Steve Austin is NOT the most successful wrestler of all-time.

[Rico_Len]

I get caught up on youtube yacking with people who drink the WWE cool-aid and believe that because once upon a time Steve Austin broke the record in merchandizing money that he was the most successful wrestler of all time, and thinking that he's better than Hulk Hogan.

Well you can make an argument either way about Hulk Hogan, because Hogan did things Austin could only dream of too, but Austin, arguably not even The Rock (who crushes Austin these days, and is worth several times over what Austin is worth) is NOT more successful than the man who popularized the sport, was the face of pro-wrestling, is believed to have singlehandedly validated television as a media, and is a name that to this day, no matter how big of a rock you've been living under, you STILL know his name.

I'm talking about "Gorgeous" George.

George Wagner, it is claimed, was responsible for selling more television sets than "Mr. Television" himself Milton Berle. George Wagner was a celebrity as big as they come back in the 1940's and 50's. Bigger than The Rock is today. Rock is an action movie star and makes the most money of anyone in pro-wrestling that doesn't own the WWE.

However "Gorgeous" George was on the level of celebrity then with THE most elite names in all of the entertainment business. Today those names are Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Biance, Oprah, and others, back then it was people like Lucille Ball, Bob Hope, Humphrey Bogart, and of course "Gorgeous" George.

"Muhammad Ali and James Brown acknowledged that their own approach to flamboyant self-promotion was influenced by George."

Keep in mind that for as great as you think the Attitude Era was, it STILL wasn't as successful, or as big a phenomenon as pro-wrestling was back in the 1950's with names like Lou Thesz, Verne Gagne, Antonino "Argentina" Rocca, "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers, Walter "Killer" Kowalski, and "Gorgeous" George Wagner. Every single one of these guys I just mentioned could wrestle circles around Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Shawn Micheals, The Undertaker, and Mick Foley. And every one of them has a legacy the attitude era stars quite literally look up to, to this very day.

"By the 1950s, Gorgeous George’s starpower was so huge that he was able to command 50% of the gate for his performances, which allowed him to earn over $100,000 a year, thus making him the highest paid athlete in the world."

 

[Slash-LN]

no matter how big of a rock you've been living under, you STILL know his name.

I would argue this.

Ask a casual fan today who he is and they probably wouldn't know. Ask a random person who isn't a fan of wrestling and they probably wouldn't know.

Ask the same people if they have ever heard of Stone Cold Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan and they probably have.

Gorgeous George has been forgotten over time and really isn't relevant to this generation.

Do a bunch of us on the internet know who he is? Probably. But we spend time online talking about wrestling and its history.

How many of us have actually taken time to go back and watch his matches and/or could put together a list of top 5 or 10 top matches or moments? Probably not a lot of us.

Successful for his time? Sure.

Most successful of all time?
I'd say that's debatable. As much as I hate Hogan he's still got to be the most recognized wrestler of all time. He'll probably still be remembered as that even when we're all dead and gone unless someone major comes along and changes that.

It's hard to argue the money they made because that has all changed dramatically from then to now.

 

[Rico_Len]

Steve Austin doesn't have name recognition any more than Ric Flair does. Hulk Hogan eats Ric Flair and defecates Steve Austin when it comes to casual passer-by name recognition, and so does "Gorgeous" George.

People who are asked "Have you heard of the name 'Gorgeous' George?" will answer yes. Not so with Ric Flair or Steve Austin at all.

The people you ask might not be able to tell you exactly who "Gorgeous" George is, but they know the name. Even kids today who watch wrestlingknow "Gorgeous" George's name because of the signature at the beginning of the show.

Now, that said, most kids who don't know wrestling at all, won't know Lucille Ball, Bob Hope, or Humphrey Bogart either, but nor would the children who watch pro-wrestling either.

Time DOES erase the relevance of old legends. You're absolutely right. And today "Gorgeous" George is no more relevant than Lou Thesz, Bart Star, Johnny Unitas, or Johnny Carson. But after a person reaches a certain age, they still know the names, no matter how much more obsolete they become.

Then again the same is happening with Austin & Hogan too.

Hogan is no longer the most famous person in pro-wrestling. The Rock took that spot years ago, even Chris Jericho is arguably a bigger name in pop culture being synonymous with someone who made it big who got their start in pro-wrestling than Hulk Hogan.

And again, when it comes to name recognition. Steve who? Wasn't he the Million Dollar Man in the 1970's?

EDIT: I would amend, however, that success of someone during a certain era is still fairly comparable. It's not easy, but when it's so lopsided as the comparisons between Austin, who most people consider the most successful ever, and "Gorgeous" George, it's almost laughable. Austin never reached the level of celebrity George Wagner did, he never had the legacy, all Austin managed to accomplish was to be the biggest cash cow for any wrestling promoter ever. However his level of celebrity was never that large, and by that I mean compared to anyone who becomes a celebrity. He certainly was not like The Rock's got to be, not like Andre the Giant's got to be, not like Bruno Sammartino was, and certainly not like Buddy Rodgers or "Gorgeous" George or even Lou Thesz. I would even argue that as far as the level of celebrity is concerned, John Cena is even a bigger name to non-wrestling fans that Steve Austin.'

And don't get me wrong here. IMO The Steve Austin Show Podcast is the greatest thing going in the world of pro-wrestling today. I love Steve Austin to death, but he's really just some guy who owns a ranch, had 15 minutes of fame from wrestling, and now has a radio show you can download and occasionally hosts a reality tv show and has various small roles in big movies or big roles in small movies. That's nothing to scoff at, at all. But that also doesn't hold a candle to "Gorgeous" George.

 

[faltemer]

At best this argument is anecdotal and really all evidence suggests otherwise. Nobody knows who Gorgeous George is, at best they might have heard of him once, but thats just as likely as hearing The Rock, Stone Cold, or Hulk Hogan, who are all much bigger names nowadays, and most likely in their own days too. Nowadays I bet CM Punk is a bigger name then George, not sure what possible way you think you are justifying him being "well Known".

 

[Rico_Len]

You're talking about NOW. Now? Yeah CM Punk IS a bigger name than Gorgeous George. Very true.

However, NOW if you were to bring "Gorgeous" George and place him at the level of celebrity he had then? He would be paid more than Floyd "Money" Mayweather, who makes 85 million a year. And as I said before, he would be brushing elbows with Oprah, and actors all over Hollywood would be sending him costumes to wear in hope that he would make them famous. If you plop Steve Austin in that day and he were to have comparable levels of success then as he did in the 90's he would be comparable to someone like Killer Kowalski.

BTW you use the word anecdotal. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

You can't really compare two different eras. Back in the GG times there wasn't much on TV or as much to do as there is today. His style would NEVER get over as big as it did back in those days. You can't just bring a guy from the 50's and make him as big as he was in the 50's. It doesn't work like that. Today he wouldn't draw a dime. Not disrespecting him because he was a great wrestler...FOR HIS TIME.

This thread is a great big FAIL.

 

[Rico_Len]

Well one thing is for sure, nobody really knows who the most successful wrestler of all time is, so really, it's one of those ongoing debate topics where there is never an agreement. Another thing, is this the Rico I'm guessing it is?

Bring the Pain
Lesnar
LA
Age:21

Hey Sora!

You can't really compare two different eras. Back in the GG times there wasn't much on TV or as much to do as there is today. His style would NEVER get over as big as it did back in those days. You can't just bring a guy from the 50's and make him as big as he was in the 50's. It doesn't work like that. Today he wouldn't draw a dime. Not disrespecting him because he was a great wrestler...FOR HIS TIME.

This thread is a great big FAIL.

You can compare them to the cows come home. It's as easy as looking for similarities. Done. Want to use a better word?

Considering that he invented that style, I think it would be quite novel today. He has influenced pop culture to such a degree that no one even realizes that "Ravishing" Rick Rude is derivative of George, as is every other pretty boy heel that is considered a cliché wrestling gimmick today.

As for "You can't just bring a guy from the 50's and make him as big as he was in the 50's. It doesn't work like that." Thank you captain obvious. That's why I discuss it here on a wrestle fanboy's forum because hopefully the people here are able to suspend their disbelief enough to discuss the "what if's" that don't "work like that."

Meanwhile you can easily adjust accomplishments for the time and compare. That's not to say that's somehow a concrete way of saying "Gorgeous" George owns Austin, but it's annoying to me that no body ever includes him on the discussion, usually the discussions never get older than Hogan, Austin, Cena, when "Gorgeous" George has a very real claim that is tangibly greater than Austin's who is by-and-large accepted as the most successful of all time these days.

The fact that it appears only you think this is enough to make me fairly certain I'm using it correctly. If you want to believe he was some huge name go ahead.

That has nothing to do with it being anecdotal. Look up the definition. And FYI, history contradicts your assessment of my views in the extreme. You're thinking contemporarily, I'm thinking historically.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

"Successful" in what sense?

Name recognition? That's Hulk Hogan.
Fictional title wins? That's Jerry Lawler.
Money? That's The Rock.
Total years on top? That's John Cena.

Gorgeous George was a top guy in his time, just like Bruno Sammartino was the top guy in his time, Ric Flair was the top guy in his time, and Steve Austin was the top guy in his time.

To say he's more successful than those guys is a flawed argument. Different eras of wrestling, with very different levels of exposure. More people got to see Steve Austin wrestle than Gorgeous George and Bruno Sammartino combined due to the revolution of weekly television, something that neither George nor Bruno had in their time at the top.

He was very popular, but there was a limit on how successful you could be then. Today, millions of people watch Heath Slater wrestle on TV every week. When can George say he got millions of people to watch him wrestle at the same time?

 

[RKO920]

Ask a casual wrestling fan to name the biggest stars ever, they'll say Austin, Hogan, Rock, Cena and maybe Michaels. Only because not a lot of people today got to see Ric Flair wrestle.

There is no question to the amount of influence Gorgeous George had on wrestling as a whole. All of the greats will mention his name at some point when talking about who influenced them. Ask a wrestling fan around 30 or under who Gorgeous George is, their answer might very well be "the hot blonde that was Macho Man's manager in WCW."

The most successful wrestlers of all time, my opinion: Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bruno, Cena, and Flair. With all apologizes to guys like HBK, Taker, Kurt Angle and even Brock Lesnar, although we know Brock became a household name because of the WWE became an international star because of the UFC.

Hogan, Rock and Cena all transcend the business because they made it in other areas outside the business. I'll go back to the ask someone bit for a second. Ask a non wrestling fan who Hulk Hogan, The Rock, or John Cena are, they will be able to tell you who they are and what they do. Now as a non wrestling fan who Gorgeous George is, they might not be able to tell you, that doesn't make them the most successful wrestler of all time then. For his time? No question at all. But for all time? There's a big argument to be made.

 

[faltemer]

Bring the Pain
Lesnar
LA
Age:21

Hey Sora!



You can compare them to the cows come home. It's as easy as looking for similarities. Done. Want to use a better word?

Considering that he invented that style, I think it would be quite novel today. He has influenced pop culture to such a degree that no one even realizes that "Ravishing" Rick Rude is derivative of George, as is every other pretty boy heel that is considered a cliché wrestling gimmick today.

As for "You can't just bring a guy from the 50's and make him as big as he was in the 50's. It doesn't work like that." Thank you captain obvious. That's why I discuss it here on a wrestle fanboy's forum because hopefully the people here are able to suspend their disbelief enough to discuss the "what if's" that don't "work like that."

Meanwhile you can easily adjust accomplishments for the time and compare. That's not to say that's somehow a concrete way of saying "Gorgeous" George owns Austin, but it's annoying to me that no body ever includes him on the discussion, usually the discussions never get older than Hogan, Austin, Cena, when "Gorgeous" George has a very real claim that is tangibly greater than Austin's who is by-and-large accepted as the most successful of all time these days.


That has nothing to do with it being anecdotal. Look up the definition. And FYI, history contradicts your assessment of my views in the extreme. You're thinking contemporarily, I'm thinking historically.

From what I'm seeing you aren't thinking at all. This has quite a lot to do with being anecdotal until you bring actual evidence that X% higher people knew who George was in the 50s, then to now. You think this, so it is now fact. perhaps your grandfather brought it up the other day and you just had to believe everyone back then knew him. Or something similar.
With the technology and accessibility today the market he reached is so minuscule it would be laughable in today's standards. FYI, I'm thinking logically, not sure what you are on about though.

 

[tvcolosi]

Being familiar with the name does not necessarily have anything to do with success. You ask me what "Sugar" Ray Robinson, Ed "Too Tall" Jones, Moses Malone, Dick Butkus, Dizzy Dean, ETC.. I could tell you what sports they played. I do not know anything about them.

Hulk Hogan, Rock and Steve Austin had more eyeballs on them than Bruno, Thesz and George combined. With those guys working in promotions that were televised territorially and occasionally nationally. The number of homes that had TV's then were such a small percentage.

Hulk was on NBC world wide once a month and got monster ratings. then a decade later Hulk, Steve Austin and Rock had 6+ million viewers every Monday night. Knowing who someone is, and having actual numbers showing how many people watched you every week are 2 absolutely different things.

 

[Kris Benwa]

Neither is Gorgeous George LOL. What the hell as far as transcending wrestling it's Hogan, Rock, and to a lesser extent Cena. If you ask a casual PERSON not wrestling fan who Stone Cold Steve Austin there's a chance they'd say yes but everyone would say yes To The Rock and Hulk Hogan and quite a few people know who Cena is. Nobody knows who Gorgeous George is

 

[Goldie]

"Successful" in what sense?

Name recognition? That's Hulk Hogan.
Fictional title wins? That's Jerry Lawler.
Money? That's The Rock.
Total years on top? That's John Cena.

Gorgeous George was a top guy in his time, just like Bruno Sammartino was the top guy in his time, Ric Flair was the top guy in his time, and Steve Austin was the top guy in his time.

To say he's more successful than those guys is a flawed argument. Different eras of wrestling, with very different levels of exposure. More people got to see Steve Austin wrestle than Gorgeous George and Bruno Sammartino combined due to the revolution of weekly television, something that neither George nor Bruno had in their time at the top.

He was very popular, but there was a limit on how successful you could be then. Today, millions of people watch Heath Slater wrestle on TV every week. When can George say he got millions of people to watch him wrestle at the same time?

I agree with this post.... (though Bruno... and Hogan were at the top longer than Cena).
From the different definitions of successful, I would assume its more geared towards name recognition/worldwide star power.

You ask 100 random people to name a wrestler and more people will say Hulk Hogan than anyone else.

Austin had a very hot period in the late 90s... and at his peak actually drew more than Hogan.... but Hogan had a much longer career at the top and drew more over a longer timeframe.
To general members of the public who are not wrestling fans... they associate Hogan with the product... 'Oh wrestling... thats what Hulk Hogan does'.

I'd agree that Gorgeous George was a big deal in his day... but wrestling was territorial then... when Vince expanded the WWE in the 80s it became a worldwide phenonenom... wrestlers were not just famous in the States... they became known throughout the world. Not even Bruno was a huge name in places like Europe in the 70s... but Hogan is a household name throughout the world.

 

[rge2010]

The biggest name ever in Pro Wrestling is Hulk Hogan. Everyone knows this guy and lets not forget, he was in his pomp before the internet. I can ask anyone I know here in the UK who Hulk Hogan is and they will tell me. Ask them who Stone Cold is and a lot will struggle.

The biggest name ever to come out of Wrestling is The Rock.

 

[Blade]

OP, have you heard of Hulk Hogan? Well, Hulk Hogan had everything that George had and did everything that George did, except more.

Celebrities? Hogan was rubbing shoulders with Mr. T, Muhammed Ali, Dennis Rodman, Jay Leno among others, all when they were still big deals.

Drawing? Let me put this into perspective. More people watched Hogan in his prime than owned a TV in George's prime.

Money? Come on, I find it hard to believe that George drew or made more money than Hogan. Hogan got money from all kinds of merch, sponsorships, commercials, movies and Pay Per View buys. Even adjusted for inflation, George couldn't touch Hogan.

Influence? We'd be here all day if I had to write it all down.

And, on top of that, Hogan created two seperate boom periods in wrestling, pracitcally on his own. George got wrestling far more mainstream recognition, for sure, but nothing like what Hogan did in the 80's and 90's.

Hogan is the most successful professional wrestler of all time. Fact. The Rock is the most successful guy to have a post-wrestling career, but strictly in terms of wrestling, Hogan owns everyone.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

I love this thread. Not because of its content, but because the responses prove what I suspected all along: The IWC is FULL of closed-minded, ignorant fools who state their insubstantial opinions as fact.

"No one knows who Gorgeous George is." No, no one knows who you are or cares what you think you know. MANY people know who Gorgeous George is. His name was much more well-known in his era than Rock's or Austin's were in theirs. Just because you guys sit here every day and argue, and beat to death, the same lame "debates" doesn't give you the right--or a damn clue--to speak on behalf of "everyone".

I believe Hulk Hogan is the most known name in professional wrestling history. Many non-wrestling fans know the name Hulk Hogan, same as it was in Gorgeous George's era--which as far as name recognition goes, is still the current era. You hear celebrities all the time, when asked about wrestling, refer to "the days of Gorgeous George". He WAS THAT BIG. Hogan is bigger. Hell, his family even goes by the name. Brooke Hogan, Nick Hogan, Linda Hogan. Do you think Jason Alexander's family would call themselves "Costanza" if they had a reality show? The character of Hulk Hogan is HUGE and by far the most well-known wrestling name ever.

To the OP, good for you for trying to make a point and bring originality to this forum. Don't let these no-lifes who wake up just to talk about wrestling with other fools...about the same crap OVER and OVER...get you down. These crybabies refer to Koko B Ware and his HOF induction every damn day to make a point. They get over nothing and waste their lives bashing things that they can't control and desperately want fixed because that will make them happy. If you are offended by these statements, then you are the ones I am talking about.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I agree with this post.... (though Bruno... and Hogan were at the top longer than Cena).

You have a point, but WWWF wasn't as big when Bruno was champion. Imagine if ROH blew up in 2020 and became the biggest promotion of all time. Would Tyler Black and Jamie Noble's title reigns mean more?? I don't know. They'll definitely be part of ROH's rich history, but it wouldn't be the same as someone who is actually on top while the promotion is on top.

Bruno was on top for almost 12 years, but it just isn't comparable to Hogan and Cena's reigns at the top. Hogan had about 9 years as the main star of the 80's boom. You're right that Cena hasn't passed him yet, but he definitely will. He'll hit 9 years at WM30 and after that, he'll have passed Hogan.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Floyd makes that much? Damn. Didn't realize you could get huge pay for just boxing, which I don't really pay attention to.

Yeah, its ridiculous how much money the top level boxers make. Mayweather can command something like $20 million for a single fight, and he could quite conceivably knock the opponent out in the first round, meaning he gets the 20 million for just a few seconds work. I dont think there is any other sport in the world where an athlete can make that kind of money in such a short time.

But back to the topic at hand. For the time period when he was wrestling Gorgeous George was indeed an absolute cultural icon, but it will never be possible to compare people accurately from different generations but he has to be considered right up at the top of the list for the most successful of all time because of the level he reached in his time. Personally, if we are looking at name recognition, Hulk Hogan would be my pick. Even though his prime was about 30 years ago, almost everyone in the world knows who Hulk Hogan is, not just wrestling fans. If you ask a random person in the street to name the first wrestler that comes to mind, Hogan will be the pick, almost every single time.

 

[Bernkastel]

Steve Austin most certainly is not the most successful, but he's definitively in the Top 10. There's no denying that. I'd pick Hogan as my choice for greatest of all time basically by mirroring what Blade already laid out...

The biggest face of all time, the biggest heel of all time, responsible for two boom periods, is undoubtedly the most well known pro wrestler of all time, and has even retained a decent level of popularity into his 60's.

... and to add to that Hogan was a huge name all over the world back when there were no global wrestling promos. The Japanese loved him, the Canadians loved him, the Americans loved him. Hogan could wrestle just about anywhere in the world in his prime [except villages in Africa] and would receive an ovation.

As great as he was not even George could claim that kind of popularity from nearly absolutely everyone.

 

[Rico_Len]

Thank you all for your time and effort. I am glad to see that every one agrees with me that Hulk Hogan (yes I said Hulk Hogan, I had this discussion a couple years ago and no one would believe me, now you're fighting my case for me because I used a different name to compare to Steve Austin) was more successful than Steve Austin. My job is complete.

As an aside, I will say in George's defense that he set benchmarks, such as being the highest paid athlete of his day, and becoming one of the Hollywood elite (I'm talking A-list stars, not b-movie actors) as a wrestler, not as a cross-over star, that no other wrestler has ever come close to duplicating. He should never ever be left out of the conversations regarding who is the most successful, because in his day he dominated more fiercely than any wrestler ever did. 100 years from now he will still sit in the record books for his accomplishments, some of the other guys that could be included in these discussions today? Not so much.