Penalties for Saints Bounty Program Have Been Released

[jmt225]

Protect his players and coaches? The only person's ass he tried to cover was his own.

There's no way he ever thought a punishment this severe would ever come his way because of this.

As a general rule though, intentionally trying to injure someone for money is usually something I frown upon.

Understandable, but as Mike Golic has pointed out on his show plenty of times regarding this, it's a bit silly to feel that way when these guys are going to make the same hits whether money is involved or not. The money is simply a trophy, like a sticker on a football helmet in college.

What I don't understand is that Payton received basically the same suspension as Donte Stallworth after Stallworth pleaded guilty to DUI manslaughter. That doesn't sit well with me.

Oh, I can go on all day on guys who got off easy committing much harsher crimes and penalties.

At the end of the day, Payton is really getting suspended only because he lied to the principal (and because Williams isn't apart of the organization to take the brunt of the heat for this). That's basically it, and it's ridiculous.

 

[justinsayne]

At the end of the day, Payton is really getting suspended only because he lied to the principal (and because Williams isn't apart of the organization to take the brunt of the heat for this). That's basically it, and it's ridiculous.

Especially since Rothlisberger was suspended only 4 games for "allegedly" raping two women, yet Payton gets a year for lying. Lesson to be learned here: Lying is worse than rape.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Sean fucking Payton knew about the issues, got caught. THEN he continued to to allow the disgusting acts to continue. Finally he got caught again, and LIED about it.

Sorry, but the attempted crippling of people is fucking pathetic, and Sean Payton, and Gregg Williams should be banned from the NFL. This is worse then Pete Rose, SMU, PEDs, and every other major scandal directly involving the game.

Hell, they both should be prosecuted.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Gregg Williams and Jonathan Vilma (who both are known for running similar programs with their former teams) should be the guys taking all the heat since they're the ones who put this all together, not Payton. That's what bothers me. And I know someone is going to chime in with the "He was in charge so he deserves all the blame," to which I argue BS, just as I argued it when people wanted to cast all the blame on Paterno for Sandusky's actions. Like I said earlier... Payton is an offensive coach, pretty much exclusively. He handed that defense over to Williams, so he was the one really in charge. I believe if 3G was still in New Orleans that Payton wouldn't have gotten such a harsh punishment, but since we let go of that overrated scumbag, Gooddell felt the need to bring the hammer down on Payton, which is completely unfair.

That is an out and out lie. Never once has Jonathan Vilma been accused of, or found guilty of, any of this shit until Gregg Fucking Williams got involved.

And Payton isn't the Offensive coach. He's the HEAD FUCKING COACH. HEAD meaning he is IN CHARGE.

LOL.



Stormy, no one believes you, man. No one.

Anyone who read a single post of mine regarding fines/injuries thanks to illegal hits would, actually.

And if you truly think the Jets, JETS, defense doesn't go out there to injure their opponents... then you're a fucking ******. You don't think REX RYAN doesn't motivate his players to injure the opponents? Really? You don't think Bart Scott doesn't deliver every single hit he gives without the intention of tearing his opponent's head off? Shut the fuck up, man.

No, actually I would all but guarantee that they don't. And if they did and got told to stop, they would. If they didn't, then they would all get the same punishment, which they would fucking deserve.

And Rex Ryan isn't a fucking ******. He may be loud (some would say obnoxious), but he's not doing stupid shit like that.

Also, Vilma came from the Jets, and Vilma played a big part in running the "bounty system" here and got in trouble for doing something similar when he was at the U. He obviously did something with the Jets, too, and I'm sure some of those players that were there when he was still play with them.

No, he obviously DIDN'T do anything similar with the Jets. They did it in college because they weren't being paid. He was being paid, so there was no reason to do it.

I love how you are saying that he obviously did something, when there is virtually no evidence of it being done.

And they ditched Vilma, so at the absolute worst, you can say that they found out he was a douche, and got rid of the problem.

 

[JamJam]

Man, lots of gambling has been coming outta sports. First the NBA with Donaghy's ref calling and now this, c'mon man!

 

[jmt225]

That is an out and out lie. Never once has Jonathan Vilma been accused of, or found guilty of, any of this shit until Gregg Fucking Williams got involved.

Lie, huh? Read this:

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=ys-jonathan_vilma_allegations

Come on, man. Why would I lie? If you never heard about it, you could have at least done a quick google search to see if whether or not I was spewing bullshit.

Anyone who read a single post of mine regarding fines/injuries thanks to illegal hits would, actually.

I actually did a search to see if you called out former Jets coach Sal Alosi for the tripping incident he pulled against Miami, and I was not surprised to see that you did not go on a rampage about that. No, the only thing I read from you on it, here, was that you bitched that the Carolina Panthers didn't get penalized for pulling something similar. I'm sure, however, if that had been any other team, in that NFL Week LD you would have gone on one of your typical Stormy rants about him and the organization, but since it was the Jets, I didn't see you even address it.

 

[Slyfox696]

But if Johnny admitted or got caught to doing the same thing and still didn't receive punishment, then yeah... it's not fair.

But that still doesn't change what YOU did, and doesn't change the fact YOU deserve to be punished.

If the Saints didn't want to be punished, they shouldn't have condoned a program whose stated intent was to hurt people, to potentially ruin their livelihoods. Are you really saying everyone involved shouldn't be hit with severe punishment? They were literally trying to ruin people's lives. There is no need for that at all.

The people associated with this received what they deserved. And hopefully, it will stop this nonsense from ever happening anywhere else again.

I wouldn't argue a 4-6 game suspension (though I wouldn't agree with it), but suspending a coach a full year for something his assistant was in control of is too harsh, period. Yeah, he made a mistake of not taking it seriously (Payton doesn't even really have anything to do with the defense), but he didn't deserve a full year suspension. I don't see how anyone could think so.

Because no rational person believes that Payton didn't know. Saints fans aren't objective, but if I told you Bill Belicheck didn't know anything about Spygate, would you believe that? Of course not. No one believes Payton didn't know about this, and as the head coach, he had the power to stop it immediately. He chose trying to win instead.

He deserves the punishment. And Williams will get much more. I'm guessing he'll never coach in the NFL again.

Especially since Rothlisberger was suspended only 4 games for "allegedly" raping two women, yet Payton gets a year for lying. Lesson to be learned here: Lying is worse than rape.

Actually the lesson is about not having thousands of documents which prove your guilt.

 

[Davi323]

The Saints were warned. Had they ended the bounty program then, we never would have heard about any of this. It is only because the New Orleans Saints deliberately chose to ignore NFL rules that this came to light.

Sean Payton knew about the bounty program. The Saints were previously warned about it, it is completely illogical to believe that the team was warned, but somehow the head coach was in the bathroom at the time, stepped out of the meeting room or whatever. C'mon. Of course he knew about it.

Payton knew it was against NFL rules as well. These kinds of things are covered every offseason, by every team in the NFL to ensure that the players know the rules. There is absolutely no way that Sean Payton didn't know it was against NFL rules to have a bounty program.

Sean Payton further knew that it was not only known by his coaching staff, but that his defensive coordinator was ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING in the bounty program. Players engaging in it by themselves is one thing. It would still be against the rules, but I think it would be generally far less frowned upon than this. This wasn't just the players, this was the coaching staff not only turning a blind eye, but encouraging it. That is a huge no-no. The coaching staff participating in what they all knew was a very illegal activity despite being warned previously is why the hammer fell. Their actions showed a complete disrespect for NFL rules. Bounty programs are illegal. The NFL also bans teams from providing money to their players outside of their contracts. The Saints organization blatantly disregarded NFL rules.

If it were just the players, AND this was their first time being notified by the NFL about a bounty program, maybe the coaching staff, including Sean Payton could get away with the "I didn't know" defense. But, that excuse simply doesn't fly in their situation. It wasn't just the players, and it wasn't their first time being warned. If this were a college program, this kind of thing could result in a university getting the death penalty for their football program. This really is a much bigger deal than Saints fans want to acknowledge.

 

[jmt225]

But that still doesn't change what YOU did, and doesn't change the fact YOU deserve to be punished.

If the Saints didn't want to be punished, they shouldn't have condoned a program whose stated intent was to hurt people, to potentially ruin their livelihoods. Are you really saying everyone involved shouldn't be hit with severe punishment? They were literally trying to ruin people's lives. There is no need for that at all.

I never once said that the Saints didn't deserve to be punished. When the news first broke I said they deserved to be punished. But this harshly? Absolutely no way.

The people associated with this received what they deserved. And hopefully, it will stop this nonsense from ever happening anywhere else again.

In football, your objective on defense is to hit the other guy as hard as you can. In high school and college, if you make a big play (including big hits that knock players out of the game), you get a cool little sticker on your helmet. In the pros, you get a little side cash as a trophy. It has always been around, and it will continue to be. Only now, teams will make sure to cover it up better.

Because no rational person believes that Payton didn't know. Saints fans aren't objective, but if I told you Bill Belicheck didn't know anything about Spygate, would you believe that? Of course not. No one believes Payton didn't know about this, and as the head coach, he had the power to stop it immediately. He chose trying to win instead.

He deserves the punishment. And Williams will get much more. I'm guessing he'll never coach in the NFL again.

Actually the lesson is about not having thousands of documents which prove your guilt.

I know Sean Payton knew about it, and I said he was guilty of making the assumption that it wasn't a big deal and turning a blind eye to it. But to get a full year suspension over that? Well, first of all, he didn't get it for that... he got it for lying about it and also because Gregg Williams wasn't here to get punished and they had to drop the hammer on somebody, so let's get that straight.

But a year suspension is too harsh; there's nothing anyone could say that could possibly convince me otherwise. Like mentioned, a player got a year suspension for taking another life, so basically what the NFL is saying is that Sean Payton's "crime" was equivalent to killing someone. Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

Moreover, with this punishment, he's just not hurting Sean Payton and the Saints... but he's hurting the fans as well. What did Saints fans do to deserve this? We love Sean Payton, and we understand he deserves to be punished, but doing so for a full year just leaves a bad taste in all the fans mouths, especially when you consider that this has been going on forever, and no one came close to ever receiving this kind of punishment. The Saints were singled out and used as a scape goat, and it just isn't fair to the fans who support that organization and the league as a whole.

 

[Davi323]

If the Saints had been so concerned about their fans, and what possible punishments might do to them if they got caught, they would have ended the bounty program when instructed to by the NFL. The Saints don't care about the fans. Their actions prove that. If they cared about the fans, they wouldn't have maintained a program that they knew was going to get them in trouble, that they knew would have consequences. Saints fans did nothing to deserve anything...unfortunately for you, you are collateral damage, caused by the deliberate violations of NFL rules by the team you choose to support. The NFL didn't do this to the fans, the New Orleans Saints, Gregg Williams, Sean Payton, and those players who participated in the illegal bounty program did.

 

[DirtyD79]

I can't wait until it comes down to the players. Expect to see Vilma and his cohorts playing The Nuremburg Defense "I was only following orders."

 

[Stormtrooper]

Lie, huh? Read this:

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=ys-jonathan_vilma_allegations

Come on, man. Why would I lie? If you never heard about it, you could have at least done a quick google search to see if whether or not I was spewing bullshit.

So again, you have no proof, evidence, or anything that says he did it with the Jets. Yet you say that he definitely did. Proof?

Oh yeah, you have none. You are just trying to bring other teams down with you whether they deserve it or not, because you're a whiny little bitch that refuses to admit that his team is a fucking joke.

I actually did a search to see if you called out former Jets coach Sal Alosi for the tripping incident he pulled against Miami, and I was not surprised to see that you did not go on a rampage about that. No, the only thing I read from you on it, here, was that you bitched that the Carolina Panthers didn't get penalized for pulling something similar. I'm sure, however, if that had been any other team, in that NFL Week LD you would have gone on one of your typical Stormy rants about him and the organization, but since it was the Jets, I didn't see you even address it.

1. No need to call the guy out. He immediately copped to his crime, and was fairly punished. The man was fined a large portion of his salary, suspended for the remained of the season, then terminated.
2. I called the act indefensible. Is that calling the guy out? It's pretty close. I never once tried to defend the action. Because there isn't one.
3. You did a quick search. If you did a more thorough search (I don't know, maybe actually looking at posts in the sports bar from the day of the incident), you would notice there was more posts.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=2667459&postcount=4795

I called it sad, and pretty much called the punishment pretty perfectly (fine, suspension, fired).

Still, it's not nearly as bad as bounties for injuring players, getting caught, continuing to do it while laughing in the leagues face, then getting caught again and lying about it after the league has proof.

 

[justinsayne]

No, he obviously DIDN'T do anything similar with the Jets. They did it in college because they weren't being paid. He was being paid, so there was no reason to do it.

I love how you are saying that he obviously did something, when there is virtually no evidence of it being done.

And they ditched Vilma, so at the absolute worst, you can say that they found out he was a douche, and got rid of the problem.

Just because he didn't get caught while a Jet doesn't mean he didn't do the same thing while a Jet. Vilma has a history of organizing "Bounty Programs" & I can assure you that the Saints are hardly the first team to ever set up a program like this, it's been done for decades in the NFL, hell Buddy Ryan, the father of that guy Rex, who happens to be your head coach, was a huge part of two infamous games called the bounty bowl, & the bounty bowl 2, the man put a bounty on Dallas 150 lb. kicker at the time.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Just because he didn't get caught while a Jet doesn't mean he didn't do the same thing while a Jet. Vilma has a history of organizing "Bounty Programs" & I can assure you that the Saints are hardly the first team to ever set up a program like this, it's been done for decades in the NFL, hell Buddy Ryan, the father of that guy Rex, who happens to be your head coach, was a huge part of two infamous games called the bounty bowl, & the bounty bowl 2, the man put a bounty on Dallas 150 lb. kicker at the time.

So, just like I said, there's not a single shred of evidence to any wrongdoing with the Jets. Yeah Vilma may have been involved in Miami (where he wasn't being paid for his services), and he did stuff with the Saints (where a program was in place already). None of that comes back to the Jets.

And last time I check Red Ryan is not Buddy Ryan. And what Buddy Ryan did 20 years ago is not indicative of what Rex Ryan does today.

And are the Saints the first team to do this? No. Are they the only team to get caught doing it, then continue to do it anyway, all the while the league is working to increase player safety and the league is being sued by 50 former players because they didn't look out for player safety? Yeah.

 

[Slyfox696]

I never once said that the Saints didn't deserve to be punished. When the news first broke I said they deserved to be punished. But this harshly? Absolutely no way.

The punishment fits the crime.

It deters any future bounty programs, and when you're talking about trying to maim someone, to possibly end their career, the punishment should be severe.

In football, your objective on defense is to hit the other guy as hard as you can.

That's not true at all. Your objective on defense is to stop the other team from scoring. You can tackle people without trying to injure them. Surely you've played backyard football, was your intention to go out there and hit someone so hard it caused an injury? Did you still tackle people?

It's a load of BS that you can't tackle someone without trying to kill them.

I know Sean Payton knew about it, and I said he was guilty of making the assumption that it wasn't a big deal and turning a blind eye to it. But to get a full year suspension over that? Well, first of all, he didn't get it for that... he got it for lying about it

Actually, it was for both. It was for having the program, not ending the program when he found out about it, and then for lying about the program.

and also because Gregg Williams wasn't here to get punished and they had to drop the hammer on somebody, so let's get that straight.

I don't think that had anything to do with it. Gregg Williams will likely never coach in the NFL again. The NFL dropped the hammer on him. As far as the Saints go, if they wanted to drop the hammer on the Saints, they would have done more than a couple of second round picks and a $500,000 fine.

Payton's discipline was directly proportional to his involvement. He didn't receive "extra" punishment.

But a year suspension is too harsh

How so? If a player gets busted twice for failing a drug test (which includes things like taking a diuretic), he serves a year suspension. Are you telling me a coach condoning a program which actively rewards injuring people is less offensive than taking a diuretic twice?

Like mentioned, a player got a year suspension for taking another life

Which happened outside of football. He didn't take someone's life on the football field, the NFL punished him for conduct "off the clock".

so basically what the NFL is saying is that Sean Payton's "crime" was equivalent to killing someone. Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

No, what's ridiculous is you using that as the comparison, when they are COMPLETELY different situations.

One was "off the clock" and on his own time, and not at all related to the NFL. The other was on the clock, in the NFL, and intended to directly impact games and other NFL employees. Completely different situations, and you know this.

A far better example is the drug policy example I gave you. Surely you would agree a coach condoning the injuring of other players is as bad as two failed drug tests.

Moreover, with this punishment, he's just not hurting Sean Payton and the Saints... but he's hurting the fans as well.

No, it's not.

The fans can sell their tickets, they can choose not to purchase them, they can choose to not watch games...they are not hurting the fans at all.

What did Saints fans do to deserve this?

Nothing, but your beef isn't with the NFL, it's with those individuals who committed these despicable actions. It's akin to me blaming the police when they arrest you for robbing a bank.

"How DARE you arrest jmt and throw him in jail!? I know he broke the law, but didn't you think how that would affect me as an Administrator on a wrestling forum to lose one of my G-Mods? Damn you, police, damn you!"

Seems kind of silly when you look at it like that, doesn't it?

We love Sean Payton, and we understand he deserves to be punished, but doing so for a full year just leaves a bad taste in all the fans mouths, especially when you consider that this has been going on forever, and no one came close to ever receiving this kind of punishment.

But I bet they will in the future.

The Saints were singled out and used as a scape goat

No they weren't. Someone blew the whistle on the operation, and the Saints were made an example of. They are not a scape goat, because they actually committed the deeds they are being punished for.

and it just isn't fair to the fans who support that organization and the league as a whole.

As a Bret Favre fan, knowing that the Saints were trying to injure one of my favorite players of all time, simply because he was doing his job...I can tell you the punishment is MORE than fair. In fact, I still say the Saints as a team were not fined nearly enough money.

 

[jmt225]

So again, you have no proof, evidence, or anything that says he did it with the Jets. Yet you say that he definitely did. Proof?

Oh yeah, you have none. You are just trying to bring other teams down with you whether they deserve it or not, because you're a whiny little bitch that refuses to admit that his team is a fucking joke.

You called me a liar when I said Vilma had a history of this at the U (which you then try to justify in your post to Justin by saying he didn't get paid in college, which I guess then makes it okay... lol, you hypocrite), so instead of admitting you were wrong, you start bitching about another part of my previous post. Lol... you really are a joke, man.

The punishment fits the crime.

Sly, I want you to just try and understand my point of view on this as a fan of the Saints. Don't just assume though that just because I'm a fan of the organization means that I will refuse to look at this "unbiasedly." I was never a big fan of Joe Paterno, Michael Vick, and Ben Roethlisberger, yet I was still vocal on how I felt they all got raw deals.

Anyways, other teams have committed this crime. They were caught. They admitted to it. The Saints are being made an example of, and as a fan that's a hard pill to swallow. Yes, it doesn't take away from the fact that the Saints broke a rule and deserve to be punished, but you still have to understand why the fact that other teams have gone unpunished for committing the exact same crime for years and years makes this all completely unfair.

Moreover, "player safety" isn't why they're getting a harsh punishment. It's because they lied about it. Roger Goodell basically said so in his statement release. Don't you find it hypocritical to say that player safety is his #1 concern, yet in the same breath say one of the main reasons he came down on the Saints so hard is because they lied?

And let's face it, Goodell has his own agenda here, and it has nothing to do with player safety. It has to do with $$$. This article from the Washington Post can explain what I'm trying to say better than I can. Here are some excerpts from it:

Really, when does the NFL get what it has coming: a long, hard look at how one man and one team became scapegoats for this car-accident-in-pads-and-helmet league?

If Goodell can walk that fine line between celebrating the hard-hitters and condemning the headhunters, he can make more money for his owners behind the cloak of caring deeply for his players.

The NFL today cannot stomach its skill players being taken out for money. Not for business reasons, not for safety reasons, not for the future of the game. Because for all the grandstanding about safety-first and protecting the players, Goodell knows more than anyone: If fewer players go down, the more an 18-game season is possible. The profit windfall grows, the lawsuits stop and everybody is happy.

If Goodell can walk that fine line between celebrating the hard-hitters and condemning the headhunters, he can make more money for his owners behind the cloak of caring deeply for his players.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...e-far-enough/2012/03/21/gIQAn2bgSS_story.html

You see, the hypocrisy of it all is what makes this so hard to stomach. Goodell did not make this punishment for all the things people in this thread are saying... he's doing it because A) he took it personally that he was "lied" to and B) because the lawsuits former players are bringing against the league. And as a personal assumption, I feel Goodell is punishing Payton so harshly because Williams isn't here anymore. He said in his own statement about Payton, "if he wasn't aware, then he should've been aware." So, basically there's no clear cut evidence that Payton was apart of this for him to say that, right? I mean, everyone knows Payton knew about it, just as everyone knows Belichick taped more than just that one game against Miami, but if there's no clear cut evidence, then how can you suspend him that harshly?

The fact of the matter is, Goodell is punishing Saints and their fans because of A and B in that above paragraph, not because Payton was apart of something that broke the rules. Goodell would have gotten his message across with a 4-6 game suspension, but instead he took a power trip and handed the hardest punishment possible outside of banning them from the league. It's just not right.

I just have a hard time believing that if there was some sort of panel or something like that that this penalty would have been this severe for Sean Payton. I mean, NO ONE saw this coming. Show me one person who thought Payton was going to be suspended a full year. No one thought that because that punishment for something like this is completely ridiculous, especially with what has come out about this bounty crap being a regular thing all around the league for years.

That's not true at all. Your objective on defense is to stop the other team from scoring. You can tackle people without trying to injure them. Surely you've played backyard football, was your intention to go out there and hit someone so hard it caused an injury? Did you still tackle people?

It's a load of BS that you can't tackle someone without trying to kill them.

There's a difference between playing ball in the backyard with regular Joe Blows and in the NFL. The NFL has some of the greatest athletes walking this Earth, and if you don't come at them full force, you will not be able to take them down. That's simply a fact.

As a Bret Favre fan, knowing that the Saints were trying to injure one of my favorite players of all time, simply because he was doing his job...I can tell you the punishment is MORE than fair. In fact, I still say the Saints as a team were not fined nearly enough money.

Did you see Brett Favre's statement about all this?

I'm not pissed. It's football. I don't think anything less of those guys. Said or unsaid, guys do it anyway. If they can drill you and get you out, they will.

It's apart of the game, Sly. Always has been, always will be.

 

[Slyfox696]

Anyways, other teams have committed this crime. They were caught. They admitted to it. The Saints are being made an example of, and as a fan that's a hard pill to swallow.

And that's completely understandable.

Yes, it doesn't take away from the fact that the Saints broke a rule and deserve to be punished, but you still have to understand why the fact that other teams have gone unpunished for committing the exact same crime for years and years makes this all completely unfair.

I cannot get on board with the word "unfair". Perhaps the better word is "inconsistent".

Moreover, "player safety" isn't why they're getting a harsh punishment. It's because they lied about it. Roger Goodell basically said so in his statement release. Don't you find it hypocritical to say that player safety is his #1 concern, yet in the same breath say one of the main reasons he came down on the Saints so hard is because they lied?

It's both.

If Goodell asked Sean Payton to think of a number between 1 and 10, and Payton then lied about which number he was thinking of, do you think Goodell would have cared? The lying/cover up was certainly an important factor in severity of the punishment, but only because the offense was worthy of punishment in the first place.

And let's face it, Goodell has his own agenda here, and it has nothing to do with player safety. It has to do with $$$.

Of course Goodell has an agenda, he's a businessman. And his business makes more money if his employees are healthy, no one disputes that.

I'm not trying to say Goodell is looking out for player safety because he's best friends with all of these guys and invites them over for a couple of beers every Tuesday night. But Goodell is still very concerned about player safety, regardless of the reason why. It just so happens that player safety makes money. So he's concerned about player safety.

Though I cannot believe that any human being can be so dispassionate about another human to not care whether or not the other person is healthy or not.

You see, the hypocrisy of it all is what makes this so hard to stomach.

I'm not seeing the hypocrisy.

The fact of the matter is, Goodell is punishing Saints and their fans

No, Goodell is punishing Payton, Williams, the GM and the owner. He's not punishing the team, and he's not punishing the fans. If the punishment handed to those aforementioned people impacts the Saints ability to win games, then it's the fault of those guys, not Goodell.

Goodell would have gotten his message across with a 4-6 game suspension

Not nearly as well as he has now. This story broke days ago and it's still being discussed. Goodell got his point over far better with a year suspension than he would have with a 4 game suspension.

I just have a hard time believing that if there was some sort of panel or something like that that this penalty would have been this severe for Sean Payton. I mean, NO ONE saw this coming. Show me one person who thought Payton was going to be suspended a full year.

I agree, no one predicted this. But that doesn't mean it wasn't an appropriate punishment.

Payton ruled over a team which was paying members to try and hurt people, to possibly ruin their livelihoods. Maybe even hurt someone so bad it causes brain damage. There is no way in hell that should not be grounds for serious repercussions.

There's a difference between playing ball in the backyard with regular Joe Blows and in the NFL. The NFL has some of the greatest athletes walking this Earth, and if you don't come at them full force, you will not be able to take them down. That's simply a fact.

No, that's hyperbole. You see guys make arm tackles, shoestring tackles, forced out of bounds, etc. all the time in the NFL. Your statement is simply untrue.

 

[CH David]

Question. Is it cool for players to fine each other in meetings and what not, and then pay out of that for a big, clean (not borderline) hit, a great catch on the offensive side, or a pick six on defense?

I ask based on this article. Little over two weeks old.

http://www.csnchicago.com/03/06/12/.../landing_bears.html?blockID=664172&feedID=626

 

[hatehabsforever]

Question. Is it cool for players to fine each other in meetings and what not, and then pay out of that for a big, clean (not borderline) hit, a great catch on the offensive side, or a pick six on defense?

I ask based on this article. Little over two weeks old.

http://www.csnchicago.com/03/06/12/.../landing_bears.html?blockID=664172&feedID=626

In my opinion, that's perfectly acceptable. I have absolutely no problem with an incentive program which rewards such things as tackles, interceptions, sacks, knocking the QB down, etc., provided it's within the confines of the rules of the games. But there's an astronomical difference between an incentive program which rewards clean physical play, as opposed to a bounty program which rewards a deliberate attempt to injure, especially when it is team sanctioned, and even more so, when the offending team has previously received warnings about it.

You gotta love sports. It's the only thing which elicits such passion and causes someone like jmt, one of the best and most logical posters on the entire forums, to abandon such logic and fight a losing battle in defense of his team.

 

[Davi323]

Question. Is it cool for players to fine each other in meetings and what not, and then pay out of that for a big, clean (not borderline) hit, a great catch on the offensive side, or a pick six on defense?

I ask based on this article. Little over two weeks old.

http://www.csnchicago.com/03/06/12/.../landing_bears.html?blockID=664172&feedID=626

Yes...there is a huge difference. Great catches, pick sixes, etc are just part of the normal play of the game. They are still within what can be considered good sportsmanship. In baseball, it would be the difference between a pitcher striking someone out (good) and intentionally head hunting (bad). One is a natural part of an athlete doing their job, one is just cheap ass bullshit that should have no part of the game. Bounties to cause deliberate injuries are just cheap ass bullshit.

HOWEVER if the players are receiving any money from outside sources, it has some of the same problems the bounties do...it would circumvent the salary cap, by paying players outside of their NFL contracts. If it's just the players contributing in with their own money, rewarding each other for good play, it's fine. If it's not just their money, and the cash is coming from elsewhere, I would have an issue with it, as that too would certainly be a violation of NFL rules.

 

[shattered dreams]

I just don't buy that Payton for a full season was as justified as people want to make it out to be. They deserved to be significantly punished. However, anyone that thinks defenders aren't trying to injure other players is naive. They just do it for "free" because it is what they are paid to do. The Saints were stupid about it but this wasn't as major of an issue as this punishment suggests even if they lied about it and deliberately ignored warnings. I don't see why Payton's suspension should have been more than 8 games. All the others so far I think are reasonable but that is likely to change once they get to the players. The Saints only have themselves to blame but I can't fault anyone that looks at the results and can't help but wonder how much some aspects beyond what they actually did wrong factored into the decision.