Should the Crossface be banned?

[Hillman]

I was reading "Offbeat Shenanigans" by Kevin McElvaney. One of the topics was the Crippler Crossface. HHH used it in a match with Cena and Mr. McElvaney was disgusted at it.

Yes, Chris Benoit was the person who popularized the move and he was the same person who killed his wife and son (using a chokehold similar to that of the crossface).

Should the Crippler Crossface be banned from wrestling?

I was a huge Benoit fan. When the news of his offence came up, I was shocked as hell. But I'm over it. Right now, I just don't care about what happened a year ago. And since I'm over that tragedy, I no longer associate the Crossface with Chris Benoit. Now, to me, it's just a wrestling move.

Back in Survivor Series, HBK used the move. At night of Champions, so did HHH. In my opinion, the re-application of the crossface, IMO, shows that WWE has forgotten the Benoit incident.

So, what do you guys think?

1) Never use the crossface again, or
2) use the corssface, get over the Benoit incident and move on?

 

[danaconda]

I say use the crossface again. It would show the fans and the world that the wrestling is moving on from this horrible event, while not forgetting about it. I think a gradual thing like they are doing now with 2 hugely over stars using it is acceptable. If the were to debut a new talent and that was his finisher I think it would be different, why I don't know. I just think that it would.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

They shouldn't use the Crossface. Not because of the Benoit tragedy, but because it degrades the move. Benoit applied the Crossface with such brutality and force that you knew that the end was near. Triple H and Shawn Michaels use it as more of a generic wrestling maneuver than a finisher. The way Triple H used it at One Night Stand was great because it actually looked painful. However, the previous times, the Crossface was just used as a move to take a breather. It really makes it seem less brutal when Benoit made that submission look absolutely devastating.

Also, just because the move is being used doesn't mean WWE is over the Benoit tragedy. The commentators have never referred to Benoit when the Crossface was applied nor do they even call it the Crippler Crossface. It's more like "oh hey that move looks familiar" or "oh look a generic submission move that has no real significance over other submissions".

 

[Crimson Bonez]

i say continue the crossfae beniot in my opinion was 1 of the best wrestlers and the best tecnical wreslter, and in the wwe its 1 of the best submissions that ppl actually tap out to. yes we all know what happened with the beniots, but i think that the guy i forget his name who was disgusted by triple h and hbk using the move is taking it over board and to the extreme with the way he was reacting

hbk was a bad drug user did that stop him from getting world titles, when he came out did did you say "omg how can they have this drugie as our world champ its a disgrace", batista bashed the entire smackdown roster when he was on raw calling them lazy and stuf, when he went to smackdown did they say how can they let this man that bashed out entire roster to become world champ of the brand its a disgrace, ted dibiase was charged with a DUI he could have killed some1 driving that night did they say "omg this man almost killed ppl and yet hes still got the tag belts what a disgrace", mr. m mahan him self has ben in the crossfire of numourous allegations steriods, sexual harrasment and yet hes still the chair man do they say "omg this man takes steriods allows his employees take them maybe give them to him has sexually harrased others and his employees and yet still the head man he should be fired his name should never be mentions EVER"

what im getting at is that it seems to me what ever happens outside of wreslting doesnt matter the stars are still stars yes i no it was ruled as a murder-suicide but he along with every1 else that has ben in trouble outside wreslting should be rememberd for what they did for the business, what they do in the ring, i no im going to get alot of "but hes a murder-er he killed his fam he choked his son" but thats just my opinion he was great in the ring and thats what he should be rememberd for so i think that there should be no prob in wrestlrers using the cross face and it shouldnt be banned

 

[andremt9]

When Triple H or any wwe wrestler puts the opponent in a submission(if the wrestler doesn't have a Submission Finisher,diferent of John Cena for example),everyone knows that the opponent won't taps out,and that submission is only one more maneuver to add drama to match

WWE should make more Submission victories to add credibility to the submissions holds,cause if you see Triple H using the Crossface or any other submission you already know that he won't win the match with that. diferent from Cena and Taker and Flair,cause when they put their opponents in their signature submission hold, they can win the match

 

[triplesic]

Of course keep using the crossface. It's a valid wrestling move. Who cares who used it in the past. Benoit didn't invent it, I think Dean Malenko did.

But regardless, why is there such a big stink about it now, this isn't the first time HHH has used it. I remember him using a lot closer to what happened last year.

 

[Danmen001]

Should the Crippler Crossface be banned from wrestling?

No, absolutely not. It's a wrestling move, just because of this incident doesn't mean we can't use it. People love that move and I don't see what good reason we have to stop using it.

And since I'm over that tragedy, I no longer associate the Crossface with Chris Benoit. Now, to me, it's just a wrestling move.

Good, that is how it should be. Just a wrestling move.

Back in Survivor Series, HBK used the move. At night of Champions, so did HHH. In my opinion, the re-application of the crossface, IMO, shows that WWE has forgotten the Benoit incident.

Wrong. The WWE definately has not forgotten about the Benoit incident, now you notice that the stars to use this move were HBK and HHH. 2 of the most respected and over faces of the company. If anything they were doing what they should be doing, and that is helping people get over the fact that it's a simple wrestling move. They are bringing it back because they are respected enough to be able to do it, and not be assaulted for their actions of this move. It's a move, and hence if people are affraid of it, they are helping the problem.

So, what do you guys think?

1) Never use the crossface again, or
2) use the corssface, get over the Benoit incident and move on?

2) please.

They shouldn't use the Crossface. Not because of the Benoit tragedy, but because it degrades the move.

That's silly IMO. It doesn't degrade anything, if something was happening it is allowing people to use it again.

Benoit applied the Crossface with such brutality and force that you knew that the end was near.

That would be because it's his finisher.

Triple H and Shawn Michaels use it as more of a generic wrestling maneuver than a finisher.

As apart of their moveset, what is wrong with that? They can use a move instead of a finsiher.

The way Triple H used it at One Night Stand was great because it actually looked painful. However, the previous times, the Crossface was just used as a move to take a breather. It really makes it seem less brutal when Benoit made that submission look absolutely devastating.

It's not ment to be absolutely brutal because it's not ment to finish the match. People marked out pretty well for the move, and taking a breather is just a bonus to that. Benoit while he made it look good wasn't doing much more to make it seem like he was taking less of a breather.

Also, just because the move is being used doesn't mean WWE is over the Benoit tragedy. The commentators have never referred to Benoit when the Crossface was applied nor do they even call it the Crippler Crossface.

Why would they refer to Benoit? It brings up unneccsary things, and it has nothing to do with the match. It's not the crippler crossface, so why call it that. The crippler crossface was Benoit's Crossface name and version, it was modified, hence different name.

It's more like "oh hey that move looks familiar" or "oh look a generic submission move that has no real significance over other submissions".

It doesn't have any significant over other moves because it's not the wrestlers finisher.

 

[wzkevinm]

So nobody thinks that the fact that it may have been the Crossface used to kill Daniel matters at all? What if, a year after Over the Edge 1999, they'd had a guy descend into the ring from the rafters on a cable?

Also, Malenko invented the move, but Benoit was the first and most prominent person to use it. It was "his" move.

 

[Shocky]

What suffocation or choke hold hasn't been used legitmately in the history of the world as a means to kill another person in hand to hand combat. So with that being said, should we outlaw the use of any chokehold in the world of professional wrestling?

I think it's being blown way out of proportion. There is no proof that Benoit used the move to kill Daniel. So what happens if we find out it was a sleeper hold that did it, what then? I guess we ban the sleeper from ever being used.

It's a knee jerk reaction to a tragic situation, and at some point, its time to simply move on from the situation. The Crippler Crossface is an amazing submission maneuver, and someone should utilize it. It can't become a signature move of someone else if there is this stigma around it. It's simply a matter of letting go.

 

[wzkevinm]

Well, if it were a sleeperhold that killed Daniel this would be a completely different story. The sleeperhold has a long, long history in wrestling and is not synonymous with Chris Benoit. However, the Crippler Crossface and Chris Benoit are inseparable. That's the argument I'm trying to make. And, if that was that move that killed Daniel, then why on earth would we want to see it emulated in the ring? Mick Foley took the Mandible Claw from a serial killer and turned it into a wrestling move, but this is different for two reasons: 1) This was decades after what happened. 2) The move wasn't used to kill a child.

Yes, it's true that it could've been any chokehold but, seeing as this was CHRIS BENOIT's chokehold, using it is really in poor taste...whether or not it was the actual chokehold used in the events. Daniel died by chokehold, and so did Nancy. Yes, it's a move, but it wasn't a move until Chris Benoit started using it. It doesn't matter how cool it was years ago. The meaning has changed now.

Are there any communications majors on here? Maybe someone can help me explain the symbolism of applying the Crossface on the one year anniversary of the murders. Do I really even need to explain how awful that is?

 

[Mr. TM]

The Crossface is a great submission. Its easy to put on, doesn't look to complicated, and can make opponents hurt. Chris Benoit used it as his finisher, and people knew it was going to hurt coming on. Now we have Triple H and Shawn Michaels use it over the last year to make their opponents suffer.

It should be used as a submission. Fans love the move, though it might be because they loved Chris Benoit. I don't think that Shawn Michaels or Triple H, two men at the end of their careers use it. Very few people could have used it. Chris Jericho could have used it, Edge could use it, But that might be it. The old DX members using it, is almost hurtful, as they use it to a slap in the face. They may think they are funny doing it as an insult to Benoit, but its an insult to the benoit family as well, as well as the surviving memebers of the family.

No rookie could ever use the move. They would be booed out of the building. No face that isnt over could use it, they would be hated forever. Only Heels or people with a connection to Chris should be able to use it. Id like to see it back in the WWE, maybe as Edges finishing submission, though I would prefer him hitting the sharpshooter on his opponents

 

[rockofhysteria]

First of all I wanna say that after I read Kevin McElvaney's column it appeared to me that he is one of the most ignorant wrestling columnists ive ever read. He thinks that most wrestling fans are stupid obviously. But what he doesnt take into account is that the truly hardcore fans will not be reminded of the murder suicide by seing the crossface they will be reminded of the great wrestler that Benoit was. They should definately keep using the Crippler Crossface cause it is one of the best submission holds ever thought of not to mention he isn't the only one to use it when he was alive. I had seen The Rock use it, Ultimo Dragon, William Regal, Finlay(in WCW) use it and of Course Ive seen the inventor of the move Dean Malenko use it. Plus HHH is doing that move out of a tribute to the man he and Benoit were good friends outside of the ring. Same goes for HBK. In my opinion letting guys use this move is a great step into putting the Benoit tragedy behind them and the other way is to stop editing his matches out of WWE 24/7. WWE needs to quit trying to re write history like it or not Chris Benoit existed whether they Like it or not. But thats for another thread Meanwhile I really support the use of the Crossface its a small way to keep the memory of Chris Benoit the Technician, Wrestler, and Champion alive not the Killer.

 

[Makon Crayley]

The crossface is one of the greatest moves in sports entertainment and one of the most renound moves in history so it should not be banned and so what if Chris Benoit, the man who killed his wife, son and later himself, used the move because it is not the person who made the move famous who makes people think it should be banned or not it is the legacy of the move that should decide this.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

I say, continue using it. Benoit did a horrible thing...we all know that...but he didn't kill someone in the middle of the ring by using the move. What he did was his own personal agenda. The WWE didn't hand him a steel chair as a murder weapon, they didn't count a pinfall, nothing of the sort.

At the same time, don't use it as an honorary move or symbolism of Benoit. For instance, HBK using it against Orton in that trio of submission holds at Survivor Series made sense to me. But HHH using it at Night of Champions, practically on the one-year anniversary of Benoit's actions, that was wrong. That's almost celebrating it in a way.

 

[Unrated Superstar]

It's a knee jerk reaction to a tragic situation

I couldn't agree more.

As a stand-up comedian, I have to always take into consideration the possibility that people could be offended by what I say. In fact, I got banned from this forum for 10 days for making a joke about Benoit. I won't repeat what it was, but (at the risk of getting banned again) it was really stupid that I got banned because aside from the fact that I took another look at the rules and there was nothing about telling Benoit jokes or anything of the sort in there, IMO you also have to consider the intention behind a statement or action when deciding whether to view it as offensive.

My joke was not meanspirited toward the Benoit family or anything of the sort, it was just a funny joke that was meant to make people laugh. Much like using the crossface in WWE isn't meant as an insult to anyone, it's just a move that's meant to entertain people. And after my post, someone even pointed it out in their post that they thought it was really good. But then you have other people who ban me because they feel it's offensive. Much like you have a lot of people who are entertained by the move, and then some people who are disgusted by it. You can't please everyone, so why ban a move that isn't intended to be offensive just because a handful of people think it's "disgusting"? And even if one person who doesn't like it is a columnist, does that mean that WWE should care? What does WWE have to gain by banning the move? Nothing, it'll just shut up a few uptight people.

As for not using it because it doesn't look painful anymore...it looks plenty painful, only reason no one will tap out to it is because no one can make it their finisher. But hell, it was the same for the Boston Crab after Jericho left. People started using it again, but no one tapped out to it. Does that mean it shouldn't have been used?

So in closing, this post wasn't meant as an outlet to complain about my ban, I just figured it was a good analogy for this discussion.

 

[Sparky]

But HHH using it at Night of Champions, practically on the one-year anniversary of Benoit's actions, that was wrong. That's almost celebrating it in a way.

Wait. What? That makes as much sense as not having sex with your new girlfriend on the one year anniversery of breaking up with your ex. The cross face is one of the main submission hold's triple H uses. He doe's it almost every pay per view match. I don't think it should be banned. It's not like someone is saying as a tribute to Chris i am going to Wint this match with the cross face. They are using this move becouse it is a real looking move that you could see that it would actually hurt onlike most moves in the wwe. Chris is not the only person to ever use that move and HHH using it the other night will not be the last time it will be used.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Wait. What? That makes as much sense as not having sex with your new girlfriend on the one year anniversery of breaking up with your ex. The cross face is one of the main submission hold's triple H uses. He doe's it almost every pay per view match. I don't think it should be banned. It's not like someone is saying as a tribute to Chris i am going to Wint this match with the cross face. They are using this move becouse it is a real looking move that you could see that it would actually hurt onlike most moves in the wwe. Chris is not the only person to ever use that move and HHH using it the other night will not be the last time it will be used.

....what? Lol You've totally lost me on the girlfriend thing. I'd actually suggest that you SHOULD have sex with your new girlfriend on the 1-year anniversary of breaking up with your ex. Make some new and better memories with it.

Chris isn't the only one to ever use the move, but he's without a shadow of the doubt the one who made it popular and he's the face that goes along with it for at least long enough until someone else overshadows that. Its only been one year - not many people (if any) have forgotten such a terrible incident. So they should know that people will immediately and instinctively think of Benoit when they see that move. Granted, in due time, someone else might come along and popularize it in a whole new way and in a better light, and we'll be saying something like "the Crossface goes hand in hand with *insert new guy*", but until then, it'll still be "Benoit's move", just like how if someone else did the tombstone piledriver in the WWE, it would make people think of the Undertaker. SCM = Shawn Michaels. Pedigree = Triple H. Stunner = Stone Cold. You can't even chop without hearing a "woo" for Flair.

But what I thought was odd about using it was that it was Night of Champions last year when it happened. They did another "McMahon is injured/killed" thing, just as they did last year around this time. But doing the Crossface makes people go "That reminds me of Benoit. Hey, last year, he was supposed to be at Night of Champions but.....yeah...then THAT happened.....hm..." Remember when Vince called the bell after the Rock put the Sharpshooter on Mick Foley, one year after the Montreal Screwjob? People really expected a screwjob to happen at Survivor Series a few months ago because it was a 10 year anniversary. The weirdest thing about it, though, was that it was completely unnecessary to showcase the move. If Triple H had been using it for weeks and months ahead of time, then it would just be another move in his arsenal and it would make more sense, but I don't see him coming out and doing it every night. Now, that might just be my memory, and maybe he does use it and I just don't recall. I just think that for this ppv, they could've stayed away from even bringing up the controversial move. Feel free to do it at Judgment Day, One Night Stand, Great American Bash, what have you, but at the very least, don't do it the next chance you get to do it on the same ppv. Bret wrestled a match in the arena that Owen died in as a way to honor him.....I don't see why you should honor Benoit's actions that happened around Night of Champions.

 

[wzkevinm]

First of all I wanna say that after I read Kevin McElvaney's column it appeared to me that he is one of the most ignorant wrestling columnists ive ever read. He thinks that most wrestling fans are stupid obviously. But what he doesnt take into account is that the truly hardcore fans will not be reminded of the murder suicide by seing the crossface they will be reminded of the great wrestler that Benoit was. They should definately keep using the Crippler Crossface cause it is one of the best submission holds ever thought of not to mention he isn't the only one to use it when he was alive. I had seen The Rock use it, Ultimo Dragon, William Regal, Finlay(in WCW) use it and of Course Ive seen the inventor of the move Dean Malenko use it. Plus HHH is doing that move out of a tribute to the man he and Benoit were good friends outside of the ring. Same goes for HBK. In my opinion letting guys use this move is a great step into putting the Benoit tragedy behind them and the other way is to stop editing his matches out of WWE 24/7. WWE needs to quit trying to re write history like it or not Chris Benoit existed whether they Like it or not. But thats for another thread Meanwhile I really support the use of the Crossface its a small way to keep the memory of Chris Benoit the Technician, Wrestler, and Champion alive not the Killer.

I'd like to state that I take serious exception to your assertion that I think wrestling fans are stupid. I am a wrestling fan, so that would be a pretty foolish belief on my part, wouldn't it? What basis, exactly, do you have for calling me ignorant? I simply wrote a column talking about the obvious symbolic overtones behind someone using the Crippler Crossface at this stage in wrestling. Many people disagree with what I said, and that is fine. I'm just putting my opinion out there. I believe that what I said was backed up by a great deal of logic. Whether or not you agree with that logic, what I said can hardly be classified as ignorant. I have a great deal of respect for anyone one here who wants to speak openly about these issues.

I'll say this one more time, though, to everyone who keeps saying that this wasn't Chris Benoit's move: guys (and gals), it WAS Chris Benoit's move. As much as the Tombstone is the Undertaker's, the Pedigree is Triple H's. Other guys use them, but that move will forever be associated with Chris Benoit. We're not talking about Kurt Angle using three German suplexes. We're talking about someone who never used the submission before using it now and, effectively, getting a cheap pop. What makes matters worse is that Night of Champions was exactly one year after the murders. It doesn't matter what Triple H's intentions were. Heck, I'm convinced that his intentions were pure! The fact remains that copying a chokehold from a man who choked two people to death on the one year anniversary is a little bit sketch! Try and explain what Triple H did to someone who doesn't watch wrestling. They'll think it's awful, trust me. And, really, I think a majority of us who pop for seeing that move are being swept in nostalgia and emotion. As much as we want to see that move and have everything back to normal, there are some things that changed last June. Whether or not you want to see the Crossface performed again - and I don't - you will probably be able to admit that NOC wasn't the time or the place for it.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

Why would they refer to Benoit? It brings up unneccsary things, and it has nothing to do with the match. It's not the crippler crossface, so why call it that. The crippler crossface was Benoit's Crossface name and version, it was modified, hence different name.



It doesn't have any significant over other moves because it's not the wrestlers finisher.

My point was that the Crossface will always be associated with Benoit. You can't say that it has no sigificance over any other wrestling move. The Crossface isn't the same as a headlock. It's Chris Benoit's trademark maneuver. You can't tell me that you aren't reminded of Benoit when the Crossface is applied. He is the face of that maneuver and always will be until someone else (if anyone at all) overshadows him. Just like the Tombstone=Undertaker, Pedigree=Triple H, Stunner=Stone COld, Sharpshooter=Bret Hart, the Crossface will always cause people to reminiss about Benoit.

And the fact that the announcers don't refer to Benoit when the move is applied shows that WWE isn't really over the tragedy at all. For example, when Triple H uses that AA Spinebuster, they usually mention Arn Anderson or Harley Race when Triple H does his jumping knee. There's also the occasional shout out to The King when a Piledriver is executed. I don't see why they can't mention Benoit when he is obviously the reason the Crossface is as famous as it is.




I'll admit, my point about degrading the maneuver was stupid, I wasn't sober at the time But nonetheless, I think it's too early to be using the Crossface, especially since NoC was one year after the murders. If HHH used it on some other night, like the anniversary of Benoit winning the WHC or another milestone in his career, it would have been fine. Using it on the anniversary that Benoit murdered his family sends the wrong message. It's as if he was glorifying Chris Benoit the murder, not Chris Benoit the greatest technical wrestler ever.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I'll say this one more time, though, to everyone who keeps saying that this wasn't Chris Benoit's move: guys (and gals), it WAS Chris Benoit's move. As much as the Tombstone is the Undertaker's, the Pedigree is Triple H's. Other guys use them, but that move will forever be associated with Chris Benoit. We're not talking about Kurt Angle using three German suplexes. We're talking about someone who never used the submission before using it now and, effectively, getting a cheap pop.

Just because our minds associate the Crossface with Chris Benoit doesn't mean that there needs to be a stop to using the move. It just isn't enough justification to ban the move, and it isn't enough to say that it's wrong for Triple H to use it either. You, me, and others see the Crossface and think of Benoit because that's our perception of it, but we're not necessarily seeing it for what it really is in the end, a wrestling move.

What makes matters worse is that Night of Champions was exactly one year after the murders. It doesn't matter what Triple H's intentions were. Heck, I'm convinced that his intentions were pure! The fact remains that copying a chokehold from a man who choked two people to death on the one year anniversary is a little bit sketch! Try and explain what Triple H did to someone who doesn't watch wrestling. They'll think it's awful, trust me. And, really, I think a majority of us who pop for seeing that move are being swept in nostalgia and emotion. As much as we want to see that move and have everything back to normal, there are some things that changed last June. Whether or not you want to see the Crossface performed again - and I don't - you will probably be able to admit that NOC wasn't the time or the place for it.

I don't see why NOC wasn't the time for it. Would it have been any better if Triple H had used it in another time or place? Does that really change anything? Not really. Triple H using that move isn't wrong, what happened a year ago on that day (well around that time) is the true wrong. Again how we choose to see it is because of our own experiences and perceptions.

I get how some people may see using this move as wrong because it was so linked to Benoit, but on the other hand he also breathed the same air we breathe, doesn't mean it should be banned. You get the picture.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Monkey_Mania]

No. It is just a wrestling hold. It's no different than a sleeper hold, an STFU, a leglock or anything else. Just because Benoit popularized the move doesnt mean it should be banned.

Now whenever it is used. It garners an even bigger reaction. Which is a good thing. It's all about drawing in the audience. No matter what wrestling hold you use it will garner a reaction. So there should be no reason that it shouldnt be used. We have no proof that it was the specific move that he used so why should it matter?

 

[BigShowEatsPizza]

I really hate how you can't even find Chris Benoit anywhere on the site. All over the place, there are just blanks where Benoit's legacy should be shown. Someone that kills their wife and son has to have something really wrong with them and the WWE shouldn't pretend like he never existed. There are plenty of sick famous people that do horrible things, but you don't see other companies and businesses ignoring their achievements in their respected fields. OJ, Michael Jackson, Hugh Grant, Michael Vick and many others have committed all sorts of different serious crimes. Yet, their achievements have not been disregarded. Why should the WWE be any different? I absolutely agree that the CRIPPLER crossface should be used in the WWE. Not only should it be considered a regular wrestling move, but it also happens to be a GOOD wrestling move.
Also, what Triple H did at NoC can be interpreted anyway you want. Sure you can say, "oh what a prick, he did Benoit's move cuz its been a year since he massacred his family." I'd like to say, "I'm glad to see that at least SOMEONE is acknowledging Benoit. And its nice to see his tribute happening a year after he died."

 

[Danmen001]

My point was that the Crossface will always be associated with Benoit. You can't say that it has no sigificance over any other wrestling move. The Crossface isn't the same as a headlock. It's Chris Benoit's trademark maneuver. You can't tell me that you aren't reminded of Benoit when the Crossface is applied. He is the face of that maneuver and always will be until someone else (if anyone at all) overshadows him. Just like the Tombstone=Undertaker, Pedigree=Triple H, Stunner=Stone COld, Sharpshooter=Bret Hart, the Crossface will always cause people to reminiss about Benoit.

I am reminded on Benoit whenever i see the crossface, and your right moves remind you of the person who uses them the most. The move is the person. My point is that using the wrestling move should be no problem.

And the fact that the announcers don't refer to Benoit when the move is applied shows that WWE isn't really over the tragedy at all. For example, when Triple H uses that AA Spinebuster, they usually mention Arn Anderson or Harley Race when Triple H does his jumping knee.

I am not sure if you know this but judging by your post you don't. The AA Spinebuster is named after Arn Anderson ya know AA = Arn Anderson. That is why they recall Anderson. Anyways, my point is when they are ready to openly start saying these things, like they can and people start feeling more relaxed about it. Like I also said they are using the moves to help bring it back.

I don't see why they can't mention Benoit when he is obviously the reason the Crossface is as famous as it is.

When they are ready they will, just give it some time.

I'll admit, my point about degrading the maneuver was stupid, I wasn't sober at the time

But nonetheless, I think it's too early to be using the Crossface, especially since NoC was one year after the murders.

He was using it before then as well. He just kept using it to help people get over it.

If HHH used it on some other night, like the anniversary of Benoit winning the WHC or another milestone in his career, it would have been fine.

IMO your looking into it too much, and trying to be symbolic of his career. We should be focusing on getting over the move.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

It's just a move. Benoit didn't invent it. He just popularized it. Somebody should start using it. Frequently. They should have it as their finishing move. It should be a big name star. Somebody who is a bigger star than Benoit. Over time it'll become that wrestlers move.

What I don't agree with is the likes of HBK & HHH using it purely to gain cheap heat.

 

[tha_icon85]

I can see bth sides oof this argument. on one hand its a great wrestling moves that reminds us of a great performer of the business. on the the other its a constant reminder a brutal killer and someone that cowardly took their on life. that said, im in favor of the move been used and that beniot such be brought up when it happens. what he did was sick and god or whoever he holds as a higher power will have him answer to that. its not or place to judge and discredit his legacy he left. wht would banning it do? give it and his horrible act more attention. No let it gradually become the next cobra clutch or sleeper. I dnt hear anybody calling for a ban of the move that the kid got life for when he killed that lil girl. and what about the maniable claw;its not ban even though it was use to kill countless ppl by a man just as sick if not more. what about those famlies that had to see the moves that killed their love ones used and cheered time and time again. it was taken from a mad man and praised as a insane wrestler finisher. that by far worse than using a moves created by and inivator and uses by a preimere technical wrestler that just so happen snapped and commited a disgusting act. makes no sense. in the end its just a move and for me if and when I pop for I will remember beniot, not the madman but the great ring technician. but ur free to think that way about him just as I among other are free to think the opposite . doesn't make it wrong or right it makes us human, but doesn't call for a ban of a moves just so u will feel better!!