Report: The *REAL* Reason Ziggler's Push Ended?

[Jack-Hammer]

There's a report out via the WON alleging the reason as to why Dolph Ziggler's push in 2013 came to a pretty sudden halt.

The report states that Dolph Ziggler earned some major heat with WWE officials over comments made around the time of SummerSlam and that one of the subjects of these comments was Randy Orton. Ziggler was giving an interview to MLive.com on September 4th and the comments, allegedly, getting Ziggler in trouble were:

"I've made it clear; I'm not patient at all - several times. I've been very vocal about my position on the card and in the company. I'm not trying to say 'Hey, everybody sucks and I'm great!' But I love doing this, and at some point you go 'OK, It's not my time right now and I got to figure something out' And when it's time, that's when I must go out there and make as huge of an impact as I can and let everyone know 'I dare you to follow that, I dare you try something better.' And when they don't, I'm very outspoken about it and it can get me into very hot water."

"Then you never know where we're going. Everybody can be just so outspoken about taller guys, and guys like Randy Orton being the face of the WWE, the WWE Championship. I dare you to put me in a back alley with Randy Orton or someone like that. I guarantee I'm not afraid of someone taller."

This is the first I've heard about these comments and when I first saw the title of the article, I was honestly expecting something more inflammatory than this. It sounded like Ziggler was frustrated and felt that he deserves to be in the main event spot; hinting that he hasn't gotten it because he's not all that tall. I didn't see anything insulting towards Orton in the comments, rather than Ziggler was using Orton as an example of someone that Ziggler can hold his own with, in real life or otherwise.

Ziggler cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase the night after WrestleMania 29 and was injured via Jack Swagger with a legit concussion not too long thereafter. He was on the shelf for a month and dropped the title to Del Rio at Payback in mid-June. I'd read reports alleging that Ziggler started suffering some further symptoms of the concussion after this match and that was it for Ziggler's 2nd WHC run.

There's probably some degree of truth to Ziggler's claims and there's probably some degree of spin on his part. Ziggler's around 6'0", which is around where CM Punk is, so I'm not all that sure how much height had to do with anything. If Ziggler's been shooting his mouth off for a while backstage, it could have rubbed some people the wrong way.

 

[BaconBits]

I doubt that's why his push was stopped. The fans never really got behind him on his own as a heel or face. He's one of those dudes that needs a manager to be over, and they took his manager off of me, and he simply wasn't getting over. I could absolutely see the E cutting their losses and stopping the push because it wasn't really working anyways.

Basically, he can claim to work super hard until he's blue in the face, but if it isn't working, it isn't working. It happens that way sometimes.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

With all the posturing going on in that article, it's tough to say what's true or not. But even if I take it at face value, I come up with this:

• He's a spot monkey
• He doesn't get it...it's not about beating up the other guy.
• He's injury prone.
• He's got a big mouth.
• He's probably not worth the effort.

Ultimately, there are a lot of other guys who are getting pushed right now, who probably don't have the issues listed above. Pretty much end of story.

 

[Mustang Sally]

It's hard to understand what Ziggler feels he has to complain about. It seems to me that the biggest goal of any performer, in pro wrestling or other field of entertainment, is exposure to the public.....and no one has seen more TV time than Dolph Ziggler. For a couple years, he was on every single Raw and Smackdown, including high-profile events, which included winning MITB and participating in major & minor championship matches. If wrestlers are given a downside guarantee in salary and earn more by performing more, Dolph has it made.

So, what's his gripe? That he hasn't had a long run at one of the major titles? As with Daniel Bryan, I can't believe a performer would care about "winning" a championship in a scripted sport. It's nice that Dolph feels he'd stack up well against Randy Orton in a back alley fight.....and maybe he would.....but pro wrestling isn't structured that way and winning a title belt means nothing more than any other TV appearance.

If Dolph thinks he's been short-changed, I'd love to read about how some of the other guys who sit in the back and wait for a chance feel about Dolph's gripes.

 

[Softcore Holly]

I doubt that's why his push was stopped. The fans never really got behind him on his own as a heel or face. He's one of those dudes that needs a manager to be over, and they took his manager off of me, and he simply wasn't getting over. I could absolutely see the E cutting their losses and stopping the push because it wasn't really working anyways.

Basically, he can claim to work super hard until he's blue in the face, but if it isn't working, it isn't working. It happens that way sometimes.

Did you miss his cash in? His popularity was at a all time high, he was more over then most of the locker room. To say that the fans was never behind him is simply ridiculous. And it's hard to say they stopped the push when that push felt like it ended as soon as it started.

His push got stopped due to a combination of the concussion and backstage politics. Yes it was REALLY, really dumb for him to be saying that kind of crap in public, but the WWE should have dealt with it backstage like they did with the AJ-Beadle incident. Worst case Dolph would've somehow had a worse WHC title reign then ADR and they would've known once and for all whether or not he's worth pushing. Best they get another major star they can put in main events to help keep it fresh instead of the same tiny number of guys.

 

[Softcore Holly]

It's hard to understand what Ziggler feels he has to complain about. It seems to me that the biggest goal of any performer, in pro wrestling or other field of entertainment, is exposure to the public.....and no one has seen more TV time than Dolph Ziggler. For a couple years, he was on every single Raw and Smackdown, including high-profile events, which included winning MITB and participating in major & minor championship matches. If wrestlers are given a downside guarantee in salary and earn more by performing more, Dolph has it made.

So, what's his gripe? That he hasn't had a long run at one of the major titles? As with Daniel Bryan, I can't believe a performer would care about "winning" a championship in a scripted sport. It's nice that Dolph feels he'd stack up well against Randy Orton in a back alley fight.....and maybe he would.....but pro wrestling isn't structured that way and winning a title belt means nothing more than any other TV appearance.

If Dolph thinks he's been short-changed, I'd love to read about how some of the other guys who sit in the back and wait for a chance feel about Dolph's gripes.

Think of it as any other job. You come in, log in your hours, do your tasks, get paid, go home. Now that should be enough for everyone since the main goal is to get paid, right? But no, naturally people will want to move up the ladder so they can get more money, work less hours, get more perks, etc. And of course if they see people they think is less qualified than them go up that ladder before them they're not happy about it.

For the WWE main title reigns = more main events spots which in turn equals more money, both from the matches and more merchandise sales since your popularity's going to go up from being champ. That of course I'm sure there's plenty of ego involved, just like any other competitive job.

As for the other guys chances are they're thinking the same things he's saying(cept for the alley fight thing), they're just smart enough to keep their mouths shut about it.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Did you miss his cash in? His popularity was at a all time high, he was more over then most of the locker room.

I stopped reading here, right where you lost all of your credibility. He cashed in the night after Mania, the annual smark crowd. Of course they popped for him. Then afterwards, he never got a pop like that again. No one gives a shit about him because he's a shit worker who fails at getting the crowd emotionally invested in his matches and he's a mediocre public speaker.

Yeah, him running his mouth probably didn't help his cause. Which sucks because now all of his delusional fans will rest on that being the reason his push was halted rather than being objective and realizing that the dude just isn't very good.

 

[Aquaman6686]

I doubt that's why his push was stopped. The fans never really got behind him on his own as a heel or face. He's one of those dudes that needs a manager to be over, and they took his manager off of me, and he simply wasn't getting over. I could absolutely see the E cutting their losses and stopping the push because it wasn't really working anyways.

Basically, he can claim to work super hard until he's blue in the face, but if it isn't working, it isn't working. It happens that way sometimes.

Ziggler has been one of the most popular Superstars on the roster for years now. Ziggler was INSANELY over in early 2013 and him winning the title on RAW was THE biggest crowd reaction of the past ten years or more. Every time he came out he got an amazing reaction. The concussion he received derailed him, but why WWE stopped his push has always been up to debate. If those comments had something to do with it, it's too bad. Due to Vince's issues with him and the two concussions he's had, unfortunately Ziggler may go down in history as one of WWE's biggest missed opportunities. In my opinion Ziggler could have been THE next megastar in WWE, and they dropped the ball.

 

[ocekit]

This reminded me of some Ziggler quotes from a group interview in this month's WWE Magazine. It was him, Kofi, Miz, Cesaro, Barrett, and Swagger.

When asked about his weaknesses and how he handles constructive criticism:
"My greatest weakness is that I'm barely six-feet-tall. I'm serious. If you can find a weakness, then I would honestly love to hear it... If you've got a couple in mind, lay them on me and I'll refute them for you...My weakness is I'm too good for what I do."

"Barrett? He's tall, so he should be OK."

"Will I be in one of the high-ranking matches? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it right now."

Ziggler's had moments where it seemed like he almost broke through, but he hasn't been able to maintain any solid momentum and obviously hasn't instilled enough confidence in WWE officials to put him in a higher position. Injuries haven't helped either. Perhaps one day the stars will align and Ziggler will find himself in a place he's happy with. I won't hold my breath, though.

 

[closet_fan]

He cashed in the night after Mania

This right here. That's the only time I've ever heard a crowd react in any way to Ziggler, whether he was a heel or a face. The only other time was when they pulled a switch with him and ADR and even that was a pretty rare moment.

The next week after he cashed in, he barely got an audible from the crowd.

There are very few who care about Ziggler. I for one was never into him. He has forced charisma and never comes off naturally or organically with the crowd.

John Morrison 2.0

 

[BaconBits]

Ziggler has been one of the most popular Superstars on the roster for years now. Ziggler was INSANELY over in early 2013 and him winning the title on RAW was THE biggest crowd reaction of the past ten years or more. Every time he came out he got an amazing reaction. The concussion he received derailed him, but why WWE stopped his push has always been up to debate. If those comments had something to do with it, it's too bad. Due to Vince's issues with him and the two concussions he's had, unfortunately Ziggler may go down in history as one of WWE's biggest missed opportunities. In my opinion Ziggler could have been THE next megastar in WWE, and they dropped the ball.

No, no and no. You are delusional. Ziggler getting one good reaction from one smarky east coast crowd (the same crowd the popped huge for heel Fandango and heel ADR) does not insanely over make. He never got anywhere close to that kind of reaction anywhere else. He generally came out to the sounds of nothing.

Not to mention he manages to hurt himself like once a month because he's completely out of control. First day wrestling school students are safer than he is.

He is an overly dangerous charisma vaccuum who can't get over. That's why they stopped his push. Any other reason you try to make up is pure bullshit.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

This is not the sole reason, might be one of them but he has also had a lot of other issues in recent months.

1) His brother's poor reaction to his release - Brieley Pearce or whatever his name was decided to mouth off about the Bill DeMott "Naked Wrestling" scandal and basically bury DeMott. Zig is naturally going to stick up for his bro backstage, so that is a major black mark against him... Whether DeMott was wrong or not, if you're gonna be pushed you protect the company and encourage those around you to do so too.

2) The Max Landis movie... Normally if a WWE guy gets a movie role, it's announced by WWE. Ziggler showed up for a photoshoot with the cast of this movie months ago and Landis tweeted his involvment. Contractually there might not be anything to stop it, but it smelt like Ziggler didn't go through "proper channels" or may have been told he couldn't do it. Once he was announced by the director, it would look very bad on WWE if they pulled him from it. At minimum Vince likes his exec producer credit... if that's not on the table cos of how this deal was done, then Ziggler would suffer for it.

3) The Barrett situation - make no mistake, Ziggler was not supposed to get the push he did. He got it at the expense of Barrett, who he was directly involved in injuring. Many blame Show, but if you look at the footage it was Ziggler trying to twist so it looked like his head "hit the barrier"... by doing so it meant it was going to and would probably have killed him. Barrett had to adjust and basically "take the hit", he has never been the same worker since as his arm is clearly still weak. At the time they had no choice but to go with Zig as plan B, but once it fizzled and he was injured himself it was done for him... but he also cost them the guy they WANTED to be big in Barrett... something changed in him with that injury, maybe he lost confidence in his arms strength but he was supposed to be better than he is by now,.

4) Perhaps the most important - he is damaged goods in terms of his health. He has had a number of concussions in a short space of time, one is bad - two unfortunate and three... you get the picture. He is pretty much a risk to have in the ring at the moment as one more blow to the head could seriously screw him up. WWE may have issues insuring him going forward and as he shows no sign of toning his style of bumping down, it's bad enough he's injured one or two others but they may just have to cut their risk on him. Think back to that Chamber match the night before he hurt Barrett... he was taking STUPID bumps on the Chamber grates etc... they weren't doing much to improve the match but it showed he has a real lack of care for his own body... When they have safer guys on the roster and Ryback is also getting heat over his safety, this more than anything is likely why they have throttled back on his use.

Ultimately Ziggler is a bust in the Same way Warrior, Slaughter and Sid was as a champion. Useful member of the roster, occasional main eventer but their value with the belt and in the top job was severely less than expected. His name screams "phoney wrestler name" and his personality is pretty well summed up in those quotes... sure Orton is a scumbag as a man perhaps, but Ziggler is perhaps slightly worse in that he's basically pissing on his company "cos he's impatient? Get shot of him... far better options.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Ziggler getting one good reaction from one smarky east coast crowd (the same crowd the popped huge for heel Fandango and heel ADR) does not insanely over make

True. Remember, lots of folks that attend pro wrestling shows aren't really fans; others are somewhat......and many of them presume that if they see a guy included on every card, he must be a huge hit, which is exactly what Vince McMahon (the old star-maker) wants them to think.

No one has been the beneficiary of that kind of thinking more than Dolph Ziggler, which is another reason why it's hard to accept him complaining now.

 

[Aquaman6686]

No, no and no. You are delusional. Ziggler getting one good reaction from one smarky east coast crowd (the same crowd the popped huge for heel Fandango and heel ADR) does not insanely over make. He never got anywhere close to that kind of reaction anywhere else. He generally came out to the sounds of nothing.

Not to mention he manages to hurt himself like once a month because he's completely out of control. First day wrestling school students are safer than he is.

He is an overly dangerous charisma vaccuum who can't get over. That's why they stopped his push. Any other reason you try to make up is pure bullshit.

You're the delusional one. I'll give you the Fandango thing, but that's it. Del Rio was a face at the time. Ziggler got great reactions everywhere he went, and was one of the most over guys on the roster. And I love how Ryback botching a clothesline is somehow Ziggler's fault in your eyes. Ziggler is one of the top 3 or 4 guys WWE has is EVERY respect.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Ziggler sounds like a whiny frat boy and he acts like one too.

He is athletic as fuck and all but you can clearly see WHY he will never go over or even be close to being a draw. This new piece of information doesn't surprise me because while Ziggler is known for being a smart mouth, Orton is equally the hissy fit thrower and I can see him making the higher ups to put pressure on DZ after hearing these comments.

 

[justinept]

I stopped reading here, right where you lost all of your credibility. He cashed in the night after Mania, the annual smark crowd. Of course they popped for him. Then afterwards, he never got a pop like that again. No one gives a shit about him because he's a shit worker who fails at getting the crowd emotionally invested in his matches and he's a mediocre public speaker.

In fairness, the crowd in Chicago was really hot during his match with Alberto Del Rio at Payback in June. Maybe it was because Chicago crowds are snarky - maybe it was because people legitimately didn't like Del Rio. But regardless, that match got a ton of heat from the crowd.

I will say this, though. I've been a long-time detractor of Ziggler's "bumps." He needs to get his psychology down. He can't be taking the same bump for Daniel Bryan that he took for The Big Show. Furthermore, every time a smaller wrestler throws Ziggler across the ring, my first thought isn't "Wow, that small guy must be strong," or "Whoa, look at Ziggler sell that." My first thought is actually "This guy needs to hit the gym so he doesn't keep getting thrown around like a rag doll by that 170 pound guy."

 

[MCMG]

If this is the reason his pushed ended it is pretty ridiculous. From Ziggler and the WWE. The WWE for taking not and Ziggler for being a moron. He is just smaller than Cena and Punk. Moreover, Orton is simply better than him.

I'm a huge fan of Ziggler and I have no shame in admitting that. In the ring he has had some great matches - most notably on TV. When he gets the opportunity to work a longer match he has shone through. Matches with Orton, Punk, Bryan and Cena come to mind. There are also decent matches with guys like Kofi, Jericho, Edge. He can definitely put on a match of high quality.

On the mic he is good enough. I don't think he is anything special but I think he can get his point across. He seems to be naturally able to speak but I'm not sure if he can consistently cut high quality promos.

He definitely has the look, there is no issue there. He always gets a reaction - heel or face - and I think Ziggler can have a more prominent role. If, however, a superstar with top quality attributes said something stupid they wouldn't be punished. Ziggler is frustrated that he isn't getting pushed. His first concussion cost him and that is a real shame. I'm not sure where his future lies but making stupid comments about superstars are legitimately better than you is probably something to avoid.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Ziggler is one of the top 3 or 4 guys WWE has is EVERY respect.

Your argument was bad enough from the beginning, but this is just awful. His mic skills are pretty bad. Not terrible, but pretty damn bad. To even suggest that he could be near the top makes anyone lose all credibility. Part of it he can't even control. He sounds like he's still going through puberty.

Anyways, I doubt these comments had anything to do with it. To believe anything on dirt sheets anymore is just being an internet mark, like most Ziggler fans are anyways. The guy got a concussion at the worst possible time and WWE became overly cautious because of it. End of story. Anything else could've been worked through (well, besides the fact that he's just not that good at getting over). But to come off as unreliable is bad in all aspects of life, let alone business decisions.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Part of it he can't even control. He sounds like he's still going through puberty.

LOL, I'm glad someone else noticed this, because I thought it was just me. He also has this habit of yelling during his matches, and it just sounds shrill, not unlike Nicki Bella (or is it Brie...can't be bothered to remember which is which) during her matches.

Maybe that's just petty but it grates on me.

 

[Sweettre15]

Oh boy, where do I start first?:

- If this report is true then it's prove either one of two things:


1. WWE is extremely sensitive and knee jerks to anything that doesnt sound like ass kissing in interviews by the rising talent

or

2. Orton is back to being petty and political backstage like he allegedly was in 2009 when he got Mr. Kennedy fired for hurting his shoulder and got Kofi Kingston buried because of a botch because he convinced WWE Brass that Kofi "wasnt ready"....Again Allegedly

Hell it can be a combination of both for all I know but I dont think it's fair to assume that Ziggler was actually being a jerk or "whining" about anything. I mean when that report came out that antagonized Ziggler, PWInsider that followed up on it by saying that their scoop was misconstrued in the sense that it was more of a case of Ziggler being perceived as one that doesnt "fall in line".

http://pwinsider.com/article/81104/...-issues-goldusts-wwe-status-and-more.html?p=1

I saw online a report where PWInsider stated that Dolph Ziggler had heat for how he represented himself during media appearances for WWE. However, I can't find this anywhere on PWInsider. So what's up?

As far what I said about Ziggler, it was that whether it's fair or not, he has a reputation for carrying himself with attitude backstage and that has worked against him. There is also a feeling that he doesn't "fall in line" and even when he's making appearances for the media, he has a way to stating how he feels about his place in the card, although he does so in a way that plays into the company storylines.

Plus most people I've asked that has seen him in person and talked to him said he was a class act.

Not to mention, I've read several interviews where Ziggler would at times put himself on the spot for not living up to expectations or talking about how he wants to improve as a performer in every way and that's why he's taken Stand up etc etc so again....How can some perceive him as a crybaby?
Regardless of those more "Trivial" things, If there is anyone that it still over despite not really being focused on at the moment and being jobbed then it's definitely Dolph Ziggler. I dont see how some can deny that when he's ended up on the "Biggest Pop" lists for House shows and has gotten the audience behind him in most of his matches even when they are with guys like Fandango or Curtis Axel. So I dont see why people try to say noone is interested in him. At the end of the day, the audiences do have a mind of their own and can decide who they want to or dont want to cheer for. That's why Alberto Del Rio was never over in ANY of his title reigns, That's why Jack Swagger was never over, That's why audiences crap on matches by the Miz or matches that include Ryback these days. It's not because they are buying into some kind of marketing ploy.

So I figured I would address all of these things as I go along

 

[Mitch Henessey]

WWE separated Dolph from Vickie, and his momentum fizzled out. WWE separates Dolph from AJ, and his momentum fizzles out again. It's been proven time and time again Ziggler can't carry the load on his own.

And that reaction the night after Mania 29 is worthless in the grand scheme of things. You can't put any stock in a super smarky crowd that starts a "We are awesome!" chant. We're talking about a guy, who's been in feuds with Edge and John Cena. WWE paired him with one of their top heat magnets (Vickie), the hottest Diva on the roster (AJ ), and Ziggler couldn't sustain the momentum, because he's not that good.

Dolph Ziggler is a mid card guy at best. He is not main event material, but there's nothing wrong with that. You can expect every guy on the roster to be WWE WHC and main event numerous pay per views, including Wrestlemania. Everyone is not "The Guy" material, so you can't label someone a failure, or accuse WWE of dropping the ball, if said wrestler is not main eventing Wrestlemania, or winning numerous world titles every year.

As far as the interview goes, meh. I doubt it played a big part in any of Ziggler's pushes. Unfortunately, Ziggler fans will cling to this as another lame excuse for WWE burying Ziggler, fueling the asinine conspiracy theories about WWE screwing someone else over, because they're threatening Cena as the top guy. Because you know, Vince McMahon wants to intentionally sabotage his own company.

 

[Slbrey]

Dolph should be happy that he's consistently been in WWE as long as he has and worked with some of the biggest stars in the company because it's been proven that when he's out on his own it's a nightmare...he needs somebody to speak for him or else he's just gonna be some robotic loser who over sells moves.

 

[willross]

I like Ziggler. I think he is better than average at just about everything but his injury as World Champion KILLED him.

He wasn't getting Post-WM Raw like pops but he was over. Unfortunately he wasn't around long enough for the actual audience (not just us) to invest themselves in him enough that when he came back he would be still "their" guy (see Jericho, Batista, HHH, etc.)

Had Ziggler not gotten punted in the face by Swagger he would probably be in a significantly better position right now whether he has a big mouth or not.

Despite what is "reported" Vince has always liked the guys who have the balls to stand up and say they are good and demand the best (i.e Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Stone Cold, etc.)

Ziggler just doesn't seem destined to be a top guy. Everytime he gets close its either around WM time where he picked up momentum too late and isn't over enough to get a major spot, or the guy gets injured (not necessarily to his own fault).

He is a good hand and is proven to be a guy who can be pushed up and down the card at managements convenience and made a believable opponent for John Cena (if Ziggler wasn't good then Cena wouldn't have gone near him to give him the rub and we all know it).

He just needs some good luck it seems more than anything else.

 

[willross]

There is nothing wrong with being a Mid Card guy. If you aren't a mark and realize that every role needs to be filled for the greater good of the company and the financial well being of the roster than you should have no problem being a midcard guy.

Scott Hall was never World Champion. He always worked with the middle of the card guys.....AND ALWAYS LOST (in WCW especially) but he didn't care. He knew he was good, he was getting paid, and didn't need a piece of leather to know it. He wasn't a mark.

If Ziggler can't see that maybe he is just going to be in that Scott Hall, Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog role in the company, than he should quit cause the marks should be in the crowd and on the message boards....not in the ring.

 

[Sweettre15]

There is nothing wrong with being a Mid Card guy. If you aren't a mark and realize that every role needs to be filled for the greater good of the company and the financial well being of the roster than you should have no problem being a midcard guy.

Scott Hall was never World Champion. He always worked with the middle of the card guys.....AND ALWAYS LOST (in WCW especially) but he didn't care. He knew he was good, he was getting paid, and didn't need a piece of leather to know it. He wasn't a mark.

If Ziggler can't see that maybe he is just going to be in that Scott Hall, Mr. Perfect, British Bulldog role in the company, than he should quit cause the marks should be in the crowd and on the message boards....not in the ring.

At the same time though, It's good to have guys that are hungry and want to climb that WWE ladder instead of just settling and being happy to be on TV. If Ziggler is willing to do what he can to climb that ladder then I feel that his hunger should be supported instead of putting him or anyone else like him in a position to fight an uphill battle.

WWE likes to praise the Attitude Era for having a locker room "filled with hungry Sharks" whether or not it was promotional content or not they had Stone Cold say that for a reason in that promo interview for WWE13. Hilarious that Mcmahon "reportedly" frowns on the people that reportedly express that.