Round 1: The Joker vs. Buffy Summers

Discussion in 'Humans Section' started by The Doctor, Sep 8, 2012.

?

Who wins?

  1. The Joker

  2. Buffy Summers

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  1. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Slayers (and Buffy) can take a beating and are somewhat resistant to damage, but are in no way impervious. They can be stabbed, shot, get sick ,etc- just like normal people, but they recover and heal much faster. Its not instantaneous, but they can.


    I would say that Buffy belongs more in the supers category than humans because she is kinda like the female Captain America. Only difference is the shield.


    Joker isnt fighting Cap and his shield though. He is fighting Buffy and she has nothing that can stop acid melting her face off or something that renders her immune to the Joker Gas. Nothing. Show me where she took a shot of acid to the face and kept fighting. You cant. I can, however show you times she was knocked the hell out and\or died. She may recover from alot, but it takes her a few hours\a day to get back on her feet. Joker just has to keep her down for the count this round and is very capable of doing so.


    Buffy has been knocked out a few times with blows to the head. So its quite possible that Joker whomps her with the mallet and she goes night-night. She may be strong and have great durability, but she isnt invincible. She can be knocked out- even by electricity. Remember when Dru zapped her with the cattle prod? I do, Buffy took a nap.



    By the rules of this tournament you can lose by death or knockout. It is very possible for Joker to knock her out and likely that he would\could kill her. Slayers are tough, but Joker has this one. Buffy is not the invincible chick that people are trying to make her out to be. Joker, on the other hand, is exactly sick, twisted and more than capable of taking her out with what he has up his sleeve.
     
    #26
  2. ABMorales787

    ABMorales787 Lord And Master
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    I'm not really impressed by Joker winning. He is THE comic book villain and always has more tricks under him than Rock has catchphrases. His popularity is astounding. And he's been known to do some nasty damage anyone who isn't prepared for him. So I wouldn't really hold Buffy as being unstoppable against him. It's not his first dance with nigh-invulnerable foes, you know. And personally, what defense does she have against the Joker Gas or his acid flower?
     
    #27
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  3. kcoe24

    kcoe24 Occasional Pre-Show

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    Buffy all day, and i love joker. But there is no way Joker could take her. How many times as Batman had the oppurtnity to kill Joker but didn't. Just about every damn time they meet. Buffy would kill him the first chance she gets.

    Just wondering but didn't buffy have super strength thus making her a super.
     
    #28
  4. Jomo_mark

    Jomo_mark Dark Match Winner

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    C'mon, people are voting for the Joker to win? Buffy would easily take this fight. Those saying shit like "joker can take a lot of pain", that's bullshit when it comes to Buffy. She has SUPER STRENGTH & SPEED, that means she could probably knock Joker out before he can say "haha".
    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Joker in the comics. However, the only reason he has this much success as a villain is because of his schemes. Fighting has never been his strong point, and he would get destroyed against someone with super strength & speed like Buffy.
     
    #29
  5. Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly

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    Buffy fans really have me rolling here. Joker would easily (and consentingly, if that's a real word) take the pain Summers offers him and dish out whatever the fuck goes through his whackjob mind.
    Vote: Joker.
     
    #30
  6. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    I suppose you could go in to a long discussion about how the Joker might laugh about having to face a girl or that Buffy might not use her powers against a human, but when it really comes down to throwing hands, while the Joker defnitely has a lot of potential tricks literally up his sleeve or on his lapel and can be one sick puppy (he can also be as useless as a little girl), I do not see how he has any real chance against Buffy should she decide to take him out straight away.

    Hand-to-hand, Batman beats the shit out of the Joker time and again and the Slayer is easily as skilled as the Caped Crusader and certainly stronger and faster.

    Overcome with the hilarity of having to fight a little girl, the Joker stands there laughing whilst Buffy runs up to him and KOs him with a single punch.
     
    #31
  7. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Joker isn't going to start out with the acid though. He's most likely to misplace Buffy as a normal human girl, and approach her as one. Buffy doesn't fuck around with people that are trying to hurt her, doesn't matter if it's a human, demon, vampire, hell-goddess, whatever; anyone that has seen the series knows this.

    Joker is one roundhouse kick away from getting knocked out; he wouldn't even get the chance to use his acid.
     
    #32
  8. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    So you're saying that he's going to consent to an ass-kicking, Dark Knight interrogation style? Absurd. Joker has no hostage-situation trump he can play to make Buffy stop, no moral-conundrum that can make the firsts stop flying. If this plays out your way, Buffy pummels Joker into unconsciousness in under thirty seconds. The Clown Prince of Crime can enjoy punishment as much as he wants. He's still human. Regardless of his spirit, his body has a breaking point.

    Dodging. The likeliness of this possibility is increased by her supernatural instincts.

    So, where are the decent arguments for Joker?
     
    #33
  9. Serious Mozzarella

    Serious Mozzarella Special Victims Unit

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    Yeah, I voted too early, and voted for the guy who spends his time trying to get someone who won't kill him to kill him. If he laid out his chances against someone who wouldn't hesitate to kill him, he wouldn't stand a chance, no matter how many mind games he plays.
     
    #34
  10. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    Every single version of the Joker gets beaten the fuck up when Batman gets his hands on him. Diabolical plans, yeah but he hasn't got a few days to come up with something to kill Buffy, plus the amount of ass she's kicked The Joker would register as an almost routine ass kicking
     
    #35
  11. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    They both would take eachother lightly at first I imagine. To him, Buffy looks like just a girl. To her, Joker looks like a skinny painted clown. But who's to say he wouldnt lead off with a flower? (being the charming gentleman he is) Would she just kick him and kill him without knowing that flower is dangerous? Not likely. What would Buffy do to stop it? What would she do to prevent acid from burning her face off or inhaling Joker Gas? You say mystical powers, but I have never read\heard her ever being protected against that. Seems like a blanket assumption to include that and cover up the fact you cant back up the claim.


    You said she would not be hurt by certain things and I proved you wrong. With actual scenes from the show. With actual ways Joker could do the same thing. Electricity has taken her out. She has been knocked out (by a freaking mannequin arm, no less) and can be hurt. Accelerated healing time does not equal invulnerable\invincible.



    How is it dodging by saying he can use certain things to defeat her that she has no defense for? Just as I proved with Esch, she is defenseless against the gas\acid. She can be knocked out by a blow to the head or electricity. He claims she is so indestructible, yet I have proven his claims false. With facts from the show.

    I even gave a few scenarios on whats likely to happen. Where are the decent arguments for Buffy that shows Joker's tricks will cause no damage? I have yet to hear any.
     
    #36
  12. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Buffy develops the mystical protection late in the TV series, and you can see the affects clearly during the eighth season.

    You act like Joker would immediately spray her in the face; from what I've gathered that's his desperation move. He wouldn't start out with it, because he wouldn't have a reason to take her seriously. Buffy's ruthless, merciless, and wouldn't hesitate to take him out before he got the chance to use the acid.

    Her speed alone would likely take him so far off his game that he wouldn't even think to use it.

    You assume that he'd survive her first onslaught, and that's unlikely considering that the Joker normally doesn't carry or wear any type of armor.

    I never once claimed she was indestructible; I claimed she was stronger than the Joker. A claim shared by just about everyone else posting in here.

    Even if Buffy takes the acid to the face; it won't kill her. Her resistance to poisons is much higher than a normal persons, even Batman's. He sprays her, she's blind, but she's still got 4 perfectly good senses left to find and beat Joker's ass.
     
    #37
  13. GrandSword

    GrandSword Burning Hammaaaaah!!!

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    Angelus, is probably the equivalent of the Joker, a sadistic evil mastermind, but also has super powers. Buffy bested him, even though she was in love with him which gives her a huge disadvantage. She wont be in love with Joker, she'll just kick his ass.

    Buffy's greatest trait thorughout the series was her ability to adapt to any oppoennt mid fight. It is the reason she is the longest living (sort of) Slayer of all time. Most Slayers don't live past a certain age, but Buffy is the greatest of all time.

    My question in this is should Buffy be in the "Supers" section, because she beats Joker here...
     
    #38
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  14. FlexAmerican Dynamite

    FlexAmerican Dynamite RIP Cooper's Title Reign

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    How Joker is winning fucking baffles me. It's the same reason why Batman is beating Mario and it's because of popularity. Yes Joker is a maniacal lunatic, that in no way shape or form means he can automatically beat Buffy who has slayed Vampires, Werewolves and other various creatures.

    Joker doesn't have Buffy's fighting ability.

    Joker doesn't have Buffy's intelligence.

    Joker just can't fucking beat Buffy.

    I know I might be fighting a losing battle here, and I definitely expect some ridiculous upsets based on popularity but there's no fucking way Joker beats Buffy.

    Vote Buffy: Because Joker's just some maniac who's popular thanks to a movie that's completely overrated.
     
    #39
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  15. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
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    Joker's biggest argument is his ability to withstand punishment and his gadgets. Both are valid arguments but Ech has been bringing it hard though with his pro Buffy posts. I'm not a huge Buffy fan but she deserves to go over here. She is basically a super-human and deals with hunting down vampires and other demonic shit on the reg. Joker is obsessed with a guy who dresses like a bat and he is mentally unstable.

    Due to his obsession with Batman he probably won't even take Buffy seriously.
     
    #40
  16. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Dont read this next part Coco.


    From what I remember\read- her protection was mostly an enhancement of her normal powers and also protection while she slept. As far as the other powers go later on- Angel had to give her a reason to fight so the abilities would activate and once she won the fight\broke the seed, those powers were gone. Might be off on timing but thats what I remember- its been a while.



    He might not, but its possible. Just like Buffy might not just run up and stab him 30 times with a wooden stake, but its possible. More likely they would fight and then Joker pulls a trick weapon to end it before she kills him.




    Why would he need armor? He might be skinny, but hes not frail or made of glass. Joker has been stabbed, shot, blown up, drowned in chemicals and gotten the shit kicked out of him by very strong guys in capes. He wouldnt get knocked out with one kick to the head. She isnt the Hulk or Goku for christ sake. She has enhanced human ability. Joker has taken those shots before. Still alive.



    Yes you did. Said a few posts back knives, electricity and gas wont stop\hurt her. That implies she is indestructible\cant be hurt by those things. Stronger than Joker or not- She can and has been taken out with electricity and blows to the head. You still have not shown me proof that she wont be effected by the Joker Gas. She heals faster than normal, that means she would be knocked out for less time, not that it wouldnt hurt her.



    Um, acid isnt a poison. Its a corrosive. A shot to the face would most certainly do more than just blind her- it would melt her face off. Huge freaking difference.


    So, Joker could fry her with the joy-buzzer, spray her with the gas or acid and call it a day. She has nothing that prevents her from being effected by those. I am ruling the 'protection' void because Angel isnt here to motivate her\awaken the extra power and the powers were gone after she destroyed the seed. Other than that, she is just a chick with a big toothpick and enhanced human ability.


    This is a guy so sick and twisted that other villains want nothing to do with him. He is by far not as weak\un-skilled as some people say.
     
    #41
  17. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    The powers she gained that made her a match for modern era Superman? Yeah those are gone, but the mystical protection that prevents wounds from small conventional weapons like a dagger or a handgun is still there. Or at least it was until she destroyed the seed; but I won't except arguments against that Buffy because the arc is still ongoing.

    If the Joker wore protective armor like Batman or was strong and durable like Bane you might have a leg to stand on, but after one punch he'd hit the ground hard. One more and he'd be out cold. I serious doubt he'd even get the chance to use any of his gadgets.

    Seriously, Warren was a normal human and Buffy hit him with a regular roundhouse that not only sent him flying, but he couldn't even recover enough to stand.

    Buffy's strength shits all over Batman's. A fully powered punch from her has enough power to rip a steel door off its hinges. Are you telling me that Joker could take a punch like that and just laugh it off? I'd love to see proof of that.

    And when we say "taken out by blow to the head" we're referring to someone like Glory, who has pissed off Hulk level strength, smacking her upside the head. If Joker punched her in the face, it wouldn't do anything but piss her off.

    As for the gas she has heightened resilience to poisons; the gas would slow her down but it wouldn't take her out out long enough for the Joker to get in a finishing blow.

    But it wouldn't kill her you know, with her higher degree of durability.

    So basically Joker's joy buzzer is the only thing that he keeps on his person that has the power to take her out, and in a realistic setting he probably wouldn't even use it off the back. That's one thing compared a host of abilities that Buffy has to beat his ass into submission.

    Your entire argument rests on the notion that Joker could survive her initial onslaught, which is unlikely considering that every time she's seriously attacked a regular human they don't recover enough to mount a counter attack.
     
    #42
  18. justinsayne

    justinsayne Cody Rhodes is an excellant

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    From his bio

    Joker is no slouch when it comes to fighting ability, the fucker can go if he wants to, plus he lives for cause pain, suffering, & anarchy.

    Bullshit, Joker has a genius level IQ, again from the fucking bio

    Uh yeah he can, this fight is substantially closer than you think, or want to admit.

    This is such a god damn idiotic statement, Joker is & has been one of the most popular pop culture figures for nearly 70 fucking years, long before Heath Ledger was ever if swimming around in his father's ballsack.

    Vote Joker: Because Buffy is just some bitchwho's only popular thanks to a tv series that's completely overrated, & incredibly ridiculous.

    After beating him to within an inch of his life with a crowbar

    Uh, yeah they are...

    perhaps next time you should read the bio a little more closely
     
    #43
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  19. FlexAmerican Dynamite

    FlexAmerican Dynamite RIP Cooper's Title Reign

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    Yet he still doesn't compare to Buffy when it comes to combat.

    Yet still not smarter than Buffy



    I'm willing to admit that it wouldn't be an easy victory, but it's certainly not a fight Joker would win.

    Still doesn't negate the fact that Ledger's Joker brought a whole new group of people were new to the character and made them idolize it and made original fans love him even more. Joker gets a lot of credit in this tourney solely on Ledger's acting and popularity he got from the movie and yes that's going to effect the vote.

    I'm not a huge Buffy fan, I'm not a huge Sarah Michelle Gellar fan. But I know that Joker winning this fight is bullshit.
     
    #44
  20. DirtyJosé

    DirtyJosé Best angle of all: retirement

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    Justin's last post was really all I needed to read. Joker is a force of nature, for fuck's sake. If one word describes him, it's "adaptable". Whoa, what the hell did I just say? I'll explain.

    You can (and writers have) take Joker and put him against ANYONE in or out of the DC Universe and he's always a lethal threat. The nature of the character is as such that he can be whatever he needs to be in any given situation. This is why there are so many different aspects to The Joker, so many different takes on him. This has even been mentioned in a book before: the idea that Joker possess some form of super-sanity that allows him to adapt to what reality he's in at the moment.

    I say this because I just don't find a blessed vampire hunter to be something he couldn't handle. I just don't see him being caught off guard enough to be vanquished easily. Along with that, as Justin pointed out, this is a guy who can and has defeated Batman in hand to hand combat. Joker has always been shown to possess an insanely high pain threshold. I don't think the example of Buffy beating on a regular human is particularly relevant here.
     
    #45
  21. BK Styles

    BK Styles Certified Nerd

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    Okay, let's look at the entire hand-to-hand part.

    And now Buffy's

    In regard to the second bolded part, if Batman; a very strong yet normal human can beat Joker with physical force, Buffy sure as hell can. And Joker may be quick, but he isn't super-quick. Buffy would dodge all of his hits and beat him before he gets a chance to counter. If Batman can beat Joker in a fight most of the time, Buffy easily can.

    But he has a normal humans limitations. It might be the absolute maximum a human can take, but it's still a regular humans limitations. Buffy has limitations far beyond what a regular man or woman can take.

    I cannot, and don't want to argue with this statement.

    This is true. But Buffy still has it.

    Hold the fuck on. If we take popularity out of this and take the two sole characters, Buffy is far more than just some bitch. She's some bitch who's super strong, fast, agile, has a healing factor, can quickly analyze an opponents strengths/weaknesses and has some form of mystical protection. I agree totally with the statement about Ledger, but your following statement is idiotic in the sense that you're MASSIVELY underestimating her. Joker may be a psychopath, but Buffy has faced people with similar derranged tendancies before. Maybe not as extreme, but it's nothing new to her. She has the potential to beat him closer to death than Batman could ever dream of, and unlike the Dark Knight, she will kill him.

    Doesn't really matter, that won't do anything here. Buffy can get up after being hit by a car. Or a truck (from the bio). She's fallen five stories onto her face and got back up, clawed herself out of her own grave, just to name a few thigns she can endure. Joker beating her with a crowbar? Bitch, please.

    And most, if not all of it, is stuff she's dealt with before. Buffy would be able to dodge most of Joker's toys. And even if she couldn't, as has been mention, she can take an unreal amount of punishment. He'd have to hit her a lot of times to keep her down. Buffy needs one shot up close, and she'll stab him in the heart.

    Maybe you should read Buffy's too. In terms of hand-to-hand, Joker has basic and moderate in hand-to-hand. The only thing he has is speed, and that he is a master of martial arts. Buffy is an expert in martial arts too, only with super-strength and super speed added to the mix. In a fistfight, Joker is outmatched. He wouldn't go down easily, but he is fucked.

    It wouldn't be easy. Far from it. The regular human example is because Buffy isn't meant to kill normal people, but will if they're evil. Remember that her usual repertoire is kicking the living crap out of super-powered vamps for fun, and bigger, scarier, smarter and stronger demons for serious business. As for hand-to-hand, Buffy is as skilled in fighting hand-to-hand as Batman (or very, very close) and has the added super-strength, speed, reflexes that he doesn't have. Joker couldn't take her in a straight-up fist fight. And Buffy is smart enough to known there's more to Joker than meets the eye, and has the reflexes to dodge any of his gadgets.

    Whilst I will admit Joker is more sadistic and anarchic,than anyone Buffy has faced before, she's faced people similar (Angelus). Joker realistically is nothing new to Buffy, just more extreme.

    The thing is here, either could win. But for me, Buffy has too much in her favor.
     
    #46
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  22. justinsayne

    justinsayne Cody Rhodes is an excellant

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    Fuck sake, Joker is NOT a normal human, I don't understand why people keep talking about as if he's random Joe Blow off the streets. Joker is easily the most unpredictable human being on Earth, he's killed thousands of people without batting an eye, he's taken on various superheros, including Batman, Superman, Spectre, & Green Lantern & taken all to the limit. The guy is the furthest thing from normal. Buffy has never come up against anything or anyone as fucked up & unpredictable as Joker, before facing off against all these little demons, werewolves, gods, vampires, etc. that you are all so fond of, Buffy is often shown doing her research. She's not going to be able to do any research before this battle, & she'll have zero idea as to what she's facing, she gets to close to Joker & he could easily spray her with his Joker Venom, killing her, he grab her he with his joy buzzer & electrocute her, he could simply just pull out a gun an shoot her in the fucking head, and some razor sharp playing cards, nobody knows what Joker is going to do, or how he's going to kill when they face, nobody not even Joker.
     
    #47
  23. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Since Justinsayne and Dirty got the others covered, ill stick to you. We cool, but again I have to point some things out.


    I can understand the dagger being shattered or not cutting her (I think thats what I read happened), but there is still nothing I have seen that says she can stop a bullet. Completely different weapon than a knife. I think she would recover very fast from a bullet to the brain, much faster than a normal person- but it would still put her down for a bit. Technically that counts as a win if she cant continue for a few hours till she wakes up.




    Why people ignore the maniacal durability of the Joker is beyond me. He isnt your teenage neighbor. He isnt the local grocer. He isnt the star quarterback. He has been taken to the limit by the best DC has in many different situations and has kept on ticking. He is purely insane and that allows him to push his limits and his pain threshold is off the charts. Plus the fact that he can dish it out as well as take it. Once again- he is no slouch like some try to claim when it comes to the fisticuffs department.



    Actually I stated the part where Cordelia hit her with a mannequin arm.



    Again, this falls into the 'accelerated healing\recovery' part of her abilities. There is a big difference between that and what you claim. She most certainly would be effected, but would recover faster than a normal person. She still would go down for a nap, even if she gets back up eventually. That is the finishing blow because she would be out.



    Just because she doesnt bruise easily and her bones take more to break than normal- that doesnt mean she is impervious to corrosive acid. So it takes a few extra seconds to melt her face off, it would still in fact -melt her face off.




    He really could. They start brawling and he realizes she is stronger than he thought. He grabs her arm and zaps her. Then does the waltz with her unconscious body, dancing around and humming a tune. He dips her, the Joker gas sprays from his lapel and she drops. He walks away still humming that tune while she is passed the fuck out.




    Here is the thing. Joker has spent decades proving to Batman that he is his equal, yet exact opposite in character. It drives Bruce crazy. Joker is 100% insane and even other bad guys think he is mentally unstable. Joker would look at this tournament as a way to once again get at Wayne and cause chaos to prove his point. Buffy stands in his way to this goal. She stands in his way to get what he wants- another chance to torment Batman.


    Joker would take whatever beating he needed to. He will pull out whatever trick he has to get the job done. Motivation is a powerful thing. Joker is one very intelligent man and has Buffy beat there hands down. If you or anyone thinks that an insane, murderous, sadistic, genius with a handful of deadly weapons is a pushover- you are wrong. If you think a roundhouse kick is going to stop this type of man- you are misinformed. Underestimating this man and his mental state is the last mistake Buffy will make.


    Also, saying 'she will just kick him in the head before he uses that' is a very lame argument. That doesnt deal with the issue. It dances around admitting that she just truly cannot defend against that certain weapon.
     
    #48
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