Round 1; 19 Deus Ex v 110 Dragon Warrior

[Lee]

v

 

[X]

Sorry IC, but I can't vote for Dragon Warrior here. I give it a ton of respect, but I've never really been a big fan of the Dragon Quest series aside form Part VIII. I'd give Warrior the vote 9 times out of 10 based soley on respect alone, but unfortunately for it's come up against Deus Ex, one of my favorite games ever.

Deus Ex is hands down the greatest game to utilize a future dystopian setting. The story has so many layers, and is so unpredictable. I won't spoil anything, but you will NEVER see some of the twists in the game coming. One of the few games to make my jaw drop and have me scratching my head saying "I can't believe he just did that!"

If you've never played Deus Ex, go get yourself a copy NOW. Torrrents, Ebay, Gamestop, it doesn't matter how, just go go go and GET a copy now. You will thank me once you've found yourself immersed in it's world.

Sorry IC, but Deus Ex takes the cake here, and it's no contest for me.

 

[Ty Burna]

IC, I'm really really really REALLY sorry to do this, but I have to go with Deus Ex. I'm a huge RPG ****e if you couldn't tell, but Deus Ex was simply amazing. If you looked up Cyberpunk game in the dictionary, a picture of Deus Ex's cover would be right next to it. I don't consider Fallout necessarily cyberpunk persay, but I could throw it in that category and give it just a slight, VERY slight edge over Deus Ex.

Anyway, Deus Ex was an amazing game in every way possible. It was one of the first games where you could literally do anything, and everything. Take any path necessary to reach whatever goal you wished to reach. The storyline was top notch, and the action was awesome as well. Dragon Warrior, eh it was a fine RPG and all, but we're talking about a genre defining and groundbreaking game it's going against.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

You should all be embarassed and ashamed of yourselves. Burna, X - I expect better from you both.

I understand the enjoyment of Deus X. I've never played it, mind you, nor had I heard of it prior to this tournament. I did research it when I found it was going to be going up against one of my all-time favorite games in Dragon Warrior. And I realize it is a very famous PC game. Hell, I'll even concede the obvious fact that Deus X has more to do and a more enthralling plot line, which is important to me.

But Deus X isn't even a decade old. It was released in 2000, at a time when PC games were at an all-time boom and technology afforded us the opportunity to do more with graphics and PC's could handle a wider range of decisions.

Dragon Warrior / Dragon Quest was released a full 14 years earlier, in 1986. Nintendo itself had only been released in North America a year prior, in 1985. Which is why this statement:

Dragon Warrior, eh it was a fine RPG and all, but we're talking about a genre defining and groundbreaking game it's going against.

is so baffling. You're calling Dragon Warrior an "all-right RPG" and then calling Deus X "groundbreaking and genre defining???"

Dude, have you realized that without the success of Dragon Warrior, there may have been no Final Fantasy? Dragon Warrior, along side Legend of Zelda, was THE ORIGINAL RPG! It's the original console RPG, folks, and the first game where you could choose who to speak to, where to travel, what to fight, etc. Sure, you had a plotine to follow in order to beat the game, but at which level you accomplished these certain tasks was your choice. I realize that in today's sterilized gaming world of Grand Theft Autos and the like, we take this for granted, but for those of you who were alive in 1986 (I was 5 years old) this shit was HUGE.

A vote for Deus X is just a vote for technology. A vote for Dragon Warrior is a vote for history and inspiration.

Do the right thing, and vote for Dragon Warrior.

 

[Lee]

Dragon Warrior, eh it was a fine RPG and all,but we're talking about a genre defining and groundbreaking game it's going against.

Just re read that again...yup



He said Dragon Warrior was going against a genre & groundbreaking game. Let me tell you something, Dragon Warrior is probably one of the most influential games of all time.

Final Fantasy took its battle system, its in depth story and all round classic RPG ness to form one of the greatest franchises ever, heck even The legend of Zelda; The adventure of link stole some parts.

Heck without Dragon Warrior there would be a huge gap in the RPG market with final fantasy severely lacking too...so it's quite debatable that the action RPG genre would be quite screwed, as well as Deus Ex.

 

[D-Man]

Deus Ex is a

genre defining and groundbreaking game

?!?!?

Um, seriously?!?!? Actually, I've been (what has been called) a "Vidiot" for three quarters of my life, played and conquered every influencial game from the early 1980's until now, and I've BARELY heard of Deus Ex. So how is it so genre defining?? Obviously, that was a comlpetely opinionated statement.

There is only one thing that needs to be said in this matchup...

FACT: Without Dragon Warrior, there would be no Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, or any other D&D type RPG game for a home console.

This tournament isn't about what your favorite game is... it's about what the BEST game is. Dragon Warrior is the Hulk Hogan of RPG games.

THE END.

Vote Dragon Warrior.

 

[X]

This tournament isn't about what your favorite game is... it's about what the BEST game is. Dragon Warrior is the Hulk Hogan of RPG games.

...But that's EXACTLY what you and IC are doing! Deus Ex has better and more complex gameplay, a story that puts Dragon Warrior to total shame, and is just all around a better game on every critera you can use to judge a game. YOU GUYS are the ones voting based on your favorite personal game and nostalgia and not the BEST game.

There's one major factor that all of you seem to be missing though when it comes to voting for Deus Ex over Dragon Warrior.

Deus Ex is about 12 million times more fun. Which is what games should be primarily judged on. You can be the most influential game in the history of civlization, but if it isn't fun to play, it's a piece of shit. I realize Warrior was probably the funnest thing ever for you as a kid IC, but it doesn't stand up well with the years that have passed. Just because something was the first of it's kind, doesn't make it the best of it's kind. Like it or not, video games ARE technology, and you cannot debate superior technology. That would be like debating Betamax over Blu-Ray, you won't win that argument.

Obviously though gameplay, story, character devlopment, etc are all taken into consideration as well. But Deus Ex trumps Warrior in every single one of those categories as well.

Sorry guys, but Deus Ex is just a better game, and you'd realize this if you put away the nostalgia bias you have for it. Say we were to find someone who had never played either game before, and sat them down to play them both. I'd almost guarantee they'd go with Deus Ex over Warrior based on fun alone.

Sorry guys, but being the first of something doesn't make it the best, especially in the world of video games, in which sequels and new games are constantly making old games obsolete.

 

[D-Man]

...But that's EXACTLY what you and IC are doing! Deus Ex has better and more complex gameplay, a story that puts Dragon Warrior to total shame, and is just all around a better game on every critera you can use to judge a game. YOU GUYS are the ones voting based on your favorite personal game and nostalgia and not the BEST game.

There's one major factor that all of you seem to be missing though when it comes to voting for Deus Ex over Dragon Warrior.

Deus Ex is about 12 million times more fun. Which is what games should be primarily judged on. You can be the most influential game in the history of civlization, but if it isn't fun to play, it's a piece of shit. I realize Warrior was probably the funnest thing ever for you as a kid IC, but it doesn't stand up well with the years that have passed. Just because something was the first of it's kind, doesn't make it the best of it's kind. Like it or not, video games ARE technology, and you cannot debate superior technology. That would be like debating Betamax over Blu-Ray, you won't win that argument.

Obviously though gameplay, story, character devlopment, etc are all taken into consideration as well. But Deus Ex trumps Warrior in every single one of those categories as well.

Sorry guys, but Deus Ex is just a better game, and you'd realize this if you put away the nostalgia bias you have for it. Say we were to find someone who had never played either game before, and sat them down to play them both. I'd almost guarantee they'd go with Deus Ex over Warrior based on fun alone.

Sorry guys, but being the first of something doesn't make it the best, especially in the world of video games, in which sequels and new games are constantly making old games obsolete.

This is simliar to the WZ Tournament in regards to primes... Dragon Warrior was released 14 years prior to Deus Ex. So, in order to compare them, you have to look at thir primes and the impact they made on gaming. I'm not dumb enough to compare Asteroids to Final Fantasy X, apples to apples.

So, knowing this, I refer everyone to my previous post.

Oh, and for the record, my favorite game of all time is Final Fantasy VIII, so I'm not playing favorites here.

 

[X]

This is simliar to the WZ Tournament in regards to primes... Dragon Warrior was released 14 years prior to Deus Ex. So, in order to compare them, you have to look at thir primes and the impact they made on gaming. I'm not dumb enough to compare Asteroids to Final Fantasy X, apples to apples

So, knowing this, I refer everyone to my previous post.

I read your previous post, and no offense but you didn't event attempt to explain what makes Warrior a better game. All you said was that Warrior is more influential than Deus Ex. So what? That has nothing to do with the actual gameplay/story/characters of the game at all.

If you actually compare the two step by step, Deus Ex is far superior. Gameplay? Much more fun. Story? Endleslly superior. Graphics? Better. Playability? Better. Character development? Better. Name me one thing that makes Warrior better than Deus Ex.

 

[Raw Power]

Why are people saying Zelda is an RPG - it's clearly not ,the extent that it's an RPG is that you change the name of the character at the start. It's an action/adventure game.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

...But that's EXACTLY what you and IC are doing! Deus Ex has better and more complex gameplay, a story that puts Dragon Warrior to total shame, and is just all around a better game on every critera you can use to judge a game. YOU GUYS are the ones voting based on your favorite personal game and nostalgia and not the BEST game.

There's one major factor that all of you seem to be missing though when it comes to voting for Deus Ex over Dragon Warrior.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a sec, X. I know D-Man and I are friends, and I know that he and I agree in voting on this topic, but please don't lump our arguments together. We aren't making the same argument here. we're voting for the same game for two different reasons.

Deus Ex is about 12 million times more fun. Which is what games should be primarily judged on.

Ah yes, the criteria dillema. The same issue people had issues with in the Wrestlezone tournament. I say to this the SAME THING I say about that - each individual poster picks their own criteria. Sure, fun factor plays a role here, but at the same time, you have to date this correctly. Deus X would probably be LOADS more fun to me as a 27 year old, but when I was 6, 10, and even 15 years old, Dragon Warrior was the epicentre of RPG fun in gaming.

So if you're gonna say that Deus X is more fun than Dragon Warrior to a 27-year old, I'll agree. But when I was 7 years old, Dragon Warrior was the end-all, be-all. Deus X would have been incomprehensible to me.

You can be the most influential game in the history of civlization, but if it isn't fun to play, it's a piece of shit. I realize Warrior was probably the funnest thing ever for you as a kid IC, but it doesn't stand up well with the years that have passed.

Neither would "Pong" or "Asteroids," but you have to respect it for its time. A lot has happened in the last 15 years in terms of technology which gave Deus X more capabilities for game size, graphics, etc. Plus, in 2000, video games were able to be marketed towards the adults who cut their teeth on kids games like...wait for it...DRAGON WARRIOR!

What I am saying is that Dragon Warrior 1987 > Deus X 2000.

And had Dragon Warrior not been fun, it wouldn't have been influential.

Just because something was the first of it's kind, doesn't make it the best of it's kind. Like it or not, video games ARE technology, and you cannot debate superior technology. That would be like debating Betamax over Blu-Ray, you won't win that argument.

X, since when have you taken issue with the value of influence from an originator?

Allow me to refresh your memory:

The real godfathers of grunge were a band called Green River, perhaps you heard of them? Original band for some of the guys from Mudhoney. Fantastic band, and I'd definately call them the originators of grunge over MLB any day considering MLB were only around from like 88-90 and Green River were already around by 86.

Okay, well, Dragon Warrior was around in 1986 and represents the Godfather of the console RPG. Vote Dragon Warrior.

Obviously though gameplay, story, character devlopment, etc are all taken into consideration as well. But Deus Ex trumps Warrior in every single one of those categories as well.

No doubt, again, because in 2000 technology was far more advanced. You had more characters and plotline and setting because you COULD. In 1986, Dragon Warrior's expansive landscape and variety in monsters and such was very cutting edge. You're doing Dragon Warrior a disservice if you are holding it to the technological standard of an age 15 years its senior.

Sorry guys, but Deus Ex is just a better game, and you'd realize this if you put away the nostalgia bias you have for it. Say we were to find someone who had never played either game before, and sat them down to play them both. I'd almost guarantee they'd go with Deus Ex over Warrior based on fun alone.

Sure, but hardly a fair experiement. We live in a society of overstimulated kids with HD televisions, BluRay DVD's with Dolby Surround sound, and the ability to "pause live TV" with DVR.

Let me tell you something (and pardon me while I date myself), but DVR was made possible by kids like me who used to sit by the VCR while a movie was on so he could hit "pause" when the commercials came on. Folks like me created demand.

Sorry guys, but being the first of something doesn't make it the best, especially in the world of video games, in which sequels and new games are constantly making old games obsolete.

Fair enough, but being the best of something in 1987 is a hell of a lot more impressive than being a marginal title in 2000. The 1986 Chicago Bears > The 2000 Cleveland Browns, no?

 

[Lee]

Why are people saying Zelda is an RPG - it's clearly not ,the extent that it's an RPG is that you change the name of the character at the start. It's an action/adventure game.

It's an action adventure RPG, there's no arguing about it. It shows how much games have developed since, Zelda was the first major RPG, Dragon Warrior was very hot off the tails at second. Now the RPG genre is defined by what Dragon Warrior did, things zelda 2 tried to add in but failed.

 

[Raw Power]

It's an action adventure RPG, there's no arguing about it. It shows how much games have developed since, Zelda was the first major RPG, Dragon Warrior was very hot off the tails at second. Now the RPG genre is defined by what Dragon Warrior did, things zelda 2 tried to add in but failed.

I always through RPG games were designed to be like Dungeons and Dragons kinda thing - i.e. levelling up, increasing stats etc.. Link never levels up, doesn't gain anything in terms of character stats from fighting etc.. The slim RPG traits it shares are also shared with games like GTA, yet no one calls those games RPG's. Action adventure definetly. I'm pretty sure even Nintendo themselves don't call it an RPG.

 

[Lee]

I always through RPG games were designed to be like Dungeons and Dragons kinda thing - i.e. levelling up, increasing stats etc.. Link never levels up, doesn't gain anything in terms of character stats from fighting etc.. The slim RPG traits it shares are also shared with games like GTA, yet no one calls those games RPG's. Action adventure definetly. I'm pretty sure even Nintendo themselves don't call it an RPG.

You've obviously never layed Zelda 2 then have you? In it link gains experience points, he levels up and grows in character. Every game has him grow, whether it be through new weapons, more hearts new songs on the orcarina etc.

Anyways this should be discussed in a zelda thread, not here...lets keep on topic and VOTE DRAGON WARRIOR!

 

[X]

Ah yes, the criteria dillema. The same issue people had issues with in the Wrestlezone tournament. I say to this the SAME THING I say about that - each individual poster picks their own criteria. Sure, fun factor plays a role here, but at the same time, you have to date this correctly. Deus X would probably be LOADS more fun to me as a 27 year old, but when I was 6, 10, and even 15 years old, Dragon Warrior was the epicentre of RPG fun in gaming.

So your argument that Dragon Warrior is a superior game to Deus Ex is that a 6 year old would enjoy it more? Come on IC, that's beyond ridiculious, and an incredibly weak argument to make in favor of Dragon Warrior.

This is a tournament to determine the best game, not what game is simple enough for a child to understand.

Neither would "Pong" or "Asteroids," but you have to respect it for its time. A lot has happened in the last 15 years in terms of technology which gave Deus X more capabilities for game size, graphics, etc. Plus, in 2000, video games were able to be marketed towards the adults who cut their teeth on kids games like...wait for it...DRAGON WARRIOR!

So Dragon Warrior is better than Deus X because it doesn't have the same quality of capabilities? Are you sure you aren't on my side in this debate?

What I am saying is that Dragon Warrior 1987 > Deus X 2000.

Too bad this contest doesn't take place in 1987, when Deus X didn't even exist yet.

This tournament is about stacking two games up side-by-side and asking "Which game is better?" Not which game was better for it's time, but which game is overall better. And Deus Ex is the overall better game. Dragon Warrior is good and super influential and all that jazz, but Deus Ex puts DW to shame in just about every comparitive aspect you could judge by.

X, since when have you taken issue with the value of influence from an originator?

Allow me to refresh your memory:

A) I never stated the influence SHOULDN'T be taken into consideration, but that it shouldn't be the deciding factor in the contest, which is what D-Man was doing. Wasn't aimed at you mate.

B) In my quote that you used, notice how I never stated that Green River was the BEST grunge band, but only that they started it. There were several better grunge bands, and in fact that quote is a great example of why being the most influential doesn't make you the best.

I'm just going to stop here by saying that I suggest anyone who's on the fence here go and actually play both games. If you've never played either, I would almost universally guarantee that you will enjoy Deus Ex more.

I realize I'm not going to change your mind on this one IC, so I'm just going to leave it at that. I respect Dragon Warrior immensely, but Deus Ex is just far more fun to play.

VOTE DEUS EX!​

 

[IrishCanadian25]

No, no, X, what I am saying is that if you take each game in context of its era, Dragon Warrior comes out on top. Obviously I don't expect people to displace themselves to 1986 and say "Deus X didn't exist at this time, so it loses." But I also don't want people to say "Deus X is more technologically sound because it was made in 2000, so it wins automatically."

Take each game in context of itself - Dragon Warrior meant more in 1986 than Deus X meant in 2000. Dragon Warrior was probably AS FUN in 1986 as Deus X was in 2000. It's like the Hulk Hogan / Steve Austin debate. Hogan was as entertaining in 1986 as Austin was in 2000. Obviously, IN 1986, Austin was a young rookie and Hogan was a mega star, and in 2000, Hogan was aging and Austin in his prime. But Hogan meant more to the business because he made guys like Austin possible. You follow now?

And you're damn right I'm voting based on favoritism. I haven't played 80% of these games. I am an old schooler. Since giving up my Super NES, I've played 3 games with regularity - Godfather and Mercenaries on the XBox and NHL Hockey on a Dreamcast I won @ a Devils game.

For all that is holy, people, vote for Dragon Warrior in this match-up. Anybody who votes for a Final Fantasy game for ANY reason should vote for Dragon Warrior automatically.

 

[Ty Burna]

is so baffling. You're calling Dragon Warrior an "all-right RPG" and then calling Deus X "groundbreaking and genre defining???"

Dude, have you realized that without the success of Dragon Warrior, there may have been no Final Fantasy? Dragon Warrior, along side Legend of Zelda, was THE ORIGINAL RPG! It's the original console RPG, folks, and the first game where you could choose who to speak to, where to travel, what to fight, etc. Sure, you had a plotine to follow in order to beat the game, but at which level you accomplished these certain tasks was your choice. I realize that in today's sterilized gaming world of Grand Theft Autos and the like, we take this for granted, but for those of you who were alive in 1986 (I was 5 years old) this shit was HUGE.

A vote for Deus X is just a vote for technology. A vote for Dragon Warrior is a vote for history and inspiration.

Do the right thing, and vote for Dragon Warrior.

Fine fine fine, maybe I overstepped a bit with the groundbreaking statement, but to me it was and my brain wasn't at 100% capacity at the moment mentally when the previous post was made. Dragon Warrior did have a lot of influence on future games and all, but honestly I find Deus Ex to be a better game, I had far more fun playing that then Dragon Warrior, and before you go off saying I was too young to play it, I started off on the motherfucking Atari and the NES when I was 4 years old.

Now this being all said, if you want to go that route that Dragon Warrior let you go and do whatever the fuck you want, well Deus Ex perfected it in my eyes. And if you want to go even further, you could go with the MUD's and text based RPG's and hell, Dungeons and Dragons that influenced Dragon Warrior, so what's your point? I would have to argue that D&D had far more influence on RPG video games than Dragon Warrior did. I see it as the influence is a moot point and I go off the basis of which game was funner for me during the era that I played them both in. I played Dragon Warrior in the early 90's, I played Deus Ex roughly around 2005 when I got my hands on it. So I wasn't far off when either were around, and I just remember having a blast with Deus Ex, Dragon Warrior was one of those games I played, got bored with it, and then went to play Zelda II or SMB 3. Now don't get me wrong, Dragon Warrior saved RPGs on consoles, and for that I'm truly greatful for what it stands for. But the fact remains Deus Ex was far more fun for me, and when it comes to video games, that is the main point of how good a game is for me. To give you an example: MGS series, everyone sings the praises of this series, yet I would rather go play motherfucking Peggle then any MGS game. Why? Peggle is fun, MGS bores me to tears.

 

[Lee]

Deus Ex wins