Summer Olympics 2012 LD

[Барбоса]

The idea of amateurs being the cornerstone of the Olympics died decades ago. The growth of sport in general has seen to that.

As for basketball, I could see a similar rule brought in for it as in the football tournament, which states that you can only have three players over 23 in your squad.

 

[Slyfox696]

See, I don't accept that the Olympics are a competition for the best in the world

Well, that was their original intent...

When one team beats another team by 83 points, safe to say, there's a fundamental problem.

Nigeria had pro basketball players. Just because their pros aren't as good as ours, there's something wrong?

Do you feel the same way about Michael Phelps? I mean, he's clearly better than "random swimmer Q", should he be disqualified too? He's made plenty of money from swimming, some say he'll be worth around $100 million dollars at some point in his life (I believe that's what I read). Should Michael Phelps also be disqualified from the Olympics because he's so good?

I think it is unfair to refer to the other guys as inferior athletes.

But that's what they are.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Well, that was their original intent...

Perhaps before the discrepancy between amateur and professional became so vast. And original intent is one thing, but the Olympics have had to evolve with the times over the years, and I think when the margin of victory is 83 points, it might be time to re-examine things.

Nigeria had pro basketball players. Just because their pros aren't as good as ours, there's something wrong?

So how many players from Nigeria play professionally in the most famous, and most lucrative, professional basketball league? Of course there's something wrong, Slyfox. 83 things wrong. It would be nice if the outcome of a contest in the Olympics wasn't decided before the end of the first quarter.

Do you feel the way about Michael Phelps? I mean, he's clearly better than "random swimmer Q", should he be disqualified too? He's made plenty of money from swimming, some say he'll be worth around $100 million dollars at some point in his life (I believe that's what I read). Should Michael Phelps also be disqualified from the Olympics because he's so good?

Come on now, not the same thing at all and you know it. Phelps has been dominant and deserves every accolade he has earned. But he does face stiff competition, most notably from his teammate Lochte. He's winning races by fractions of seconds. As soon as someone like Phelps begins winning races such as a 400m race while his competition is still at the 300m mark, then we will have have a better analogy. At least when Phelps races, the outcome is never a foregone conclusion and is competitive. 153-73, not so much.

And I'll plead ignorance here. You talk about Phelps being worth 100 million dollars. Do you mean currently, or money he will amass after his amateur days are over? I'm not sure if it is accurate to suggest that swimmers and professional basketball players are comparable. I would have no problem with Phelps transforming his amateur success into a financial windfall after his amateur days are over. But LeBron and Kobe are doing it right now.

 

[Slyfox696]

Perhaps before the discrepancy between amateur and professional became so vast. And original intent is one thing, but the Olympics have had to evolve with the times over the years, and I think when the margin of victory is 83 points, it might be time to re-examine things.

Why? Why are we punishing excellence?

I'm not understanding your viewpoint. Why do you want to support mediocrity and suppress excellence?

So how many players from Nigeria play professionally in the most famous, and most lucrative, professional basketball league?

A couple have/do. But I don't understand what your statement has to do with anything.

So because we have a superior sports culture in basketball, the entire world is not allowed to send their superior athletes to the Olympics?

It would be nice if the outcome of a contest in the Olympics wasn't decided before the end of the first quarter.

And it won't be when the Americans play teams like Spain. Just because Nigeria was terrible, doesn't mean every other country is terrible.

Basketball is HUGE in America. America has roughly TWICE as many people in it as Nigeria does. America is a first world country. We SHOULD beat a team like Nigeria badly.

Come on now, not the same thing at all and you know it. Phelps has been dominant and deserves every accolade he has earned.

It's EXACTLY the same thing. Team USA has been dominant and deserves every accolade it has ever earned.

But he does face stiff competition, most notably from his teammate Lochte.

And Americans didn't capture gold in the 04 Olympics or the 06 FIBA World Championships. They're expected to face tough competition against Spain.

He's winning races by fractions of seconds.

And Team USA beat Spain by 11 points after a hard fought game in 2008.

As soon as someone like Phelps begins winning races such as a 400m race while his competition is still at the 300m mark, then we will have have a better analogy. At least when Phelps races, the outcome is never a foregone conclusion and is competitive. 153-73, not so much.

Umm, your comparison is flawed.

While Phelps may be beating Lochte (or whomever) by fractions of a second, he's beating the LAST place swimmers by several seconds, which in swimming is like 153-73.

And I'll plead ignorance here. You talk about Phelps being worth 100 million dollars. Do you mean currently, or money he will amass after his amateur days are over? I'm not sure if it is accurate to suggest that swimmers and professional basketball players are comparable. I would have no problem with Phelps transforming his amateur success into a financial windfall after his amateur days are over. But LeBron and Kobe are doing it right now.

Michael Phelps is already worth a lot of money, solely because of his success in swimming.

 

[Барбоса]

Pretty certain Phelps does not really count as an amateur. He has multi-million dollar endorsement deals

 

[Remix]

Come on now, not the same thing at all and you know it. Phelps has been dominant and deserves every accolade he has earned. But he does face stiff competition, most notably from his teammate Lochte. He's winning races by fractions of seconds. As soon as someone like Phelps begins winning races such as a 400m race while his competition is still at the 300m mark, then we will have have a better analogy. At least when Phelps races, the outcome is never a foregone conclusion and is competitive. 153-73, not so much.

Ok then, look at the tennis. Maria Sharapova is the highest paid woman's sportswoman/athlete full stop. Serena Williams crushed former world number 1 Caroline Wozniaki 6-0 6-3 hot on the heels of winning Wimbledon without too much difficulty and has won more grand slams than the rest of the women still in the tournament put together. It's worse on the male's side because nobody outside the top three has won a grand slam since 2005, with nobody outside the top 4 competing in a final since 2010. Three of them make up the current semi finals, with Rafa Nadal being the sole absentee because he's injured. Professional athletes make up the core of the Olympics in any sport, and in those other sports they are dominated by a small number of athletes.

And I'll plead ignorance here. You talk about Phelps being worth 100 million dollars. Do you mean currently, or money he will amass after his amateur days are over? I'm not sure if it is accurate to suggest that swimmers and professional basketball players are comparable. I would have no problem with Phelps transforming his amateur success into a financial windfall after his amateur days are over. But LeBron and Kobe are doing it right now.

This is money that'll be given to him for just showing up in adverts for Gillette or whoever his 11 current sponsors are.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Why? Why are we punishing excellence?

I'm not understanding your viewpoint. Why do you want to support mediocrity and suppress excellence?

I'm not suggesting we punish or suppress excellence. I'm suggesting we level the playing field by having the best amateur athletes from one country play against the top amateur athletes from another. Let the professional athletes reap their just rewards, to the tunes of millions of dollars, while the very best amateurs, who are hardly mediocre, get to showcase their talents to the world on their own stage. Because many of them won't get another stage to display their excellence.

A couple have/do. But I don't understand what your statement has to do with anything.

So because we have a superior sports culture in basketball, the entire world is not allowed to send their superior athletes to the Olympics?

A couple of athletes, versus an entire team of them.

And I have no problem with the entire world sending superior athletes to the Games. Superior amateur athletes.

And it won't be when the Americans play teams like Spain. Just because Nigeria was terrible, doesn't mean every other country is terrible.

My guess is that when the American play a team like Spain, it will be far more competitive. But I'm certain it will still be a double digit victory. Just ask the French.

Basketball is HUGE in America. America has roughly TWICE as many people in it as Nigeria does. America is a first world country. We SHOULD beat a team like Nigeria badly.

Admittedly an excellent point, can't find fault with this statement.

It's EXACTLY the same thing. Team USA has been dominant and deserves every accolade it has ever earned.

No denying their dominance, but it's been a case of men versus boys. Professional athletes from the top league in the world, kicking the asses of inferior talent. Hardly anything to be proud of, or to be celebrated in the spirit of the Olympics.

And Americans didn't capture gold in the 04 Olympics or the 06 FIBA World Championships. They're expected to face tough competition against Spain.

And both were monumental upsets. And I'm sure Spain will be far tougher competition than Nigeria. Who knows, they may even keep the margin of victory to single digits. Maybe.

While Phelps may be beating Lochte (or whomever) by fractions of a second, he's beating the LAST place swimmers by several seconds, which in swimming is like 153-73.

Excellent point, I hadn't really looked at it that way. But let's face it, if the USA plays anywhere near their potential, there isn't a country who can play the Lochte to their Phelps.

Michael Phelps is already worth a lot of money, solely because of his success in swimming.

But there's a big difference in earning endorsement money because of his swimming prowess, versus playing in a professional league (plus endorsements). It's not like Phelps competes in a professional swimming league, then puts his career on hold to thump the amateurs, and then resumes his lucrative career. You simply cannot compare something like swimming to basketball.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm sorry, I just don't understand why you would want to exclude the best athletes in the world, simply because they are good enough to be paid to do what they do. Just because they are better than everyone else is not a good enough reason, to me, to exclude them from participating in the Olympics.

 

[Alastor]

There is always the youth Olympics for those that want 'amateurs' type of competition even though most are already training like pros by that age. It is like a sneak preview of future champions when most are not at their peaks yet.

Shouldn't we be satisfied with the Olympics being the recognition of sporting excellence instead of trying to tweak it to have an illusion of competitiveness for TV audiences? Leave those kind of attitude to the professional leagues.

Anyway I'm surprised at the lack of discussion on the media's attack on the China girl who broke records. If she was not Chinese the headlines would have been similar to Phelps or Bolt in Beijing. Shameful and baseless attacks. (I might be proven wrong in 4 years with new drug testing procedures though. )

 

[Slyfox696]

There is always the youth Olympics for those that want 'amateurs' type of competition even though most are already training like pros by that age. It is like a sneak preview of future champions when most are not at their peaks yet.

Shouldn't we be satisfied with the Olympics being the recognition of sporting excellence instead of trying to tweak it to have an illusion of competitiveness for TV audiences? Leave those kind of attitude to the professional leagues.

Anyway I'm surprised at the lack of discussion on the media's attack on the China girl who broke records. If she was not Chinese the headlines would have been similar to Phelps or Bolt in Beijing. Shameful and baseless attacks. (I might be proven wrong in 4 years with new drug testing procedures though. )

When she's swimming faster legs of races than the men, I'm not sure if "baseless" is the word to use. But, if there hasn't been any proof, it's hard to call her a cheater.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Just finished watching a re-broadcast of Gabby Douglas winning her gold medal in women's gymnastics. It's so enjoyable watching an elite amateur athlete showcasing her talents on the grandest stage of all, to win the Olymic gold medal and all that accompanies it.

No mediocrity. No suppression of talent. No punishing of excellence. Just the culmination of years of blood, sweat, and tears, and the propulsion of the best amateur athlete to the forefront. The prototype of the Olympic ideal.

 

[Slyfox696]

Just finished watching a re-broadcast of Gabby Douglas winning her gold medal in women's gymnastics. It's so enjoyable watching an elite amateur athlete showcasing her talents on the grandest stage of all, to win the Olymic gold medal and all that accompanies it.

No mediocrity. No suppression of talent. No punishing of excellence. Just the culmination of years of blood, sweat, and tears, and the propulsion of the best amateur athlete to the forefront. The prototype of the Olympic ideal.

Yes, but the Americans were so dominant over the competition, I think we need to find a way to make sure they aren't so dominant in the future.

I got it! Let's create a rule that only lets TWO Americans compete in the individual gymnastics competition. That way Americans can't dominate the competition. After all, the last thing we want is for one country to to be so clearly superior to athletes from other countries.

How do you feel about that?

 

[Gelgarin]

Doesn't a rule to that effect already exist?

 

[Slyfox696]

Doesn't a rule to that effect already exist?

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=4036309&postcount=61


hatehabs will understand.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Yes, but the Americans were so dominant over the competition, I think we need to find a way to make sure they aren't so dominant in the future.

I got it! Let's create a rule that only lets TWO Americans compete in the individual gymnastics competition. That way Americans can't dominate the competition. After all, the last thing we want is for one country to to be so clearly superior to athletes from other countries.

How do you feel about that?

Hey, I've got no problem with one country being dominant over the others, as long as there's an even playing field which features the best of the best in terms of amateur athletics. At least going into today's competition, the conclusion was unknown, the drama was intense, and the most deserving athlete won. Hopefully she'll translate her success into a profitable future. That is, of course, once she leaves the amateur ranks.

Kidding aside, how about the class shown by Jordan Wieber through all of this? She could have been a sullen poor sport who did not support her teammates, focusing solely on her personal disappointment, but she was anything but. A really impressive class act if you ask me. No one in that stadium was cheering any louder for the American team than she was, and I thought that was classy and superb.

 

[Slyfox696]

Hey, I've got no problem with one country being dominant over the others, as long as there's an even playing field which features the best of the best

Great, then you can enjoy Team USA basketball like the rest of us now.

Kidding aside, how about the class shown by Jordan Wieber through all of this? She could have been a sullen poor sport who did not support her teammates, focusing solely on her personal disappointment, but she was anything but. A really impressive class act if you ask me. No one in that stadium was cheering any louder for the American team than she was, and I thought that was classy and superb.

I haven't watched it, but it's good to hear that's how she chose to react to the situation.

 

[hatehabsforever]

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=4036309&postcount=61


hatehabs will understand.

Oh don't worry, I got it, I got it. Funny guy.

Isn't that sort of irrelevant to the discussion, though? And if anything, doesn't that add credence to what I am saying? Sometimes the rules need to be modified to minimize dominance on one side of the athletic equation. The Russians used to dominate gymnastics, so they took steps to keep this somewhat in check. And if Men's Basketball is going to continue to be dominated by professionals, maybe steps need to be taken. Such as telling the professionals to stay at home in their mansions while they drive around in their Ferrari's. Or at least restrict their numbers in some way? You know, to keep some sort of semblance of an actual competitive event.

 

[Alastor]

When she's swimming faster legs of races than the men, I'm not sure if "baseless" is the word to use. But, if there hasn't been any proof, it's hard to call her a cheater.

Her time was still many seconds off of the men's. It is baseless because her drug tests has been negatives so far. I'm not saying she's 100% clean because from experience we know there are numerous ways to cheat detection, but the way the media reacted was really pathetic. If she wasn't Chinese, the headlines would have been "wow a girl can swim faster than a guy" instead of 'interesting result".

Isn't that sort of irrelevant to the discussion, though? And if anything, doesn't that add credence to what I am saying? Sometimes the rules need to be modified to minimize dominance on one side of the athletic equation. The Russians used to dominate gymnastics, so they took steps to keep this somewhat in check. And if Men's Basketball is going to continue to be dominated by professionals, maybe steps need to be taken. Such as telling the professionals to stay at home in their mansions while they drive around in their Ferrari's. Or at least restrict their numbers in some way? You know, to keep some sort of semblance of an actual competitive event.

It's not Team USA's fault that they are more talented at Basketball than the majority of the world. There are other sports where a single country has a monopoly of the medals too. Short of making age restriction similar to soccer, there isn't anything else to do. And we know how NBA players feel about those plans to remove Olympic gold medalist from their advertising resume. lol The only reason soccer is able to do what it does is because of the power of FIFA and the World Cup. Basketball's own world championship just don't have the same prestige as Soccer's world cup so basketball players identify the Olympics as the showcase event for the sports every 4 years.

 

[#1Peep]

Wow, did anyone just see the Japanese hurdler who did his hammie early on in the 400m hurdles but still completed the race? After the race, no one came to help him so he hopped up the stairs to get some medical attention.

 

[Remix]

Another day, another gold at Eton Dorney for team GB.

 

[Tastycles]

Ennis takes the piss. That would have won gold in the hurdles in Beijing, and she did it in the heptathlon.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Another two Gold Medals at Eton Dorney for Team NZ

 

[Diet Soda]

Anyone watching the men's tennis semi-final? Federer is starting to do that really irritating thing where he just won't lose.

 

[Барбоса]

Del Potro is one of the very few that seems to be able to always give Federer a game.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Del Potro is one of the very few that seems to be able to always give Federer a game.

True, of course there are a couple of guys named Djokovic and Nadal that qualify in this regard as well. And Tsonga.