ROH vs. NJPW Discussion

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

So this is happening in May at two shows in Ontario and New York. I'm guessing the later will be a Hammerstein show. Okada, Tanahashi, Liger, Nakamura, Kota Ibushi, Gedo and Jado all confirmed.

 

[BaconBits]

I don't know that it'll particularly benefit NJPW or RoH in in North America. There really isn't a huge fanbase for that style of wrestling in these parts.

But RoH in Japan would be great for them. The Japanese fans would appreciate puro/indy style wrestling way more than North American fans would.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Yeah, I can't see ROH making a lot of money on this, but it's great for the fans. They have to be counting on high DVD sales. The Hammerstain either sells out, or comes close to selling out, almost every time they work there. Which isn't hard, but the point is, it's not going to get "more" sold out just because NJPW is there.

It's too bad Punk's 90 day clause won't be up by May.

 

[klunderbunker]

I've never seen the point of shows like this.

These kind of companies always have loyal fans and ROH has some of the most loyal. They're like I am with WWE: they're going to watch no matter what is presented and there's no way around that.

That brings us to the Japanese guys. Most wrestling fans have likely never heard of these guys and aren't interested in watching a bunch of matches to check them out. It doesn't help that (to the best of my knowledge) there aren't any in depth stories to these matches. It's trying to sell fans on the idea of "watch this match with no story and no reason for them to fight." THe matches likely will be exciting, but most casual fans are going to watch matches because of the stories rather than the action almost every time.

It's like Starrcade 1995. Come to think of it this pretty much is Starrcade 1995. Heck Liger is on both cards. That show bombed to be nice about it and was a dismal failure to put it more realistically. It'll be fun for the diehards but not great for the accountants.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

I don't think New Japan needs this as much as they need an english commentary team. It will be fun, but both companies are so far apart as far as in-ring style, profitability and overness of said talent that I find it quite complicated to book around them.

There are some possible fun matches to do, but at the end of the day it's just an attraction. I could see Okada teaming up with Adam Cole to go after Tanahashi/AJ Styles (?). Elgin win definitely have match with one of New Japan stars as he's probably the best worker in ROH today. It will be two good shows and some matches I wouldn't mind at all to see:

Kazuchika Okada vs. AJ Styles
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kevin Steen as in the #1 of said promotion
Adam Cole defending against Nakamura or Kota Ibushi.

and they just NEED to do:
Michael Elgin v. Ishii or Kojima

After this match it will be no longer "get your fucking head kicked in", but more in the lines of "getting your head ripped of". There's no way this can end up being bad for either of the promotions. Starting to get a hold of New Japan is fantastic since that is the #2 company in the world.

 

[justinsayne]

It's too bad Punk's 90 day clause won't be up by May.

To the best of my knowledge Punk is still under contract till July, 90 day clause wouldn't kick in unless WWE released him, & I don't see why they would, he can't work for anyone else till his contract is up, & I don't think they even have to pay him as long as he's sitting home because he's in breach of contract. If he did try & work for another promotion I believe WWE would have grounds to sue both Punk & whatever other promotion is trying to do business with him.

 

[justinsayne]

I've never seen the point of shows like this.

These kind of companies always have loyal fans and ROH has some of the most loyal. They're like I am with WWE: they're going to watch no matter what is presented and there's no way around that.

That brings us to the Japanese guys. Most wrestling fans have likely never heard of these guys and aren't interested in watching a bunch of matches to check them out. It doesn't help that (to the best of my knowledge) there aren't any in depth stories to these matches. It's trying to sell fans on the idea of "watch this match with no story and no reason for them to fight." THe matches likely will be exciting, but most casual fans are going to watch matches because of the stories rather than the action almost every time.

It's like Starrcade 1995. Come to think of it this pretty much is Starrcade 1995. Heck Liger is on both cards. That show bombed to be nice about it and was a dismal failure to put it more realistically. It'll be fun for the diehards but not great for the accountants.

To expose ROH & indie wrestling fans who may not have ever seen New Japan to New Japan. I don't know if you've ever notice but the type of fans that are loyal to ROH & indie promotion, & are gonna care about this kinda thing care more about in ring action than any story surrounding a match.

If Alex Shelley doesn't come over as part of this, then I'll be seriously disappointed, I'd absolutely love to see reDRagon vs. TimeSplitters.

 

[klunderbunker]

To expose ROH & indie wrestling fans who may not have ever seen New Japan to New Japan. I don't know if you've ever notice but the type of fans that are loyal to ROH & indie promotion, & are gonna care about this kinda thing care more about in ring action than any story surrounding a match.

If Alex Shelley doesn't come over as part of this, then I'll be seriously disappointed, I'd absolutely love to see reDRagon vs. TimeSplitters.

So they're targeting an audience of about 8 people?

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

So they're targeting an audience of about 8 people?

Your eight people is a lot in the independent business. How is that different from the old territories bringing guys from other areas for a special appearance? I mean Maple Leaf had Bruno Sammartino, Ric Flair, Andre once in a while and it's not like Canada had a strong television following to get Sammartino's overness or Andre's, however they were proven to be a big deal. People underestimate the wrestling market.

 

[klunderbunker]

Your eight people is a lot in the independent business. How is that different from the old territories bringing guys from other areas for a special appearance? I mean Maple Leaf had Bruno Sammartino, Ric Flair, Andre once in a while and it's not like Canada had a strong television following to get Sammartino's overness or Andre's, however they were proven to be a big deal. People underestimate the wrestling market.

It's different because back then everything was word of mouth. There was a New Japan show earlier this month that was on the internet in full about eight hours later. I find it unlikely that a large amount of ROH fans haven't seen/heard of New Japan. It'll sell out and will probably see good DVD sale numbers, but I doubt it'll draw in a lot of new fans.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Will KENTA be there? Or is he still with Pro Wrestling Noah? Anytime I get to see KENTA is a good day.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

It's different because back then everything was word of mouth. There was a New Japan show earlier this month that was on the internet in full about eight hours later. I find it unlikely that a large amount of ROH fans haven't seen/heard of New Japan. It'll sell out and will probably see good DVD sale numbers, but I doubt it'll draw in a lot of new fans.

But the basic principle is the same - ROH fans are aware of New Japan's existence but as many others they just don't grasp it because it's japanese and it's tough to follow something that we don't understand. This is a good outlet for New Japan to get his kick in the door in a new market and it sure as hell is a good opportunity to ROH get some exposure to Japanese fans - some of the most loyal pro-wrestling fans that have made New Japan #2 in the world as far as profitability goes.

It's a special attraction. It's a good way to give exposure to both their businesses. How bad can it be? Even if they don't get any new fans, at least they had two good shows and made good money.

Will KENTA be there? Or is he still with Pro Wrestling Noah? Anytime I get to see KENTA is a good day.

No Dynamite. KENTA is still with NOAH. Japanese wrestlers are very loyal. I hate that! ahah kidding.

 

[klunderbunker]

But the basic principle is the same - ROH fans are aware of New Japan's existence but as many others they just don't grasp it because it's japanese and it's tough to follow something that we don't understand. This is a good outlet for New Japan to get his kick in the door in a new market and it sure as hell is a good opportunity to ROH get some exposure to Japanese fans - some of the most loyal pro-wrestling fans that have made New Japan #2 in the world as far as profitability goes.

It's a special attraction. It's a good way to give exposure to both their businesses. How bad can it be? Even if they don't get any new fans, at least they had two good shows and made good money.

It won't be a disaster or anything. WCW was a different kind of thing as it was all about the live show whereas this is going to be about the DVD sales. I just don't see it as being this great idea that I've seen people talk about it as being.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

It won't be a disaster or anything. WCW was a different kind of thing as it was all about the live show whereas this is going to be about the DVD sales. I just don't see it as being this great idea that I've seen people talk about it as being.

It's a good kick in the door for New Japan. It's not like they are going global or anything, but it's a start. Most people know that Tanahashi is a good wrestler, but a lot of them haven't seen him. Maybe after it, some will consider it, I don't know. It's not gonna change the world for sure and I don't think people believe it will. Well to me is where ROH will be interesting, as of right now I couldn't careless for instance. This matches with New Japan guys will make me tune in. Hopefully you too, even if it's just a match!!

 

[klunderbunker]

It's a good kick in the door for New Japan. It's not like they are going global or anything, but it's a start. Most people know that Tanahashi is a good wrestler, but a lot of them haven't seen him. Maybe after it, some will consider it, I don't know. It's not gonna change the world for sure and I don't think people believe it will. Well to me is where ROH will be interesting, as of right now I couldn't careless for instance. This matches wil New Japan guys will make me tune in. Hopefully you too, even if it's just a match!!

I get why it's good for New Japan. Not so much ROH.

Well let's see. I'm not a fan of ROH. I'm not a fan of New Japan. I'm sure I can find some Bulldog Bob Brower matches to keep me entertained otherwise.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

I get why it's good for New Japan. Not so much ROH.

Well let's see. I'm not a fan of ROH. I'm not a fan of New Japan. I'm sure I can find some Bulldog Bob Brower matches to keep me entertained otherwise.

Well New Japan fans will sure want to know what their top stars are doing. Japanese wresters are true celebrities out there and some of them could give it a try if Tanahashi or Okada really end up being on the cards. One thing I feel is that japanese are more of pro wrestling fans and not only the strong style and puroresu of their home country. I could definitely see a few schmucks dressing up like Kevin Steen one day. It's also a way for Japanese TV to get a look at it. TNA ended up getting TV contracts in Japan after their crossed shows there. ROH will make some money with this.

It's your taste man! Each and everyone with it's own. Also good reference on Brower after I mentioned Maple Leaf

 

[klunderbunker]

Well New Japan fans will sure want to know what their top stars are doing. Japanese wresters are true celebrities out there and some of them could give it a try if Tanahashi or Okada really end up being on the cards. One thing I feel is that japanese are more of pro wrestling fans and not only the strong style and puroresu of their home country. I could definitely see a few schmucks dressing up like Kevin Steen one day. It's also a way for Japanese TV to get a look at it. TNA ended up getting TV contracts in Japan after their crossed shows there. ROH will make some money with this.

It's your taste man! Each and everyone with it's own. Also good reference on Brower after I mentioned Maple Leaf

Some yes. I'm just not sure it's enough to warrant what they're doing.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

This creates buzz, and buzz makes money.

KENTA and NOAH in ROH made them a lot of money. KENTA on the card would sell out arenas for ROH. If anyone doesn't know this, every ROH show that featured Takeshai Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson was sold-out during their feud. Every single show. That is with NOAH. NOAH is to Japan as TNA is to America, only NOAH offers something different compared to New Japan whereas TNA offers fans WWE watered down.

New Japan is the second biggest wrestling company in the world. They sold-out the Tokyo Dome for Wrestle Kingdom in eight hours; EIGHT HOURS! ROH's name is going to be ****ed in Japan. People are going to be talking about ROH in America which in-turn will get more people watching, and so far in 2014 anyone who isn't mentally challenged doesn't have to look at the product twice and say, "you know what, this is pretty good."

Both events will sell-out. Both events will be available on iPPV (per Meltzer, NJPW will be selling them on uStream) and both events will be great. And say what you want, "DS you're such an ROH mark", cause you're damn right I am, and this is exactly why. Because while TNA is shit and WWE is busy fiddling around with a network ROH is concentrating on providing the best wrestling product they can. And right now, combing the two rosters of theirs and New Japan's, you won't find better.

 

[klunderbunker]

This creates buzz, and buzz makes money.

KENTA and NOAH in ROH made them a lot of money. KENTA on the card would sell out arenas for ROH. If anyone doesn't know this, every ROH show that featured Takeshai Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson was sold-out during their feud. Every single show. That is with NOAH. NOAH is to Japan as TNA is to America, only NOAH offers something different compared to New Japan whereas TNA offers fans WWE watered down.

New Japan is the second biggest wrestling company in the world. They sold-out the Tokyo Dome for Wrestle Kingdom in eight hours; EIGHT HOURS! ROH's name is going to be ****ed in Japan. People are going to be talking about ROH in America which in-turn will get more people watching, and so far in 2014 anyone who isn't mentally challenged doesn't have to look at the product twice and say, "you know what, this is pretty good."

Both events will sell-out. Both events will be available on iPPV (per Meltzer, NJPW will be selling them on uStream) and both events will be great. And say what you want, "DS you're such an ROH mark", cause you're damn right I am, and this is exactly why. Because while TNA is shit and WWE is busy fiddling around with a network ROH is concentrating on providing the best wrestling product they can. And right now, combing the two rosters of theirs and New Japan's, you won't find better.

Well I'm not sure how impressive it is to sell out a small arena in New York City or that the Tokyo Dome being sold out in 8 hours is incredibly impressive when I believe it was Survivor Series 1993 that sold out in less than an hour (about 1/4 of the capacity in case you were wondering) or that the shows will actually be viewable on iPPV, but I hope it does make money for them.

I do like that they're trying something and seemingly going back more towards the live events/DVD market as it works far better for them.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Wrestle Kingdom was in-front of 35,000. ROH may do their shows from the Hammerstein but when they pack it like they will here you won't find many arenas in the world that has that atmosphere. What this is, is a big statement from ROH; whether people like it or not they will recognize it for what it is. 2011 and 2012 weren't great years, 2013 was a year where they needed to bring everything back to normality, and 2014 has been the year so far where their striking and instead of doing it while the iron is hot, their keeping the iron hot. From Chris Hero's return to AJ Styles' return to this; it may have taken awhile but ROH is now sending its message. It might not have the best production values and you may not be able to watch every show live, but what it does have is the best wrestling and the best young wrestlers going.

 

[klunderbunker]

Wrestle Kingdom was in-front of 35,000. ROH may do their shows from the Hammerstein but when they pack it like they will here you won't find many arenas in the world that has that atmosphere. What this is, is a big statement from ROH; whether people like it or not they will recognize it for what it is. 2011 and 2012 weren't great years, 2013 was a year where they needed to bring everything back to normality, and 2014 has been the year so far where their striking and instead of doing it while the iron is hot, their keeping the iron hot. From Chris Hero's return to AJ Styles' return to this; it may have taken awhile but ROH is now sending its message. It might not have the best production values and you may not be able to watch every show live, but what it does have is the best wrestling and the best young wrestlers going.

I'm certainly not a huge fan but the show I watched from January was miles better than what they were putting on in 2011. As far as the graphics go, they're almost up to where OVW was five years ago so that's something I guess, but it's true that those don't matter all that much.

As for the being able to watch live, they need to either find a way to do that or stop trying as it looks horrible for them.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Meltzer reported during the week Go Fight Live are pestering ROH to let them try again because ROH was their most profitable customer but ROH is declining unless GFL can guarantee a success and prove it using an outside source, because they don't want to take that hit in image again. Cary Silkin said a few months ago in an interview I listened of his, if he wanted to he could get ROH on live PPV, but said he just doesn't think It'd be profitable at that stage.

 

[klunderbunker]

I can't imagine it would be either. The PPV providers take half of WWE's money and WWE would be getting probably 30 times the buys that ROH can get. The internet is a great idea for them but didn't Go Fight Live offer a free show back in the fall and it didn't work either? I was at a WWE house show that night or I might have checked it out.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

GFL offered the show for free. What ROH found good about it is over 5,000 were watching. First half was flawless, second-half went haywire and people didn't get to see Adam Cole win the World title which was a pretty big moment, considering Cole is pretty obviously going to be a big thing someday.

 

[klunderbunker]

And that's why it needs to be dropped until it's ready.