Religion, No Politics. Half the Things We Never Talk About.
- Thread starter The 1-2-3 Killam
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The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Thank you Batman. By the very definition of the word definition, it's the all-commencements of who you are that defines you. That's one of those fun phrases people like to pepper onto things - and I'm not saying you don't completely, and legitimately mean it - but I'm not sure it actually "means" anything.
This statement is generally a HUGE red flag to me. Feelings are fickle. It insinuates that comfort is priority, rather than thought or truth. Not that I'm accusing you of ignorance, or having a shallow faith, by any means. I don't mean that as a personal or spiritual attack, it's just a phrase that bothers me because it's been used a lot throughout history to justify a lot of really terrible things.
AndThat'sTheBottomLine
I am the
I agree I should of been more explanatory. The crusades were motivated by the need to 'educate' the Muslim heathens. I get what you mean here. To me it makes sense. From the ten commandments to Jesus's teachings. It's how we should treat each other and how we should live our lives. Obviously we don't go by the old testament because Jesus died for us so that we wouldn't have to do all the things they did back then. It's how I want to live my life.
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
It's how you want to live your life - admirable. The idea of Jesus are unparalleled in their application for a better life, and ultimately a better world. This is why, when churches seem to be promoting that message over their own greed and ultimate gain, I think they are a force for good in the world.
The 10 Commandments and Jesus' teachings make a lot of sense. But there's a lot that comes between those two points. You say that the church does not use the old testament, and it's a very common belief that because of Jesus' death and resurrection the "old law", as it were, passed away and was replaced with this new, better, updated, culturally relevant law. But the church certainly DOES use the OT. In fact, it's used to justify a hatred for anything they don't agree with. Homosexuality is considered a sin - a mortal sin by some. Why? Because it's in the Bible, of course! You're right, it's listed right there in Leviticus, surrounded by literally HUNDREDS of things Christian's did away with because they were out-dated and, more importantly, generations of science had yielded a better place to live, and ancient health codes meant to keep people alive were no longer necessary. If you're going to believe homosexuality is a sin worthy of keeping somebody from heaven - and in turn sending them to a place of eternal torment - you should probably start murdering woman who get married and aren't virgins. Stop eating certain foods, stop wearing clothing with different materials or similar weaves, and pretty much stop living your entire life as you know it.
I don't think a book, no matter how old or how sacred you consider it to be, should decide your moral code. And of course, I'm not talking about YOU specifically OP, I'm talking about a belief in Biblical infallibility in general. The problem with that is, the Bible doesn't actually define your code. The people who have translated it over the centuries do. Things have been changed. Counsels have taken books out, and put others in. The true meaning of ancient words have been debated. Greek words have been changed to other, more less scandalous terms to fit what the modern day church believes the Bible to look like (for more on that, if you're interested, do some research into the real meaning behind Jesus' healing of the Centurion's "servant". Really interesting stuff.)
I don't think people need to rely on a book, a body of people, priests, pastors or even a giant hierarchy of power to decide what is morally right or wrong. Everything is situational. Everyone should be able to think for themselves. Instead we have lemmings; people who don't know why they believe what they believe, but do so because the Church told them it was correct. And over the course of 2,000 years even the people preaching the message don't even know what the message means.
It's exhausting. It all feels like a giant game to me. More than that, it feels like a giant fucking waste of time. If God was real, and the spiritual, cosmic message of Christ is truth...than all the pageantry of the modern church is such a giant waste of time and resources. "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is upon you." Not, "hey, it's coming... go wait around and some day I'll take you all into the sky and we'll play golden checkers and Minecraft for all of eternity."
Anyways, I'm glad that it makes sense to you. It sounds ridiculous to me. Too much hypocrisy. The creation stories and descriptions of God match up perfectly with all the thousands of "pagan" gods we've thrown out over the millenia. He actually sounds more like we smashed together all of them into one "super god". The only variable is Christ, who even I'll admit is still the perfect representation of how to live a good, morally superior life. But Christ is God, according to the Church (and himself). And the God that he represents...erm..is...is nothing like...him...? Yeah. See how stupid this sounds?
Just curious, what are your reasons for believing?
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Coco, do you change your picture and quote every day? I can't keep track of you, man.
AndThat'sTheBottomLine
I am the
The thing about Christianity in general is it is all based on one thing: Faith. A lot of people, yourself included HGR no offense, don't have that faith that defines a true Christian. Even I don't have it as strong as my fiance does. I tend to be skeptical about some things and I sometimes argue the Bible because I don't see the logic in something. For instance, you mentioned homosexuality. I don't think it's mortal sin worthy of keeping someone out of heaven. Is it a sin? Yes the Bible says that. It also says those who practice sexual immorality( homosexuals) will not inherit the kingdom of God. If that's the case then my fiance and I are both damned because we have premarital sex and that is considered sexually immoral. I think as long as you believe in Christ and live by the 10 commandments then you'll be fine. I'll find out when I die whether I'm right or wrong. I'm not the kind of Christian that tells someone that they are going to hell for something. It tends to not get anything done lol. I see where you are coming from and while I may not agree with your opinion wholeheartedly, I will respect it.
A reasonable person would have a solid conclusion. No doubts.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
Santa isn't real? My perception of reality has been shattered
Ah, but only a Sith deals in absolutes.
At least we still have the tooth fairy and the easter bunny to save us.
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
And there it is right there... If you're not going to believe in the bits and pieces of the Bible that are inconvenient for you, than why follow any of it? Why buy-in to the salvation concept talked about by Jesus, if you don't buy-in to the "sexual immortality" part talked about by Jesus? That just doesn't make any sense... How can you be so passive about something that, by your very admission, might send you to an eternity in white-hot agony? Christianity isn't about "faith", it's about disguising guilt and scaring people into doing what you want. That's not "free will" either. Those are terms that have been thrown around for so many centuries the church thinks it has a cornerstone on them. Faith isn't a concept exclusive to religion.
I have faith in humanity. I have faith that there are enough people realizing their potential, and living life in a manor that can make this world a better place. Faith in each other, faith in ourselves...that's a hell of a lot more difficult than having faith in God. Believing in God is EASY. It's fun! We dress it up and make it like a game. We put pretty clothes on, go sing fun music, and eat food together. We go to rock shows, summer camps, and pretend that a magical prayer saves our lives forever. Modern Christianity is easy. Durkheim said it best, as he flipped the age-old saying on its head: "God was created in the image of man." We've created this tale of fantasy, adventure, science-fiction. We've turned religion into a reflection of our culture and our desires. "Faith" in God is an easy escape. If paradise awaits, it justifies our apathy and laziness on this planet. Our lack of impact and altogether unimportant lives don't seem as bad when none of it matters anyway.
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
A reasonable person would pose a conclusion. An arrogant person would say there is no way it is wrong.
AndThat'sTheBottomLine
I am the
I'm a passive person. It's not that I don't believe in all of it. I take the Bible as is. I may not like everything but I accept it. I don't think one particular sin is going to send you to hell. And it is about faith. If it's not about faith then how can we believe? We have faith in our beliefs just like you have faith in humanity. I have no faith in humanity. We've proven ourselves untrustworthy by nature. I don't judge people. I just don't trust them. I do agree that churches have a tendency to pick and choose what to believe in. I'm not doing that. I believe I am committing a sin by having premarital sex. I don't think I'm going to get thrown into hell for having sex with my future wife. I could be wrong and if i am then i am. I try not to stress it because I'm fairly certain of where I'll end up. At the end of the day it really is all about faith.
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. - Eph. 5:5
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Cor. 6: 9-11
I don't throw these at you to judge you or to guilt you. That would be silly, because I don't hold to the Bible in a way that would make my doing so anything but hypocritical. I even left the Old Testament out of the picture to give you a fighting chance! I list them, because you just said you take the Bible "as is". There is hope in the words of verse 11 from Paul's letter to the Corinthians. "And such were some of you. But you were washed" ... "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ..." There is judgement for the act, but hope for redemption. And I think it is that hope that a draws people to Christianity, and in turn the message of Christ. It's almost poetic in nature. But you seem to just deny portions that are, again, convenient for you, but at the same time take the Bible for face value?
So by your own standards, standards which you take from the Bible, you are guilty of sexual immorality. And you take the Bible "as is". So, by a mathematical property I don't know anything about (I think it's the transverse?), you "have no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." I'm not trying to scare you, I'm trying to show you how your own backwards code of moral conduct should SCARE THE FUCK OUT OF YOU! And yet, you're so apathetic about it...
Imagine that, the agnostic telling the Christian he's going to hell.
I'm not, of course. I just appreciate good irony. I'm not event trying to "convict" you, or whatever word Christians use for filling somebody with guilt these days. If I believed in hell, I'd probably feel like a big jerk. At most I'm condemning you to the same fate I believe everyone else on the planet faces too... Dirt.
It's a good thing for your soul there's the option of sanctification. But what does that entail for you? Can you just wait until you get married and say a little prayer like "yeah...sorry for having sex before now...we're all good right?" How does that work?
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Cor. 6: 9-11
I don't throw these at you to judge you or to guilt you. That would be silly, because I don't hold to the Bible in a way that would make my doing so anything but hypocritical. I even left the Old Testament out of the picture to give you a fighting chance! I list them, because you just said you take the Bible "as is". There is hope in the words of verse 11 from Paul's letter to the Corinthians. "And such were some of you. But you were washed" ... "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ..." There is judgement for the act, but hope for redemption. And I think it is that hope that a draws people to Christianity, and in turn the message of Christ. It's almost poetic in nature. But you seem to just deny portions that are, again, convenient for you, but at the same time take the Bible for face value?
So by your own standards, standards which you take from the Bible, you are guilty of sexual immorality. And you take the Bible "as is". So, by a mathematical property I don't know anything about (I think it's the transverse?), you "have no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." I'm not trying to scare you, I'm trying to show you how your own backwards code of moral conduct should SCARE THE FUCK OUT OF YOU! And yet, you're so apathetic about it...
Imagine that, the agnostic telling the Christian he's going to hell.
I'm not, of course. I just appreciate good irony. I'm not event trying to "convict" you, or whatever word Christians use for filling somebody with guilt these days. If I believed in hell, I'd probably feel like a big jerk. At most I'm condemning you to the same fate I believe everyone else on the planet faces too... Dirt. It's a good thing for your soul there's the option of sanctification. But what does that entail for you? Can you just wait until you get married and say a little prayer like "yeah...sorry for having sex before now...we're all good right?" How does that work?
The 1-2-3 Killam
Mid-Card Championship Winner
[YOUTUBE]HfBR8nV4e8Q[/YOUTUBE]
This is totally unrelated, but absolutely hilarious. I showed it to my kids when I was working as an intern youth pastor. Thought I was going to get in trouble for "blasphemy" or some shit, but my pastor loved it and showed it again in church on Sunday.
This is totally unrelated, but absolutely hilarious. I showed it to my kids when I was working as an intern youth pastor. Thought I was going to get in trouble for "blasphemy" or some shit, but my pastor loved it and showed it again in church on Sunday.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
It was given the Pope's blessing and ruled over numerous peoples making it 'holy' and an 'empire.' It calling itself 'Roman' was a little more spurious but at the time it did include Rome and the emperor in Constantinople gave Charlemagne permission to called himself Roman emperor in the west
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
Relevant
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
After seeing Tebow in the preseason last night, I don't know what to believe anymore.
Mike, what does it say in the bible about God's penchant for exhibition football?
Mike, what does it say in the bible about God's penchant for exhibition football?
Danger Burger
Thread Killer
As i Christian who read the bible, I noted two things:
1) God is alot like the terminator, bad guy in the first testament, comes back to do good in the second.
2) the multiple narrarator style of the new testament was years ahead of its time, but wildly missused.
Did you happen to note the fact it's a book written over 2000 years ago written by fallible human beings?
Time to move on. The Bible ran its course, but in today's enlightened society, all it does is serve as an albatross to Christianity.
