Sick and tired sorry for rant

[Juddagieg]

I'm am getting real tired of some people on this forum and im gunna say something. Im sick of people bitching about WWE not having "great" wrestling. TNA or WSX fanboys always seem to rest their laurels on K-FED's debacle with Cena. That all u hear about. It might be "Yeah at least samoa joe can wrestle in something believable, unloike K Fed and cena". Sure he's great but why u gotta diss the story? Get some new material. Either way, thats storyline got people talking, whther good or bad, people were talking about it! Oh and WSX? When I watched that for the first time, it made me vomit with such bone shattering force that my kidney came thru my nose. It is so lame and gay. Yet we have some litte 8 year olds whom hijack their parents computer to post "TNA + WSX = FUTURE!!!!1!!" That kind of BS just infuriates me. Sure, they watch WSX, see a backflip and fall in love? TNA is at least some bit credible, but not the fans. Why do they continously flame WWE? It's because they know that they are small time, that WWE is larger no matter what, so they attack it out of spite. I haven't seen one WWE fan attack TNA out of spite, unless of course they are fed up with shit like " Donald trump storyling is so gay. GO STING!!!"

But theres is unrest withing WWE fans as well, so pardon my rant. All this bitching about ECW sucks is also infuriating. They say they want ECW the way it used to be. A low budget piece of s***. Though they did have amazing moments it was still...grungy. So what if Vince mcmahon did what u wanted? You'd have two good solid shows and a show with people breaking their necks every week. It would make the company look like a s***box.
Get over this nostalgic ranting, because its never coming back. The new ECW will grow, you can bet ur sweet bippy.

Have I covered most of the common issues that are brought up daily? If theres another to debate plz reply my good reader. Oh and gratz for actually reading this far.

 

[Shadowmancer]

You have some good points in there, but your wrong on what people want out of ECW, they want quality wrestling over the longwinded promos that are now put in there, im certain that If they had two good solid shows and one okay show then people would be a lot happier with what the WWE is putting out as its product. If ECW went to small arenas and was more intimate then that is what people feel is the old ECW more than the Hardcore aspect.

But as to your first point, people do need to stop going on about how TNA + WSX=Future, well WSX doesn't have a future, TNA is going to be big and in competition, that is a good thing for business, WWE has had a monopoly on the Wrestling Industry in terms of the US, for the last few years. I believe that TNA is the future but so are some of the young guys in the WWE. My argument about the quality of WWE is because of the predictability of the storylines and the quality of some of the top Guys that aren't that good.

 

[TheRealDC]

wow... OK, first off, I agree with a little bit of what your saying. I do kind of get aggravated when TNA fans bash WWE because of the lame stories and weak wrestling. The only reason why I get sick and tired of hearing it, is because no one can find the positives in the negatives. I myself, watch all wrestling shows, just because I like watching wrestling, nothing more nothing less. The whole K-Fed thing was just a publicity thing. And it worked for the better part. And press is good press as they say. Whether people bashed it, or whether people cheered it, it got attention. My beef is the fact that WWE tends to focus more on the entertainment factor, which waters down the wrestling factor. Wherein TNA, they focus more on the wrestling factor (at least in PPV, if they went to two hours, then it would be a heavy hitter) they show case their talent. So to break even on it. Neither one of them really out does the other, WWE a few years back, kept even on both sides, kick ass stories, kick ass matches. You really don't get that anymore. WWE matches tend to run the same route every week. Where when the match starts, both competitors are winded and lay on the mat for 3 min. at a time. TNA, they at least keep a good pace in the match, but someone interferes because they need air time.

Now, moving on, WSX... wow... I really have no comment on it, save for the fact that it wasn't bad... but it wasn't very good. Shaking the camera when an "explosion" goes off, does add to the effect people. MTV... is NOT a wrestling station, I think WWE learned that when Heat was on MTV for a short span. Musicians are NOT commentators.

Now... for my favorite part... E.C. F'ing W. OK, back in the day, you are correct, it was low budget, it was grungy. But it had some of the deepest characters EVER. Some of the best storytelling matches and promos EVER. The reason why E.C.W. was so great back in the day is because Paul Heyman ran it. Paul E. knew what the fans wanted, and he would deliver. As for the hardcore style that E.C.W. had, that was the wrestlers choice, because Paul gave them that option. He gave the wrestlers freedom, and ran the company from the sides. And I don't want to hear anyone ever say that Paul ran E.C.W. down the drain, he didn't. He created something that was so taboo, that no one wanted to put it on their TV station. Vince McMahon bled money into E.C.W. to keep it afloat, but couldn't hold two promotions together with just loose ties. In the end Paul would be brought to WWE and the wrestlers would be left astray.

But anyway, the E.C.W. fans NEVER wanted to see their wrestlers get hurt. The reason why E.C.W. fans are so clingy to the past product is because it was something special. The wrestlers interacted with the fans. The fans were 45% of the show. When they say, "hardcore" they don't mean blood on the mat, and barbed wire baseball bats, they mean "hardcore" as in, he will do anything to keep us entertained. E.C.W. didn't really need the blood and guts, but the wrestlers were willing to go that extra mile for the fans. Thats what made it special. You felt like Tommy Dreamer just lost a pint of blood, because he wanted to beat his opponent for YOU! So you my friend, can tell me E.C.W. will grow and bet my sweet bippy. And I will watch it to see if it does. But unless you give Paul Heyman complete creative control, and you let the originals win, and you let the originals FACE each other... THEN, it will beat the old product. Nowadays, I will piss my pants and eat my own turds if at the next PPV its Tommy Dreamer vs R.V.D. for the ECW Title. Because that will make all the old school E.C.W. fans happy (including me). Just look at the rematch between the Originals and the New Breed that happened two weeks ago. Listen to the fans, that is what they want to see, they want to see the originals whoop the New Breeds ass, because thats what THEY DID FOR US! They busted their asses, why doesn't the "New Breed" bust theirs!?

I'm just about to edit something in here too, before someone else mentions it... it is rather dumb of the WWE to have clean matches in promotion that was so edgy. E.C.W. was about the total freedom wrestlers had, and if that meant using a chair in every single match... then thats how the cookie crumbled. If they got rid of the "Extreme Rules" B.S. it might be a decent product. Let the wrestlers swing chairs if they want to. Let them use tables every match if they want to. They don't HAVE to go through them, or land a chair shot, but if you give the fans the knowledge that Balls Mahoney can still club someone upside the head with a chair, the less bitching you get.

Thank you.

 

[ExtremeRage81]

I'm am getting real tired of some people on this forum and im gunna say something. Im sick of people bitching about WWE not having "great" wrestling. TNA or WSX fanboys always seem to rest their laurels on K-FED's debacle with Cena. That all u hear about. It might be "Yeah at least samoa joe can wrestle in something believable, unloike K Fed and cena". Sure he's great but why u gotta diss the story? Get some new material. Either way, thats storyline got people talking, whther good or bad, people were talking about it! Oh and WSX? When I watched that for the first time, it made me vomit with such bone shattering force that my kidney came thru my nose. It is so lame and gay. Yet we have some litte 8 year olds whom hijack their parents computer to post "TNA + WSX = FUTURE!!!!1!!" That kind of BS just infuriates me. Sure, they watch WSX, see a backflip and fall in love? TNA is at least some bit credible, but not the fans. Why do they continously flame WWE? It's because they know that they are small time, that WWE is larger no matter what, so they attack it out of spite. I haven't seen one WWE fan attack TNA out of spite, unless of course they are fed up with shit like " Donald trump storyling is so gay. GO STING!!!"

But theres is unrest withing WWE fans as well, so pardon my rant. All this bitching about ECW sucks is also infuriating. They say they want ECW the way it used to be. A low budget piece of s***. Though they did have amazing moments it was still...grungy. So what if Vince mcmahon did what u wanted? You'd have two good solid shows and a show with people breaking their necks every week. It would make the company look like a s***box.
Get over this nostalgic ranting, because its never coming back. The new ECW will grow, you can bet ur sweet bippy.

Have I covered most of the common issues that are brought up daily? If theres another to debate plz reply my good reader. Oh and gratz for actually reading this far.

Okay let me set some things straight here. I have said that I felt TNA is the future of wrestling. I said it and I still believe it. I never said that WSX was the future, just that at least they gave us something new match-wise and that was all it had because the stories and everything else was terrible. And if you honestly think that this so called "ECW" will grow and become big, well I'd love to think like you but I choose to stay in the terms of something called....what is it? Oh yeah: REALITY!!!!!

It's more than just the whole K-Fed wrestling that killed it for me with the WWE. Let me run down the list for you of the things that did the damage for me. And I've watched the WWE since I was 5.

1) John Cena having the belt for as long as he has and that stupid spinner belt being the official belt of the WWE (pretty much at least) and good wrestlers like HBK, Kurt Angle, and Triple H having to put this kid over who sucks in the ring and has to be carried through a match.

2) Making a buck off of Eddie Guerrero's name. Using his name in storylines.

3) The tag team division is prety much dead in the WWE. Just because the Hardy Boyz won the Raw ones doesn't mean anything. They have a lot of work to do.

4) Focusing on crap movies more than the quality of the matches

5) Donald Trump. nuff said.

6) Donald Trump vs Rosie O'Donnell. That ring any bells?

7) ECW (From Extreme Championship Wrestling to Excrutiatingly Painful Wrestling). And if you're really dillusional to believe that it will work, why does it only get half of the ratings smackdown gets? WHy is there only one belt in there? Oh that's right. They don't have enough talent for a 3rd brand that is filled with Raw/Smackdown rejects and the ECW alumni who knew what it once meant and what it stood for.

8) Having the same matches over and over again. Examples: McMahons vs DX, Spirit Squad vs DX, Hardy Boyz vs MNM, Booker T vs Batista, Edge vs John Cena. All these matches and everyone of them were awful because it always ended the same way.

9) THey move too damn slow and the ring looks like it's actually shrunk.

10) The Intercontinental, Tag, U.S., and Cruiserweight belts all meaning nothing like they used to and people having a hard time remembering who is holding these belts.


There is a long list of crap I can go on about but while you believe all this about the WWE, you want to stay as part of the herd of Vince's sheep? Go ahead. But me, I rather find wrestling that focuses on match quality as opposed to this soap opera horse crap.

 

[ExtremeRage81]

Now... for my favorite part... E.C. F'ing W. OK, back in the day, you are correct, it was low budget, it was grungy. But it had some of the deepest characters EVER. Some of the best storytelling matches and promos EVER. The reason why E.C.W. was so great back in the day is because Paul Heyman ran it. Paul E. knew what the fans wanted, and he would deliver. As for the hardcore style that E.C.W. had, that was the wrestlers choice, because Paul gave them that option. He gave the wrestlers freedom, and ran the company from the sides. And I don't want to hear anyone ever say that Paul ran E.C.W. down the drain, he didn't. He created something that was so taboo, that no one wanted to put it on their TV station. Vince McMahon bled money into E.C.W. to keep it afloat, but couldn't hold two promotions together with just loose ties. In the end Paul would be brought to WWE and the wrestlers would be left astray.

But anyway, the E.C.W. fans NEVER wanted to see their wrestlers get hurt. The reason why E.C.W. fans are so clingy to the past product is because it was something special. The wrestlers interacted with the fans. The fans were 45% of the show. When they say, "hardcore" they don't mean blood on the mat, and barbed wire baseball bats, they mean "hardcore" as in, he will do anything to keep us entertained. E.C.W. didn't really need the blood and guts, but the wrestlers were willing to go that extra mile for the fans. Thats what made it special. You felt like Tommy Dreamer just lost a pint of blood, because he wanted to beat his opponent for YOU! So you my friend, can tell me E.C.W. will grow and bet my sweet bippy. And I will watch it to see if it does. But unless you give Paul Heyman complete creative control, and you let the originals win, and you let the originals FACE each other... THEN, it will beat the old product. Nowadays, I will piss my pants and eat my own turds if at the next PPV its Tommy Dreamer vs R.V.D. for the ECW Title. Because that will make all the old school E.C.W. fans happy (including me). Just look at the rematch between the Originals and the New Breed that happened two weeks ago. Listen to the fans, that is what they want to see, they want to see the originals whoop the New Breeds ass, because thats what THEY DID FOR US! They busted their asses, why doesn't the "New Breed" bust theirs!?

I'm just about to edit something in here too, before someone else mentions it... it is rather dumb of the WWE to have clean matches in promotion that was so edgy. E.C.W. was about the total freedom wrestlers had, and if that meant using a chair in every single match... then thats how the cookie crumbled. If they got rid of the "Extreme Rules" B.S. it might be a decent product. Let the wrestlers swing chairs if they want to. Let them use tables every match if they want to. They don't HAVE to go through them, or land a chair shot, but if you give the fans the knowledge that Balls Mahoney can still club someone upside the head with a chair, the less bitching you get.

Thank you.

Okay. I'm in agreement with you about all you said about ECW. HEre's another thing. THey never called what they did "Extreme Rules" Or flash the word extreme cause they thought it sounded cool. They did it because Extreme and Hardcore was what they did and it was what they stood for and they showed it in that ring because it's what they did, not because it was some gimmick to them. Paul Heyman had a connection to the fans and never turned a deaf ear to them and that is something Bischoff and Vince could never acquire.

TO the starter of this thread, trash talk ECW all you want but if it weren't for ECW, you would never know guys like Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio, Super Crazy, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho or Chris Benoit. Hell, even Mick Foley is another one or Steve Austin. Instead of trashing it, you should be thankful for ECW because it brought wrestlers like them to light.


ECW wasn't about body builders either. Yeah, some guys in there were not in the best shape. But if ECW showed anything, it's this. It's that there was a place for everyone inside that ring no matter how fat or how slender or non-muscular you were. If you had the heart and the will to go in there and give every damn thing you had to give the fans what they paid for, then that was more than enough and THAT was what made you hardcore in ECW.

This mere shell of ECW that Vince has created. There is nothing extreme or hardcore about it. The guys that are in there apart from the ECW alumni, know nothing of Extreme or Hardcore and they never will. And when this brand fails and it will, I will be happy to see the bullet go into it's head because many of us that were loyal to ECW in it's purity, would call it a mercy killing when it goes down.

 

[BigBombB]

Actually, Foley and Austin were NWA/WCW guys.

On topic, TNA fans really have no right to glorify their federation and bash WWE for it's faults these days. TNA, though getting slightly better in the past two weeks, has consistently put on horrible television for a long time now. They have all the talent in the world but can't manage to place any of them in a feud that someone might care about. I'm going to guess that TNA fans bash WWE simply to keep conversation from moving to the topic of TNA wrestling, because if it did, we would all find much bigger flaws in TNA practices than we ever would in the WWE.

 

[Juddagieg]

Ok Wow, thx to everyone for replying to my thread so quick. Ill quickly recap before my next adventure. You all had ridiculously good comments.

fisrt of all, I think there is some sort of confusion with ECW.

I loved the old skool stuff. It literally rocked my socks. The fact that there were no boundaries was really cool. You could have Tazz wreslting a terrific match, followed by Sabu going apes*** with a few tables. But most importantly, the wretlers had heart. I find this is what draws people to TNA, the wrestling heart. Select few have it in WWE, and those who do go on to be huge. And these guys are the guys that put over these jokes that nobody likes, eg batista the body builder. Otherwise they end up as junkies. Anyway they had heart they had it all but........
But now times are a changin (thx bob dylan). The writers at WWE arent aiming at that audience anymore. It may be unfortunate but its true. If they re hired heyman and went the flaming tables, steel chair shot every match way. Sure it would be insane, and at sometimes disturbing (BUT STILL INSANE) they would win us "originals" back. but who would they lose? They would lose all our precious cena fanboys. They would lose all of the female watchers who seem revolted at the sight of a jagged piece of shrapnel in a guy head. (EXCEPT FOR THE HARDCORE!)
If they didnt have celebrities on there, eg trump, Kfed hpw culd u attract other viewers.
So, yes, the old ECW was a foundation for the leaning tower of wrestling we have today, but it should stay that way, and let the tip be for all ages.

Ok i flamed too much on "the future" last time so ill do a new one.
The vince "sheeps" (thx extremerage81)
I also despise the attitude era fanboys. Yes they were awesome, we know. Get over it u ******s. Stone cold was great, but theres new cowboys on our hearty ranch now. Its because of u S***balls that vince has to bring in old wrestlers, like mick foley or stone cold to guest referee. Then, the rest of the viewing audience will be bored S*******. Its adding fuel to the TNA fres. " Oh Stone cold just comes in and stunners em"
Please dont say I hate stone cold. He's the shizznit. But people who dont let go of him get the WWE stuck in a f****** time warp and its 3 years before someone new comes along to shake stuff up a bit.

Also some quick aknowledgements,

shadowmancer, you have some interesting points there. I have seen sigs with WSX = Future, which is disturbing lol

DC, nice comments on ECW, and I your ideas for it to grow. You seem to have a lot of heart for that wrestling.

Extremerage81, nice points for urs and nice report all round.

Im just rabbling here so plz feel free to ban me. If you have any issues plz post up for discussion

 

[Juddagieg]

I think the new age outlaws should comeback not only for the tag teams but to bring back the attitude era and get wwe back in ratings it is not going to take only them tho.

ooooooooooohhhhhhhh Take it from here MVP from last weeks smackdown "I've got 4 words for you. I TOLD YOU SO" no joking.

 

[ExtremeRage81]

Actually, Foley and Austin were NWA/WCW guys.

On topic, TNA fans really have no right to glorify their federation and bash WWE for it's faults these days. TNA, though getting slightly better in the past two weeks, has consistently put on horrible television for a long time now. They have all the talent in the world but can't manage to place any of them in a feud that someone might care about. I'm going to guess that TNA fans bash WWE simply to keep conversation from moving to the topic of TNA wrestling, because if it did, we would all find much bigger flaws in TNA practices than we ever would in the WWE.

I'm not bashing ANYTHING so put that to rest. Anytime somebody that watches TNA brings up one negative point of the WWE no matter how big or how little, it's considered bashing. Get this through your head, the only reason we point out these faults is because that's why some of us started watching TNA to begin with. That and the prices of the WWE ppv's going up.

And I'm fully aware that Steve Austin and Mick Foley were WCW (NWA) before they came to ECW and eventually the WWE. However, do you honestly think that the WWE would have taken notice of these guys if they didn't go to ECW? I think not and even if they would have, it wouldn't have been near the same. Now it goes without saying that TNA has it's flaws. That much is true. Do I think it's ready to compete with the WWE? It's not even close. And until those problems are fixed (Especially after the last 2 ppv's) They aren't going to be there for a long time.

 

[Shocky]

The problem with the new ECW is exactly that, its a new ECW. Why couldn't Vince call it Velocity V 2.0 or Tuesday Night Titans. Instead they bring back a company that was anti-everything it is now. I wish I could find the Shane Douglas interview where he tells Vince not to blasphem the name of ECW with what that thing is up north.

Hardcore was just a part of what ECW was. Sure it gets most of the attention now, but anyone that watched ECW when it was the Real ECW watched it because of the quality of the matchups. You watched Raw for storylines and soap opera, you watched ECw to watch insane matchups and damn high quality matchups. Most of the best matchups of the 90's will include ECW matchups.

The new ECW is crap, because the talent is nowhere near as passionate and intimate as the original ECW. If you want to make a 3rd brand, don't use the name of ECW unless you are going to actually be ECW.

 

[BigBombB]

I'm not bashing ANYTHING so put that to rest. Anytime somebody that watches TNA brings up one negative point of the WWE no matter how big or how little, it's considered bashing. Get this through your head, the only reason we point out these faults is because that's why some of us started watching TNA to begin with. That and the prices of the WWE ppv's going up.

And I'm fully aware that Steve Austin and Mick Foley were WCW (NWA) before they came to ECW and eventually the WWE. However, do you honestly think that the WWE would have taken notice of these guys if they didn't go to ECW? I think not and even if they would have, it wouldn't have been near the same. Now it goes without saying that TNA has it's flaws. That much is true. Do I think it's ready to compete with the WWE? It's not even close. And until those problems are fixed (Especially after the last 2 ppv's) They aren't going to be there for a long time.

Wow, you have some pent up aggression there. It's one thing when people point out flaws and say "hey, this could be done better", it's another thing when people say "WWE SUCKS, JOHN CENA IS DUMB, I HATE VINCE MCMAHON, TNA RULES!!!!!" There are an unfortunate amount of the second kind on both sides of the fence, which is really the most annoying part of being an "internet wrestling fan" these day. WWE has a style that, though becoming extremely dull, has been proven to work even at the cost of "hardcore fans". TNA can't even figure out how to please one specific group of people, let alone please the masses.

BTW, "Stunning" Steve Austin was a big up-and-comer in WCW before he was unceremoniously booted. Would he have made it to WWE if he hadn't gone to ECW? Certainly. Would he have been as successful? Hard to say, his whole career was made from his "Austin 3:16" line, before that he was the boring lackey of Ted DiBiase, and you can't get a gimmick much lamer than "the Ringmaster". As for Foley, he was a big name in wrestling for a long time before he entered ECW. Despite that, the only reason he eventually made it into the WWE was because they wanted to take their product in an "edgier" direction and he was well known for his balls out style. That may have had to do with ECW's existence, but Foley being in ECW had little to do with him being hired.