Some Sin Cara thoughts and questions

[shitsngiggles]

Was just reading the other Sin Cara threads and I find the whole story here quite interesting with what might happen between Mistico and Hunico.

Just trying to figure some things out and have a few ideas you may find interesting.

1: First of all, the "botched moves" was it Hunico who had to totally redo a match? Or was it Mistico? (I don't watch Smackdown, so wouldn't know) Obviously it was Hunico last night on Raw right? And he had an almost flawless (slighly slow) match, apart from what looked like was supposed to go into an arm bar gone went wrong, and turned into some kind of hurricanerana. They covered it well though I thought.

Anyway, doesn't this prove it is the WWE talent who makes these 2 guys look bad? They have both botched moves up now. Even a whole match had to be re-done.

2: Why not work an angle when moves do get botched?

I was thinking something along the lines of, they miss moves sometimes because they move too quickly and the other wrestler is too slow or doesn't know what is coming.

Why not, when the moves go wrong have whoever is in the Sin Cara mask go totally nuts on the other guy? Like he gets so pissed at not landing his move that he starts really laying into whoever he is facing.

3: I like the idea of a Real Vs Fake Sin Cara match, but what happens when Hunico is "unmasked" ? Keep him on for an ongoing feud? It is obvious to me they need atleast one other guy who knows the lucha libre style to fight with him. They can't really have him go against Rey in my eyes not with enough weight anyway seeing as they are both in the "babyface" category.

 

[theawesomerohit]

well the character has no flavor right now maybe the mix of fake Sin cara and the original bring something to the character!!!

 

[4LC]

end him, mistico was great til wwe had to suspend him for using stuff for his knee (anabolic related) and this hunico dude is just ruining sin caras name he botches more than mistico and and everyone can tell by the build that its not mistico because mistico was defined and lean and this guy is just flabby

 

[VinnieSunshine]

WWE has lost ALL faith in Mystico, thats why they apparently sent him home last week back to Mexico.

They really need him to work more matches with WWE guys to get the style down. WWE really threw him to the wolves by not getting him some training.

I say, let Hunico (even though he's slower) do the Sin Cara character and send Mystico down to FCW for awhile. THEN, you can bring him up when he's ready and make him another masked wrestler if you want.

With rumor of the Crusierweight division being built back up, you're going to need guys to fill spots that can really work.


As far as botched moves...there really is no telling who exactly is responsible for it. I heard that maybe Heath Slater didn't know how to work with Mystico, thats maybe why that match had to be redone. As I saw it last night, Hunico looked like he had to wait for Swagger to get into position.

You cant work an angle based on botched moves. Wrestling is supposed to be flawless. Pointing out botched moves is just eliminating the illusion. Wrestling is a sport...in Basketball or football, if you dont make your shots or catch the ball like you're supposed to, you get benched or sent back to the minors. Thats what (sort of) happened to Mystico.

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

I think that WWE blames Mistico and Hunicho becuase they aren't WWE breed guy's.
And also for the fact it's more of their opponet's messing up more than them. I mean was it Mistico's fault Primo fell of the top rope? But he got blamed for that. The match with Heath Slater, Heath clearly dropped Mistico but he got the blame for it too. I just the WWE muscle heads only know WWE style wrestling now. So when wrestling him they screw up an Mistico, an Hunicho get the blame. An I believe Mistico went through FCW but I don't know for how long though.

An working an angle about botched moves um NO. It would just tell the whole world hey this match is scripited to the T. An who take even more crediablty from both wrestlers. So I see that as a down fall.

AN maybe after the Sin Cara vs Sin Cara match, they could feud with ADR, and if they make him active possibly Ricardo. Or the likes of Kofi, Evan and a few other guys.

 

[Hunted-RKO]

Just end the chracter,i was excited to see what Mistico could do but his style is completly different to the WWE style and the guys can't sell his moves or keep up with him.Mistico is a great talent and all but his been wasted by the WWE,i blame the WWE for it.They rushed him to quickly,I dont understand why they didn't send him to FCW to learn most of the WWE style like Del Rio did and also teach him English.WWE's fault and now there thinking were all so dumb by getting another person to play the chracter.Hunico is doing what is asked and he dosen't realy derserve the hate.But personally Mistico is 2X better than Hunico,Also WWE are disrectping the mexican fans in my mind as Mistico is so big there and the fans love him,they will be pissed there getting someone else to play Sin Cara.They either let Mistico be Sin Cara or Release him.Sorry for going off thread.

Anyway,no disrespect but thats a stupid Idea about you should make an angle when moves get botched? Just let the match continue or let him act like his hurt and the oppentant gets in control.Just do the Sin Cara Vs Fake Sin Cara fued which Mistico wins,no need to unmask Hunico because he didn't do nothing wrong so just leave it like that.Just have mistico wear the white&gold attire he had on at MITB and then you will know who is who,and by there body figure aswell.Im not sure Mistico has learn't any English yet so it will be very intresting to see how they do this fued (if they do) without doing any mic-work?

 

[shitsngiggles]

Maybe I shouldn't have said an angle on the botches, they shouldn't be botched at all obviously. What I meant was if it does happen, have some kind of "backup plan" I don't know how it could work just an idea.

I like the character I think they definately either rushed it and needed more time to develop him or maybe he just isn't the right fit for the company.

Ray has a similar style of moves but he tends to keep things a lot more simple and most of the high flying moves him and people like Bourne do are in a way "solo" I.E. most of the time the only person who needs to concentrate on the move being done is the person doing it.

The Sin Cara moveset involves a lot of involvement, positioning and timing on the other guys.

What do you think about that?

 

[Odisho]

people keep on blaming hunico but hunico's great in the ring, trust me i'v seen Hunico vs Seth rolling and they worked so well together. the only reason hunico botches is because he doing sin caras moves, so its hard for him. and when sin cara and hunico feud, hunico already has a mask of his own, and its cooler than sin caras.

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

Maybe I shouldn't have said an angle on the botches, they shouldn't be botched at all obviously. What I meant was if it does happen, have some kind of "backup plan" I don't know how it could work just an idea.

I like the character I think they definately either rushed it and needed more time to develope him or maybe he just isn't the right fit for the company.

Ray has a similar style of moves but he tends to keep things a lot more simple and most of the high flying moves him and people like Bourne do are in a way "solo" I.E. most of the time the only person who needs to concentrate on the move being done is the person doing it.

The Sin Cara moveset involves a lot of involvement, positioning and timing on the other guys.

What do you think about that?

That is very true and is why it is merely not as much Sin Cara's fault as his opponets. This is why Rey's moveset has been cut down to size and the same with Bourne. The guy's in WWE are just not use to it, and they can not handle someone moving all over them and being so quick. They are more HW then CW. CW work best with guy's around their size and skill level. As for Rey having a solo offense of higher spots is due to age and again guy's not being able to handle them crawling around on them. So they give Rey a few good spots and him an his opponet need to make em look good. A tilt a whirl style move is easy to do for the guy doing it. But for the guy holding him and taking more of the bump makes it harder. Gotta no what the guy is doing and remebering what bump it is. Tilt a whirl moves can become many styles of moves I.e Arm bar, side slam, head siccors, counter into back breaker etc. So I still think the botches are more on Sin Caras' opponet vs Sin Cara.

 

[Hunted-RKO]

Maybe I shouldn't have said an angle on the botches, they shouldn't be botched at all obviously. What I meant was if it does happen, have some kind of "backup plan" I don't know how it could work just an idea.

I like the character I think they definately either rushed it and needed more time to develop him or maybe he just isn't the right fit for the company.

Ray has a similar style of moves but he tends to keep things a lot more simple and most of the high flying moves him and people like Bourne do are in a way "solo" I.E. most of the time the only person who needs to concentrate on the move being done is the person doing it.

The Sin Cara moveset involves a lot of involvement, positioning and timing on the other guys.

What do you think about that?

Hmm,About the botch thing.Well maybe he could be aggresive and use more effective moves on his opennant if they botch.But I don't think this should happen at all.

We don't even know anything about Sin Cara (the chracter) because he aint shown no emotion because you can't see his eyes and also he aint been on the mic aswell.The thing is Rey Mysterio can speak English,mistico can't thats why Rey dont botch.And take in the fact that everyone knows what rey does next coz his limited now due to his knees.WWE can't change Sin Cara's moveset because its what his about but just teach him more WWE style luchador moves if you understand what I mean.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

I just don't understand the character. I know that the Mistico gimmick was supposed to have some sort of religious influence and what not, but what exactly is a man without a face supposed to mean? and whats with the low orange lighting? no wonder the poor guy botches everything, between the orange film they put over his eyes and the darkened arena during his matches, the guy probably can't see a fucking thing. maybe they should turn the lights up and give him a mask that doesn't have built in sun glasses and see if things improve any.

 

[4realpeoples]

I just don't understand the character. I know that the Mistico gimmick was supposed to have some sort of religious influence and what not, but what exactly is a man without a face supposed to mean? and whats with the low orange lighting? no wonder the poor guy botches everything, between the orange film they put over his eyes and the darkened arena during his matches, the guy probably can't see a fucking thing. maybe they should turn the lights up and give him a mask that doesn't have built in sun glasses and see if things improve any.

Ask Mistico what "without a face" is supposed to mean because he chose the name Sin Cara for WWE. The film over his eyes is nothing new to him. The Mistico mask has the exact same cover for the eyes. The mood lighting for Sin Cara matches might make it harder for Mistico/Hunico to see during a match, but I wouldn't know for sure.

WWE has been scouting and wanting to sign Mistico since 2007. It's a shame what's happening with him now but blame does go on both Mistico and WWE. Cara failed a drug test. His fault. WWE replacing Mexico's favorite luchador with Hunico? Horrible idea. Especially with the upcoming tour of Mexico. WWE has turned their multi-year hopes into pure garbage.

 

[shitsngiggles]

That is very true and is why it is merely not as much Sin Cara's fault as his opponets. This is why Rey's moveset has been cut down to size and the same with Bourne. The guy's in WWE are just not use to it, and they can not handle someone moving all over them and being so quick. They are more HW then CW. CW work best with guy's around their size and skill level. As for Rey having a solo offense of higher spots is due to age and again guy's not being able to handle them crawling around on them. So they give Rey a few good spots and him an his opponet need to make em look good. A tilt a whirl style move is easy to do for the guy doing it. But for the guy holding him and taking more of the bump makes it harder. Gotta no what the guy is doing and remebering what bump it is. Tilt a whirl moves can become many styles of moves I.e Arm bar, side slam, head siccors, counter into back breaker etc. So I still think the botches are more on Sin Caras' opponet vs Sin Cara.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. Seen a few other people here who mentioned similar things aswell.

Hmm,About the botch thing.Well maybe he could be aggresive and use more effective moves on his opennant if they botch.But I don't think this should happen at all.

We don't even know anything about Sin Cara (the chracter) because he aint shown no emotion because you can't see his eyes and also he aint been on the mic aswell.The thing is Rey Mysterio can speak English,mistico can't thats why Rey dont botch.And take in the fact that everyone knows what rey does next coz his limited now due to his knees.WWE can't change Sin Cara's moveset because its what his about but just teach him more WWE style luchador moves if you understand what I mean.

Yeah something like that, he misses a move (make it look like a counter) And he comes back at whoever he is up against and takes them down another way or something along them lines.

Don't make Sin Cara look bad out of it, make whoever is fighting with look like they countered him and this gets Sin Cara mad.

And yeah I agree the moves are Sin Cara, because he doesn't have a character as such at the moment.

Ask Mistico what "without a face" is supposed to mean because he chose the name Sin Cara for WWE. The film over his eyes is nothing new to him. The Mistico mask has the exact same cover for the eyes. The mood lighting for Sin Cara matches might make it harder for Mistico/Hunico to see during a match, but I wouldn't know for sure.

WWE has been scouting and wanting to sign Mistico since 2007. It's a shame what's happening with him now but blame does go on both Mistico and WWE. Cara failed a drug test. His fault. WWE replacing Mexico's favorite luchador with Hunico? Horrible idea. Especially with the upcoming tour of Mexico. WWE has turned their multi-year hopes into pure garbage.

Maybe the Mexico tour is the reason behind him being signed and rushed and the same reason which was going to lift the WWE in the Mexican market has now turned out to be a problem because of what has happened.

Something else I thought of which doesn't make sense because of what has happened with Hunico was that maybe the "Sent home" part was a bit of a work. But I very much doubt it.

Anyway, we'll see what happens tonight on Smackdown, maybe Mistico will return to face Del Rio.

 

[Hunted-RKO]

Aparently Del Rio might not be back in time to face Sin Cara coz he might not make it back due to his Visa and is doing Paper-Work.So the chance to actually see Mistico show all his Moveset without Botching is now probly not going to happen.And I thought that coz it's Cara VS Del Rio then Maybe Mistico will work this match.

 

[shitsngiggles]

Aparently Del Rio might not be back in time to face Sin Cara coz he might not make it back due to his Visa and is doing Paper-Work.So the chance to actually see Mistico show all his Moveset without Botching is now probly not going to happen.And I thought that coz it's Cara VS Del Rio then Maybe Mistico will work this match.

Just seen that on the main page

Oh well, still looking forward to seeing some live Smackdown for a change! And seeing if anything comes out on this episode.

 

[Carpathian Florist]

What is the obsession with botching anyhow?
Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has tripped walking at least once and that's easy, doing high risk, cruiserweight moves is as the name would imply, "high risk", a botch is bound to happen.
I have no idea why this is so frowned upon.
Botching a move, then setting up for the same thing again to do it right is ridiculous. Botching a move, then moving onto something different would be perfectly natural.
Imagine if you were carrying a box along the street, with it perched on one shoulder and then it slipped off and fell to the ground, would you pick it up and go back to the beginning of the street, put it back where it was and try again?
Of course not, you would realise holding it like that didn't work, so you'd hold it in a different position and carry on from where you were.
I think it should be the same in matches, so you go for some flip move involving holding the other guy's arm and you slip, falling onto your face, that is highly likely to happen in real life, so why call it a botch? It's a mistake on the wrestler's part, sure, but why openly point out it's a mistake? Why not suspend disbelief and say "He tried, but didn't have the leverage/momentum" or something like that...

 

[Hunted-RKO]

Just seen that on the main page

Oh well, still looking forward to seeing some live Smackdown for a change! And seeing if anything comes out on this episode.

I expect SD to be good because according to reports WWE want to make this A PPV quality show so they can secure a spot for tuesdays.I think this is due to them not wanting to go head to head with UFC on friday nights.Anyway SD will be good and was also reported that it will go over-time and will be more than 2 hours So Im looking foward to it.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

The film over his eyes is nothing new to him. The Mistico mask has the exact same cover for the eyes.

You sure? because I've seen quite a few videos of Mistico from Japan and Mexico, as well as pictures of a lot of his different masks, and all but one or two that I've seen had the open eyes.

WWE replacing Mexico's favorite luchador with Hunico? Horrible idea.

This actually doesn't bother me so much as them continuing to talk about "Sin Cara's" box office draws around the world and accomplishments (i.e. Mistico's box office draws from around the world and accomplishments) when it isn't Mistico under the hood anymore... that is VERY disrespectful to the work that Mistico has done, because "Mistico" drew that, "Sin Cara" hasn't drawn shit and neither has Hunico

 

[donnelllangs]

If they do have a sin cara vs fake sin cara, people will know the real sin cara because he points at his opponents. I have yet to see the fake sin cara do that.

 

[mral82]

I think Sin Cara II(Mystico) is doing better because he's only made 1 botch as Sin Cara I (Mistico) made many more cause he probably told the WWE he was ready to go up to the main roster as opposed to goin to FCW to learn the WWE style. Both were named Mistico, Mystico at one point but the latter change his name to Incognito to avoid he company legal troubles then. It would be Alvride's fault if he was released by not following company policy and speaking willingly about it while employed. If I was working for the WWE, UFC, MLB, NBA, NFL, TNA or wherever and I was in his spot I would keep my mouth shut and not talk company policies with no one.

 

[Amazing Blue]

Well considering what just went down, I think the Sin Cara Character just got a helluva lot more interesting. That heel turn was completely out of the blue and I personally didn't see it coming. Good way to spice things up for Cara. I think WWE noticed that the character was getting old too.

 

[LuChava]

Part of me thinks this has always been the plan with Hunico turning and Mistico returning in Mexico. Selfishly, I want to think the IWC made the WWE bring mistico back. Let's face it having Hunico as Sin Cara has not hurt business and after awhile people would have gotten over it. I hope Hunico eventually goes to the black Sin Cara mask vs Misticos white mask. If they continue to build him up as a heel correctly the Mexico City show is gonna be electric and people will shit their pants when Mistico comes out to confront Sin Cara.

 

[Hunted-RKO]

After what Happen this must lead To Misrico returning and taking out Hunico who is trying to be Sin Cara,WWE haven't Released him and he is still with the Comapany.WWE know how popular Mistico is in Mexico and they can't risk releasing him and letting someone else potray the Character or else they will get Huge Heat for it.This does though make the Cara Character more intresting as his now a Heel,im curious to know how Long WWE wait to bring back Mistico to confront Hunico (If they do bring him back).

 

[flawd101]

the heel turn was great. SC2 doesn't fly as high and is slower in the ring so im glad they are giving him a personality. it also opens the door to have SC1 work with a spanish speaking rival on his level if he does return. i think SC1 will be back because mysterio is hurt and wwe will not want to lose the $50 a mask revenue. SC1 coming back to save d bryan, SC2 leaving and d bryan attacking the good sin cara when he gets up.

 

[shitsngiggles]

Here's how I "think" this story has unfolded thus far.

WWE Suspends Mistico, and almost straight away thinks "crap! mexico tour coming up!!" So they go to Hunico and bring him in.

Then after the ban is lifted they can't make up their mind on how to go forward with the story, obviously people know Hunico played Sin Cara.

Now the real Sin Cara returns and they have both guys there ready to go fight as Sin Cara, creative probably has a plan A and a plan B on how to go on with the story and they pick whatever plan was a Good Vs Evil Cara.

Just some speculation, but that's the way I see how it all went down.

Some other ideas, how they could further tie this in with the current storylines:

Maybe they are even trying to make the WWE Corporate a "Heel" By suspending him and then apparently sending him home. Giving the WWE additional heat by using a different guy to do the Sin Cara character.

Sin Cara then turns heel as we have seen already on SD and the real one comes back for revenge against both Hunico and the WWE (Good Sin Cara).

Perhaps the original will become part of some kind of good guy group that is linked with CM Punk against the Corp and the Bad Sin Cara will join forces with Nash/Whoever else is going to be the heel and dominant group in the WWE.

Both original and bad Sin Cara get a nice run of good fights against eachover, giving them both more practice on the big stage, increased confidence and bringing them both up to a non-botching high level of pro wrestling.