Something You People Don't Know...

[The Idiot]

Back in the late 90's I used to come to wrestlezone and post on the message boards on a daily basis. Back then it was known as wrestlingtalks.com. Here's something that I find funny.

People today talk about the attitude era and how they miss it...you can't read two posts without someone bringing this up. I'm here to tell you that 90% of the posts from back then were from fans bashing the product and saying how they want WRESTLING back. They were tired of Russo coming up with these outrageous storylines and how Raw turned into a freak show and was no longer a wrestling show. Complaining how every match would end with a chair shot to the head and not an actual wrestling move.

It's funny to me how people today are nostalgic and want to bring the attitude back. Sure...you had alot more posters back then due to the popularity of the WWE(F) and would have to go back 3 or 4 pages just to find a post from the previous day, but the negativity from the posters was off the charts.

It doesn't matter what state the wrestling business is in...people will bash it one way or another. Do yourselves a favor and sit back, relax and just watch the show. I've been guilty of this myself and have learned to not be such a critic. The days of wrestling before the internet were truly something special.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It doesn't surprise me in the least. When it comes to "the past" as it pertains to what fans watched as kids, whether it be the 80s or the Attitude Era, it's been heavily romanticized through feelings of nostalgia. If you believe the posts that do nothing but praise the Attitude Era, you'd think that everything that took place was great. The simple truth is that it wasn't. The AE, in my view, was a lot of fun but it wasn't this paradigm of greatness that some try to make it out to be.

Fifteen years from now, someone will be on these forums gushing about how great the PG Era was and will hype it to such an extreme that the actuality won't nearly match up to the vision they've created for themselves within their own minds.

 

[The Idiot]

It doesn't surprise me in the least. When it comes to "the past" as it pertains to what fans watched as kids, whether it be the 80s or the Attitude Era, it's been heavily romanticized through feelings of nostalgia. If you believe the posts that do nothing but praise the Attitude Era, you'd think that everything that took place was great. The simple truth is that it wasn't. The AE, in my view, was a lot of fun but it wasn't this paradigm of greatness that some try to make it out to be.

Fifteen years from now, someone will be on these forums gushing about how great the PG Era was and will hype it to such an extreme that the actuality won't nearly match up to the vision they've created for themselves within their own minds.

Exactly...it seems like that's the cycle. The old saying "You don't know what you have until it's gone."

The cartoon, new generation, attitude, and PG eras all had great things...and they all had their cons as well.

Guaranteed...years down the road people will look back and remember the time when CM Punk came to be, along with Cena being the top face and HHH taking control of the company. Wouldn't surprise me if people complained about not having the quality of superstars like they did back then (back then, of course meaning...the PG era!) What a concept.

 

[El Rev sXe]

It's directly linked to a feeling of nostaslgia. Most of us were kids when we were first hooked to professional wrestling. Therefore we think it was better because it got us from the beggining. I think is as simple as that. People lives in the oast they always think before was better than now and it's not only on wrestling, it's on everything.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

As much as I love and was a fan of the attitude era, I also am a fan of evolution (no not the stable that was led by Triple H) and the forward progress of something, like the film industry and wrestling.

Its funny though, the film industry (or as its referred to as Hollywood) has come along way. Black and white films will always be loved and cherished. People thought 8mm film was the greatest thing...and then they were able to add sound and THAT was the best thing to happen to film. Look at what we have now. 3D is an evolving breakthrough, so are CG (computer generated) movies...wether it be something done from Pixar like Toy Story or something as beautiful as Avatar. But there will always be those people that LOVE the old-style, traditional ways of film. I myself am an aspiring filmmaker. I would love to shoot a movie on 8mm film...but you cant do that today.

The same way you cant replicate the attitude era. It was good back in the day, but its time to move forward and evolve into something new, and thats what WWE is doing. Not to bash TNA, but thats why they are not working as well. They spend too much time focusing on what worked in the past, instead of looking to the future.

**Steps of soapbox**

 

[LegendKiller716]

That's awesome. I've always wondered if people bashed guys like Stone Cold and The Rock back then, like they bash Cena today.

I have always been a fan of the post attitude era. From the time WCW was bought until Cena got drafted to Raw was my favorite period of time. After Cena went to Raw Smackdown turned into FCW part 2. Once a guy got too good he'd move to Raw. I hate that. Back in the day when Lesnar, Angle, JBL, and later Cena were all there was great.

Honestly It's not the eras that ruin wrestling for so many people, it's the internet. I enjoyed wrestling a lot more before the internet spoiled me, but I still openly enjoy the product, unlike so many on here.

 

[RicoLen]

I was one of those guys back then bashing the attitude era (or rather the WWF, from 1996-1999). I was a fan of the WCW back then and I loved it, then came the trashier end of the attitude era or ruthless aggression if you prefer, and I stopped watching all together. I didn't care for the PG-era, but ever since Bret Hart returned, I got more and more invested in their current product, and I believe I watched the end of the PG-era and the start of a new one. There is a very definite change in the feel of the product. I love what we have now, and I look forward to Monday Night Raw every week.

Point being, I think it's a little more than JUST nostalgia. It's more of a matter of a fan being willing to roll with the punches and allow their viewing experience to evolve. There is certainly a degree of quality that comes and goes in waves in pro-wrestling though. That has a lot to do with employee turnover and storylines beginning and ending. You toss a few duds in at the wrong time, and it can really blow up on you (oh the irony), and ruin your product for years. The nice thing is that it appear it does eventually recover.

Personally I've learned to do exactly what you say, sit back, enjoy what you've got put in front of you, and learn to appreciate what it IS bringing to the table instead of focusing on what it isn't, at least to an extent.

Sometimes there just something you don't want, period. For some people it's what John Cena represents to them, for others it's trashy storylines, for others it a style of wrestling that has either just been phased out or phased in. It all changes, and it's not just nostalgia.

I will readily admit that WCW grabbed me based off the fact that it had all the guys I grew up knowing and loving. The Road Warriors, Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, & Razor Ramone, were the guys that drew me to WCW. However it was Goldberg, Raven, Sting, Wrath (damn he needed a push!) The Luchadore division, & Kevin Nash that kept me going. To qualify, I watched Razor Ramone, but because of school, I missed out on 90% of Diesel's feuds in the WWF, so I really didn't know him.

 

[H33LTurn]

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding this whole "just sit back and enjoy" campaign going on in this site for a while now. How can you sit back and enjoy something you dont enjoy? talking about it doesnt change that fact. I'm not saying I dont enjoy today's product to some extend but it wouldnt kill anybody if there was more violence involved, more action, and not just two guys grappling for 30 mins, 5 mins of backstage, and 5 mins of some promo that looks like its going to get violent but then calms down at the last second. I cant be over analytic about it, its just as a guy I enjoy violence. Action movies, sports, etc. If you hold your tongue on it then nothing is ever going to change. You see how WWE is now playing to the IWC? Its because we voiced our opinions. If we never said Daniel Brian was being misused he wouldnt have become MITB winner, if we hadnt cared about the backstage stuff Punk's promo would've been meaningless. The IWC will always complain about everything, thats true. You can tell an era is meaningful when fans are crammed up in the arena for RAW is WAR and you can tell its meaningless when Summerslam starts and the crowd is already dead.

 

[The Future Rises]

It's like some people follow wrestling just to complain about it. They should just enjoy the product even if something happens that they don't like at least give it a chance and see where it goes. I'm not surprised about this fact one bit. But the thing is that the Attitude Era had great talents(Kurt Angle, Steve Austin, The Rock, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero) But they never focused much on the WRESTLING. I think some people just miss it because it was from their childhood.

I started watching around 2000/2001 and I loved it back then. But I actually thought the product got better when they moved on to a new generation era. And that was my favorite time to watch wrestling.. From 2002 - 2008 they combined both the fun and the hardcore stuff people liked from the Attitude Era and the wrestling. So it was great in my opinion.

People need to stop complaining and enjoy the product instead of acting like critics.

 

[Starchild]

Being a part of some other, non-wrestling related message boards I can tell you that this phenomenon is not just exclusive to wrestling. More often than not, people complain about every little thing with their favorite sports teams, the music of today, television shows, movies, and the list goes on and on and on. It seems that many people just like to get on message boards and be cynical...perhaps an outlet for them because of the anonymity factor so they can say some things that won't get them chastised or looked down on in the real world. I think the advent of the internet and the rise in popularity since the mid-90s is the major factor in that. People can't help but to look at views from other people and have it affect their own. Or in the case of wrestling, look at spoilers and things that are rumored and then claim that something is "predictable".
Personally I try to avoid that last part as much as possible...I didn't have a damn clue that Nash & Booker T were gonna be at the Rumble, nor did I know Nash would take out Punk at at MITB. I really didn't know who was gonna win either of the two Punk/Cena matches. I know who I wanted to win, but I just didn't know. To say that this product right now is watered down and predictable is just asinine. WWE has been building towards this for a couple years and now have some of the best television we've seen in years.

As for the Attitude Era, is it blown out of proportion? Yea it probably is. I suppose it's the nostalgia getting to us. I've gonna back and watched alot of shows, promos, and builds to some of the more classic Attitude Era storylines and have to say some of them really are damn good week in and week out. I'm however not gonna say that every single thing was good and made all kind of sense. The Mae Young pregnancy angle, Goldust being "The Artist", making fun of Roadwarrior Hawk's alcoholism, etc. were all horrible and a disgrace to those involved. However, overall I don't think I will ever enjoy a period as much as the Attitude Era so for me it'll always be the best. For some, that might be said about Hogan in the 80s and for some kids maybe the time where Cena has ruled the land will be the best. I'm not trying to romanticize it or claim that the post Attitude and PG Eras have never had anything entertaining, but for my money when Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Rock, and DX were running the show was when wrestling was at it's best.

 

[Jeritron5000]

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding this whole "just sit back and enjoy" campaign going on in this site for a while now. How can you sit back and enjoy something you dont enjoy?

Exactly. I'm sorry but there is nothing wrong with coming onto a message board and speaking your mind about the current state of something you love. People who say "sit back and enjoy or don't watch" have about as much of an argument as people who may say "If you don't like me complaining about it then don't come to the boards."

What's wrong with wanting something to be improved upon? And when it comes to Cena...say what you want about him (and it doesn't matter what that may be because it's your freakin OPINION) but that crowd reaction is damn real. Half hate him, half love him...so don't be so shocked when there's a bunch of infighting about the subject all over the boards.

In conclusion. I'm not sick of people voicing their opinion about the attitude era, cena, ryder's tv time, tna...anything...but the complaining about people having an opinion thing is getting really old.

 

[The Idiot]

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding this whole "just sit back and enjoy" campaign going on in this site for a while now. How can you sit back and enjoy something you dont enjoy? talking about it doesnt change that fact. I'm not saying I dont enjoy today's product to some extend but it wouldnt kill anybody if there was more violence involved, more action, and not just two guys grappling for 30 mins, 5 mins of backstage, and 5 mins of some promo that looks like its going to get violent but then calms down at the last second. I cant be over analytic about it, its just as a guy I enjoy violence. Action movies, sports, etc. If you hold your tongue on it then nothing is ever going to change. You see how WWE is now playing to the IWC? Its because we voiced our opinions. If we never said Daniel Brian was being misused he wouldnt have become MITB winner, if we hadnt cared about the backstage stuff Punk's promo would've been meaningless. The IWC will always complain about everything, thats true. You can tell an era is meaningful when fans are crammed up in the arena for RAW is WAR and you can tell its meaningless when Summerslam starts and the crowd is already dead.

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion....but at the same time when you come home from work and turn on Monday Night Raw only to sit on your couch and critique everything they do...it takes the fun out of it. When people have it in their heads where they want the storyline to go and then it doesn't happen...they get upset and bash the product. All I'm saying is try to enjoy it as a fan. If everything happens the way you had envisioned it..it would be predictable and boring.

You say that you want more violence? Well that's exactly what I'm getting at, because back in the late 90's the majority of posters wanted WRESTLING...and now the posters of today want more VIOLENCE. This was the point of the thread and how everything goes in cycles.

 

[Jeritron5000]

All I'm saying is try to enjoy it as a fan. If everything happens they way you had envisioned it..it would be predictable and boring.

Haha well the irony here as that, to a lot of us, the product is predictable and boring. That's a problem. I don't believe I've come across a thread bashing how shocking and unpredictable RAW has become.

 

[The Idiot]

Haha well the irony here as that, to a lot of us, the product is predictable and boring. That's a problem. I don't believe I've come across a thread bashing how shocking and unpredictable RAW has become.

You honestly just sat there and typed that? Really? The product is predictable and boring?

You knew about Nash returning. You knew that HHH was coming back to fire Vince. You knew ADR would leave as the champ. You knew R-Truth would turn heel and conduct some good promos. You knew all this...well jesus christ, son...if you're so damn psychic, give me the winning lotto numbers for tonight.

 

[Dysturbed]

at the same time when you come home from work and turn on Monday Night Raw only to sit on your couch and critique everything they do...it takes the fun out of it.

In other words some people seem to watch for the sole purpose of nitpicking everything as opposed to watching with the hope of liking things and then happening to notice things that they dislike for various reasons. That is probably not how it really is, but how it can easily be perceived.

The complaints about predictability and boring have been around for years and people will always have examples to counter of things that aren't predictable but I think that the issue is that even though certain things are completely unpredictable when they first come to fruition, the follow through portions of a storyline are the what are deemed predictable to a certain portion of fans. That or the portion of the shows that are predictable seem to overshadow the less predictable parts quite a bit.

I personally view things for how they are and not for how I want them to be, but realize that I am understandably in a minority in that respect. For me the "how they are" isn't as bad as it is for some others but that isn't because i don't notice faults, but that i honestly just don't care. That isn't to say that I am not one of those fans who blindly accepts everything rather one who does my best to look past things. I do see why that is difficult for others to do but at the same time chances are that for the minority that seem to complain almost non stop, something is keeping them as viewers.

 

[Jeritron5000]

Uhh yeah, I just typed all that. First off...you didn't know Del Rio was gonna cash in and become champ? Well I'm glad that was shocking to you. Second, no...I wasn't aware that the last 3 weeks of programming out of the past several years would be taking place. You got me. I wonder if it has anything to due with the popularity of the CM Punk vs the boring status quo of the WWE angle? Who knows.

 

[poppycock]

Posters bashing other posters for bigging up/wanting a new Attitude Era are now just as cliche and boring as those who want the Era back. I loved the Attitude Era more than any other period in my "watching WWE history" which I started in 1992. I was young, angsty and at the right age for the Attitude Era to be relevant to me..I look back with very fond memories and was very entertained at the time. If we got a new Attitude Era I would not complain aslong as it is entertaining..at the same time I don't crave any re-run of any Era at all and just want to have a product I can enjoy (which the WWE is once again becoming). I dont see the point in trying to prove how overrated the Attitude Era was as much as I don't see any point in wanting it back but there you go.

 

[Shakin' Abe]

I go even further back than most. I've been a fan off and on since the 70's. Wrestling has always had it's ups and downs but there is and probably always be an audiance for it. I thought when Vince had to admit that it was scripted that it would fall apart but yet here it is still thriving to some point today. The damage today is the internet and all the haters posting spoilers, and bogus news and rumors. It's a show boys and girls. Let the circus come to town and entertain you and lighten up a bit! What did they used to say? "sit back, relax and enjoy 2 hours of Championship Wrestling!"

 

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

I have to agree with h33lturn....i like a litle violance..not just 30 minutes of grappling then 5 minutes of a "almost" violant promo that fizzles out...

I agree yes WWE is pushing the envelope a lil more latley and its getting better.

I also enjoy the product we have now, just a lil spicier wouldnt hurt...

 

[Dysturbed]

Based on what he has said I think that he is trying to convey the fact that a lot of people don't seem to be satisfied with what they are seeing at the moment yet always look back at how things used to be and yearn for those days even though those same days weren't always considered to be good enough in their own time. I don't get the impression that he was trying to prove that he remembered things lol

 

[vthokie8]

I would be willing to bet if CM Punk, Zack Ryder, Christian and Cody Rhodes were made the center of WWE programing fans would bitch wanting Cena and Orton back for some reason. Personally, I get tired of hearing about the attitude era. I come to this board usually once a week, and it is a garuntee there is some new post on here talking about how great the attitude era was and how bad the product today is. I'm sure it goes in an endless cycle during the "cartoon era" people probably bitched that the "golden age" was over, when the attitude era kicked off wrestling had became porn, and now it is too watered down. Personally, I think today's product is better than the attitude era. Today's superstars are more athletic, people of all ages can enjoy the product, and the storylines although still not great, are better than those of the attitude era. Every era has had it's pros and cons, I thought the "cartoon" era was the worst by far, but the past is the past. If it wasn't for The Rock, Austin, Taker, Vince and Triple H the Attitude Era would have stunk, aside from Austin/Vince, there was not one good storyline that came out of the Era that was memorable. We had women giving birth to hands, poison ivey getting rubbed on a man's bare ass, a porn star having his penis chopped off, a satanic initiation, a drunken legend trying to kill himself and a fat guy in a thong rubbing his bare ass in men's faces to huge pops, just to name a few. The roster was mediocre at best, there is no way guys like Road Dogg, Val Venis or D-Lo Brown would hold major titles on today's roster if they were still in their primes. Oh and did we forget the attitude era produced VINCE RUSSO! That alone should be enough said.

 

[Alittude]

How are the storylines better? That's garbage imo. Before this Cm Punk storyline the WWE didn't have interesting storylines that would captivate the audience at all. In the attitude era there was constantly entertaining storylines from the top to the bottom of the card. It doesn't matter if some were horrible because for the most part they were entertaining and isn't that why we watch it to begin with.

The WWE has been exteremely dull for years and that's why people will always complain about this era compared to attitude. The CM Punk storyline is as good as anything they did back then but the rest of the show is nowhere near that level.

 

[rge2010]

That's awesome. I've always wondered if people bashed guys like Stone Cold and The Rock back then, like they bash Cena today.

I have always been a fan of the post attitude era. From the time WCW was bought until Cena got drafted to Raw was my favorite period of time. After Cena went to Raw Smackdown turned into FCW part 2. Once a guy got too good he'd move to Raw. I hate that. Back in the day when Lesnar, Angle, JBL, and later Cena were all there was great.

Honestly It's not the eras that ruin wrestling for so many people, it's the internet. I enjoyed wrestling a lot more before the internet spoiled me, but I still openly enjoy the product, unlike so many on here.

The Rock in 2001 was bashed to high heaven!!!! He was stale, boring, terrible in the ring and the IWC couldnt wait for him to just go and make movies. The same cretins are now crying he sold out!!!

I was a Rock fan (still am) by the way.

 

[ocekit]

I completely agree with the OP. He was pointing out that nitpicking and overanalysis occurs all the time, that people complained back then as they do now, and that not much has changed in wrestling fandom.

It's nostalgia combined with that "the grass is always greener on the other side" aspect of fandom.

 

[H33LTurn]

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion....but at the same time when you come home from work and turn on Monday Night Raw only to sit on your couch and critique everything they do...it takes the fun out of it. When people have it in their heads where they want the storyline to go and then it doesn't happen...they get upset and bash the product. All I'm saying is try to enjoy it as a fan. If everything happens the way you had envisioned it..it would be predictable and boring.

You say that you want more violence? Well that's exactly what I'm getting at, because back in the late 90's the majority of posters wanted WRESTLING...and now the posters of today want more VIOLENCE. This was the point of the thread and how everything goes in cycles.

But who said we dont enjoy things as fans. We just happen to be vocal about it. It gets us riled up. Thats not to say we dont like the product but when something happens that we dislike we've vocal about it. Things dont have to be the exact same way we envision it but theres a lot that needs improvement, we just want to give our 2 cents. Why is it that every time we do it someone has to question our right to do so? You know someone repped negative my post that you repplied to. They posted a picture of shit. Shit in a toilet. Thats the level of maturity that you people have. That we're just the worst kind of people because we rather talk about stuff than sit down for two hours.