The Art Of Turning Face

[Low_Ki]

Now I may get ridiculed senseless for this, as, to my absolute shame, I have not fully done my research.

I watch WWE TV now and again, but I always keep up with what is happening via the web.

From the last two months, I have seen the Miz and Alberto Del Rio turning face for what appears to be absolutely no reason at all. Del Rio helped with a run in by 3MB on the Miz and Ricardo, and I can't even remember how the Miz turned.

I guess my point is, face turns need to be memorable in order to take that wrestler onto the next platform of their careers.

It also needs meaning. Not just something that was thrown together at the last minute, and if that is not true for the above two guys, it certainly feels like it. When John Cena turned face, people were psyched for it. Coming into the Survivor Series he was set to join the heel team (A-Train and others I don't remember) and because he gained a small issue with A-Train, he joined the face team at the last minute and the place went crazy for it. I was happy too because he has REASON. He had been jerked around by A-Train and in the story he felt like his input didn't matter.

I'm not saying that every face turn needs a solid story, it just needs to have logic.

What are your thoughts on this subject? Could the WWE do more in promoting a face turn through a story that spans longer than two weeks?

 

[Dyscord]

I beleive the Survivor Series match kinda helped Miz turn face. But yeah, they weren't really given a reason. The last time I saw a good face turn was Batista back in 2005. It was a nice, slow burn.

 

[brighamosity]

I was talking about this the other day with someone while watching Raw. We couldn't figure out why we were supposed to be cheering Miz. I mean, he wanted to join the heel Survivor Series team, and they declined, so he join Mick Foley's team, and now he's good. That's it. The fans are just supposed to accept that.

Quite frankly, it wouldn't have surprised me one bit if Alberto Del Rio had showed up on Raw and been high fiving John Cena or something. If you're waiting for an explanation for a face turn, I wouldn't hold your breath, because I doubt they're going to give us one. As far as WWE is concerned, the run-in save for Ricardo Rodriguez is enough for WWE logic.

 

[DANIELBRYANrealwrestler]

I mean, he wanted to join the heel Survivor Series team, and they declined, so he join Mick Foley's team, and now he's good. the run-in save for Ricardo Rodriguez is enough for WWE logic.

Actually the Miz quit team Punk and critized his leadership.Also why cheer Miz? Because hes awesome. And as for Del Rio, alot of fans enjoy Ricardo, and hate 3MB even more.

 

[xavyer]

The Miz turned face because of CM Punk, when a fight broke down, CM Punk and Paul Heyman walked away from their teammates, and the Miz called them up on it, and that is what got the Miz to turn on CM Punk's team and join team Foley, as for a good face turn, i haven't seen a good one in years, now people switch sides for basicly no reason at all......

 

[ITrippedTheShockmaster]

I agree that the face turns for Miz and ADR have been pretty quick and without reasoning within the storyline world, but there's reasons for both behind the scenes.

Miz has been poised for a face turn for some time now. He's been the media darling of WWE in recent months, appearing on everything he can possibly stick his face on in terms of TV and such. He's very personable and has a edgy, cool kind of attitude, which makes him likeable. They've softened his character in recent months, which hinted that a turn was evident. Plus, it's been said that VKM is very happy with Miz's efforts to be that public face for WWE (let's face it. Cena and Punk won't be here forever). Miz has been a heel since he started, and he's been a great heel. But, honestly, his shtick as a heel was getting kind of stale. The way they turned him was kind of lame, I admit. I wish they would have made it a bit more progressive of a turn.

As far as ADR's turn, that one strikes me as more unrealistic. Behind the scenes, it's been reported that he was turned because WWE wanted a reliable Mexican superstar to serve as a face for that large demographic of viewers, mainly because both Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara are constantly injured, and Primo and Epico just aren't that good. They were apparently on short notice to turn ADR somehow, so they wrote in the 3MB attack on Ricardo and ADR making the save (even though ADR has berated and assaulted Ricardo in the past), teaming him with Miz to apparently solidify Miz's face turn and begin ADR's. I admit that ADR's aristocrat character isn't one to be a traditional "good guy," per say, but I don't mind him turning face. I don't see this turn lasting long, however. I just hope they don't bury him in mid- to lower-card feuds just to have an active token Mexican good guy.

I also agree that we haven't see a true character turn from heel to face in a longtime, because the line is so blurred nowadays between the two designations. You don't really have many characters that are truly a face or heel. Everyone seems to walk that line, tipping to one direction or the other every now and then. I've posted in other threads about this concept, so I won't go into it here.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

I'm not saying that every face turn needs a solid story, it just needs to have logic.

Yeah, I feel the same way...

You could say that Danyel Bryan is a face now and i really liked storyline with that. Odd together tag team that overcomes personal differences and makes a good face tag team. Nothing that hasnt been done before but maked sense at the moment and really had some storyline behind it.

With Miz and Del Rio its just generic and has no explenation. Del Rio defended Ricardo and all of the sudden he makes face tag teams with Miz to beat 3MB. Completlly out of the character. I get it why they turned them(both of them was needed change in character because Miz becomed just bland and Del Rio hasnt got over with such ans easy heel gimmick(rich guy)) but I just dont see that all of sudden changes in character. Lacks at least some kind of logic for that big change...

 

[pharrison0scorpion]

I believe the Miz turned face because the WWE Universe voted him into Team Foley, so he started to appreciate them more.

But, to the point, I can think of a couple of good face turns. CM Punk last year for one, left as a heel once he won the WWE Championship at Money in the Bank (although he was kind of a face already), and returned as a face because everyone was itching for him to be back.

Daniel Bryan and Kane, with the Anger Management skits were quality face turns. It was a slow process with them gradually turning over weeks. Even though they are faces now, Daniel Bryan could switch back at any time if Team Hell No split and Kane becomes the face.

For me, the Del Rio face turn was actually OK. Yes, it was a little out of the blue, but he was standing up for his heritage of being Mexican which I think could work if done correctly. They also have kind of teased it for a while with the commentators referencing his links to Mil Mascaras and his wrestling heritage. If they play it right, it could work well. (On a side note, someone said WWE wanted a Mexican face but Primo and Epico weren't good enough, which is true but Primo and Epico are from Puerto Rico so they don't count.)

Face turns in general for me are not as effective as heel turns because fans are far more likely to hate someone than like someone. The instinct is to not like them until they make you like them, rather than the other way around. For this reason, faces who make a sudden attack on someone else get instantly booed, but someone who was a heel and shakes someone's hand after a match does not instantly get cheered. Instead, people are thinking whether the guy is being genuine, and whether or not it's just part of a plot. Face turns are never going to be as memorable as heel turns, but personally, I feel the WWE is OK at doing them for the time being.

 

[MasterHavik]

What can ADR do as a face is my question? Why turn him face? I don't see myself cheering for ADR. His face turn came out nowhere. I agree with the OP.

Now the Miz on the other hand face turn came at the right time because people were really getting into his heel chaarcter and gimmick. so when he finally flip the switch people went nuts.

but like every wrestler got mega over wit ha face everyone will trash on their face skills and beg them to turn heel again.

 

[Mustang Sally]

As far as ADR's turn, that one strikes me as more unrealistic. Behind the scenes, it's been reported that he was turned because WWE wanted a reliable Mexican superstar to serve as a face for that large demographic of viewers, mainly because both Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara are constantly injured, and Primo and Epico just aren't that good.

Okay, I'll buy that as a motive to turn Alberto good, but they should have had a program explaining why he's being brought to the side of justice, especially after his WWE career has been one of unbridled evil. He sees himself as aristocracy and flaunts his wealth and breeding. There's nothing "face" about that, is there?

Yet, in the world of pro wrestling, anything can be accomplished, given good writing and circumstances. I still say if they could successfully turn Sheamus into a hero, they could do it with anyone.

But with Del Rio, there was absolutely nothing. One day, he's fighting as a heel....the next day he's with the good guys. No reason, no motivation, no change-of-heart event.

When they do this kind of thing with a mid-carder, no one really cares. For example, Tyson Kidd has appeared as a heel and face, depending on who his opponent was that night. I didn't see anyone making a fuss about that....but when it's a guy who hovers near main event status, like Alberto Del Rio, one would think management would have made a bigger deal out of it, for storyline purposes, if nothing else.

The art of turning face? Sure, it's an art and it's one's own opinion whether the program that causes the performer to turn is a good one or not.

But when there's no program......ugh.

 

[Caladbolg]

Actually the best face turn in the last few years was Sheamus' turn. It was to face the unstopable Mark Henry when he run out of oponents. It was well done imo.

 

[thebarber]

so is this a topic,. a discussion or just an opinion??????

Randy Savage turning at Wrestlemania 7 post match was a classic and done to perfection, where both men left the match looking like a WINNER.

 

[Slash-LN]

There are already threads about Miz and Del Rio turning but I'll play along.

The turns came out of nowhere and there wasn't much build up. It makes it annoying and confusing.
If you're going to turn someone there should be a story there. So Miz was on team Foley and we're all of a sudden supposed to cheer for him?
Ricardo gets picked on and Del Rio comes out to help him and we're supposed to cheer him now?
I'm not buying it.
Give us more meaning. Miz has been heel for a few years. All of that is going to be undone in one night?
Del Rio has been arrogant and acted like he was better than everyone. One segment is going to undo all of that?
I'm not buying it.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

and I can't even remember how the Miz turned.

For those who forgot, The Miz TECHNICALLY turned face on the Smackdown after he was voted onto Team Foley in his hometown after a MizTV segment where he would go on to team with Orton later in the night & get his first face pop (still his loudest to date & that was his hometown. Not a good sign).
[Both the MizTV segment & tag match are BluRay exclusives for Survivor Series 2012]

While I definately agree with you, I think your frustration might be one I've had in the past & that's not just in the art of turning face but in "the art of turning".

That's one of the main things that's always bugged me with Cena. He wins his first WWE title as some Vanilla Ice, Wigger type thug with his 'Chaingang' & then he goes to RAW to become poster boy & then all of a sudden his "life long passion for hip-hop" was nowehere near apparent as his passion to make money & he just becomes some standup citizen, military-esque, Army loving goody-two-shoes next door?! WHAT?!

That's why for example I thought Daniel Bryan's heel turn wasn't done perfectly but it was a long transition over time & now I only remember all the good moments I enjoyed.

The WWE universe doesn't forget much of anything but when WWE does something so spur of the moment & illogical (& usually bad) it sticks out & even the casual fans don't seem to 'hop on board'. So even if it's not done in the best way, I think any longer transition where the talent has on-screen time to slowly develop & change is the best way to 'turn'. Because IMO 9/10 if a story or program is longer people are more likely to remember it, more people become familiar with the story & pick something out of it they enjoy. When things are done too fast, are not memorable & are illogical it's more likely to leave a bad taste in the viewers mouth.

 

[StunningBlackMamba24]

But, to the point, I can think of a couple of good face turns. CM Punk last year for one, left as a heel once he won the WWE Championship at Money in the Bank (although he was kind of a face already), and returned as a face because everyone was itching for him to be back.

Daniel Bryan and Kane, with the Anger Management skits were quality face turns. It was a slow process with them gradually turning over weeks. Even though they are faces now, Daniel Bryan could switch back at any time if Team Hell No split and Kane becomes the face.

For me, the Del Rio face turn was actually OK. Yes, it was a little out of the blue, but he was standing up for his heritage of being Mexican which I think could work if done correctly. They also have kind of teased it for a while with the commentators referencing his links to Mil Mascaras and his wrestling heritage. If they play it right, it could work well. (On a side note, someone said WWE wanted a Mexican face but Primo and Epico weren't good enough, which is true but Primo and Epico are from Puerto Rico so they don't count.)

Face turns in general for me are not as effective as heel turns because fans are far more likely to hate someone than like someone. The instinct is to not like them until they make you like them, rather than the other way around. For this reason, faces who make a sudden attack on someone else get instantly booed, but someone who was a heel and shakes someone's hand after a match does not instantly get cheered. Instead, people are thinking whether the guy is being genuine, and whether or not it's just part of a plot. Face turns are never going to be as memorable as heel turns, but personally, I feel the WWE is OK at doing them for the time being.

I totally agree with you up here^ but Kane was actually a face before he gotten into an anger management program with Bryan. Kane turned face before MITB, but on to my point.

Have you guys not forgotten CM Punks memorable face turn from last year? I really enjoyed it. As he left a tweener, and came back a face. After he made his mind blown heel promo on the RAW Roulette episode, No one had expected at all in the coming weeks he would turn face. And boom, 2011 was the year of CM Punk. WWE's gotta think it out with Alberto Del Rio, cuz I think The miz is doing just fine. But I also heard from articles that WWE is gonna have Del Rio a heel again, and "pretend it never happened" with the face turn.

Also, I don't know if u guys had forgotten, but Chris Jericho over in the summer had a HUGE Face turn. He had been one of the top heels in the WWE for 4 years. I really enjoyed this face turn cuz the heel got really old, but who didnt miss Y2J? His face turn took 2-3 weeks to build. With the program he had with Dolph Ziggler, I thought that was brilliant. But the think that kinda sucked though was taking it to far, and having him leave the WWE, when he was getting more charisma and hyped up. Plus his hair, which I think is unusual to talk about, did not really fit him at all.

But anyways that face turn was really good.

WWE Should continue with The Miz, but WWE needs more heels, but at the same time need top faces, as Punk and Show turned heel. Turn del rio a heel, he doesnt fit a face, and have someone like CM Punk who will eventually turn face into the next year, turn face in the next few months. This heel turn was all about having a feud with Stone Cold, but how is that gonna happen? Push Damien Sandow into the main event picture, as Wade Barrett too, as the top heels.

 

[HBsam31]

Miz's face turn I didn't mind so much. The fans did vote him to team Foley, and he did quit team Punk. I admit it was a weak turn, but there were some events that lead to it at least. I have been scratching my head about ADR since it happened. There was no real reason on tv for it at all. He just saved Ricardo, and boom we are supposed to cheer for him. I was trying to think of some ways heels were turned face in the past, and finally rising up against the heel manager is one that comes to mind a lot. I have to admit that is an easy way to turn face that they can't really use today due to the obvious lack of managers. Another poster mentioned Batista's face turn. That is the textbook way of turning face, and it was great. A slow build and the crowd just erupted when he finally attacked HHH. I wanted to end this with a good way that they could have turned ADR face, but I am having trouble coming up with one. I understand the WWE wanting to have a strong Mexican face, but this turn just seemed to happen way to fast for me.

 

[I Heart Cena]

ADR isn't a face anymore. Tonight he will run Santa over, then face John Cena in the main event.

The best face turns are when the fans are begging for it, like The Rock in 1998 and 1999. The fans must dictate who turns what, then you give it to them.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Miz and Del Rio turning babyface has been terrible. At least with Miz, you could see it coming.

Del Rio's "turn" came out of nowhere. I'm not convinced he's actually turning face, but I also have no idea where his recent babyface actions came from. It didn't make any sense.

Miz just doesn't fit, and no one cares. He isn't a likable guy.

The best face turns are those that seem organic. Steve Austin and Randy Orton are the two best examples. You can't expect that all of the time, so manufactured turns are necessary. But at least have them make sense from time to time.

 

[J-sin]

The 2 best Face turns I remember were Batista and John Cena. As for the subject of Turning Face with no storyline or explanation it reminds me of the night after the whole WCW/ECW invasion angle ended. Stone Cold came out and he was the old Texas Rattlesnake again and we were all supposed to act as if the whole year and a half before that night (when SCSA was the top heel not to mention the leader of WCW/ECW) was just a figment of our imagination.
Also to a lesser extent (because it was an emergency last minute decision) was when Batista had to vacate his title, Kurt Angle won the championship Battle Royal and all of a sudden he went from being the Anti-American A$$hole, always bagging out the US troops, he even had Daivari as a side kick. Next thing u know, he was the All-American Hero again.

 

[theBec2101]

The miz to me doesn’t not come off as a face, just someone that is annoying with a microphone. I don’t like him either way. He is pretty much carried through every match and in every "miz tv" interview he does.
R-truths face turn was pretty good, at least entertaining. Kane and D. Bryan was really good aswell. I think it depends on the person themselves and if they are able to get their character over. Some people can just do it like Jericho he just shows up and we think he's face till he basically has to tell us he isn’t.

 

[thekooljt]

This is a very interesting topic. I feel that some heels should never turn face. But there are rare occasions where heels become so popular, that their face turn goes unnoticed (Roddy Piper, Stone Cold, etc). As far as Miz and ADR I am not convinced they could be good faces. As someone pointed out earlier you should build heel to become a face. For example the WWE can definitely build a face turn around Jack Swagger and have him feud with Antonio Cesaro for the United States Title (the timing is right now is perfect).

 

[BC1978]

sometimes a face turn foreshadows a Championship Change. I think Rock is taking the title from Punk but if that doesn't happen how much longer can we see Punk feud with Cena or Ryback? Hell if Rocky takes the title from Punk will the Rock be a face or heel?

Or maybe they were flipped to feud with Ziggler.

 

[enviousdominous]

Here's the thing, crowds are fucking unpredictable.

The crowd cheered with joy when Sid eliminated Hogan from the 1991 Royal Rumble, they were sick of Hogan and wanted a new face to rally behind. By they, I mean that particular group of people at that time.

The WWE isn't very creative. Becoming a face is a matter of having petty differences with a prominent heel, it doesn't matter if you're interesting or talented. Just look at The Undertaker.

Ideally, your character would only have a complete paradigm shift in reaction to a spectacular event. This concept, being too deep for the fucking morons at WWE, is abandoned for the idea that someone changed their tone for absolutely no fucking reason.

The idea of being a heel is equally pathetic in terms of the creative energy invested.

Basically Vince or one of his cronies likes you, but the crowd thinks you're a goofy red head half-assing a hackneyed move set from more talented athletes. Thus, you go out there as a heel. This way when people boo you for being fucking horrible, you can attribute that to your character getting under their skin with his dastardly ways.




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