People above the World Championship?

[MOExecution]

So in Professional Wrestling or matter fact ANY kind of athletics people always say, "If your goal isn't to be the best then you shouldn't be here." In Professional Wrestling winning the World Championship is the highest honor that you ca have. It shows that the company is really appreciating your work. It shows that you can draw and fill seats. It shows that you are the biggest merchandise seller. It shows that you are the most popular. It shows that you are the top performer in the company. Winning the World Championship simply shows that you are without a doubt the top dog in the company. And we have seen some of the very best hold that title from; Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Triple H, Ric Flair, and much more. These guys without a doubt have revolutionized the Professional Wrestling industry and some have held the World Championship on multiple occasions. The Rock is a seven time World Champion, Triple H is a thirteen time World Champion, Ric Flair is a sixteen time World Champion. Edge is a eleven time World Champion. John Cena is a nine time World Champion and the list goes on and on.

I was talking to my friend today and he said to me something quoted by Triple H, "There comes a time in your career where winning the World Championship isn't important anymore. You had your shot. You had your time in the spotlight. You were the top guy. You were champion. It is time to move on." not word from word, but something along those lines. So the question here is do you believe that there is ANYBODY that doesn't need any more use of the title World Champion? Or do you think there is anybody above the World Championship?

I will be honest there are a few guys in my opinion; Undertaker doesn't need a World Championship to be recognized as one of the greats. He had his shot in the spotlight and can go on solidly without holding the World title and continue his legendary career. John Cena he is a 9x World Champion and during the Summer of 2010 he was kept out of the World Championship picture and he was still Main Eventing shows/PPVs. John Cena doesn't really need the World Championship to stay relevant. He can feud with some big names or be involved in a BIG storyline and will still sell out arenas. Randy Orton The guy is 30 years old and at one point in 2010 was the top guy in the company. Randy Orton held the World Championship seven times and like John Cena he can be involved in a top storyline and continue to stay relevant in his career. He doesn't need the World Championship at all. Besides Randy Orton is better on the chase then actually holding the title.

I have always been against holding the title multiple times in a row especially back to back. I think you really know when your time is up with being World Champion when there isn't a buzz anymore when you win. So what do you think? I think another honorable mention would be Edge, but in my opinion he needs the World Championship to stay relevant. So let me hear what you have to say.

 

[Henhouse]

Shawn Michaels last few years, I thought that he was above the belt. Edge, I don't think he is. Edge is a really really great wrestler, but not a legend. 'Taker doesn't need the belt either, but it's good for business when he has it. Cena isn't above the belt, yeah, he's had a while without it and done okay, but that was because there was a good storyline going on. Good storylines aren't always going on, so I don't think he's above it.

This doesn't necessarily fit in with the legends and veterans who are gonna be mentioned here, but I think CM Punk is comfortable not having a belt, or needing one, especially as a heel.

 

[chenandlerbong]

Well to me HHH and The Undertaker are in the same league as HBK was in his last few years, they have gone past the point of winning the title adding to how people view them. They are regarded as legends, and having the belt doesn't add to that. Randy Orton will get to that stage, but to me he needs to be chasing the title to really be at his best. I would also say that CM Punk doesn't need a title, he is just that good at this point in his career. And I know that he's not technically wrestling at the moment, but Chris Jericho can be put in alongside HHH and 'taker, as he is almost as much of a legend as them, or alongside Punk because he is that good.

 

[djwwe]

I agree with Moe. Although it would be cool to see Triple H, Edge, and/or Cena Chase Flair's mark of 16 world championships. Maybe let those three get up to 15 or maybe even 16 and have a Triple Threat Match at WM with the winner breaking Flair's mark. Also, guys like Del Rio, Barrett, and Sheamus sould have a year or 2 under their belts before even being considered for a world title. Sheamus won twice but now is a mid-card. Barrett has great potential. And Del Rio just sucks.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

A part example would easily be Hulk Hogan, even when he dropped the WWE title to Warrior, he was main eventing SummerSlam..

As for the present, Taker is definately one of them, Doesn't need to carry the belt, has been in the businss for so long, he will always be a main event player.. HHH is another because He has done it all in the business as well, considered a legend in my book..

HBK since his return in 2002, he may not have always been in the main event, but has always performed to the top level, didn't need to carry the belt, not because of the storylines, but he made any feud work whether it was personal or not without a belt..

 

[Radical Canadian Goose]

Great Post. Yes there are several wrestlers that are above the world title. Before I state those wrestlers I want to state that my personal opinion is that no wrestler should ever catch Flairs record of 16 world titles. To me there are so many titles considered "World" championships that it is way to easy to do and Flairs record came in a different era when a title meant something and added prestige to your name. Ok that aside I believe the following wrestlers are above the title:

WWE
HHH
Undertaker
John Cena

TNA
Kurt Angle
Sting

and to a lesser extent I'd say CM Punk, Kane, Randy Orton and Jeff Jarrett. Guys like Edge ,IMO, need a title to be relevent

 

[EastCoastFan]

I don't think Cena and Orton are "above the belt" yet. They're the top two guys in the company right now.

For guys who have been "above the belt", I'd go with Undertaker (definitely), Andre the Giant, Bruno Sammartino (in his later years until Vince took over), Shawn Michaels (his second run in WWE 2002-2010) and now HHH. I think part of the reason for DX's reunions was so HBK and HHH could be top dogs without hogging the title picture.

 

[Azane]

to take it even further, When you look at the all time greats, a nice portion of the list contains hall of famers who never held a world title, Dibiase Sr., Piper, Henning, the list actually is pretty decent sized.
and I don't think any of those legends needed a title, of course the titles are hot potatoes in today's wrestling so its a different time.

 

[TheKev]

Currently I think its only The Undertaker, Triple H and Kurt Angle. Punk is fine with out a title, but isnt true main event yet. Cena would become irrelevent without a title and if he wasnt treated as the golden child.

The Rock was always better chasing the title and I think if he would have stayed in the ring a bit longer he would have been in this category, he was just not around long enough. Still as he has shown, he is a legend.

 

[Richard]

John Cena and Randy Orton are not above the World Championships at the moment, maybe later on in their career but right now, WWE needs them in their title pictures as there aren't many other big enough faces on RAW to fill in for Orton and Cena while they go off and feud with others, maybe except Triple H, but I think he is above the championships.

Triple H and Undertaker are definately above the championships. They have both had massive careers, epic feuds, WrestleMania moment after WrestleMania moment and do not need the titles to look dominant and powerful and a threat to any superstar. It wouldn't matter if neither of them won another championship before they retired.

 

[CelticCorey]

John Cena and Randy Orton are not above the World Championships at the moment, maybe later on in their career but right now, WWE needs them in their title pictures as there aren't many other big enough faces on RAW to fill in for Orton and Cena while they go off and feud with others, maybe except Triple H, but I think he is above the championships.

Triple H and Undertaker are definately above the championships. They have both had massive careers, epic feuds, WrestleMania moment after WrestleMania moment and do not need the titles to look dominant and powerful and a threat to any superstar. It wouldn't matter if neither of them won another championship before they retired.

IMO, Cena is above the TITLE but NOT the title picture. Cena is facing Miz at Wrestlemania because of the fact that Cena is their cash cow and is needed to sell PPV's but PLEASE TELL ME what ANOTHER title reign does for John Cena? Absolutely nothing. If Cena wins at Wrestlemania, it's just another year, another Wrestlemania, another Cena victory. Like it's an annual thing. Cena is one of the biggest names in company history and while he is your top draw, he can draw WITHOUT the championship.

This is why Miz SHOULD go over Cena at Wrestlemania. A win does NOTHING for Cena. But if Wrestlemania is your showcase of the immortals, what better way to immortalize Miz? Miz retaining would be the best way to establish him. A new key player in your company. One that if Cena gets hurt or something, may be able to carry the company. Because why exactly does Cena need the championship again? Cena is in the championship MATCH so it'll sell. But Cena can stay relevant without the title.

If we saw Cena vs. Rock or Cena vs. Taker at Mania this year, I think they could've gotten away with Miz/Morrison for the WWE Championship. Hell, I think they could've gotten away with it at the Rumble due to the fact that the Rumble is your main attraction.

WWE revolves around Cena. Cena hasn't held the title since June. Cena hasn't had a title match since September. So while he needs to still be in championship matches for the sake of business, WWE has managed to keep the belt off of him this long and has survived. And if it was up to me, it would be off of him even longer.

 

[Decarow]

The examples you used were people that were hardly out of the title scene.

I think you have to have back-up plan to be able to main event without being in the title scene.

Taker has his streak. And that only comes up once a year. Sometimes the title is on the line.

HHH and HBK reunited DX into the main event in 2006. Their prime objective was to get rid of the McMahons and sell merchandise. But they still fought for the WWE championship from time to time.

But look at the other people. Hogan, Austin, and Rock were always in the title picture for the most part.

Cena has barely been out of the title picture since WrestleMania 2005.

Orton has barely been out of it since he was feuding with Cena in 2007.

And like Henhouse said, Edge is not above the belt. He's an amazing champion. But he can't chase the belt worth shit. People want to see him be the champion, not try to become one. And since his move to Smackdown, when was he not in the title race (besides injury).

Let's face it. This world title is the end all be all of the business. You can't main event without it. Sometimes you have rare occasions and storylines that don't call for the title, but those don't last too long. You have to prove yourself a strong champion before you can ascend to a higher calling.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I wouldn't say Orton or Cena are above the title yet. Those guys are still needed as the guys who start to put over the new breed. The Miz vs John Cena at Wrestlemania would not be nearly as important if it wasn't for the title. Not to say that Cena couldn't sell out crowds without the title. If the program is good enough, Cena could still main event cards without the title being involved.

To me, the only guys in the company that are above the title are Hunter and Taker. Even still I wouldn't mind seeing them in the hunt, I just wouldn't want to see the title on them again.

 

[djwwe]

Celtic, I agree with what other people have said on this post..... Cena is not above the title picture yet. He certainly will be, along with Orton, in the future, just not now. Miz is very talented, but he is due to drop the title very soon. And, correct me if I'm wrong, has Cena has ever lost a one-on-one match at WM with the title on the line? No. You do make some good points that I do agree with, such as Cena can draw without the belt, and the Miz/Morrison Title match would have worked. the Rock will get involved in the WWE title match, but I think he is going to Rock Bottom Miz to help Cena win, then Rock Bottom Cena so whomever wins MITB(I predict Morrison, he is due for a title) will cash in and become WWE Champion. If it is JoMo, then this would set up a possible Miz/Morrison feud for the belt.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In the WWE, Triple H & The Undertaker are definitely above either the WHC or WWE Championship. Truth be told, they've both been above the level of World Champion for a long while now. I think that John Cena is someone that's getting pretty close to being above it. After all, Cena is a 9 time World Champion and he's still only in his early 30s and has been the strongest World Champion overall over the course of the past decade.

In TNA, guys like Sting & Kurt Angle are also at that level. I'm not particularly interested in seeing either one of them in the TNA World Heavyweight Championship picture because neither of them need it. With the possible exception of The Undertaker, Sting is probably the most overall revered and respected wrestlers in the United States and when you reach that level of respect from both fans and other wrestlers, a World Championship seems like small potatoes almost. Kurt Angle's accomplishments as both an amateur and pro wrestler are beyond impressive. Nobody has brought more legitimacy into pro wrestling than Kurt Angle has. An Olympic gold medal is pretty much above and beyond anything else that you can do in the world of athletics and all the World Championship reigns Angle's had over the course of his pro career is just icing on the cake.

 

[CelticCorey]

Celtic, I agree with what other people have said on this post..... Cena is not above the title picture yet. He certainly will be, along with Orton, in the future, just not now. Miz is very talented, but he is due to drop the title very soon. And, correct me if I'm wrong, has Cena has ever lost a one-on-one match at WM with the title on the line? No. You do make some good points that I do agree with, such as Cena can draw without the belt, and the Miz/Morrison Title match would have worked. the Rock will get involved in the WWE title match, but I think he is going to Rock Bottom Miz to help Cena win, then Rock Bottom Cena so whomever wins MITB(I predict Morrison, he is due for a title) will cash in and become WWE Champion. If it is JoMo, then this would set up a possible Miz/Morrison feud for the belt.

Cena has never lost one on one, but there's a first time for everything. How does Cena benefit from winning? But Miz does benefit. Cena is not above the title picture but I do think he can sell without the title. I would've bought WM 27 if the main event was Miz/Morrison for the WWE title.

You see, some on here tried to justify that Orton was the right choice for the WWE title match at the Royal Rumble instead of John Morrison. But when you think Royal Rumble, do you think WWE title match? When you think about the Royal Rumble, what is the big draw, what is the maina attraction? The Royal Rumble match. That's your money maker for the PPV. That is what the hype is all about. Every once in awhile, I'm not saying all the time; but every so often it wouldn't be a bad idea to leave the established draws out and let the up and comers duke it out. Cena, Orton, Kane, Show, Barrett, Del Rio, Mysterio and all those other big guys are left for the Rumble.

I will say this though- if Rock costs Miz the match with the Rock Bottom and then he Rock Bottoms Cena and then Morriosn cashes in to become new champion and feuds with the Miz over the belt? Oh hell yes. The only problem with that though is that it's another MITB that goes without a clean cash in.

 

[The Boss]

The question shouldn't be "who's above the belt" it should be "have WWE titles become so meaningless that there is little point in holding them?" There was a time when only the best wrestlers got to hold the World title. And for you to be champion meant that you had to be able to carry the company on your shoulders and promote the company and be able to fill the seats with screaming fans. You had to really be the best in everyone's eyes. Title changes were few and far between making it a major story when a champion went down. While everyone dreamed of being champion, most knew that it would never happen. It was a rare honor bestowed only on the elite.

Now a days the belts are meaningless props (at least in WWE) that don't really represent anything. Since the 90's The WWF/E has been playing hot potato with there titles so long that fans (and wrestlers) think that everyone is supposed to have a turn as champion. And they whine if they don't get it.

Remember when Ric Flair said, "To be the man, you have to beat the man."? Well even that's no longer true in WWE. Today you just have to have a briefcase and cover a champion that someone else beat up. And now they do it several times a year. world title changes without matches. Pathetic. This more than anything in my eyes has hurt the WWE titles. Probably beyond repair. In fact I thing MITB has made the TNA World title more prestigious.