Raw's Rating Woes Continue

[Jack-Hammer]

Generally speaking, last night's debut of Monday Night Football decimated the competition. The early numbers are out and show that last night's game between the Raiders & Broncos scored an average of about 13 million viewers.

I'm not sure what the Nielsen Household Ratings are but Raw pulled an average of 3,885,500 viewers last night. Hour 1 drew 3.820 million with a slight increase in hour 2 to 3.891 million viewers. Hour 1 drew a 1.4 rating in the 18-49 demo and a 1.5 for hour 2. So Raw averaged roughly 3.9 million viewers last night and that's well below average for the show, which will probably equal a Nielsen Rating of below 3.0 for the second of the last three weeks. Raw's usual competition on cable also took a hit: both episodes of Pawn Stars did 4.523 & 4.604 million viewers respectively. There were two new episodes last night and new episodes of Pawn Stars generally average well over 6 million. Rizzoli & Isles and The Closer on TNT also took something of a hit, though not as much as Pawn Stars as their audience contains a stronger fan base of women. R & I took in 5.626 million and The Closer did 6.154 million. The only show that seemed to not lose viewers was American Pickers as it drew 3.8 million viewers last night, which is pretty much where it usually draws.

Not a particularly good night for Raw numberswise. The ratings for Raw has peaks and valleys throughout the year but do you think the low rating for last night is a sign of bad things ahead or just the general price of going head to head with Monday Night Footbal?

 

[InsomGTS]

Pretty good ratings considering the whole show was a trainwreck until the final segment. What was Vince smoking, putting Vickie and Bret Hart in matches.

 

[sTyLnK]

The show always pulls roughly the same amount of viewers no matter how bad the show is regardless. Why Vince cares about ratings then is beyond me. MNF doesn't count because that will always get insane ratings. As for Raw, people are going to watch no matter what, as I said.

 

[dtroppe]

The problem is obvious. No star power. Sure theres Cena and HHH but thats it. HHH was a top guy when the other top guys were SCSA, the Rock, Taker, Foley,Jericho, etc... He was never a major draw by himself. Cena is a decent draw but theres no other stars for him to work with anymore. Del Rio can be a major player if he has the right people to work with. CM Punk will probably never be a mainstream draw- lets face it. He doesnt have the look and it takes a special look mixed with many other factors to make a star.

 

[macho_boy]

i think this comes down to the fact that del rio is champ.. i said this would happen if he won the title.. nobody really knows who he is, and if you do know who he is, you wish you dint know who he was because he is incredibly boring, his wrestling, if you can call it wrestling is the worst i have seen in 10 years, his mic skills are zzzzzzzzzzzzz boring!! if wwe want ratings to go up they no what to do!! and it involves getting rid of del rio so he can go tna so there ratings can drop

 

[MaxPlastic]

I'd say the numbers were pretty good, then, considering MNF... RAW won't ever draw like it used to until they try something different like compelling, relevant real-world story lines... But hey, the world as changed and they might not even draw those numbers again then. I don't think WWE need to try to recapture or bring back the Attitude Era like so many other people suggest, but maybe they should try to capture the star power, relevance, and electricity that the programming produced in that period. I also just thought; Maybe they're spreading themselves too thin? Maybe they should scale it back and tour in their major markets to get that hype back up. Like, don't go back to Toledo, but instead go somewhere that they draw very well in. I also think cutting the PPVs back would help. Sorry, I'm just a-ramblin'

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Well, why would anyone get into the show? It isn't about Cena; the guy holding the belt is a flop; and the real meat and potatoes of the show is stuff that only immature lil brats that would go "OH!!! Punk owned him!" cares about.

I want to blame the football games (Brady [] was making Fantasy Football lovers swoon and when Broncos play MNF there is nothing else going on), but this has been the trend for a while. If you are one of those channel switchers, which would you pick: A good football game or Del Rio sounding nervous and mad in the opening segment?


Star power is one thing, but there is helluva difference between that and a shit show. Raw just happens to be shitty right now.

 

[Smart Fan]

While Vince and WWE might try to cite MNF as the reason for ratings dropping, the truth is ratings have been dropping since mid summer. No one cares about the Cena vs Del Rio program, and ratings and the MITB buyrate prove that CM Punk's "pipe bombs" do little more than fizzle. Before anyone goes crazy, that's not a knock on Punk, he's a good wrestler, but he just doesn't draw. I expect the ratings to continue to stay around 2.7-3.0 until around November when The Rock returns to stir things up with John Cena again. Mick Foley has also been hinting at a WWE return so he might also bring back some nostalgia fans and give the ratings a little bump.

 

[Mustang Sally]

RAW won't ever draw like it used to until they try something different like compelling, relevant real-world story lines.

Maybe they won't; who really knows? As for real world story lines, we've just come through one with the C.M. Punk "project." It was as realistic as the "fake" world of pro wrestling has ever gotten and, in fact, we're still not sure how Punk's program was derived.....and how reality-driven it actually was.

It could be, though, that there's just too much pro wrestling on TV, and the product is so over-exposed it won't be getting great ratings again.

On the other hand, people have bet against Vince McMahon before, yet he's always managed to come up with ways to bring things back. If he ever truly retires, I wouldn't be surprised to see fresh ideas from Mr. and Mrs. Levesque that might do the job.

As for this past Monday's rating?..... Hell, it was the first MNF of the season; and a double-header, no less. Despite someone saying earlier in this topic that RAW fans will watch no matter what, I don't find that to be true. Much of the demographic that enjoys wrestling are the same folks who like football. An institution like MNF is going to take people away from WWE, like it or not.

Maybe we should change it all to a Tuesday Night RAW?

 

[Constipated Badger Bottom]

I think you need to look back at last week's show and how it failed to create intrest in this weeks show I mean last week we had

Triple H firing Nash but 90% of us have probably come to the conclusion that he will make some sort of apperance at Night Of Champions
Air Boom beating Khali/Mahal
Beth Phoniex become No1 Contender for Diva's Title
Stip added to HHH vs Punk match at NOC
Lawler/Ryder beating Cutty/Otunga
Orton beating Heath Slater
Elimination tag match
Cena giving the AA to Del Rio

You look at those results and if you didn't know any better you would think it was the Raw before NOC when in fact they still had one more Raw to go before then so they need to give people reason to watch next week's raw along with hyping Night of Champions

 

[JaylisJayP]

RAW was so bad, seriously just a complete letdown...the last segment was decent because Punk is a savior on the mic lately. I wouldn't be surprised if the PPV buy-rate suffers because of how horrible the show was.

They need to realize the days of throwing a storyline out there and then just coasting through it from PPV to PPV are over. If you don't wow us EVERY week, they'll continue to see ratings drop.

Can't imagine what'll happen when people start to find Punk stale...they seriously just have no compelling characters. They seem to go out of their way to turn Randy Orton into a complete drone. He's worthless now. Watching del Rio is almost pitiful because the guy is the champ and nobody could care less about him or Cena. I actually watched RAW live, but if I had DVR'd it like usual, I easily would've just fast forwarded through the opening segment, it was awful.

 

[Daniel]

A couple of things to start with. Firstly, American Football has to be the most ridiculous sport ever. I tried to understand it, but I just can't. It doesn't need to be as complicated as it is. Secondly, Pawn Stars is a funny name for such a mundane show.

OK, on to Raw. When it comes to wrestling, I don't believe that there is a direct relationship between the ratings of a show and the perceived quality of that show in particular. When it comes to wrestling, it's the star power that wins viewers and fans. Alberto del Rio ain't no Rock. I love CM Punk, but he ain't no Austin. And I know I just used two double negatives and grammatical errors in a row, but I just love saying "ain't no".

WWE doesn't have the names it once had. It doesn't have the recognition it once had. Hell, the same can be said for wrestling in general. I refuse to accept the Monday Night Football argument. This is because Raw's ratings have been shit for quite some time. Back when Raw was pulling 6.0 and upwards, the effect of this football malarkey wasn't even noticeable. People tuned in regardless of what other stuff was on TV. I look at the most recent ratings as yet another indicator of wrestling's decline in public conciousness. Something needs to change, and something needs to change fast.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Football always screws around with wrestling's ratings but part of it too is that fans are tired of dumb things and wwe does a lot of dumb things to keep the kiddies happy. If you read about the post-Raw title match, the match was thrown out due to interference - a triple threat match. Maybe I am getting old but aren't those matches usually no dq? Granted it was after the show ended so it didn't impact the ratings but they do dumb stuff like that during the show that does. Why is Bret Hart in the ring? I am a huge Bret fan but we all know he can't wrestle like he used to so why put him in matches anymore? dumb ideas = lower ratings.

 

[ns530]

Wrestling isn't written the way it once was. The storylines are done and redone.
Simply put, less is more and they need to have less PPV and less weekly episodic shows because it highlights the flaws. They don't build to the ppv because they're chasing the quick and easy buck.

The solution will take time; but will start with scaling back on all of the programming.
This is the equivalent of a baseball team bringing up a ton of rookies and not having enough veteran leadership....You know what happens? That team's gonna lose....a LOT before it gets better.

WWE is that team, regardless who the manager is (HHH)

 

[XXJJ]

The NFL is a machine, Raw wont be able to compete with them. The hope is MNF have some bad games and blowouts. Maybe then some viewers would turn the channel to Raw.

One thing I have noticed is all this CM Punk stuff has not generated ratings for them. The ratings have been going down almost each week, since his shoot promo.

 

[Jackal960]

Simply put:

I don't think Monday Night Football has ever been played on Tuesdays, or Monday Night Raw has ever aired on Fridays.

If you know what I mean...

The fact is, regardless if there is Monday Night Football, Monday Night Baseball, Monday Night Olympics or Monday Night Astronaut Going to Mars; Monday Night Raw will draw and draw well if it is a good episode. I am not saying its the worst show ever at the moment, but it definitely has room for improvement. Raw shouldn't be afraid of Football, Baseball or whichever sport, actually the networks SHOULD be scared because Monday Night Raw is airing at the same time with them. If you have been watching Raw for the past few years only, you would say "what is this guy talking about?" but if you have been watching it long enough you would know what I mean. Not only the show is getting worse in time, but the ratings, buyrates and attendances declining as well. I always give an example and will continue to give the same example. How many guys were around you 10 years ago who would have a chat about wrestling? How many guys are there now? I can write many reasons why it became like this and what my suggestions would be. Everyone else would have some other reasons and suggestions for themselves. The fact is, it isn't going good now, and things need to start to change. Keeping your head in the ground won't help.

 

[JeffTheRef]

It's lame.

Character and stories have ZERO depth. There are almost no exciting and original gimmicks. And they are relying WAY too much on CM Punk's microphone skills. Yes he's good...but that doesn't mean that I want to watch him and Triple H argue about having to "win over the fans" for a half hour straight. Given a choice between that and some quality football, my choice is easy.

I love wrestling and I love Monday night football. The WWE needs to make me feel like I can't get away with primarily watching football and just "checking in" to see what's happening on Raw. They need to make it "can't miss" programming. Nothing about this week's raw was "can't miss".

 

[ns530]

the sad reality is this is the state of wrestling and has been for the past decade. It won't change and maybe that is for the best. Maybe WWE needs to suffer before they tear it down and try to build it back up. I've been a fan for the last 25 years. The last decade has been about making money, not about making a good product. The truth is in the numbers.

 

[amazing_blue]

Wow, there is so much negativity in this thread that it's unbelievable. Why Vince or anyone else cares about lackluster ratings in 2011 is beyond me. They are far from accurate.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not only the show is getting worse in time, but the ratings, buyrates and attendances declining as well.

You do realize this is completely false and/or misleading right? Buyrates may not be as high, but PPV revenue is every bit as high as it's been over the last 6-8 years. The company is making more in profits than it has since the Attitude Era. There are far more television stations now than there were in the Attitude Era. Live attendance revenue is as good as it's ever been.

Everything I just stated are facts, and can be found by searching the WWE's public filings.

So, basically, you are pretty much wrong and/or misleading on everything you just said.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

Well WWE needs to realize football is far bigger than they are right now, they also need to realize they have a lackluster product, back in the "attitude" era, they still managed to draw well during the season, unfortunately Vince and his yes men are so deep inside their little bubbles they can't see how mediocre the product is.

I mean did the first 90 minutes of RAW last night accomplish ANYTHING? did it make you want to buy the PPV? HHH/Punk IS the entire PPV.

 

[Jackal960]

You do realize this is completely false and/or misleading right? Buyrates may not be as high, but PPV revenue is every bit as high as it's been over the last 6-8 years. The company is making more in profits than it has since the Attitude Era. There are far more television stations now than there were in the Attitude Era. Live attendance revenue is as good as it's ever been.

Everything I just stated are facts, and can be found by searching the WWE's public filings.

So, basically, you are pretty much wrong and/or misleading on everything you just said.

My concern is not about the profits, but number of people who are regularly following WWE. Actually you agreed that the numbers are down but not the profits, which can be true. But when i think of buyrates/ratings/attendance I think of numbers, not how much profit it corresponds to. After all, a botlle of water might have been 20 cents 10 years ago and 2 dollars now. Just looking at the profit figures can be misleading.

These are the figures that I found in the first 5 minutes about buyrates, God knows what will come up in 15 minutes...

Here is a rundown of the WWE PPV buyrate information for 2009:

- Royal Rumble did 450,000 buys (down 83,000 from 2008 numbers)
- No Way Out did 272,000 (down 57,000)
- WrestleMania 25 did 960,000 (down 98,000)
- Backlash did 182,000 (down 70,000)
- Judgment Day did 228,000 (down 24,000)
- Extreme Rules did 213,000 buys (up 19,000 from 2008 numbers)
- The Bash did 178,000 (down 18,000)
- Night of Champions did 267,000 (down 6,000)
- SummerSlam did 369,000 (down 108,000)
- Breaking Point did 169,000 (down 42,000)

WWE Pay-Per-View Buyrates Down 23% In Fourth Quarter & More

Even more financial data is coming in from WWE's Fourth Quarter 2010 financial results and the numbers for WWE's pay-per-view buyrates are not pretty.

Pay-per-view buyrates for Q4 2010 were down a staggering 23% from the previous year.

Pay-per-view revenue was $13.8 million, down from $16.3 million in 2009.

Here is a breakdown of the buyrates by event:

- October's Hell in a Cell did 210,000 buys, down from the 283,000 buys in 2009.

- October's Bragging Rights did 137,000 buys, down from 181,000 buys in 2009.

- November's Survivor Series did 244,000 buys, up from 235,000 buys im 2009.

- December's TLC did 195,000 buys, down from 228,000 buys in 2009.

And last time I checked 2011 didn't have huge jumps from those numbers. I also have been checking from a thread, actually a one you opened, regarding ratings which gives a lot of information (thank you) and it shows that ratings have been going down as well. I mean if you put them into an XY graph it is going down, not up.

Why would I mislead people anyway? Am I wrong with WWE being a better product 5 years ago, and even better 10 years ago, regardless what era it belongs to? I am not saying only my opinion, because numbers prove it as well. As I said my concern is not about the profits, but number of people who are regularly following WWE

 

[GameOver]

are you still watching? if yes then obviously there's still something there that keeps you watching regardless of whether you like the product as a whole or not, why would ya care otherwise?

and just cause people don't follow that gets counted in the "ratings" or PPV buyrates there are other avenues for watching stuff you know. There's this little thing called the internet where you can download anything and almost everything For Free.... and PPV's are available to buy for in some cases cheaper then it costs to get the live PPV on PayTV

Obviously the product seems weaker, the talent is weaker, the economy is shot, people would rather spend there money on things like food, bills.. Ya don't think WWE suffers from monetry peaks and troughs like any other business?

and alot of bad mistakes have been made as far as creative directions and Vince McMahon thinking he still has his finger on the pulse when that shipped sailed years ago.

True that there seems to be alot of oh well we give up the past 6 yrs, and let's just lump everything into Super Cena and stuff the rest. But i do think there is still truth to the fact that the stars are alot to blame, kids can be spoilt brats and expect everything handed to them (like HHH said) instead of going out and taking it and forcing people to stand up and notice you like Cena did even if it's negative atleast it's a reaction. and actually learning how to talk on the mic instead of forcing your boss to write out everything cause they know you'll just screw it up

 

[Slyfox696]

My concern is not about the profits, but number of people who are regularly following WWE. Actually you agreed that the numbers are down but not the profits, which can be true. But when i think of buyrates/ratings/attendance I think of numbers, not how much profit it corresponds to. After all, a botlle of water might have been 20 cents 10 years ago and 2 dollars now. Just looking at the profit figures can be misleading.

No, what's misleading is the idea that numbers equal success. You say you're not concerned with profits, the problem with that is the WWE IS concerned with profits. When they set the prices on their goods and products, they do it according to what will make them the most amount of money, not what will attract the most number of people.

So when you post all these buyrates you are about to post, it means absolutely nothing. If the WWE lowered their PPV price from $45 to $20, I bet they could increase PPV buys by nearly a 1/3rd, if not more. But what good is that, if it costs you money? If you were a juggler, and charged admission to your show, would you charge 7 people $2, or 5 people $5?

These are the figures that I found in the first 5 minutes about buyrates, God knows what will come up in 15 minutes...

Here is a rundown of the WWE PPV buyrate information for 2009:

- Royal Rumble did 450,000 buys (down 83,000 from 2008 numbers)
- No Way Out did 272,000 (down 57,000)
- WrestleMania 25 did 960,000 (down 98,000)
- Backlash did 182,000 (down 70,000)
- Judgment Day did 228,000 (down 24,000)
- Extreme Rules did 213,000 buys (up 19,000 from 2008 numbers)
- The Bash did 178,000 (down 18,000)
- Night of Champions did 267,000 (down 6,000)
- SummerSlam did 369,000 (down 108,000)
- Breaking Point did 169,000 (down 42,000)

WWE Pay-Per-View Buyrates Down 23% In Fourth Quarter & More

Even more financial data is coming in from WWE's Fourth Quarter 2010 financial results and the numbers for WWE's pay-per-view buyrates are not pretty.

Pay-per-view buyrates for Q4 2010 were down a staggering 23% from the previous year.

Pay-per-view revenue was $13.8 million, down from $16.3 million in 2009.

Here is a breakdown of the buyrates by event:

- October's Hell in a Cell did 210,000 buys, down from the 283,000 buys in 2009.

- October's Bragging Rights did 137,000 buys, down from 181,000 buys in 2009.

- November's Survivor Series did 244,000 buys, up from 235,000 buys im 2009.

- December's TLC did 195,000 buys, down from 228,000 buys in 2009.

That's great, it took you 5 minutes to find it? Here, I'll help you shorten that time:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=145691

There, now you can have access to all sorts of wrestling information, and it's never more than a few mouse clicks away. Of course, since buyrates have absolutely nothing to do with revenue, I'm not really sure what your point is.

And last time I checked 2011 didn't have huge jumps from those numbers. I also have been checking from a thread, actually a one you opened, regarding ratings which gives a lot of information (thank you) and it shows that ratings have been going down as well. I mean if you put them into an XY graph it is going down, not up.

Ahh, so you did find the thread. Great. Do me a favor and look at the WWE's revenue, and tell me what you find. If you would like, I can upload a new batch of files to include WWE's profits, which are the greatest they've been since the Attitude Era. Just let me know.

Ratings are such an imperfect measure of success for a wrestling company, unless you understand all the other factors that go into them. If this was 1999, Monday Night Raw would probably be pulling a 4.5 rating right now, maybe higher. Go back and look at Saturday Night's Main Event ratings, and you'll see some 10.x ratings. You really think that many more people watch SNME? Of course not, just a higher percentage that had their television on at that time did. Of course, when there's only 30 channels (if that many), you're much more likely to get a better rating.

Ratings have been fairly consistent since 2002. Average yearly ratings from 2002 until June of 2007 were between the 3.7 and 4.0 mark. Average yearly ratings from June 2007 until 2010 (2011 isn't finished yet) have been roughly a 3.3. June 2007, of course, is when Chris Benoit made national news.

Go ahead and look, use the spreadsheet of information I provided. I include average ratings at the bottom. You'll see that I'm right.

Why would I mislead people anyway?

I have no idea, but I do know that you were trying to make a point by using misleading and/or false information.

Am I wrong with WWE being a better product 5 years ago, and even better 10 years ago, regardless what era it belongs to?

If you look at financial records, the answer is yes. If you look at live attendance is probably. "Better" is a relative term, which can only be measured by how the company meets its goals, and the WWE's goals are to make the most money possible. And in a time when the economy has been slumping for years, unemployment in the US is between 9 and 10%, when the poverty level in the country is at 15% (according to another thread on here), and when the disparity of wealth between the rich and poor is as great as it's ever been, the fact the WWE pulled the greatest profit since the Attitude Era would suggest that, no, the WWE wasn't a better product 5 years ago. And considering 2001 and 2002 (ten years ago) were the years the WWE went from the 5.6 TV rating they did in Januray of '01 to the 3.3 they did at the end of '02, I would argue that, no, ten years ago probably wasn't much better than they are today.

I am not saying only my opinion, because numbers prove it as well. As I said my concern is not about the profits, but number of people who are regularly following WWE

And again, I wish to point out how narrow of a view that is, because number of people is not what the WWE strives to maximize. They try to maximize revenue, or more accurately profit, not number of people. So with fairly constant ratings, fairly constant PPV revenue, and increasing company revenue and profit, there's really no way you can say the WWE is doing poorly.

 

[Why Always Me]

You do realize this is completely false and/or misleading right? Buyrates may not be as high, but PPV revenue is every bit as high as it's been over the last 6-8 years. The company is making more in profits than it has since the Attitude Era. There are far more television stations now than there were in the Attitude Era. Live attendance revenue is as good as it's ever been.

Everything I just stated are facts, and can be found by searching the WWE's public filings.

So, basically, you are pretty much wrong and/or misleading on everything you just said.

Quick question, how can live attendance revenue be as good as it's ever been when for the most part shows aren't sold out now? In the Attitude Era for example pretty much every Raw, Smackdown and PPV was sold out. Now most weeks half the upper tier is covered in black to try and hide the fact that the seats haven't been sold.

There was a picture last week on the main WrestleZone site from the Smackdown/Nxt taping that showed pretty much half the arena tarped off, not just the upper tier either.

Cheers