them more. It may seem like more muscle bound guys get the chance but that's a problem you have with the audience's opinion, not Vince's.

I agree with most of what you said... but in my opinion, Vince does like the muscles.. no thats not the only thing he likes but.. its most of what he likes. as well as the looks, face etc...you brought up the fact that it may seem like more muscle bound you are, the better your chances are... and to me that is true.. I really feel that its harder for someone like CM punk to make it than someone like John Cena... because of looks and size... maybe im wrong but..

just like how in football, they judge a quarterback that is 5'11 trying to make it way more so than a quarterback that is 6'4... does that make more sense?

 

[fiasco28]

I can gaurantee you that Cena does not use steroids. He doesn't have back acne or really show any other signs other than he's big. However, his shoulders, wrists, hips, and ankles are HUGE which means his body can pack on more muscle. With as much money and knowledge as he has, he can afford a perfect diet. Just because you can't work hard enough to achieve physical success doesn't mean it's not possible.

If Punk IS the guy, then how come the crowd didn't explode for him vs Miz, or on Smackdown when he would say stuff? Bad audience? John Cena gets the biggest reaction every night, anywhere in the world.

Aaaaaaaand here comes the "BUT TEH CENUZ REAKTUN IS TEH BOOZ SO HE IS TEH SUX" part where someone is going to look like an idiot.

i was never saying that Cena does roids, i honestly dont feel that he does... only thing i ever wondered is man... "how the hell is his wrists and forearms so huge"

and no Punk isnt the guy... i feel that he wont be ever.. i think alot of people love him, so in their minds he is the guy because hes there guy... or the IWC guy..

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I agree with most of what you said... but in my opinion, Vince does like the muscles.. no thats not the only thing he likes but.. its most of what he likes. as well as the looks, face etc...you brought up the fact that it may seem like more muscle bound you are, the better your chances are... and to me that is true.. I really feel that its harder for someone like CM punk to make it than someone like John Cena... because of looks and size... maybe im wrong but..

just like how in football, they judge a quarterback that is 5'11 trying to make it way more so than a quarterback that is 6'4... does that make more sense?

That's a perfect analogy. I mean, if you think about it, 95% of successful pro QBs are tall, so if you're a coach and you put more stock into tall QBs, is that really bad? Or is it smart. sure you look at the exceptional smaller ones, but you don't give them all the same chance just for shits. It's no different with the WWE. Vince likes muscular guys because more of them make more money for him.

Even the smaller guys like HBK had a look. I remember a girl in my high school got pregnant (shows you the type of people the tude era attracted) named her kid "shawn michaels whatever" because she was obsessed with him. thought he was "teh secks".

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

punk is a major draw for the male demographic! he's hot right now cena isn't he is loosing his popularity!! wwe needs to capotolise to make punk the man! he is already getting women and girls to chant for him obviously no where near cena and orton! but it's up to wwe to make punk the new badass of the wwe! you know austin was getting no applause untill he stunned vince

 

[The Future Rises]

You make a very good point but CM Punk is getting there. Just wait for him to make a full babyface turn(automatically gaining younger fans) and then he's gonna be just as big as Cena and Orton are.

The important thing is opinion. For example if you really like Daniel Bryan because of his wrestling skills you shouldn't go on a rampage and complain about the WWE not putting him in main events. Just be grateful that you see him wrestle every week on the biggest wrestling company today.

Looks shouldn't be a major factor to real fans at all. But if you're favorite wrestler has a good look then that's a positive. Because that seems to be the main thing Vince focuses on nowadays. The only way you can be a top guy without having the generic 6'4 240 pound good looks is if you pull off something unbelievable like CM Punk did.

 

[flawd101]

you need wrestlers of all sizes. besides twins, most of the wwe superstars have a distinctive look. if you are too plane or look like another wrestler you probably wont last long. big guys dominate a match and little guys hit them with cool moves. big guys getting beat by smaller guys gets the small guy over. big guys dominating little guys makes them look bigger and strong and gets them over. losing the big men will just limit your storytelling potential. dont blame vince for all the things you dont like, it pro-wrestling, you aren't supposed to like every character.

 

[The Perfect Max]

I can gaurantee you that Cena does not use steroids. He doesn't have back acne or really show any other signs other than he's big. However, his shoulders, wrists, hips, and ankles are HUGE which means his body can pack on more muscle. With as much money and knowledge as he has, he can afford a perfect diet. Just because you can't work hard enough to achieve physical success doesn't mean it's not possible.QUOTE]

Really? Really? Really? Edge, Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara. There bodies are far from "perfect" yet in the last five years they have been suspended for using them, including Steroids. People can get big with working out, hell yeah, that is true, but to even think someone the size of Cena must've used something in the past. Just saying,

Anyway, to the original point here, the WWE doesn't make anyone the guy. In my eyes, Stone Cold and The Rock became both one in a billion, yeah. But Stone Cold had more popularity, becoming THE GUY. But, the Stone Cold character was intentionally planned to be the top heel, so it was indeed the FANS that made him the guy. The FANS wanted to see him, i.e. tuning in to Raw and buying Pay-Per-Views.

John Cena. For some odd, odd reason people wanted to see him. And I suppose being "all for the WWE Universe (i.e. kids)" helps a hell of a lot. I don't remember people shaving their heads and dressing as Stone Cold. The FANS wanted to do this.

CM Punk. I truly believe this was intended to turn CM Punk into a monster heel, i.e., oh my god he just stole the WWE Championship. But, because people have found a "badass" and a man who is on TV just as much as Cena, they have turned to him, who they now think is god, i.e. me, and will continue to buy merchandise and support him. Look at the "Best in the World" shirt. That sold out in what, an hour I believe. The FANS made him the new guy. Thank god.

 

[drk_knight]

come to think of it, vince seems kinda gay lol.

But seriously, you ppl make it seem as if punk is rey mysterio.
Punk is pretty cut up, and he is pretty much as tall as Cena. His body is made for fighting just like guys in the ufc.
I can say this without a doubt, Punk has one of the most realistic movesets ever. His strikes will fuck anybody up in real life. I rekon he could kick alot of the other wrestlers asses, big or small, past or present.

If Punk was a high flyer, and his finishing move was the 619, then I would agree with you all. But Punk has a background in Mma, making it believeable when hes kicking ass.

Mark my words, "Punk will one day, be as big as Austin"

 

[Nada]

Vince's obsession with "big guys" is likely due to fact that when he was a young man, working under his father, those are the kind of guys who were draws back then. Because back then you didnt have that many men who looked like action figurines.

Vince cannot shake that fetish off, however the world has moved on, today you can find guys like that in real life, you might even be related to someone who really is huge with massive amounts of muscles, it simply isent that special anymore, they are no longer special attractions but just everyday people.

Its the same deal with the diva's division and womens wrestling, it used to be a draw when Baywatch was the hottest thing on TV, why was it the hottest thing on TV? Guess why, it wasent the storylines or David Hasslehoff that is for sure. Yet WWE as a whole is stuck in what used to draw viewers in, as oppose to what will draw them in now.

How succesfull would a show like Baywatch be in 2011? I doubt it would even reach 5% of its mid 90s popularity because things have changed so much.


And that is just the gist of WWE and what kind of product we have gotten since 2001, one foot is in the past, the other foot is hovering above the ground, unsure as to where to stand or how to advance, we the viewers are inbetween, looking up at the crotch and its not a pretty sight

 

[Dusty Roids]

Also CM Punk is not skinny-fat. Skinny fat is someone who's skinny with a more than average fat percentage. Those jokes are easy for HHH to make as Punk in fact does not look that athletic in comparison to Cena or Orton for example. But then again let's not talk about HHH's roid abuse. In fact for a bodybuilder triple h also kind of looks like he has too much of fat. And by the way I don;t get it why people say Punk is a small guy. He's average like michaels was in prime.

 

[Mike D]

Punk brings ratings???? Are you serious? LOL the ratings have been the worst ever since his "promo". #2... all those guys the initial poster mentioned...angle, jericho, punk, stone cold, the rock (with the worst gynocomastia EVER) ALL USED STEROIDS... TONS OF THEM.. yes cena too...by the boat loads.. if you dont believe me spend some time out in venice california Golds Gym and ask some of his Gym "friends" LOL. the fact is all wrestlers, from funaki (who failed the drug test) to ultimate warrior use steroids.. probably all as much or more as warrior. Just cause a guy lik punk LOOKS like hell in a hand basket doesn't mean they don't use drugs. Remember UMAGA failed the wellness for STEROIDS,

Dusty (above)..hate to break it to ya but Michaels used more steroids than them allllll