Paul Heyman's TNA

[Cereal Killer]

This thread is about TNA's current reality situation (read my thread Pro wrestling reality TV if ya don't get it) and Paul Heyman's plan for Impact Wrestling.

In my last thread I said that TNA is turning into more of a reality show with the AJ storyline and with the more reality-like format. This was meant to be Hogans monster idea for TNA like WWE had the Golden age and attitude era's.

Not a bad idea but do you think Heyman's idea for TNA would have worked better?

For those that don't know the idea(s) was:

1. Fire all over 40's
2. Make Carter more Aggressive
3. 1 Legend a year
4. Talent scout for 21 and 22 yr olds, train them, bring them to TNA and then they will be kicking ass before the age of 30.

So it's basically a youth movement. Do you think that is a better thing to do instead of the whole reality idea. They youth movement doesn't sound too bad and I think it probably would have been a better idea. The 1 legend could help pass the torch and then we would have a bunch of youngsters in TNA..
It would help and it's something new. With Heyman's other ideas coming into the mix, it would be even better.

Many say ECW went down the bin because of him not sharing control, working 24/7, no network and financial difficulties. If he came to TNA, he would have enough money, wouldn't have to worry about the networks and if it does get too much on him, he would have enough authorities helping him.

It's just a shame Dixie didn't accept because she didn't want to fire the legends which is a major issue in TNA. Her not firing them is a pure example of not being ruthless enough.

So I think it's a better idea than Hogans and could "save" TNA.

What are your opinions on this?
Non-spam BTW.

 

[MrHashasheen]

spam

... Did you come out of a timewarp 12 months ago?

But since you seem to want an answer: No. Fuck Paul Heyman and the overrated reputation he seems to have gained since leaving the WWE. Was he a great booker with ECW, and did he have that one great year with Smackdown? Sure, but he had his moments of stupidity with ECW, most notably the long running string of giving a guy the top belt months after his hot streak cooled. Taz, Van Dam, Awesome, etc... Years of badly booked segments and horrible angles, his childish and self-destructive attitude with TNN concerning their television deal (and even the television deal itself!), the financial catastrophe that was ECW's final 15 months, etc...

Heyman can carry a storyline and make it better, but at this point in his career, that's all he's good for. The man had a great run as a booker nearly 15 years ago. Nothing about it says he'd recreate that run with TNA.

 

[braveh]

I think he has one great valid point and that is that only new talent can lift TNA. The old stars can help but they will never take TNA to a new level. Other than that, what the hell does he know? He is too old and out of touch anyway.

When Vince Russo said he initially wanted TNA to be the Sopranos and sex in the city of wrestling I thought that sounded more interesting than Heyman's vision.

 

[Cereal Killer]

... Did you come out of a timewarp 12 months ago?

But since you seem to want an answer: No. Fuck Paul Heyman and the overrated reputation he seems to have gained since leaving the WWE. Was he a great booker with ECW, and did he have that one great year with Smackdown? Sure, but he had his moments of stupidity with ECW, most notably the long running string of giving a guy the top belt months after his hot streak cooled. Taz, Van Dam, Awesome, etc... Years of badly booked segments and horrible angles, his childish and self-destructive attitude with TNN concerning their television deal (and even the television deal itself!), the financial catastrophe that was ECW's final 15 months, etc...

Heyman can carry a storyline and make it better, but at this point in his career, that's all he's good for. The man had a great run as a booker nearly 15 years ago. Nothing about it says he'd recreate that run with TNA.

Well why not. Him coming to TNA would be a great idea. Just because he is old? People said the same when he went to smackdown but he made a great success for guys like the smackdown 6 and Brock Lesnar.

Your only point is that the guy is old. He can still recreate the same thing he did before. He did it in ECW and in his small WWE run so I bet he can do it now.

Oh and timewarp? Seriously?

 

[Cereal Killer]

I think he has one great valid point and that is that only new talent can lift TNA. The old stars can help but they will never take TNA to a new level. Other than that, what the hell does he know? He is too old and out of touch anyway.

When Vince Russo said he initially wanted TNA to be the Sopranos and sex in the city of wrestling I thought that sounded more interesting than Heyman's vision.

"What the hell does he know?"

If He actually had money before and if Vince didn't steal the ideas of Heyman, ECW would still be going. He was what made WWE interesting during the Ruthless Aggression era with Lesnar, angle, eddie, benoit, edge etc.

Appreciate your views though.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

i agree with most of what paul hayman said. the one thing i do not agree with is firing all over 40's. yes i know you cant run a company with guys who have not been able to wrestle a good match in years. but you cant say that guys like kurt angle and rob van dam cant go anymore. both guys are in great shape a still go out and work a great match. i would understand if the company was filled with guys like ric flair, big poppa pump and kevin nash but its not. if all wrestlers over 40 should be fired then why did vince mcmahan not fire guys like shawn micheals and the undertaker when they turned 40. i dont think you would find many people who would.

 

[harrythem]

Last time Heyman was on creative in WWE it resulted in a push for Test because Heyman saw him as a "main event" star in the new ECW. Yeah, kinda think he was off the boil.

Great TV talent but, hell, let's leave the memories alone and just remember the awesome booking from ECW.

Oh, and WWE might've stolen a lot of ECW's ideas but the stuff they had that ECW didn't, was true world-class level main event talent. If ECW had managed to find one or two of them (and money, and a network) they might still be around.

 

[ramblinroy682]

Not now...maybe at the time he said it. The fact is Heyman said this around a time when TNA had Jeff Jarrett, Ken Anderson, Sting, Flair, Hogan, Kevin Nash, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, and RVD as the headline talent. The angles were completely revolving around them. From Immortal battling Sting to Flair and Hogan fighting in matches to Hardy world title reign, it was a complete mess. The x-division had been all but forgotten. TNA fans were begging for guys like AJ, Roode, Storm, Daniels, Joe, Morgan, Pope, and others to be pushed.

Fast forward to today...Roode is the backbone of the company. Aries is a rising star and breakout main eventer. Storm has received a major push and is one of the bigger faces on the roster. AJ Styles, Daniels, and Kaz are involved in a major storyline that has been a big commitment for almost a year back to the infamous screwdriver match. Samoa Joe looks to be on the brink of a push with a direction that might get him back to the tough, killing machine he once was. TNA is trying to create new stars in Gunner, Crimson, Zema Ion and a few others.

TNA is not in the same place it was. The ratings may not be any different, but I think the fan base is happier and I think the fans that are still watching won't be going anywhere. I also think the product is better. If they continue to produce what they've done for the past year, I think the ratings will slowly increase. Austin Aries may bring a few viewers. You know those ROH guys that are loyal ROH guys may turn over this week to see his post title impact.

I think TNA has gone reality to a bit, but has also done some of what Heyman spoke of. Hardy, Anderson, RVD, and Sting are still there, but they are in much lower roles. I think they're valuable. Sting and Hardy are known to all wrestling fans. Hardy can still wrestle and has value in the ring. Sting is good in limited roles and limited stories. Hogan still is on TV, but not in a performer type of manner. He isn't THE Story. Now he part of the story, but his Name is still on the product and until TNA doesn't need that anymore, he can stay. I think he is in the perfect role for them.

So, I don't think Heyman's TNA is the answer now. Was it better than what they were doing at the time, YES. But, I bet he'd have a much better outlook on what they're doing now.

 

[Wald]

Wasn't his major angle to be Daniel Bryan and another wrestler to go undefeated for a full year or more to build a massive PPV match, only for Bryan to make the other wrestler tap out within 2 mins?

 

[xavyer]

I think it would be better, more innovating and would definitly keep fans on the edge of their seats, with that being said, i do however disagree with the guys over 40 thing, but i also agree when he said that he shouldn't fill the roster with veterans to take over the young guys' spot away,but they should be there more to put over the young guys, at this moment TNA is getting a lot better because of what they are doing, Flair is out, Hogan is not getting in the ring to wrestle and Sting is getting less matches, Angle is putting people over and the younger talent is shining, so as you can see, they did listen to Heyman.......

 

[Weems2k]

So focking sick of this love fest for Heyman. Yeah, lets just make these virtual nobody 20 year olds squash everybody in TNA, including the Originals. Fock, that's not a kick in the nuts, and slap in the face to guys like Angle, Styles, and Rhoode. Then to bring in Dean Malenko...errrr...Daniel Brian...errrr..most overrated, overhyped bore today as the ring leader of this? That is why ROH is about to go under. Nobody cares about these guys, and will never follow them even with a belt. Only in the idiotic minds that is the IWC will this ever work, which thank god is never.

 

[IT Factor]

TNA is not even the same as it was when Paul Heyman was pitching these ideas. Remember, at the time Heyman wanted to go to TNA and take over, you had Hogan & Bischoff taking up WAY too much tv time. Sting was having 5 minute classics. And I'm a Sting fan mind you, but, he should not be going for the TNA World Title. Perhaps TNA should turn the "TV Title" back into the "Legends title" and have Sting carry it.

As for the naysayers of Heyman, just look what he accomplished in ECW. While ECW did have its fair shares of failures, WCW and WWF had them just as much. I do believe Heyman would've kicked off the "youth movement" alot sooner than Hulk and Dixie eventually did. Of course, when you keep getting abysmal ratings, you'll have enough sense to stop using the same overrated talents and start trying new things. I think Heyman would've had TNA original talents and outside unknowns built up nicely. I also think Heyman would've been smart enough to steal away former WWE talents not being used and ROH talents looking to become big league.

Sadly, we'll never know. I will say this much, though; Heyman would've been alot more "creative" than Hulk Hogan. Hogan has the name recognition and it still didn't bring alot of attention or viewer into TNA. It'll take someone different to come in and innovate TNA and give it an identity before viewers will start taking notice. I believe Heyman would come closer to being that innovator before either of Hogan or Bischoff.

 

[ABMorales787]

For those that don't know the idea(s) was:

1. Fire all over 40's
2. Make Carter more Aggressive
3. 1 Legend a year
4. Talent scout for 21 and 22 yr olds, train them, bring them to TNA and then they will be kicking ass before the age of 30.

Is the plan really that far off? Kurt Angle and Sting are the only 40+ wrestlers, would you dare fire them? Does TNA even have legends at this point? How exactly do you make Dixie Carter more "aggressive"? Is age relevant in the face of stardom?

Heyman's a big mark for himself. He may have a creative mind, but he also sunk a company by himself. As far as I'm concerned, he would never be a game changer in TNA and his ideas would be turned down in an instant due to their inaccuracy.

 

[snoopy]

So focking sick of this love fest for Heyman. Yeah, lets just make these virtual nobody 20 year olds squash everybody in TNA, including the Originals. Fock, that's not a kick in the nuts, and slap in the face to guys like Angle, Styles, and Rhoode. Then to bring in Dean Malenko...errrr...Daniel Brian...errrr..most overrated, overhyped bore today as the ring leader of this? That is why ROH is about to go under. Nobody cares about these guys, and will never follow them even with a belt. Only in the idiotic minds that is the IWC will this ever work, which thank god is never.

I guessing you don't realize that the Tna originals eventually have to get old, just like everybody else? And I guessing alot of People watching don't see everything he said happening righy now!

The majority of the legends are gone or are being atleast used properly.And the guys over 40 are mostly gone except for guys who still have something to offer or haven't as Heyman said all ready hit 500 homeruns.Dixie is definitely being portrayed more strongly.Also Tna has signed young guys for the future,I remember when they signed Crimson the owner of Absolute Intense Wrestling was pissed at Tna for signing all his young talent!And oh I guess you don't see Bobby Roode playing The Francise character that Shane Douglass played that Triple H stole and being absolutely done to perfection by the Next Generation of selfish, The It Factor.And I guess you don't see the long title reigns and the battle between reigning champions just to see who's better? Just saying.

So Now what? What did he say that was so wrong that isn't currently happening in Tna.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Heyman's plan reminded me of what so many sports' fans' mentalities can devolve into if they support a team with too many veterans for too long. They essentially become jaded to the "old guys" and think that doing the polar opposite would suddenly cure all their ills and misfortunes, as if a group of all snot-nosed 18-year old kids is going to win them a championship any faster than a group of 35-year olds.

Face facts, Paul E — you can't win with either extreme. As in all other sports, it takes a mixture of both to field the most successful product.

It's the main reason I was so against bringing him in in the first place. He was completely uncompromising about the whole thing.

 

[snoopy]

Heyman's plan reminded me of what so many sports' fans' mentalities can devolve into if they support a team with too many veterans for too long. They essentially become jaded to the "old guys" and think that doing the polar opposite would suddenly cure all their ills and misfortunes, as if a group of all snot-nosed 18-year old kids is going to win them a championship any faster than a group of 35-year olds.

Face facts, Paul E — you can't win with either extreme. As in all other sports, it takes a mixture of both to field the most successful product.

It's the main reason I was so against bringing him in in the first place. He was completely uncompromising about the whole thing.

Or is that what he wanted you to think that he uncompromising with this whole youth movement thing? And is out of the realm of possibility that Heyman could run Tna while in the WWE? I say No! Heyman and VKM have worked together before while running different companies. And could be doing it again, It's just to many coincidences going on for me to think that this totally can't be happening. He also said the 40 year olds should be putting over the younger Tna originals,Hmmm Bully Ray,Kurt Angle, Daniels and RVD have been putting guys over like crazy lately.

Hell this might just be wishful thinking on my part, But Weems didn't Crimson just come to Tna go undefeated for a over a year and get beat by James Storm at Slammiversary or was I watching a different company on thurday nights.

 

[New Hot Fed]

Here's the thing TNA is slowly but surely becoming what Heyman was seeing, we have a lot of interesting new stars. A relatively newbee like Austin Aries is the TNA champ, most of the old guys are gone. There's only Angle and Sting basically as performers that are old. And Bully who has reinvented himself. Guys like Roode and Storm have been elevated to World champ status and hopefully Joe keeps winning matchs. The Pope has returned, I see a promising career from Magnus. The only guys I feel are in a strange position are Anderson, Hardy and RVD. But TNA keeps them because they feel like they bring the best out everybody. The only old guy I would cut is Devon wich for whatever reasons TNA keeps pushing even though he offers zero entertainment value and can barely wrestle. They should have Joseph Parks beat him for the TV belt. All is left to do is retire the TNA name forever and re-brand themselves as Impact Wrestling from now on.

 

[Weems2k]

I guessing you don't realize that the Tna originals eventually have to get old, just like everybody else? And I guessing alot of People watching don't see everything he said happening righy now!

The majority of the legends are gone or are being atleast used properly.And the guys over 40 are mostly gone except for guys who still have something to offer or haven't as Heyman said all ready hit 500 homeruns.Dixie is definitely being portrayed more strongly.Also Tna has signed young guys for the future,I remember when they signed Crimson the owner of Absolute Intense Wrestling was pissed at Tna for signing all his young talent!And oh I guess you don't see Bobby Roode playing The Francise character that Shane Douglass played that Triple H stole and being absolutely done to perfection by the Next Generation of selfish, The It Factor.And I guess you don't see the long title reigns and the battle between reigning champions just to see who's better? Just saying.

So Now what? What did he say that was so wrong that isn't currently happening in Tna.

I guess I must have written some of my post with invisible ink since I don't see anywhere in it that I am bitching about Rhoode having the belt for almost a year. Or how the current product of Impact is doing well. Come on, don't be a Darren.