Penalties for Saints Bounty Program Have Been Released
- Thread starter Fizzy
- Start date
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
To be fair, I do not know the maximum fine allowed for a team, for such a violation.
Also, the owner (the man paying the fine) could be one of the few people int he organization that didn't know it was going on.
Chances are it would have been a 1st round pick, but they already traded their 2012 pick to New England last year, so 2 seconds it was.
I feel there is no penalty that is too severe for them. The whole organization was in on it. They could have gone as far as the NCAA's so called Death Penalty to the organization and it wouldn't be too severe.
PlayTheGame
The Cerebral Assassin
LOL @ the idiots who thought Gregg Williams couldn't be touched, they obviously don't understand how this shit works in sports. Really big punishments, they sure weren't kidding around when they said they wanted to make a precedent out of this. I don't think anyone will wanna mention the word "bounty" in the NFL for a while after this mess.
Now the question becomes: will this cripple the Saints' chances this season? I would say so- with a stacked NFC, I think it may be safe to say now that they won't be able to get it done, at least this season, with all the handicaps they have in place: lost draft picks this year, no Payton, etc.
Now the question becomes: will this cripple the Saints' chances this season? I would say so- with a stacked NFC, I think it may be safe to say now that they won't be able to get it done, at least this season, with all the handicaps they have in place: lost draft picks this year, no Payton, etc.
The thing that everyone has to keep in mind is that the Saints were previously warned to knock it off. Had they done that, they would have gotten off without any penalties at all.
A poster on MLive (it's a Michigan based news website) had this to say, and I agree with him/her 100%.
This is essentially what the Saints did. They got caught, got let off on a warning, and then spit in the NFL's face and continued to do it, DESPITE being warned. They brought all of this on themselves.
A poster on MLive (it's a Michigan based news website) had this to say, and I agree with him/her 100%.
This is essentially what the Saints did. They got caught, got let off on a warning, and then spit in the NFL's face and continued to do it, DESPITE being warned. They brought all of this on themselves.
When the Saints go on to win the Super Bowl in their own stadium regardless of this horseshit, we'll see then who has the last laugh. The Patriots almost ran the table after their penalties (which wasn't anywhere near as severe as the Saints, even though what they did gave them a competitive edge over their opponents), and the Saints will do something very similar, except they won't fall short. Mark my words on that one.
And you guys saying that this is justified... give me a fucking break. Show me the hits. Show me the personal fouls. Show me the fucking injuries. If any severe injuries happened against the Saints the last 3 years, okay... fair argument. But no one, and I mean NO ONE, got seriously injured against the Saints. And the only truly dirty hit that I remember was the one on Favre when McCray hit him after he handed the ball off. Even as a Saints fans I thought that was a piece of shit move at the time, and I think so now. If he never wore a Saints uniform again after that, I would not have complained. But that's the only case I can think of, and I watched every single snap the Saints have taken the last few years.
Not to mention it has come out that the Bounty system has been around forever. Oh, and let us not forget that the NEW YORK GIANTS said that they aimed after Kyle Williams head because they knew he suffered a concession not long before the game. Where were there fucking penalties for that? Where were the 49ers penalties for admitting that they head hunted against the Saints, in a game where Pierre Thomas got knocked out of the game due to a head shot? Where were the Ravens penalties when they admitted to putting a bounty on Rashad Mendenhall (in which he was knocked out of the game) and Hines Ward? Somebody please answer those questions for me.
Nobody can justify this shit. The Saints were a scape goat and anyone who agrees they deserve this kind of punishment is either a piece of shit biased fan, or they simply just don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I truly hope nothing but the worst on Roger Goodell's professional career. Something's eventually going to come up and bite him square on the fucking ass, and I cannot wait for that day to come.
And you guys saying that this is justified... give me a fucking break. Show me the hits. Show me the personal fouls. Show me the fucking injuries. If any severe injuries happened against the Saints the last 3 years, okay... fair argument. But no one, and I mean NO ONE, got seriously injured against the Saints. And the only truly dirty hit that I remember was the one on Favre when McCray hit him after he handed the ball off. Even as a Saints fans I thought that was a piece of shit move at the time, and I think so now. If he never wore a Saints uniform again after that, I would not have complained. But that's the only case I can think of, and I watched every single snap the Saints have taken the last few years.
Not to mention it has come out that the Bounty system has been around forever. Oh, and let us not forget that the NEW YORK GIANTS said that they aimed after Kyle Williams head because they knew he suffered a concession not long before the game. Where were there fucking penalties for that? Where were the 49ers penalties for admitting that they head hunted against the Saints, in a game where Pierre Thomas got knocked out of the game due to a head shot? Where were the Ravens penalties when they admitted to putting a bounty on Rashad Mendenhall (in which he was knocked out of the game) and Hines Ward? Somebody please answer those questions for me.
Nobody can justify this shit. The Saints were a scape goat and anyone who agrees they deserve this kind of punishment is either a piece of shit biased fan, or they simply just don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I truly hope nothing but the worst on Roger Goodell's professional career. Something's eventually going to come up and bite him square on the fucking ass, and I cannot wait for that day to come.
Poop Master Flex
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Even if they were a scapegoat it doesn't change the fact that what they did is bullshit and they deserved to get punished.
Also there's a difference head hunting players and giving players incentive to head hunt. I don't recall the Giants giving bonuses for head hunting Kyle Williams.
The Saints were paying their team to injure players, whether anyone actually got injured is irrelevant they still put the bounty on to do it.
It sounds like you are letting your love for the Saints get in the way of what they did.
Understand I think anyone who has ever head hunted a player should be severely punished, I certainly don't condone the Giants head hunting Kyle Williams but I don't condone the Saints either. But like you said if the Saints win it all next season it won't matter.
I wouldn't say they were a scapegoat as much as they were the precedent set by Goodell to let teams know - 'we hear anymore about this, this is what you'll get'. Rules are rules. Just because there were other teams doing it doesn't excuse the Saints for running it for 3 years, with both the coach and GM knowing about it and not stopping it. Goodells trying to clean up the game as much as possible, so it was no doubt that they were going to get hit hard.
I know you're pissed because you're a Saints fan, but if it was some team like the Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs, etc. I don't think you'd be as pissed at Goodell. He had to do what was best to keep his leagues image a bit clean, and the Saints don't have anyone to blame but themselves for not only allowing this to happen, but not stopping it after the league told them to.
Goodell's argument for the severe punishment for Payton was that he was the one in charge of the coaches and he should know what is happening on his football team. I would argue the same logic applies to the owner.
The real reason, in my mind, the fine is so light is because you don't want to piss off one of the people who determine whether or not you keep your job.
I'm pretty certain Bill Belicheck was still coaching that year...
Using this theory, if I tell people I'm going to take a loaded gun onto an airplane and shoot every mother fucker I see, but the gun jams when I take my first shot, there's no way I should spend the rest of my life in jail because I failed what I intended to do.
I don't think you're looking at this objectively, but rather as a fan.
Sure.
What other teams did doesn't have any effect on what YOUR team did. This is the same thing my 4th and 5th grade students try to argue all the time, "but Johnny did it too!". That doesn't change the fact YOU were in the wrong when you did it.
No offense, but how can you say that? The only people who really have been punished are the ones who orchestrated it and helped cover it up. You lost two second round draft picks? Big freakin' whoop. It cost your owner $500,000? He'll have that covered after the second game he's not paying Sean Payton.
They didn't levy postseason bans, or cut roster spots, or lower the salary cap. Aside from punishing the individuals responsible, the league did nothing to hurt the team's chances of winning games. I think the punishment is perfectly justified.
They weren't a scape goat, they were made an example of. There's a difference.
Pretty certain that statement is untrue.
As is that one.
Read this:
http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/01/did-giants-strategically-concuss-kyle-williams.html
So, now will someone please explain to me how this penalty is justified when the Giants didn't receive any punishment whatsoever?
http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/01/did-giants-strategically-concuss-kyle-williams.html
So, now will someone please explain to me how this penalty is justified when the Giants didn't receive any punishment whatsoever?
Again, what happens to someone else doesn't change the fact that what you did was wrong. If there was a team memo that said to go after the 49ers player, then I'm sure the league will address it. But whether they do or not doesn't change how reprehensible the Saints actions are.
What happens to Johnny has no impact on what happens to Suzie.
Poop Master Flex
Mid-Card Championship Winner
No one is justifying what the Giants did but you can't say "well the Giants did it" as a good argument.
Using logic like that is justifyng the bullshit the Saints did. The Giants should have gotten punished but didn't, the Saints should have gotten punished and did. It may be a bad call yeah but it in no way justifies what the Saints did and the Saints deserved to be punished for what they did.
Sports aren't always fair and a big NFL fan like you should know that. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce the way you want it to, deal with it and move on.
But if Johnny admitted or got caught to doing the same thing and still didn't receive punishment, then yeah... it's not fair.
I wouldn't argue a 4-6 game suspension (though I wouldn't agree with it), but suspending a coach a full year for something his assistant was in control of is too harsh, period. Yeah, he made a mistake of not taking it seriously (Payton doesn't even really have anything to do with the defense), but he didn't deserve a full year suspension. I don't see how anyone could think so.
Of course I wouldn't be "pissed," but I can say 100% surely that I wouldn't agree with suspending the head coach for a full year over something like this. And if this were the Lions and not the Saints, you'd be as pissed as I am.
And Stormy, it's funny how fucking gun-ho you are about all this, when everyone here knows that if this were the Jets you'd be so heated up you'd probably end up being banned for some of the flames you'd throw at people trying to justify this.
Pissed was a poor word choice, vocal is more of what I was looking for.
I agree I'd be pissed with the punishment at first, but also with the fact that the guys in charge didn't do shit to stop it. If Schwartz/Mayhew got caught doing something like this, I'd say that they'd get what's coming to them. I'm a fan, but I'd try to be objective about it.
The coverup is usually worse than the act, and this looks like one of those cases.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
You are missing the key point here.
The Saints got caught, were told to cease the illegal operations, and the Saints continued doing it, all the while laughing in the face of Goodell and the NFL.
Payton got suspended for lying to Goodell and continuing the do the mis-deeds after being told to stop. Just doing the deed is bad enough, but getting caught, being told to stop, then doing it again makes any punishment too light.
This is just as bad, if not worse, then SMU back in the 80's. SMU at least didn't try to cause injury to players. SMU was given the Death Penalty. Be lucky you still have a New Orleans Saints.
Of course the Jets aren't stupid enough to do shit like this. But if they were, then I would want the Jets to fire the whole group. I'd call for the head coach to be fired, the coordinator to be banned from the league, and whatever players guilty to be punished as well. Take away 2 first round picks.
Have you ever read a singly fucking post of mine? I'm the only person on this fucking forum that actually gives a shit about the safety of players in the NFL, and you're telling me that I'm in favor of this shit? Are you fucking stupid or something? Go fuck yourself, you don't know me at all.
One Punch Doug Crashin
I AM INVINSIBLE!
VINTAGE STORMTROOPER!
Yes, the Saints got caught. Fine them, take draft picks away... but why suspend Payton for a full year?
The thing is, all Payton is guilty of is an assumption that this wasn't a big deal, and since it has come out that this sort of thing has been happening in the league for countless years now, it's understandable why he paid no notice to it.
Gregg Williams and Jonathan Vilma (who both are known for running similar programs with their former teams) should be the guys taking all the heat since they're the ones who put this all together, not Payton. That's what bothers me. And I know someone is going to chime in with the "He was in charge so he deserves all the blame," to which I argue BS, just as I argued it when people wanted to cast all the blame on Paterno for Sandusky's actions. Like I said earlier... Payton is an offensive coach, pretty much exclusively. He handed that defense over to Williams, so he was the one really in charge. I believe if 3G was still in New Orleans that Payton wouldn't have gotten such a harsh punishment, but since we let go of that overrated scumbag, Gooddell felt the need to bring the hammer down on Payton, which is completely unfair.
LOL.
Stormy, no one believes you, man. No one. And if you truly think the Jets, JETS, defense doesn't go out there to injure their opponents... then you're a fucking ******. You don't think REX RYAN doesn't motivate his players to injure the opponents? Really? You don't think Bart Scott doesn't deliver every single hit he gives without the intention of tearing his opponent's head off? Shut the fuck up, man.
Also, Vilma came from the Jets, and Vilma played a big part in running the "bounty system" here and got in trouble for doing something similar when he was at the U. He obviously did something with the Jets, too, and I'm sure some of those players that were there when he was still play with them.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
... Then why did he lie about it? Why didn't he just come clean? It worked for Belichick.
There's a difference between "Get out and there and rip their fucking heads off!!!" and "If you take Kurt Warner out of the game, we will pay you $3,000 and if you hobble him, we'll pay you $1,500.." There's a difference between playing hard and intentionally trying to affect another person's livelihood.
Good luck trying to accomplish that next year. Especially with a defense that was completely fucking shitty last year despite doing the heinous, disgusting bullshit that defensive staff was doing behind the scenes
Anyway whats most ridiculous is that the Saints only lost two freaking second round picks. Unbelievable. They should have lost next year's first. I mean, seriously, thats just poor right there. Stripping them of their second round picks wasn't enough. They can still sign any free agents they so please in compliance with the salary cap. I think they just signed an excellent run stuffing defensive lineman today.
It could've been worse Saints fans
Maybe to protect his players and coaches? All the heat was on Belichick... nobody else was at risk. But here, Payton felt the need to protect his players and assistant coaches, which I'm sure you can understand and respect. It's two completely different situations.
Lol... how much is $3000 to a professional football player. Really? And that was a playoff game where the Saints would have played that way without any extra initiative anyway.
And again... Payton wasn't the one instructing them or paying them to do that. It was Williams and Vilma, and they deserve all the heat if you ask me.
I know, but what I'm saying is that if the Saints had resigned him this offseason, then he would have gotten that punishment here and because of it, I believe Payton's punishment wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe. But since Williams is no longer here, Gooddell felt the need to punish the Saints as harshly as he could.
We now have one of the best Defensive Coordinator's in the league (plus the signing of Brodrick Bunkley, most likely we'll sign a big named LB in the next few of days, and we still have 6 draft picks), and Carmichael (our OC) did just fine last year calling the offense when Payton broke his leg.
As long as we resign Drew Brees, the Saints will be just fine and most definitely a super bowl contender. We would have won the super bowl last year if it weren't for Gregg Williams incompetence, so with an improved team and coaching staff for next year, I'm very confident in the Saints, despite Payton's unjust suspension.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Protect his players and coaches? The only person's ass he tried to cover was his own.
3,000 was an arbitrary number, no idea what the exact amount was.
I'm not bagging on you for being upset. If this shit happened in KC, I'd be through the roof. And honestly, I don't really have any strong feelings about this situation.
As a general rule though, intentionally trying to injure someone for money is usually something I frown upon.
The Bearded One
Love is not admissable evidence.
What I don't understand is that Payton received basically the same suspension as Donte Stallworth after Stallworth pleaded guilty to DUI manslaughter. That doesn't sit well with me.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
That situation has always irked me. That motherfucker should be in prison.
The Bearded One
Love is not admissable evidence.
I somewhat agree. He reached a financial settlement with the family, and if that helped the family heal more than prison time for Stallworth, it's fine okay with me, too. If it were up to me, though, Stallworth would either still be in prison. At the very least, he would never play in the NFL again.