Praises to Kevin Kelly!

[klunderbunker]

How are fans not gonna know Jeff Hardy is a multi-time World Champion if the commentators boast it all the time? I realize it happened in WWE, but what do you expect? Get a big name from a larger organization and expect him to look inferior to your own talent knowing full well that would be a negative move?

That's just it: they shouldn't. "Hey this guy used to be awesome in another company and so did this guy and this guy in this guy." Well if that company was so awesome and has so many awesome people in it but these guys here aren't awesome enough to stay there, how awesome are the guys staying there? TNA needs to be TNA, not the company where WWE guys go. In other words, don't talk about WWE.

How do you expect a fan do discover TNA without knowing of WWE's existence?

Channel 41: CNBC. The economy sucks. We know.
Channel 42: BET. I hate rap.
Channel 43: MTV. Oh look they're showing music. How boring.
Channel 44: Spike. Holy shit why is a guy in a mask holding a board full of nails in it? That's freaky looking!

Like that.

He's a big name and commentators make his credentials clear.

That makes sense. Why show what he can do when we can talk about what he did before?

TNA has to acknowledge Jeff's history in WWE because it is a larger company

No, they don't.

They can't hide it.

Jeff was also the OMEGA Champion. I didn't learn that from TNA. Why didn't I learn that from TNA? They never said it. It's really not that hard to not talk about it.

Tell that to ECW, WCW and ROH. You can't expect a wrestling promotion to acquire a big time name that was in a larger company and totally pass up on milking it for their own benefit

Milking it is one thing. The cow is currently begging for a break from now raw the udders are from TNA suckling on it.

It would be like if Sting finally debuted in WWE and WWE just made him look like new talent instead of the legend we know he is.

You mean like CM Punk, the indy superstar that debuted in WWE almost five years ago and has never once had his indy career talked about and yet is a three time world champion?

Really? So we should just watch with no clues as to who's in the ring and why?

Yeah you're right. I mean it's not like we can figure out what's going on or who is good or their style by say, watching them wrestle. Such a crazy idea.

I doubt it. All I needed to know was that he was a World Champion that hasn't had the title in TNA.

See that's the thing: Why does him being a former champion have ANYTHING to do with what he did? If Anderson had been the one that turned it would have been the same: he wanted to finally win the title. By saying he's won it before it adds nothing but takes away from this being what he FINALLY needs to do to get the title.

Think of it this way: Jeff is a three time former champion, meaning he was good enough to win before but needed help now. In other words he's not as good as he used to be. If this is his first win, it means he wasn't good enough before but now he is. What sounds better: Come see a guy that is better than ever, or come see a guy that isn't quite what he used to be?

Promo packages help.

Not when you have so much stuff going on during a show that you don't have room for more than three minute matches.

But they know of TNA? Come on, KB. I realize what you're saying, but do you really expect a first time wrestling fan to be hooked with TNA before learning of WWE?

Absolutely possible. New fans, people that love wrestling but hate WWE, people that started watching WWE after Hardy left, people that were casual viewers etc.

Comparing it to the Taker/Kane feud. WWE's audience is now composed mostly of kids. That means the chances of them knowing who Paul Bearer is are very slim.

According to my reviews, since Summerslam the feud has been recapped with a video explaining things 7 times, including an explanation of who he is. Striker has said who Bearer is, that he's Kane's father, that he's not Taker's father, and that Taker allegedly burned down Kane's home as a child on multiple occasions. The stories have been WELL explained more than once to any age of fans watching.

We never ha a damned clue why Steve Austin turned in WM 17

JR to close out Mania:

Stone Cold has sold his soul to the devil himself to win the WWF Title!

Austin from the next night on Raw:

I went to Vince McMahon as a form of an insurance to make sure I got what I wanted and Vince McMahon will continue to be in my corner from now on.

Twice in 24 hours after the end of the show including once on the show.

Why did Austin do it? There was no real explanation other than to secure the title. Same thing falls here.

Not to mention the package that aired before the match where Austin said

I need to beat you Rock. I need more than anything that you can ever imagine.

Austin would do anything to win the title because he felt he had to win. He asked Vince to help him because he felt he couldn't do it himself, which you could figure out easily based on what either Austin or Ross said that night. FAR different.

If you'd like a better example, the formation of the NWO. That night Hogan gave the famous interview explaining why he did what he did. If you wanted to know who the third man was and why he did what he did, you had to order the show. In this case you can find out who THEY were and why they did it for free on Impact. Zero need to order the show because you get nothing special there other than a shock.

"I wanted the title so badly that I sided with the bad guys"? Doesn't sound complicated at all.

It also sounds nothing like the explanation you gave.

I think a casual fan might make sense out of it faster than us. "That jerk was so desperate to win that he cheated". In essence, that's all you really need to know.

And there is no way that's all TNA will give us because TNA will overcomplicate things, as they already have by having Hogan be the star of the segment rather than Hardy.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The moral of the story:

Just because fans don't expect it, doesn't mean you do it. I mean, what if George Costanza shot Seinfeld and then himself in the series finale of Seinfeld? Sure it's shocking and no one would expect it...but it makes no damn since in doing that.

Same can be said for what TNA's tried with Hardy being heel. Kelley hit the nail on the head. And TNA's slowly but surely going toward the light. And not in a good way.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

well you know i was one of the first guys to successfully predict jeff's heel turn and my prediction was just based on one thing:vince russo likes to throw surprises just for the heck of it.

basically i agree with KB.jeff has done nothing in tna.his turn is entirely based on his wwe career.its actually promoting wwe in a few ways.you know like he was the superstar and 3 time champ in the "other company" and so its pretty shocking to turn on his fans.basically if you are a fan of hardy chances are that you have watched wwe quite a lot.

and i do have doubts whether hardy will be able to carry this role.what has been hardy's selling card??? that he goes headfirst through a table. yeah thats what hardy is all about. he cuts some of the mosst incoherent promos ever. in the ring he wrestles like some midcard spot monkey aand it takes someone like angle to make him look like a main eventer.

but i do thing this angle could work due to hulk hogan.i do think he has the charisma and the star power to carry off his evil authority figure type role. plus it could really make some guys' career if he ends up breaking this stable which i think will happen this time as compared to nwo because hogan isnt the guy holding the strap this time round

the sequence of events thus far may have been a bit boggling but its the execution of this angle from here on that matters

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

You mean like CM Punk, the indy superstar that debuted in WWE almost five years ago and has never once had his indy career talked about and yet is a three time world champion?

just wanted to add one more example.stone cold steve austin.at the time austin debuted in wwf,wcw was the major company.austin had been a pretty accomplished wrestler there.he had won all the midcard titles as well as the tag team titles.but wwe did not acknowledge his work in wcw.they gave him a new character in the ringmaster and from then on he metamorphosed into what we know him as today

so the thing is thats the way wwe does business.sure sometimes it does not work out.a good example there is raven whose character they completely changed from ecw to wwf.but the fact remains:even if sting debuted in the wwe tomorrow they'd try to give him a new character without acknowledging his past

also one of the reasonss wwe is on top

 

[Kcirdor]

let me just quote a post from another thread... to end the "it is not logical."

Hardy couldn't beat RVD... so he joined the "they" so that "they" could control the world title along with the company... explains why RVD was stripped of the belt... and why oh why would Hardy turn heel... he wanted the belt. PERIOD.. He may add some "character" or should I say more reasoning to why he turned on Impact, but the logistics of the whole angle make perfect sense.

its perfectly logical to those that have been watching TNA this year. How can KK and any of you be so up in arms without seeing the BIG picture. Or without even hearing from the Man himself.

(I wrote this in a different thread yesterday so I thought I'd repost it here. This whole thing is in kayfabe.)

1. When Hogan and Bischoff officially came in, Jarrett knew how good they were at fooling people and acquiring power, so he saw a chance to cut a deal and get some of his power in TNA back secretly by usurping Dixie Carter. Hogan and Bischoff agree but would need two things: Dixie to be dependent on them for their power since she's not an idiot, and the TNA World Heavyweight Title

2. Sting, knowing what would happen to TNA from the first day, got pissed off and started warning people forcefully. Jarrett was the first one to tell him to shut up. Everyone ignored Sting as if he were a bitter old man. RVD uses Sting as a stepping stone in at the behest of Hogan.

3. Hogan lured in Abyss knowing he needed dumb, easily influenced muscle. Abyss loved Hogan and would do anything to help him. Hogan told him to turn complete psycho to start intimidating everyone, which would keep others from digging deeper. Hogan even took several beatings to generate sympathy and lead people off the trail.

4. A.J. Styles has Flair to help him keep the belt but Rob Van Dam is able to win it. They are quite happy that their guy has the belt and give RVD mad props and befriend him. Problem is RVD isn't fully on board with them, preferably to hang with his ECW buddies and not be a lackey to Hogan and Bischoff. Worried he's going to be a problem, Hogan sends Abyss after him to get the belt back but it doesn't work. RVD is too good.

5. Kevin Nash is getting the silent treatment from Bischoff, which clues him in that something is going on. He and Sting agree that Hogan and Bischoff are once again up to something. Jarrett now fight them both and gets Samoa Joe (after some time) to help him, under the guise that Sting and Nash are just bitter old men.

6. RVD is getting too good and continues to not play ball, so Bischoff needs to get the belt off of him. Problem is he can't give the belt to Kurt Angle or Ken Anderson. They both are very strong willed and not willing to take a back seat to be led by him and Hogan. Jeff Hardy, however, is young, wants to be World Champion again and easily influenced. (Pun intended) He books a four-way with Abyss hoping the extra bodies would weaken RVD enough to lose to Hardy or Abyss (odds were in their favor). It doesn't work.

7. RVD continues to win so Bischoff tells Abyss to use Janice on RVD (EV2 would have helped RVD if they weren't busy being beat up by Fourtune, so Bischoff took advantage). Cut him up good and violently. Bischoff uses this to strip RVD of the belt, even though the wounds were healable in enough time for him to defend it. (Making him defend it while wounded would clue Dixie in that something was up)

8. Bischoff creates the tournament and rigs it so that Hardy has an easy path. He doesn't expect Angle can actually beat a younger Hardy, and Hardy can beat Anderson (whose new personality makes him less apt to cheat, plus he's been easy on Hardy in matches since they became friends) or The Pope (who never could win the big one). He noticeably leaves out Sting (obviously), Styles (who could beat Hardy) and Abyss (who he needs to keep people scared).

9. After No Surrender, Bischoff doesn't want Angle and Hardy to fight again, fearing he underestimated Kurt. He makes the 3-way dance, but Dixie steps him and gives them the rematch. Bischoff panics but Jeff assures him he won't lose. As soon as the double pin happens Bischoff runs out and makes the 3-way dance official.

10. The Pope figures out what Bischoff is doing (gearing it so that both Hardy and Angle are in rather than a rematch leading to a one-on-one match) and speaks out. Plus, his encounters with Miss Tessmacher have led to hearing some of the secrets being thrown around. This aligns him with Sting and Nash and opposes him to Jarrett, who dismisses him as another bitter wrestler not given something.

11. Angle and Anderson banter while Hardy stays silent. He knows he has the advantage and decides not to wrestle much. He will stay in the shadows and conserve his strength for the big night and not attract attention.

12. RVD comes back too soon, so it's up to Abyss to keep him away. RVD may know something and can throw a monkey wrench in plans. Hardy decides to stay with RVD and pretend to be his friend to keep him off the scent. He even arranges a fight (albeit mild) to show he's willing to fight for his friend. The night he was laid out was a put-on to bring out RVD, still injured, to try to help. Abyss does more damage, but Ink Inc. stops it, thinking they're helping their friend Hardy by saving RVD.

13. Several times Nash keeps telling Joe that he's on the wrong side and he's being led astray, but Joe being who he is, doesn't listen or care. Sting, Nash and Pope challenge Hogan, Jarrett and Samoa Joe. The back surgery is real but Hogan gladly stays away, knowing Sting has figured out the entire plan and there's no point in Hogan getting hurt for no reason.

14. 10/7/2010 - Abyss intimidates Dixie enough to be dependent on Bischoff to fire Abyss. She owns the company but doesn't have the courage after all that's happened to her and her family. It works, but Bischoff gives her a different contract, which more than likely is a power of attorney giving absolute power of the company, leaving her with nearly nothing. The final step is the belt, which Abyss must weaken the contenders and Jarrett must distract Sting, Nash, and Pope. Bischoff has Angle and Anderson come out first to let them expend their energy. Hardy lays low in the battle royale, staying down and "injured."

15. 10/10/10 - Jarrett doesn't need Joe anymore, so he walks out on him, leaving him to Sting, Nash and Pope, knowing that Joe won't be smart and just leave. The three beat him up and leave him laying, telling him they told him so the whole time. Abyss is on a mission to hurt RVD, which he does, but loses. Still, mission accomplished as RVD is not at full strength and needs healing. During the 3-way dance, Hardy goes outside while Angle and Anderson beat each other into near exhaustion. Bischoff comes for the finishing blow but Hogan comes out, seeming to help but actually to watch. Hardy gets up, delivers the final blows and wins the TNA World Title. Hogan and Bischoff have their champion, Jarrett has some control back, and Abyss has done his master's bidding. RVD is shocked at all of his friends turning and gets nailed.
_________________________________________________________________

This coming Impact, I'd have Hogan, Bischoff, Jarrett, Abyss and Hardy come out and explain themselves: Jarrett's overall plan of Hogan and Bischoff usurpation, Abyss's fondness for Hogan, and Hardy wanting a favor in exchange for his services (his brother getting a free contract, which would be hinted at) and announce THEY are taking over, since now Hogan, Bischoff and Jarrett have 75% over the company's stock (25% for each guy) and the TNA World Title. Name-wise, I'd wouldn't even go near the NWO brand; instead they'd have some variation of a corporation\power group, and bring in their own lackeys (adding Helms, Haas and Benjamin) and cause Fourtune to split (bring Matt Morgan, Douglas Williams and Kazarian over to Hogan's group, while turning Styles, Beer Money and Flair faces since Styles got screwed over).

Opposing would be RVD joining EV2, plus Sting, The Pope, and Anderson representing Dixie and her remaining power. Samoa Joe would be his usual wild card self, and I'd spend a calendar year with the feud (because it copies the NWO) having Dixie's group continually fight to get the power back to Dixie by first getting to Jarrett, then Bischoff then Hogan and the three of them losing power little by little.

 

[realdealasshole]

hardy still has the biggest fan following behind John Cena.. Yea Hardy's merchandise still sells.. yea it is ridiculous. At the TNA house show in Lake Charles, all the people wanted Jeff Hardy merchandise. The problem with KK's opinion is who else in TNA's roster would a heel turn have made a splash? Angle has been a heel on seperate occasions in his career. Anderson just went through a face turn. Angle is awesome but he doesn't have the fan following Hardy does. Anderson is probably the best behind Flair on the mic n TNA currently. But he doesn't have the fan following.

Like I said this turn will not have the same impact as Hogan, due to who hogan is... But who comes close to hogan? No one really.. Closest to getting to Hogan status is Cena. The turn has the backing of Hogan as a heel to pave the way.

Great points, but I think the end of your post explains exactly why so many people are crying out that the turn bombed. No one comes close to Hogan (though I'd argue Cena's turn would be equally great to see if done right).

So if no one comes close to Hogan, especially no one in TNA, and it obviously doesn't take a genius to see that, then why do everything in your power to recreate that moment? Seriously, they had it at the same place, they involved Hogan, they did the NWO over the head double point. It's clear they were seriously attempting to recreate 1996 all over again. Including the stuff they made Tenay say. Like, "He's supposed to be a role model!"

If they wanted to make Hardy heel to shock people and create a stir, don't do it in a setting where it's blatantly obvious that you're recreating what happened in 96. And don't do it at the biggest event of the night. And don't do it after months and months of build up as if it's going to be this devastating thing. And don't do it in the middle of the main event of your biggest show. All those things are foolish mistakes which made what might have been a decent at best heel turn, turn into a completely awful heel turn that made a die hard TNA fan like myself stop watching until they get their shit together.

 

[realdealasshole]

let me just quote a post from another thread... to end the "it is not logical."

Hardy couldn't beat RVD... so he joined the "they" so that "they" could control the world title along with the company... explains why RVD was stripped of the belt... and why oh why would Hardy turn heel... he wanted the belt. PERIOD.. He may add some "character" or should I say more reasoning to why he turned on Impact, but the logistics of the whole angle make perfect sense.

its perfectly logical to those that have been watching TNA this year. How can KK and any of you be so up in arms without seeing the BIG picture. Or without even hearing from the Man himself.

Only thing is, it's not about logic that is so upsetting. It's about that Hardy has done NOTHING in TNA since arriving with Bischoff and Hogan. NOTHING. No good matches with the exception of fighting Angle. But hey, who doesn't have a good match with Angle? He's a shell of what he once was in a completely different company. Making his turn...meaningless.

 

[Kcirdor]

Great points, but I think the end of your post explains exactly why so many people are crying out that the turn bombed. No one comes close to Hogan (though I'd argue Cena's turn would be equally great to see if done right).

So if no one comes close to Hogan, especially no one in TNA, and it obviously doesn't take a genius to see that, then why do everything in your power to recreate that moment? Seriously, they had it at the same place, they involved Hogan, they did the NWO over the head double point. It's clear they were seriously attempting to recreate 1996 all over again. Including the stuff they made Tenay say. Like, "He's supposed to be a role model!"

If they wanted to make Hardy heel to shock people and create a stir, don't do it in a setting where it's blatantly obvious that you're recreating what happened in 96. And don't do it at the biggest event of the night. And don't do it after months and months of build up as if it's going to be this devastating thing. And don't do it in the middle of the main event of your biggest show. All those things are foolish mistakes which made what might have been a decent at best heel turn, turn into a completely awful heel turn that made a die hard TNA fan like myself stop watching until they get their shit together.

read my above quoted post... it looks to me like TNA has been working this angle for several months now... And by the way they set up the entire angle over the course for 6 or so months... Whenever the "deception" stuff started, it looks to me like TNA has there shit together nice and firmly. No poopy pebbles in their toilet bowl.

 

[Kcirdor]

Only thing is, it's not about logic that is so upsetting. It's about that Hardy has done NOTHING in TNA since arriving with Bischoff and Hogan. NOTHING. No good matches with the exception of fighting Angle. But hey, who doesn't have a good match with Angle? He's a shell of what he once was in a completely different company. Making his turn...meaningless.

RVD did nothing in TNA and won the belt in about a month... Hogan and Bishoff did nothing in TNA and ended up running the show. Different companies blah blah blah... Who really gives a crap about different companies. Please name all the current "tna originals" that are still in TNA... Name ALLLLL of them that were built up in TNA.. Its no different then the 90s when WWE/WCW would end up swapping wrestlers during the feud.

Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko and Perry Saturn didn't start at the bottom and job for a few years to work their way to the top. They were thrown in the Mix. Why? Because they had Name recognition from another "Big company" dude. This is TNA, a much smaller market. They need a Bigger rub from the bigger company...

This whole idea that the only people that can be champions or top dogs in this company HAVE to be Joe or AJ, would only hold TNA back. But TNA has bigger aspirations then being the "other little guys"

BTW the entire angle has been Blatenly obvious since the "deception" angle started. So blatenly obvious that it worked perfectly.

 

[MayorMcCheese]

TNA cannot win with some people

If Angle/Anderson turn heel it's "predictable"
when TNA skeets on the "smarks" and turns Hardy heel it's "Wrong" and "stupid"

face it most of you are mad because you never saw it coming

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

hardy still has the biggest fan following behind John Cena.. Yea Hardy's merchandise still sells.. yea it is ridiculous. At the TNA house show in Lake Charles, all the people wanted Jeff Hardy merchandise. The problem with KK's opinion is who else in TNA's roster would a heel turn have made a splash? Angle has been a heel on seperate occasions in his career. Anderson just went through a face turn. Angle is awesome but he doesn't have the fan following Hardy does. Anderson is probably the best behind Flair on the mic n TNA currently. But he doesn't have the fan following.

Like I said this turn will not have the same impact as Hogan, due to who hogan is... But who comes close to hogan? No one really.. Closest to getting to Hogan status is Cena. The turn has the backing of Hogan as a heel to pave the way.

look dude im not questioning the fact that hardy was probably the most logical choice for the heel turn under the circumstances.i used the same logic as you did when i made the post predicting hardy's turn.but its the whole angle that has been pretty stupidly done and more importantly hurried.

look you want to turn hardy your most over babyface?? do it.but give him a few title reigns first.same with anderson.tna is believing like he is some superstar of theirs where in reality he hasnt won a single title.the thing i never got is why do it on 10/10/10??? why not on 11/11/11 or 12/12/12.you got to remember that hogan came to wcw in 1994 and the nwo angle took place in 1996.thats two years of buildup you got right there itself.

i think the thing that was required was for tna to have built some credibility for these guys and then gone through with their huge plan

 

[MB1025]

Great points, but I think the end of your post explains exactly why so many people are crying out that the turn bombed. No one comes close to Hogan (though I'd argue Cena's turn would be equally great to see if done right).

So if no one comes close to Hogan, especially no one in TNA, and it obviously doesn't take a genius to see that, then why do everything in your power to recreate that moment? Seriously, they had it at the same place, they involved Hogan, they did the NWO over the head double point. It's clear they were seriously attempting to recreate 1996 all over again. Including the stuff they made Tenay say. Like, "He's supposed to be a role model!"

If they wanted to make Hardy heel to shock people and create a stir, don't do it in a setting where it's blatantly obvious that you're recreating what happened in 96. And don't do it at the biggest event of the night. And don't do it after months and months of build up as if it's going to be this devastating thing. And don't do it in the middle of the main event of your biggest show. All those things are foolish mistakes which made what might have been a decent at best heel turn, turn into a completely awful heel turn that made a die hard TNA fan like myself stop watching until they get their shit together.

I am not going to bother replying to this. If you want out then leave. Don't watch and don't post in here. It will just be one less fan that keeps posting junk like this instead of actual discussion about what is going on in TNA. So instead of arguing just leave and don't watch.

As far as this angle goes it is really all opinion. If TNA goes on to gain a ton of viewers and make a lot of money then this whole topic is pointless. IMO there shouldn't even be any hate or speculation about this until it plays out. A lot and I mean a lot of people will just jump on the hate wagon and just run with it. There hasn't been one Impact or promo since BFG and this is what I supposed to think about all this.


It is a rehash angle that was poorly done and there is absolutely no way that this has any chance of being successful. Yet we are not even a week into it.

 

[Rayne]

face it most of you are mad because you never saw it coming

Um, I'd be thrilled if I didn't see what happened coming.

You're under the mistaken impression that this is about Jeff Hardy. Anyone in that three-way match, along with a good third of the rest of the card, could have been playing the Jeff Hardy role. It's not that it was a well-written piece, it's that TNA creative kept being so vague as to allow themselves almost any option.

The Anonymous Influence Storyline
(A guide for beginning writers)

1) Notice that your ratings are sagging, and that you have no individual performers currently capable of taking a show-steering role.
2) Introduce your anonymous influence. Keep details as vague as possible; the less you tell fans, the more room they have to guess.
3) Repeat references to the anonymous influence frequently, to give your audience the impression that this is a major storyline, and not some flash-in-the-pan quickshot story.
4) Exclude a couple of the most obvious possibilities. They aren't going to be your big reveal anyways; because of how obvious they are, the reveal for them would be a let down.

Note that we haven't established who our anonymous influence is. It's an unnecessary step at this point. As the writer you don't have to know; that can come along later. Episodic television is great for giving you time to think and watch your audience develop.

5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 a few times.
6) Announce a place and time for your big reveal. PPV is a good place, but usually companies tend to deliver on the "anonymous influence" on their main cable show (who's the real leader of the nWo, the "Higher Power" storyline), since a much larger share of your audience watches the free shows rather than PPV.
7) Pick the option that makes little sense to the viewer, but can be explained simply. This provides a sense of believable shock. The audience asks themselves "oh, wow, why didn't I see that?", and it's because up until recently, the writers didn't know they were going to write that.

It's really simple, formulaic writing. The fact that both companies are working that as their major storyline right now is a testament to its proven success in driving ratings.

Jeff Hardy was your clear #7; what this angle was about was Hogan and Bischoff, and that's why people are pissed. Everyone saw that coming. Not only did everyone, their mothers and dead grandmothers see it coming, but they've seen it before. I can't speak for the world, but I know I'm not alone in my opinion that I'm just sick of seeing Hogan on TV, at center stage. It's not "boo, bad guy" heat, it's "I am really tired of seeing you and wondering what else is on" heat.

I wanted to like this angle at first, because Jeff Hardy was a surprise option, but unfortunately, I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to tell myself that I like something which I can see is crap. I like what I didn't see coming. What pisses me off is how much of it I did see coming, and I'm far from alone in that perception.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Um, I'd be thrilled if I didn't see what happened coming.

You're under the mistaken impression that this is about Jeff Hardy. Anyone in that three-way match, along with a good third of the rest of the card, could have been playing the Jeff Hardy role. It's not that it was a well-written piece, it's that TNA creative kept being so vague as to allow themselves almost any option.

Jeff Hardy was your clear #7; what this angle was about was Hogan and Bischoff, and that's why people are pissed. Everyone saw that coming. Not only did everyone, their mothers and dead grandmothers see it coming, but they've seen it before. I can't speak for the world, but I know I'm not alone in my opinion that I'm just sick of seeing Hogan on TV, at center stage. It's not "boo, bad guy" heat, it's "I am really tired of seeing you and wondering what else is on" heat.

I wanted to like this angle at first, because Jeff Hardy was a surprise option, but unfortunately, I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to tell myself that I like something which I can see is crap. I like what I didn't see coming. What pisses me off is how much of it I did see coming, and I'm far from alone in that perception.

just saying you said exactly what i wanted to say.as i wrote in my post russo likes surprises just for the heck of it.say if you just interchange what rvd and jeff have been doing for the last three months youll get exactly the same result.

and yeah i saw it coming as well

though ill say the heat on hogan is pretty much real.hogan is still the biggest star of this show though it may not seem that way to us smarks

 

[Kcirdor]

look dude im not questioning the fact that hardy was probably the most logical choice for the heel turn under the circumstances.i used the same logic as you did when i made the post predicting hardy's turn.but its the whole angle that has been pretty stupidly done and more importantly hurried.

look you want to turn hardy your most over babyface?? do it.but give him a few title reigns first.same with anderson.tna is believing like he is some superstar of theirs where in reality he hasnt won a single title.the thing i never got is why do it on 10/10/10??? why not on 11/11/11 or 12/12/12.you got to remember that hogan came to wcw in 1994 and the nwo angle took place in 1996.thats two years of buildup you got right there itself.

i think the thing that was required was for tna to have built some credibility for these guys and then gone through with their huge plan

I think the angle was well done. It accomplished exactly what they set out to do. Cause contreversy. Sorry but TNA doesnt need to wait two years for Razor Ramon and Diesel's contracts to run out and bring in outsiders to jump start the new nWo. Oh wait... that seems to be a problem for you. Were you mad at WCW for not building some credibility in Scott Hall and Kevin Nash?

Remember it didn't take them long to gain the WCW Tag Team Championship.. ANd back then Tag Team Wrestling meant something.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think the angle was well done. It accomplished exactly what they set out to do. Cause contreversy. Sorry but TNA doesnt need to wait two years for Razor Ramon and Diesel's contracts to run out and bring in outsiders to jump start the new nWo. Oh wait... that seems to be a problem for you. Were you mad at WCW for not building some credibility in Scott Hall and Kevin Nash?

uh no its a bit different from what happenned with hall and nash.their selling card was that they were projected as a group who were coming from outside to invade wcw.nothing of that sort here.they are just feeding of the star power of jeff hardy,something which he accomplished in the wwe and also something in which the wwe had a major part to play.

so lets say hypothetically a guy just watches tna and isnt aware of jeff's achievements elsewhere.what do you think will his reaction to the sequence of events be???im guessing something along the lines of "who cares"

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I do agree with Kelly's assessment of TNA in general. In my opinion, 2010 has not been a good year for TNA.

As far as the Jeff Hardy issue goes, I honestly think that it's too early to declare it to be a success or a mistake. The first episode of iMPACT! since BFG airs tonight and it'll give us the first insight into this whole deal. Jeff Hardy's time in TNA has been quite mediocre thus far, he hasn't really done anything or been involved in anything significant so maybe this could potentially breathe new life into the guy. Hardy's heel turn is the one and only thing about "They" that has me legitimately interested at this point.

 

[Kcirdor]

uh no its a bit different from what happenned with hall and nash.their selling card was that they were projected as a group who were coming from outside to invade wcw.nothing of that sort here.they are just feeding of the star power of jeff hardy,something which he accomplished in the wwe and also something in which the wwe had a major part to play.

so lets say hypothetically a guy just watches tna and isnt aware of jeff's achievements elsewhere.what do you think will his reaction to the sequence of events be???im guessing something along the lines of "who cares"

lets just say, TNA is trying to build their audience to include people that don't just watch TNA. They've been building Jeff Hardy's win/loss record in TNA since he got there. He hasn't lost many bouts.

lets also just say that the TNA fan just watches TNA.. So they must not even know who Hulk Hogan and Eric bishoff is either. So why should they have even cared when TNA signed them last to take over in January.

lets also just say that jeff hardy is still the top selling merchandised wrestler in TNA even though he "hasn't done anything"

lets also just say that RVD was in the company for about a month before he won the belt from AJ styles.

Lets also just say that no one gave a crap about RVD.

lets also just say that TNA might as well just shut down because the only "tna originals" are joe and AJ and they aren't THE guy in TNA.

But really Lets just keep it simple. TNA is trying to build a fan base. They've been pulling in the SAME ratings for awhile now. And the ratings have begun a slight incline in the last month or so as the "deception" angle has finally been promised to Pay off.

It did. It worked. It has people pissed. It has people confused. It worked.

TNA is building off of already established talent. They are past the point of INDY level people that no one has heard about.

 

[realdealasshole]

RVD did nothing in TNA and won the belt in about a month... Hogan and Bishoff did nothing in TNA and ended up running the show. Different companies blah blah blah... Who really gives a crap about different companies. Please name all the current "tna originals" that are still in TNA... Name ALLLLL of them that were built up in TNA.. Its no different then the 90s when WWE/WCW would end up swapping wrestlers during the feud.

Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko and Perry Saturn didn't start at the bottom and job for a few years to work their way to the top. They were thrown in the Mix. Why? Because they had Name recognition from another "Big company" dude. This is TNA, a much smaller market. They need a Bigger rub from the bigger company...

This whole idea that the only people that can be champions or top dogs in this company HAVE to be Joe or AJ, would only hold TNA back. But TNA has bigger aspirations then being the "other little guys"

BTW the entire angle has been Blatenly obvious since the "deception" angle started. So blatenly obvious that it worked perfectly.

It didn't work perfectly though. Yeah, RVD won the title after doing nothing. And his reign sucked. It did nothing for the fans. Hogan and Bischoff, again...no one cares about them.

Jericho comes to WWF and before they ever put a single title on him, they make him interrupt the Rock. That's a BIG statement. That's something people cared about. And that's what made him becoming a big star more credible. Did people know who he was from WCW? Yeah, some. But WWF didn't care about that. They made him their own star. Same thing as the Radicalz. Before they did anything, they made a statement their first week by bringing them in to destroy the New Age Outlaws, the most beloved tag team at the time.

TNA doesn't do that with new guys. They just bring them in and assume people know who they are and assume that their previous star power is still there. Maybe they did have it planned for months. That's irrelevant. Fact is, even if it is a plan perfectly fulfilled. It's a horrible plan horribly fulfilled.

 

[realdealasshole]

I am not going to bother replying to this. If you want out then leave. Don't watch and don't post in here. It will just be one less fan that keeps posting junk like this instead of actual discussion about what is going on in TNA. So instead of arguing just leave and don't watch.

As far as this angle goes it is really all opinion. If TNA goes on to gain a ton of viewers and make a lot of money then this whole topic is pointless. IMO there shouldn't even be any hate or speculation about this until it plays out. A lot and I mean a lot of people will just jump on the hate wagon and just run with it. There hasn't been one Impact or promo since BFG and this is what I supposed to think about all this.


It is a rehash angle that was poorly done and there is absolutely no way that this has any chance of being successful. Yet we are not even a week into it.

Thanks. I'll take that as you having no way to deny that it was a clear cut attempted remake of Hogan's turn in '96 so you have nothing to say. And no...I'm not a TNA hater. I've watched TNA from the moment it started. Fact is, this turn SUCKED. It just did.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I agree that something being shocking just for attention doesn't make it right or logical. Its too early to understand where this angle is going or if it is going to pay off. Maybe if Abyss didn't say "they were coming" every 5 minutes and Dixie didn't tease " A change for TNA forever" then maybe fans wouldn't have expected the moon. The angle would have been shocking and good if it wasn't as over hyped. Then again, the ratings and possibly even the buy rates for the PPV have gone up since the speculation. The ending of the main event was a little overwhelming if someone expected a huge name to come in TNA that wasn't there already.

I was overwhelmed by the main event, but it did leave me interested to see Impact on Thursday night. If the main event was a clean finish with Angle or even Anderson winning, then it wouldn't be as talked about as Hardy turning heel with Bischoff and Hogan. Everything depends on how the angle plays out. We can't honestly say the ending of Bound For Glory was bad without knowing the outcome. I'm sure a lot of people hated Hogan turning at Bash at the Beach in 96 for ruining the PPV, but the aftermath is what people really remember.

I think if this angle is played out well then people will remember the angle more than they will the ending of the PPV.

 

[snoopy]

It didn't work perfectly though. Yeah, RVD won the title after doing nothing. And his reign sucked. It did nothing for the fans. Hogan and Bischoff, again...no one cares about them.

Jericho comes to WWF and before they ever put a single title on him, they make him interrupt the Rock. That's a BIG statement. That's something people cared about. And that's what made him becoming a big star more credible. Did people know who he was from WCW? Yeah, some. But WWF didn't care about that. They made him their own star. Same thing as the Radicalz. Before they did anything, they made a statement their first week by bringing them in to destroy the New Age Outlaws, the most beloved tag team at the time.

TNA doesn't do that with new guys. They just bring them in and assume people know who they are and assume that their previous star power is still there. Maybe they did have it planned for months. That's irrelevant. Fact is, even if it is a plan perfectly fulfilled. It's a horrible plan horribly fulfilled.

Boy I hate when people say things that's just silly! Rvd didn't do anything upon his Debut in TNA! Huh?! He only Kicked Sting in the face and pinned him in about a minute! But I guess to you that's nothing!

On to what this whole thread is about.

Now what is the complaint about when you haven't seen how this will playout? I'll admit this could be interestingly good or it could Bomb! But that's what you have to do, take chances, most good or great businessmen will tell you, if you're not taking chances then you are not trying! Hardy has been in Tna for Ten months now and hasn't generated the buzz like he has this week! And that was the problem with Hulk Hogan in WCW, So they flipped him heel and their you have it the start of the greatest era in Pro Wrestling history! And that's the goal here to create something like it .not exactly obviously,But something and that's what Tna is trying to do!

All they ask is give it a chance! That's All! You never know, he could take this as spark that he needs and do well in this role! You never know?

Now I find it funny that people who's supposely so intellegent couldn't follow the Deception storyline it was as simple as Sting,Nash And eventually Pope Knowing that Hogan,Bischoff and eventually Jarrett were not the good guys. And they were trying to fight against what they Knew was coming and Hogan and Bischoff were trying to portray Sting and company as the bad guys when deep down inside they Knew they were the bad guys !

That's not so complicated for me and I only have an High school Diploma! Why was it so hard for Kevin Kelley and other people to figure out! I don't get it. Now that's confusing to me to figure out!

Finally Kevin Kelley what are people supposed to do?Everytime a person's favorite Wrestler Turns heel or is pinned in a match quit watching? Really?

 

[realdealasshole]

Boy I hate when people say things that's just silly! Rvd didn't do anything upon his Debut in TNA! Huh?! He only Kicked Sting in the face and pinned him in about a minute! But I guess to you that's nothing!

On to what this whole thread is about.

Now what is the complaint about when you haven't seen how this will playout? I'll admit this could be interestingly good or it could Bomb! But that's what you have to do, take chances, most good or great businessmen will tell you, if you're not taking chances then you are not trying! Hardy has been in Tna for Ten months now and hasn't generated the buzz like he has this week! And that was the problem with Hulk Hogan in WCW, So they flipped him heel and their you have it the start of the greatest era in Pro Wrestling history! And that's the goal here to create something like it .not exactly obviously,But something and that's what Tna is trying to do!

All they ask is give it a chance! That's All! You never know, he could take this as spark that he needs and do well in this role! You never know?

Now I find it funny that people who's supposely so intellegent couldn't follow the Deception storyline it was as simple as Sting,Nash And eventually Pope Knowing that Hogan,Bischoff and eventually Jarrett were not the good guys. And they were trying to fight against what they Knew was coming and Hogan and Bischoff were trying to portray Sting and company as the bad guys when deep down inside they Knew they were the bad guys !

That's not so complicated for me and I only have an High school Diploma! Why was it so hard for Kevin Kelley and other people to figure out! I don't get it. Now that's confusing to me to figure out!

Finally Kevin Kelley what are people supposed to do?Everytime a person's favorite Wrestler Turns heel or is pinned in a match quit watching? Really?

I seem to remember nobody taking Sting as a heel seriously. So yep...not really impacting. Not hating on RVD at all though since he has zero to do with this thread's original purpose.

 

[chrome_305]

People always complain about TNA.I say go and watch some WWE and cheer the same main event people over and over.When Hardy was in the WWE every one was on the Hardy Boys sacks whats the difference now?Cant say age because look who is champ over at the E.
Tna story line has been good the last couple month suck it up and drive on.It goes for more than 2weeks and some people seem to have short attention spans.

Stop bashing TNA and bash WWE for jobbing evan bourne,not taking care of thier wrestlers (contractors lol)or for WWE using tribute to the troops as marketing or for linda spending a shi8z load of money on a campain race instead of her workers or the troops!
Look at the moral of the WWE locker room a lot of people not happy