Round 6: jmt225 -vs- Little Jerry Lawler

[D-Man]

The New Blood, a waste of time or a missed opportunity?

This is a sixth round match in the Debater's League. jmt225 is the home debater and gets to choose which side of the debate they will be on and who debates first, but they have 24 hours to make their choice.

This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 2pm EST.

Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

Good luck.​

 

[jmt225]

The New Blood, without a shadow of a doubt, was a missed opportunity.

Listen, by the late nineties/early millennium WCW ran itself into the ground mostly because of the fact the older wrestlers in the company were holding on to their top spot and not letting any of the young wrestlers come up in the company. Because of this, WCW lost their "next big stars" in guys like Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, etc. to the WWF. The New Blood was the PERFECT way, however, to create new stars and start building the company around this AWESOME group of young talent.

The problem though, they were heavily mistreated and underutilized. Could you imagine if you take the Nexus storyline of today and apply to The New Blood? If you do that, and The New Blood storyline is a success. Honestly, if you have a young group of talent, who are actually talented like The New Blood were, then the opportunities are endless.

Take a look at just some of the names who were in this faction:

Jeff Jarrett
Goldberg
Rey Misterio, Jr.
Billy Kidman
Lance Storm
Vampiro
Booker T
Mike Awesome

All at the time were fairly young, and extremely talented in their own right. WCW just did not know what to do with them. Instead of just using these guys for the faction, they instead started stacking up and stacking up new, WORTHLESS members, much like they did with the nWo. And it was even worse since they started that shit right away. At least with the nWo it took time for them to establish so many in the group, whereas right away the New Blood was too crowded.

Anyways, the idea was fantastic. You have these two big names in Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo come in and say they're sick of how WCW is being run by these old timers who should hang them up, but grasp at their spot no matter what damage it does to the company, and they're here to give the company and its fans a faction of young wrestlers, who have all suffered because of the old timers selfishness. If The New Blood came to WCW in a fashion Nexus did once the first season of NXT was over, there is absolutely no way you can tell me that that would not have worked and that WCW would not have started their climb back up to glory.

It's disappointing just thinking about how badly WCW dropped the ball with The New Blood. They had the right idea; they just didn't know how to make it work. It was definitely one of the biggest missed opportunities in the history of the company.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I was first intrigued by the New Blood/Millionaire's Club storyline but now looking back it was a waste of time because of two factors.


1. Way too many members
JMT touched on the main members of the New Blood and that's all fine and good but look who else comprised the stable - Tank Abbott, Horace Hogan, Mike Sanders, and the Wall. There were others but they increased and increased the stable until nobody started to care. That was the problem with the nWo. It was fine with just Hogan, Hall, and Nash but when half of the roster joined, it felt like the Wu Tang Clan of WCW.

2. The wrong people were heel.
TNA would get this right with the Main Event Mafia but WCW failed completely with making the New Blood Heel. Think about it like this. You have guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall, and Sting who were figureheads and you had brash young bucks trying to take their spots. I would imagine that they would be heel as they would do anything to protect their status at all costs. Instead they have the New Blood be the heel group which to me used bad logic and the Millionaire's Club got mainly good reaction from the fans which shouldn't have been the case.

 

[jmt225]

1. Way too many members
JMT touched on the main members of the New Blood and that's all fine and good but look who else comprised the stable - Tank Abbott, Horace Hogan, Mike Sanders, and the Wall. There were others but they increased and increased the stable until nobody started to care. That was the problem with the nWo. It was fine with just Hogan, Hall, and Nash but when half of the roster joined, it felt like the Wu Tang Clan of WCW.

Exactly. I mentioned in my first post that a big reason the faction flopped was because they added too many members way too soon. Had they not though... the angle would have had a much better chance of succeeding. You have to remember LJL, this is about the concept about The New Blood, not about what actually happened. And there's no denying the fact that the concept of The New Blood was fantastic and could have worked if WCW didn't drop the ball with it. You said yourself that you were intrigued by it at first.

2. The wrong people were heel.
TNA would get this right with the Main Event Mafia but WCW failed completely with making the New Blood Heel. Think about it like this. You have guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall, and Sting who were figureheads and you had brash young bucks trying to take their spots. I would imagine that they would be heel as they would do anything to protect their status at all costs. Instead they have the New Blood be the heel group which to me used bad logic and the Millionaire's Club got mainly good reaction from the fans which shouldn't have been the case.

But it actually could have worked with them as heels, as I mentioned earlier by comparing them to Nexus.

Seriously, you have guys like Sting, Hogan, Nash, etc. as faces. Are the ratings down? Sure, but the people in attendance will still root for those guys. All of the sudden you bring in this young group of wrestlers, led by Bischoff and Russo, and beat the living shit out of these guys like they're nothing. You continue to do it week in and week out, until it's time for them to be put over by guys like Sting and Hogan. All of the sudden, WCW fans are shocked and people now have to start tuning into Nitro again, because A) They now don't know what to expect and B) They want to get a look at these young faces terrorizing and dominating their heroes of yesteryear.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Exactly. I mentioned in my first post that a big reason the faction flopped was because they added too many members way too soon. Had they not though... the angle would have had a much better chance of succeeding. You have to remember LJL, this is about the concept about The New Blood, not about what actually happened. And there's no denying the fact that the concept of The New Blood was fantastic and could have worked if WCW didn't drop the ball with it. You said yourself that you were intrigued by it at first.



But it actually could have worked with them as heels, as I mentioned earlier by comparing them to Nexus.

Seriously, you have guys like Sting, Hogan, Nash, etc. as faces. Are the ratings down? Sure, but the people in attendance will still root for those guys. All of the sudden you bring in this young group of wrestlers, led by Bischoff and Russo, and beat the living shit out of these guys like they're nothing. You continue to do it week in and week out, until it's time for them to be put over by guys like Sting and Hogan. All of the sudden, WCW fans are shocked and people now have to start tuning into Nitro again, because A) They now don't know what to expect and B) They want to get a look at these young faces terrorizing and dominating their heroes of yesteryear.

The main difference in between what Nexus is doing and what the New Blood did is the status of those that they faced. While John Cena, Edge, and Jericho are great, they hardly compare to what Sting, Hogan, Hall, and Nash were at that time. One of the main antagonists of the Millionaire's Club was Billy Kidman. He was good but nowhere near as good as who he was up against and I just find it hard to believe that the crowd was going to cheer someone like Kidman. It would have made a big difference if Hogan was the one cutting promos because his heel ones were just as good as his face ones. The Millionaire's Club was made to be heel because the general person hates millionaires because they flaunt their wealth and look down on those less fortunate. It worked for the Million Dollar Man and later on with JBL.

 

[jmt225]

The main difference in between what Nexus is doing and what the New Blood did is the status of those that they faced. While John Cena, Edge, and Jericho are great, they hardly compare to what Sting, Hogan, Hall, and Nash were at that time.

The biggest difference is that Sting, Hogan, Hall, and Nash were much bigger stars back then than Cena, Edge, and Jericho are today, which means that those guys putting over a new core of young wrestlers would have been that much bigger.

One of the main antagonists of the Millionaire's Club was Billy Kidman. He was good but nowhere near as good as who he was up against and I just find it hard to believe that the crowd was going to cheer someone like Kidman.

I can see people cheering Kidman. Hell, they did during his big push. I can also envision people booing him if he played a heel and went up against Sting. Now, could he have ever been a big star? No, I would agree with you there that that's not likely, but he still could have been a contender and have a solid spot in the mid-card, where he could have been taken seriously.

But I look at guys like Jarrett, Booker T, and even Lance Storm as the guys who could have challenged the old timers and started a new era for the company.

It would have made a big difference if Hogan was the one cutting promos because his heel ones were just as good as his face ones.

No, they're not. Hogan got plenty of pops as a heel, whereas he rarely ever got booed as a face.

The Millionaire's Club was made to be heel because the general person hates millionaires because they flaunt their wealth and look down on those less fortunate. It worked for the Million Dollar Man and later on with JBL.

I see what you're saying, but if WCW would have used The New Blood as I suggested, then The Millionaire's Club would have never existed. That faction being put together was a big reason why The New Blood wasn't successful. Those guys shouldn't have been feuding against another faction, but against EVERYONE who wasn't in their group, just like Nexus currently does.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Something tells me Little Jerry Lawler didn't want to argue the side he'd been given (he's a closet Horace Hogan fan). He did his damnedest, though, so I'm giving him one of the persuasion points. jmt225 gets everything else.

Final Score
jmt225 - 4
Little Jerry Lawler - 1

 

[Miko]

Clarity: Both get the spoils

Point - Split

Punctuality: LJL was late I think? So jmt gets the point

Point - jmt

Informative: Not exactly an abundance of the stuff, so not exactly an abundance of points either

Point - Split

Persuasion: Same as tdigs, I think LJL tried but his heart wasnt in it, jmt was his usual great self

Point - jmt

My Scores;

LJL - 1
jmt225 - 4

 

[Phoenix]

Clarity of debate: jmt225
jmt225 went all out, LJL's opening post seem to confirm what had already been said.

Punctuality: jmt225
No response from LJL to continue gives this to jmt.

Informative: jmt225
Despite not having much provided on information, jmt provided a more thorough insight.

Persuasion: jmt225
While I understand that LJL's heart wasn't in it and he still tried, I don't want to take points away from jmt who still made a great effort here.

Final Score
jmt225: 5
Little Jerry Lawler: 0

 

[D-Man]

I understand where my fellow judges were coming from as they gave LJL a point for his efforts, but I judge things differently. To me, it's all about the debate. I don't give out pity points.

Therefore, I think jmt225 ran away with this one. His facts were better, he was on-time, posts were clear as crystal, and he's undoubtedly one of the best debaters on Wrestlezone and proved it here.

Final Score
jmt225:5
LJL: 0

 

[D-Man]

After a complete judge's tally, jmt225 is the victor with 18 points to LJL's 2.

Congratulations and great debating from the both of you!