So how do you get "over" as a heel?

[kieransuarez7]

This is my first thread so here it goes...

Ive really been thinking about this lately because of the Del Rio situation, I've seen loads of people on here talking about how Alberto Del Rio isnt "over" as a heel champ, So...

How do you get over as a heel?

In my opinion, WWE may have missed a chance with ADR if they Depush him. I think he has all the tools to become one of the greatest heels of all time! Yes, i said OF ALL TIME! He just screams heel, his look, accent, attire, move-set etc... Everything says heel about him and i think given the right storylines he could become a great heel champion!

I agree with most of you who say he isnt "over" or doesnt generate enough heat but... I actually blame the creative for most of this! In my opinion, they havent tried hard enough or given him good enough storylines to get himself over! I think they panicked when ADR didnt get over or generate alot of heat as champ, but give the guy a chance... He had 4 WEEKS!! 4 WEEKS and then they panicked and stuck the strap back on Cena!


So this bega a few Questions....

How do you get over/generate heat as a heel?
Should ADR have had more heat/gotten over as champ by now?
Would you have done anything differently to help get him over?

I know the classic scenario is normally to attack and feud with the biggest Face, by feuding with Cena that is exactly what Del Rio was doing while he was champ.

BUT.... hear me out, i think this is a good point!
Cena is the biggest face, Yes BUT he is cheered by half and booed by half which mean that if you are feuding or attacking Cena you are probably getting booed by half and cheered by half aswell.. True? So maybe, feuding with Cena was not the automatic heat generator they hoped for ADR. Maybe he would of gotten much more over and more heat if he was feuding with Orton... who gets a definate Face pop every time he comes out!

which begs another 2 Qs...
Is Cena the wrong person to feud with if you want major heat?
And
Would ADR have gotten over as heel if he fueded with Orton??

Sorry to ramble on but i would really like some opinions...

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Big wrestla make peeeepal go booooooo!

Any way in all seriousness the combination of cheap heat, creative insults, and annoyance is what he people over as heels. The reason del Rio didn't get over was because he really didn't excel at saying anything but his name and his destiny. Nothing that cena nor orton could do would get del Rio if del Rio still said the same thing over and over.

 

[mikde_]

How do you get over/generate heat as a heel?

I think in this day and age you need a real reason for people to hate you, you cant just go out there and be a bad guy. You need to connect on 2 totally different levels. You play the simple Heel handbook to make the kids hate you and i think you need a real reason for the older gen to hate you. The Miz and his reality background for example.

Should ADR have had more heat/gotten over as champ by now?

He has been pushed hard for almost a year and nothing has changed. The guy just cant draw that much of a reaction. It's a shame because i dig his whole gimmick and ability but his poor english has not helped him.

Is Cena the wrong person to feud with if you want major heat?

The biggest Face in the company? of course not. Believe it or not but alot of people do actually like him.

Would ADR have gotten over as heel if he fueded with Orton??

No. He didnt get over when he won the rumble, He didnt really get over when he won mitb and he didnt get over as WWE champ.

Oh and you should change the title of this to "What do you think about Alberto Del Rio?" cause thats all we are talking about.

 

[kieransuarez7]

To be honest I didn't another Del Rio thread as I've read a lot! This thread can apply to whatever heels present or past. Like Edge, HHH, Orton.. When they were big heels what did they do well to get heat? What feuds really established them as heels?

 

[Pat9010]

He/she has to be a villain! Not just a bad guy who gets shown up every week. People have to believe he is a threat to the face and have some doubt that the face can handle them in a match. Not what Del Rio and Christian are now...

 

[Dagger Dias]

What heels should do to get over is do everything they possibly can to make the fans HATE them. Miz and Jericho have a great promo style that get heel reactions. Edge did as well when he was a heel. Randy Orton during his "Age of Orton" reign is yet another example. JBL was one of the best at it. These guys made the fans want to pay money to see them get hurt. That is a heel's job. Do promos that will make fans angry at you. Do things that hurt a face whether that be physically or emotionally. Winning matches helps too, no one wants to see a joke who rarely wins in a high profile feud. Evil promos, hurting faces, and winning mayches. That is how heels get over.

In Del Rio's case.... He did the best he could. He had heelish promos, a personal announcer cheating for him in matches, winning matches, and a MITB cash in always looks good on a heel's resume. It wasn't feuding with Cena that hurt him. It was the booking. The feud was Summerslam main event worthy, yet they ruined it by bad booking. It became an afterthought to Punk and Trips.

Cena is the top face and he makes every feud he is in look important. He was the right guy for Del Rio to feud with. Things would have gone even worse if he had stayed on Smackdown and feuded with Orton, although Orton might have had better matches with him. It's the booking's fault that Del Rio is not over enough. There is only so much he can do on his own, we as fans can help him grow as a heel by booing him. WWE will support a heel who the fans react negatively to. You're SUPPOSED to dislike them.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I think there are two main types of heel personas:

1) The cowardly heel, for this persona to get over you need a hell of a lot of charisma otherwise you just become a joke and the second thing you need is back up. Cheep wins only help the boos reign down as does the cocky interviews you give. Just look at these examples: Flair (with the Horsemen), Hogan (with the nWo), HBK (with Diesel and then DX) or 'Rated R' Edge (with Lita and then with Vickie, Chavo & the Major Brothers).

2) The monster, generally doesn't have to say much (and may have a mouthpiece) but is portrayed as unstoppable. Fans boo these guys out of fear for their favourites. Examples include Big Van Vader in WCW, Brock Lesnar, Kane and the current incarnation of Mark Henry.

These basic concepts have been used for a long long time and it is amazing how many times you look at heels who have been deemed failures that seem to have it all that don't follow these descriptions (like ADR and Christian).

 

[RicoLen]

There is one more type of heel, though I suppose you could argue it's a sub-category of the cowardly heel, and that's the whiner. Kurt Angle, The Rock, & R-Truth were all whiners at some point.

They get over by complaining non-stop and usually ranting at/about the audience. They're not cowards, they don't often back down from a fight, and if they do it's just because they're trying to annoy their opponent and the audience. They are obnoxious as can be, right up until the bell rings and then they're crafty fighters, cheating when they can but mostly taking it to their opponent.

If you've got the charisma this is the way to go. You can make the crowd love to hate you by being a smartass. In fact it's such a great way to go, and usually is so funny and infuriating at the same time that there's a style of humor dedicated to 'playing the heel.'

The best way to get over as a whiner is to take the cheap heat tricks to the next level. You talk about their town and how it sucks, you talk about the local sports teams, or the hometown hero, etc. and you start out with that and trash talk those things, if you've got them at your disposal canceling the sing-along works wonders. People absolutely (love to) HATE it when you cancel the sing-along, then you trash talk your opponent.

First however you have to create the sing-along. This was done best by Hollywood Rock. Everyone knows The Rock's catch phrases. He's got tons of them and the people love to say them along with you. This is the sing-along. When Hollywood Rock started his catch phrase of "If ya smell what The Rock is cooking" He'd stop in the middle of it, and you'd hear the crowd go on without him and he'd trash talk them for it.

Kurt Angle used the "What!?" chants to give the crowd a way to involve themselves in his promos, and crowds WANT to feel included in a promo. If a wrestler gets out there and goes on and on and on, chances are the crowds gonna fall asleep or heckle the wrestler. So when Kurt started getting the audience involved (via noob singles star Edge) in his promos and entrances by getting his opponent to chant "You Suck!" during his entrance theme and "What!?" during his promos, he gave them a chance to heckle him in a manner he could control just with the timing of his speech during his promos. He allowed the crowd's "What!?" chants to foil him mid-promo. It was complete genius. Even better though was when he canceled that sing-along by saying "Stupid crowd says what?" "WHAT!?" awe SOB he got us.

R-Truth's progression as a heel has kind of taken a detour with his teaming up with The Miz, but Truth was doing great when he first turned. Calling out Little Jimmy was smart, and then he baited the audience just like Kurt Angle did with his "Don't What!? me!" but he's at the point now that if he's going to continue to get over he needs to cancel the sing-along, his way. IMO he should start using "Cause I'm a good R-Truth" as his signoff to his promo's like Austin used "And that's the bottom line, cause Stone Cold says so." this will get the crowd into saying "I'm a good R-Truth" as well. The crowd loves that line, and once he starts using it to signoff after every promo the crowd will want to say it along with him, then all he needs to do is stop after he says "Cause I'm a go..." the crowd will keep going with "goooooood R-Truth" and while they're doing that he can say "Ya'll pissin me the hell off! Nah don't boo me, you SHOULD be booing yourselves!"

Anyways, this is how you build a whiner that can get over with the crowd. The heel engages the crowd, argues with them, bitches, whines, and complains every time they lose, about how it's not their fault, and then in the matches themselves they can still wrestle just like they would have as a face, except that they'll cheat whenever they get the chance too.

That's the problem with being the coward. The coward very rarely uses their whole repertoire of signature moves in any given match. Mr. Perfect didn't, The Boy Toy (HBK) didn't, instead they hide, look for help, and cheat. That's why I like the whiner better.

ADR is a good first run heel. He's no Ric Flair, who also got the world title on his first run in the WWF/E as a first run heel, but he did well. ADR is still young, and wrestles well, as he acclimates to the WWE audiences, I think he'll learn what does and does not work. I think the only real problem with ADR was getting pushed to the top of the business. As I said before, ADR is no Ric Flair, at least not yet. I think with the personality ADR has he should be a lot more slimy. He just has that aura of a used car salesman, who acts all friendly and nice and charismatic but in reality is going to stab you in the back. That needs to get amped up, and IMO it should start with him betraying Ricardo Rodriquez, and if not him then he needs to pair up with someone quick, work in a tag team for a while, and then be the guy to betray them. If I were booking ADR I'd have him betraying everyone left and right. First get him working them to trust him and as soon as he gets the chance, he stabs them in the back. But that's just my opinion.

Cena is about as good as it gets for a heel to work with. You'll get people that hate you simply because you're paired up with John Cena.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

That is a great role but a hard one to run straight of the bat, it's more one to develop into. Angle and Rock only really got away with the whiny personas once they had already gotten over - Rock hid behind the NoD and then the Corporation; whilst Angle was an Olympic champion so he got over to an extent as a monster (despite his smaller stature) because you knew he could legitimately wreck his opponent and the whiny side only appeared after the initial run as a cocky heel who could back it up - Angle has always sat well on the fence between the two roles. Truth's initial turn was cowardly, he avoided direct contact with Rey and his avoidance tactics threw Cena off his game on a couple of occasions.

And it has to be said, that it was an act with Flair et al as well. When they had to step up to the plate and wrestle - they did, they might have just flexed the occasional rule. If you start as a whiner, the fans are likely to disregard you - when they accept that you can legitimately get things done without resorting to cheating tactics when you have to, then the fact that you do and might have the gall to whine when things don't go your way... well that's generally a recipe for great heel heat.

 

[RicoLen]

There's a big difference between R-Truth (a whiner) and Honky Tonk Man (a coward). Honky couldn't back up crap either. Perfect could, The Boy Toy could, but they didn't, they were cowards, they hid, they got help constantly, 99% of the time they didn't even use their full moveset. Try watching a good match of Mr. Perfect's where he's the heel, the dominant wrestler, & using his full moveset. Seriously, my hat's off to you if you can show me the match where he used his full moveset as a heel in one match. Move to him as a face, and yeah, he's pulling out all the stops, same with Micheals. But when Micheals was with Sherri, and Mr. Perfect was with Heenan, Genius, Coach, etc. they DIDN'T back it up. They pared back their moveset to look weak and as if the face could have beaten them if they had just not cheated.

R-Truth is going all out, he doesn't have a manager to hide behind (perhaps that's some of the difference too, I'll admit). Perhaps what it really comes down to is that heels today are just different than they were back then. Those guys from the late 80's early 90's that I grew up watching, they were all cowards through and through, unless they were monsters, or the #1 heel, like Savage or Slaughter or Flair. Compare them to Angle, Rock & Truth, it's just night and day difference.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

You have to make the crowd hate you. It is as simple as that. You have to talk them down whenever you get a chance. You have to talk up a big game about how good you are and then when you go out there to have a match, you have got to cheat at every instant and use other such underhanded means. You have got to attack the babyface after his match is over and when he is tired and defenseless. There are also monster heels who operate a bit differently. They are arrogant about their physique and they destroy guys without any rhyme or reason. At times these guys aren't even regular wrestlers. There are a ton of ways of getting over as a heel.

As for Del Rio, the reason he has not gotten over huge is because there is something more interesting going on and that is the angle between Triple H, Punk, Nash, Awesome Truth and Lauranitis. Cena is generally the most interesting part of the show but he isn't one at this point. And no not even Orton would have helped Del Rio get any bigger. The only way he could have gotten more heat was if he had played an active part in the conspiracy angle. Still, there is nothing to despair about. He is still in the second biggest angle of the show and it looks like he is entering into a long feud with Cena. That can only be good for his career in the longer run.