Something about the writing of some faces, BeAStar and the "children" product

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I've noticed something about the writing of some faces (particuraly John Cena) and they way they bahave against heels.

3 examples:
a) Cena beats Wade Barrett at TLC 2010 after an AA on chairs. Then Cena drags Barrett out of the ring and rops a dozen of chairs of top of him.
b) Cena bullies Rusev and Lana on RAW in order to get a second, underserving shot at the US Championship, at Wrestlemania 31.
c) Cena beats Batista in an "I Quit" match. Batista says "I Quit" before Cena AAs him from the top of the car. Cena AAs him anyways.
d) Jeff Hardy does the same thing on his brother Matt at Backlash 2009.

I think you can find many more examples as these. And here's my deal. WWE is supposed to be a family-oriented product, mostly aimed at children. Which means that children look up to some particular wrestlers as their hero, like John Cena. You don't see heroes like Spider-man, Batman, Superman, Captain America and even vigilantes like Daredevil beat up the bad guy, if there's no reason to.
And that's exactly what those "faces" did in the examples I mentioned.

Cena is always said to be the face of the company, the mr. all good guy for example. (I'm not bashing Cena, I'm just using his writing as an example). However, how can you not boo Cena after the things he's portrayed to have done? CM Punk called Cena out on many things, true things, that's why Punk go so over with his Pipebomb back in 2011.

The point I'm trying to make here is this: Having a guy like Punisher walking around is not bad, but you can't have every face be Punisher. Especially not a guy like Cena. Orton would play a great Punisher. But not Cena and not many other faces. My point is, I believe that the reason WWE has failed is because it doesn't produce heroes any more. They just try lazily to fit all the eggs in one basket, because "anti-heroism" sells. But the fact is, that it doesn't sell, when it's forced (see Reigns, Roman).

So what do you think of this?
Do you think WWE needs to have more consistency in the writing of their characters?

I certainly think that WWE superstars lack identity. Everyone is trying to be Austin or be anti-heroes. The problem is that WWE are phoning it, and they present those anti-heroes, as heroes and vice-versa.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Superman was actually a pretty big asshole in quite a few older Superman comics.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

It's wrestling. A program solely based on violence. Nobody comes to see the hero "let up" and allow the villain to escape punishment. The fans came to see John Cena beat their asses, no matter how he does it.

I don't believe there has ever been an all-around pure hero character type. Hulk Hogan wasn't. He would grab the bad guy and tear them apart even after the match was over. It's a sort of wish fulfillment. Maybe the good guy can get away with just winning a victory over the bad guys in cartoons, movies, etc. But fans came to see a spectacle. They pay to see John Cena drop those chairs onto Barrett even if he didn't need it to win. In a way, he's more likable for his execution than he would be if he took the high road.

And children watch Power Rangers, a show that has the heroes literally killing the villains. At least I think they still watch that. They've probably moved on to something even more violent by now.

 

[OYDK]

Hulk Hogan, despite being the biggest "hero" face ever, was one of the most low-down, scummy cheaters in the ring during his time on top, and WWE was just as involved with charities and kids back then as they are today. He'd bite, rake eyes, low-blow, hit people with chairs, beat on his opponent after the bell, and not give a shit. The fans loved it. Wrestling has always been like this, there has never been a babyface who hasn't "let their anger get the better of them" at one time or another.

Yes face wrestlers like John Cena are supposed to be portrayed as "heroes", but unlike Superman, they're also supposed to be real people too. Real people show anger and passion and hatred. They're not there to "save" anybody, they're there to kick ass and punish their opponent. Plus, in most of the scenarios you're describing, the heel did more than enough to earn what they got.

EDIT: Stone Cold and John Cena are two completely different types of faces. I really don't see how you can even come close to comparing the two.

 

[SoulTrain4]

You overthinking it. Its that simple. Faces aren't Disney heroes. This is wrestling.

 

[Kizzani]

I honestly apologize in advance for what is about to happen.

I think you can find many more examples as these. And here's my deal. WWE is supposed to be a family-oriented product, mostly aimed at children. Which means that children look up to some particular wrestlers as their hero, like John Cena. You don't see heroes like Spider-man, Batman, Superman, Captain America and even vigilantes like Daredevil beat up the bad guy, if there's no reason to.

Clearly you must have missed Civil war.....In which your "Superheroes" fight each other and many of those "Heroes" are arrested, and then break out of Jail, they destroyed cities and countries etc etc. So these "Heroes" (as you call them) are far worse than WWE superstars. How many stadiums crumbled and killed people.....What? you were comparing entertainment to entertainment.

But you want to know why, because having a face run away saying "Don't be a bully" would keep no one's attention, besides kids are only there so adults have an excuse to like wrestling ( what you thought gays were the only ones in closets? )
Wrestling is NOT tailored to kids, or thier would be teletubbies wrestling scooby doo, nor is even family oriented. Gyrating hips, sexual innuendos, and violence. My son is 6 and daughter is 4.....neither are allowed to watch wrestling.

Cena is always said to be the face of the company, the mr. all good guy for example. (I'm not bashing Cena, I'm just using his writing as an example). However, how can you not boo Cena after the things he's portrayed to have done? CM Punk called Cena out on many things, true things, that's why Punk go so over with his Pipebomb back in 2011.

and there is the real point. So you have Cena who might take a few extra steps to ENTERTAIN (you don't seriously think kids look at thier parents and say "Daddy, why did cena hit the AA even though he won?" No they just love seeing the finisher and being entertained.

So Cena......Never give up
CM Punk......Quit if you don't get your way.

Which do you want your kids to live by?

point I'm trying to make here is this: Having a guy like Punisher walking around is not bad, but you can't have every face be Punisher. Especially not a guy like Cena. Orton would play a great Punisher. But not Cena and not many other faces. My point is, I believe that the reason WWE has failed is because it doesn't produce heroes any more. They just try lazily to fit all the eggs in one basket, because "anti-heroism" sells. But the fact is, that it doesn't sell, when it's forced (see Reigns, Roman).

You are not making a point, you are taking 1 event from a series of events and focusing on it. You are like those people that take a set of words from a book and ignore all the FACTS that lead to the final spot. John Cena isn't walking around like the punisher, He is walking around like he is special and the top dog and the bullies come out and poke at him.

So let's pretend you are a good person, you are just standing there and having a good time watching your kids play at the park and some Aj Styles hole comes out and drops your on your head......Then what? Do you sit thier and cry, whine, boo hoo, never go back in fear of the bully? Let's pretend you're not a puss bag and you go back the following week, this time you are ready.....oh but the bully brings friends and get dumped on your stupid head.

(I only did this to prove a point, you might be reading this thinking damn this guy is a real jerk calling me names and mocking me.....So what are you going to do, slam me and my words with your words, or are you going to ignore it and entertain no one?)
Wrestling is still entertainment overall, I don't think you're stupid....just your ideas.....haahha bazinga.

But seriously, John Cena the tv character doesn't start the fights he finishes them and you know who doesn't bully, a guy who can't get up.

Do you think WWE needs to have more consistency in the writing of their characters?

I have said this before WWE needs more gimmicks and less people. Finn Balor stupid name The Demon much better.
Mark Calloway...stupid....Undertaker much better
John Cena stupid name.....Juan Cena....Nah still stupid.

In my era of wrestling is was The Ultimate Warrior, The Hulk , Macho Man, Big Boss man, IRS, The Million Dollar man....yeah we knew he was Ted DiBiase, but we didn't refer to him as Ted. Tag teams like Demolition Axe, Smash and Crush.
But the WWE wants to be like the UFC, which is stupid, WWE is entertainment take that crap overboard.....over sell it, make it fun. Even Chris Jericho goes by his name now....Y2J just leave it there. Sure half the dummy kids won't get the Y2K connection but to hell with them, he is old and will out soon.

It is why I was so upset watching stupid shows like Tough Enough, they asked what will your ring name be you had the Yeti, the Gator wrassler, they should have just said....I am going to use my real name like you morons.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I wonder if any of you would complain if WWE did "Be A Star" during the "Attitude Era".

A lot of you seem to bag "Be A Star" and WWE being involved in it. Over the years, many of the IWC accused the WWE of hypocrisy of supporting ant-bullying, while having "bully characters".

Is that because, deep down, a lot of the IWC are actually bullies, and so don't want to see "anti-bullying problems"? I suspect that many of you are, based on the "bullying" that goes on this board all the time, if you hold an alternate view to the majority here. You gang up on people who support Cena or Reigns and WWE. I have been bullied on here for not thinking that everything WWE has done over the years is wrong, and called a "fanboy" or a sycophant (when I have been critical of the product at times as well, especially the drug culture that WWE allowed to fester for years). If the mods here were less concerned about modding me for not putting a post in the proper thread, and more on bullying behaviour, this board can be cleaned up and there would be more balanced posting here.

Also, many of you are fans of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, the biggest bully in WWE history, who picked on the weak on-screen, gave stunners to everyone, and in real life, hits women. Many say that you "relate" to a character like SCSA, and maybe it manifests in standing over other people and mocking and making fun of those who disagree with you.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

So Bret Hart becomes a "bad guy" after beating up Austin with a chair post-match, but Cena doesn't after doing the same thing with Barrett, huh?

Great logic. Plus Hart had many reasons to be upset, with Austin screwing him over and over. But none of you said "Austin had it coming".

 

[enviousdominous]

So Bret Hart becomes a "bad guy" after beating up Austin with a chair post-match, but Cena doesn't after doing the same thing with Barrett, huh?

There's a big difference in likability between Steve Austin and Wade Barrett. Steve had just wrestled one of the greatest matches of all time, Wade was some dork-ass who was in the way while fans were anticipating a more intense feud for John Cena.

Great logic.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Plus Hart had many reasons to be upset, with Austin screwing him over and over. But none of you said "Austin had it coming".

Very few Americans said "Austin had it coming", there's no science that applies to properly appealing to a pro-wrestling audience. By and large; Canadian fans were -- to put it mildly -- pretty fucking pissed off (aye) at Austin, Bret was the conduit for their rage.

 

[Xemmy]

Also, many of you are fans of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, the biggest bully in WWE history, who picked on the weak on-screen, gave stunners to everyone, and in real life, hits women. Many say that you "relate" to a character like SCSA, and maybe it manifests in standing over other people and mocking and making fun of those who disagree with you.

That's the point that hits closer to home. The real life translation. How the company does business, how Vince and others act behind the scene, how unfair the business model is on their wrestlers compared to other sports (and they know it). And of course. As you so rightly pointed out, how bullies get to the top and get away with shit like beating their wife like it's a minor blotch on an otherwise perfect record. That's just one example of the over all company attitude. If there was ever a campaign that the company simply doesn't believe in, it's the Be-A-STAR campaign.

 

[d_henderson1810]

That's the point that hits closer to home. The real life translation. How the company does business, how Vince and others act behind the scene, how unfair the business model is on their wrestlers compared to other sports (and they know it). And of course. As you so rightly pointed out, how bullies get to the top and get away with shit like beating their wife like it's a minor blotch on an otherwise perfect record. That's just one example of the over all company attitude. If there was ever a campaign that the company simply doesn't believe in, it's the Be-A-STAR campaign.

But my point is that many of the IWC here, bag WWE's involvement in "Be A Star", and yet show favoritism to bullies in the company, so it proves that many of the IWC are bullies themselves.

It isn't just that many of the IWC questioning WWE being involved in it, but the need for "BAS" to exist in the first place, as in, kids should just toughen up and get over it. This is shown by many posts posted here, where anyone with a different point of view than the majority is mocked and harshly criticised, rather than having their point discussed intelligently. People here don't act ration when someone says that they like Cena or Roman Reigns, and are called all sorts of names, so I can see why many of you don't want "Be A Star" to exist, so that you can continue on your sociopathic ways.

 

[Blade]

There's something very instinctive in humans of all ages that makes us want to see the bad guy suffer. We want Scar to get ripped apart by the hyenas. We want Link to shove his sword into Ganon's skull. We want Frieza to get sliced in half. Hell, everyone and their mom rejoiced when Dolores Umbridge was dragged off into the Forbidden Forest by centaurs, even though that scene implied some really fucked up shit. If there's someone we hate, we want to know they're gonna get what's coming to them, because, as humans, we're very petty when it comes to the characters we despise.

So when John Cena rains chairs down on Barrett, or hurts Batista after he's already quit, we love that shit. It's everything we ever wanted to do to our high school bully or to that boss who treated us like shit. It's a guilty pleasure, and anyone who denies feeling it is a liar or a robot.

You don't see heroes like Spider-man, Batman, Superman, Captain America and even vigilantes like Daredevil beat up the bad guy, if there's no reason to.

This is blatantly untrue. Spiderman is a narcissist who verbally bullies all of his nemeses for no reason. Batman has beaten the ever-living shit out of an unarmed Joker on numerous occasions in multiple media forms. Captain America is now a part of Hydra, for christ's sake.

The fact is, even heroes are flawed. The good ones, at least. And that's okay, because the flaws are what make them good heroes. We need them to be insecure, we need them to be hypocrites, we even need them to be vengeful at times, because that's how we relate to them. And showing kids that it's okay to be flawed is a good thing, surely?

And 3 instances of wrath on the part of Cena still makes him a better human being than any of us. If you had bad guys doing terrible shit to you for 13 years, and you only snapped a handful of times? That's practically superhuman.

Good people can do bad things sometimes. But the amount of times Cena has actually turned the other cheek, and possibly even forgiven some of his foes, is impressive. I mean, let's remember for a second that Randy Orton kicked Cena's father in the fucking head. The fact that Orton is alive to tell the tale proves that Cena is one hell of a hero.

Now, as for the Be A Star stuff... Well, the IWC has this weird hatred for children. Hardcore wrestling fans like to mock children for cheering John Cena or Roman Reigns, probably because that's the only way some of them feel less like flacid losers.

But we underestimate the intelligence of kids constantly. It's almost like we forget what it was like to be a kid. Maybe it's just me, but I never thought that the wrestlers I saw on TV were the same people when they were off TV. Surely most of us knew that distinction?

The fact is, most children know the difference between what's real and what's staged. Kids know that wrestling is fake, and that people are portraying characters. They know that when John Cena talks on a stage about not being a bully, that it's not quite the same John Cena you see on TV. But because they see him on TV, and because he has brought a lot of joy to their lives, they listen to him.

So that's about it. I've rambled on for a while, but the points are in there somewhere. The audience is allowed to enjoy a bad guy suffering. Heroes are allowed to have moments of weakness as long as they strive to be good people in general. And kids can tell the fucking difference between fiction and reality.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

In wrestling, faces get revenge on heels. That's what happens. The heel initially gets the upper hand or unfair advantage on the face (Barrett making Cena join Nexus). This enrages the face (Cena) and provides 'heat' for the feud. Then they wrestle at a PPV (or some other show), and the face gets revenge (Cena dropping chairs on Barrett). What you see on screen is a work. I mean, what do you expect? Cena to peacefully leave Nexus and not show any signs of violence? This is pro wrestling. There's a certain level of violence that will be there. Kids are happy. Cena beat the big bad Wade Barrett, and he's free from Nexus.