Paul Bearer imposter taking it to far?

[Jack-Hammer]

Jackhammer stop posting dude. Your views are stupid.

There's nothing 'over sensitive' about not enjoying an angle mocking death. What part of this is so hard for a redneck Kentucky hillbilly to understand. There is NO ENTERTAINMENT VALUE IN MOCKING DEATH OR A HEART ATTACK. Not because it's disrespectful, but because it doesn't add anything to the product's entertainment value.
End of story.

Wow, so you're immediately going to the "redneck hillbilly" insults just because of where I happen to live? Seriously? You're that lazy that you can't come up with some sort of genuine insult that you have to immediately go to stereotyping? That's so pathetic that it's actually kind of quaint.

As for the rest of your nonsensical rambling, it's not really worth the effort of going into. The Attitude Era was all about shock value, generating controversy. For instance, on one well known segment of Raw during the Attitude Era, Vince McMahon was in his "hospital room" after having his "leg broken". Dressed in scrubs & a mask, Stone Cold Steve Austin attacks Vince and, at one point, shoves some sort of probing device up Vince's ass. As a result, Vince screams at the top of his lungs while 15,000 people watching in the arena on the Titantron watch in delight. Or, how about a feud in which the Big Boss Man crashes the "funeral" of Big Show's "father", chains the coffin to the back of his vehicle, tears out of the cemetery with it while Big Show cries in grief & frustration while trying to hold onto his "father's coffin"? Or how about when Triple H, while feuding with Kane, simulated having sex with a "dead body" of a woman named Katie Vick? So yes, it seems that outrageously controversial angles were quite common in during those days. Now remember, all this took place during your precious Attitude Era. So let's see....I've named one incident of simulated sodomy, one simulated desecration of a gravesite and one simulated incident of necrophilia. Those are only a few of the gems to pop up during your precious Attitude Era.


And yes, people are far too sensitive these days. All you have to do is...oh...I don't know...turn on the news. You do know what that is don't you? There are entire networks on television that are devoted to doing nothing more than reporting to the public about the biggest happenings in the world. For instance, there's a school district in New Hampshire that's banning Dodgeball because they feel it "encourages bullying" and many schools around the country that use Dodgeball during gym classes are thinking of following suit. Yes...yes I can see where engaging in a harmless physical activity that encourages group interaction that uses big red rubber balls is a true detriment to America. It ranks right up there with child pornography, the rising number of hate groups, the ever present threat of gangs, a failing educational system and easy access to drugs as a major pitfall facing today's youth. I mean, after all, God forbid that something like Dodgeball is just...well...a recreational activity? There's no way it can be a game that people play for fun right? Everything has to have some ulterior motive. If Little Jimmy happens to take a shot from the ball, then it must mean he's being bullied doesn't it?

But I've humored you enough. You're a fool, quite frankly, and you're really not worth responding to. However, I thought your "redneck Kentucky hillbilly" comment was just so precious that I had to weigh in. So run along back to what you were doing before and let the adults who have some genuine idea what they're talking about continue with their discussions.

 

[#heel420]

I hate people that claim that they want the Attitude Era back, but when they do something even slightly controversial everybody bitches about it. This isn't even half as bad as the stuff they did with Eddie saying that he's in hell and such. Granted there was more time between the death and the angles. If you didn't expect Paul Heyman to imitate Paul Bearer, what are you new?

 

[hatehabsforever]

Something he signed off on, too. And no one portrayed Lawler's mom on air either.

Frankly, the degree of appropriateness for me has little to nothing to do with whether or not someone signed off on it. That may seem a little inconsistent because I did suggest that I think that Moody himself would have been OK with last night's segment, making it seem a little more palatable. But the Paul Bearer character constantly blurred the lines between reality and fiction, and consistently was supernatural and revolved around death, hell, etc., So using this character in this manner doesn't offend me at all.

Lawler is still alive, and mocking a heart attack (which in no way plays into any of Lawler's characters over the years) was inappropriate because let's face it, heaven forbid, I could happen again, and how funny or appropriate would it be if he suffered a second heart attack, with a less fortunate outcome next time? Moody is unfortunately gone, so this doesn't apply here. Mocking Lawler's cardiac arrest was tempting fate with no upside and a potential downside in a manner inconsistent with his character. "Mocking" Bearer (not sure if it really was mocking) didn't tempt fate in such a manner and plays seamlessly into the storyline.

No one portrayed Lawler's mom on air, this is true. All the more reason why her real life person should have been off limits because it was reality and it was not a case of exploiting a TV character for a tangible benefit.

But he was a person. William Moody played that character. Nobody played the Katie Vick character except the mannequin in the coffin. Imagine if Rey Mysterio died. Now what if CM Punk had someone come out to pretend to be Rey Rey and mock him? Think about that for a second.

Not the same thing at all. Rey Mysterio is a wrestler in no way associated with the supernatural, the surreal, the afterlife. Mocking him would be incredibly inappropriate. Remember, Moody's character was all about death, funerals, urns, etc., Employing this in a storyline is totally different than mocking a wrestler whose character was never portrayed in this manner.

William Moody was a person. But Paul Bearer was not.

When his son was left speechless at the actions of Punk and Heyman, that left me with the impression that it went too far.

It's truly unfortunate that the son was offended and speechless. But was this a case of things going too far, or a case of a son probably being hypersensitive, and unfairly so?

Be that as it may, his son's the only person that can speak on his behalf and he was left with nothing to say after seeing it on TV.

The son isn't the only one who can speak on his behalf, the rest of the family could speak as well. Has anyone else spoken out adversely in the aftermath of this angle? Or does the rest of the family see this as a tribute to the character that Moody played so effectively for so long, one that they think he himself may have approved of?

I see your point, but it's not relevant because William Moody WAS Paul Bearer to a lot of folks. Katie Vick wasn't played by a person.

Any fans who have difficulty discerning reality from kayfabe is unfortunate. But entertainment blurs this line consistently, in TV shows, movies, and of course professional wrestling. And I agree with you, there are lines which I feel should never be crossed. A match for the custody of Dominick, with the kid sitting at ringside, ring any bells with anyone? I'm not saying that WWE should have carte blanche to portray absolutely anything they want on TV. But showing the Paul Bearer character in a manner consistent with his character which he portrayed for years, for a logical and consistent storyline purpose, especially after an earlier respectful memorial, it really doesn't trouble me at all.

 

[Dyscord]

No.
It's not taking it too far. What about that was disrespectful? Whenever you see someone dressed up as John Lennon on Halloween, do you think they are disrespecting him? Ok, Bearer is dead, but Heyman didn't come out dressed like Bearer cutting a promo say, "Haha, I look like that dead idiot Bearer. I hope he's in a worse place. Fuck his family."

They utilized his character to further a feud involving the Undertaker. Nothing wrong with that at all and if you think so, you need to sit down because you can't handle pro wrestling with any hint of an edge at all.

This. And so many people seem to be forgetting this.

Not once have they badmouthed Bearer. Impersonate? Yes. But they're not talking about how he's rotting in hell or something like that. THAT would be disrespectful.

And as it's been reported like a million times at this point, the family is fine with it. Paul himself would have been fine with it. There is no disrespect here. What we have here is a heel being a heel and doing heelish things.

 

[RipZz]

I think guys here and anywhere else just don't know how to take it. I was in that group before I took a step back and really looked at it and I believe Paul Bearer would love how even after he's died he is still helping a legendary feud. Hands down I think this feud storyline wise surpasses what The Undertaker was involved in, in the past couple of years. Everyone else it was always about the streak but they had Punk make it personal while not disrespecting the dead.

Like I said in an earlier post I remember when they had Orton(I believe it was him) say on Live TV that Eddie was in hell. Now that's something I can't agree with, or how they brought Lawler's mom's death into a storyline. They haven't mentioned William Moody by his real name, how he died or even mocked anything about him personally and for that I can respect this storyline a lot more than I did early on.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

From main page...

WWE has sent WZ the text message from Moody, which he intended to be made public, and it reads as follows:

Hey. I woke up in time to watch the tail end of the show. What you explained would happen happened. Which is fine. Just it was a little difficult to watch it play out. I put a message on Facebook last night saying that we approved it but it wasn't what I envisioned. That I didn't have anything to say. Well woke up this morning and that quote is being used all over "media outlets". For the record. I was fine w it. Was hard to watch but y'all are professionals and I trust.

Btw, i love this kind of thread. IWC always bitches about "edgier" TV and when somebody gives them that, somebody always makes this kind of thread to bitch about how something is offensive to him and that they are taking too far with some angle they do...

 

[HereComesThePain53]

If you think that the Paul Bearer storyline is alright, then I hope your loved ones die. What if I killed your mom or your dad or your brother or sister and mocked their death and tortured you for your life???? Please lol...this is not even close to "edgy" TV. This is plain f*cking tasteless, disrespectful, and a total act of desperation to seduce people into buying WM. WWE is heartless, and so are all of you. You all enjoy "heel" things and spit on "face" moments. I'm glad you all don't support Hitler or Laden lmao...because based on all of your opinions, I can just call Hitler a heel and justify the holocaust.

 

[Miz_Mark]

If you think that the Paul Bearer storyline is alright, then I hope your loved ones die. What if I killed your mom or your dad or your brother or sister and mocked their death and tortured you for your life???? Please lol...this is not even close to "edgy" TV. This is plain f*cking tasteless, disrespectful, and a total act of desperation to seduce people into buying WM. WWE is heartless, and so are all of you. You all enjoy "heel" things and spit on "face" moments. I'm glad you all don't support Hitler or Laden lmao...because based on all of your opinions, I can just call Hitler a heel and justify the holocaust.

That's right, folks, pretend characters doing pretend mean things to other pretend characters about other pretend characters is the equivalent of the murder of millions of innocent people. How absurd.

No one murdered William Moody and then went on TV to mock his family about it, he tragically died, and WWE, after getting FULL permission from his family to do so, had the fictional heel character of CM Punk try to manipulate the fictional character of the Undertaker by making reference to the fictional character Paul Bearer.

If I was a life long performer in this business and I died, and my death could be used to further a storyline for the biggest show of the year, I would be 100% for it, and everything I know about William Moody and everything the people who knew him have to say about him indicates he would be all for this as well.

And, this cannot be stressed enough, every step of the way, WWE has gotten permission from the family of the deceased William Moody before utilizing the Paul Bearer character. The family of the dead man has no problem with any of this, and you think you can complain? Absurd.

It's been quoted above, but here again, let me quote Moody's son himself in response to the reports misrepresenting him as opposed to Monday's angle:

Hey. I woke up in time to watch the tail end of the show. What you explained would happen happened. Which is fine. Just it was a little difficult to watch it play out. I put a message on Facebook last night saying that we approved it but it wasn't what I envisioned. That I didn't have anything to say. Well woke up this morning and that quote is being used all over "media outlets". For the record. I was fine w it. Was hard to watch but y'all are professionals and I trust.

There you go, the obviously very sensitive son of the deceased is fine with it. Why is anyone else bitching?

 

[sTyLnK]

I just seen CM Punk orchestrate an assembly of druids headed by a Paul Bearer rip off and a sound bite that might had been him recorded from who knows when. Even though the Undertaker and Paul Bearer both have to do with the afterlife is this becoming to disrespectful to him? Who is even supposed to be in the urn anyways?

The family is fine with it and to be honest, I'm not upset or offended either. In fact, you knew they were going to use his death as a story line. It's a cheap and easy way out. It makes for some lazy writing. JMO and I stand by it.

 

[Pure Blooded Asari]

How could they possibly ignore his death in the storyline? The timing is unfortunate yet perfect for a true lover of this strange carny business like Percy.

 

[snakeayez]

I know I am new to the forum but I am a long time reader and even longer time wrestling fan so here is my newcomer take.

It makes me uncomfortable, it makes me angry, it makes me hate Punk but that is EXACTLY what its supposed to do and its working masterfully. I am guessing the urn would've been a part regardless and his tragic loss just added fuel to it. Wouldve been good, now its great and makes it the most anticipated match (along with Ryback/Henry for me, could care less about Cena/Rock)

Also Mondays antics including the spilling of the "ashes" and rubbing them on like war paint almost assures that Taker will win now. In a good majority of situations whomever gets over on the final show before the PPV usually ends up losing at the event.

Just my two cents...

 

[ilapierre]

Shocky makes a great point about all the 'butthurt' going on around here from the people who are whining that there's nothing wrong with Punk mocking the dead. It's like these fuck heads don't get it. They think it's cooler than it is (and it isn't) because others supposedly find it disrespectful. But I haven't seen on here one person say it was disrespectful. I read a few fans say the angle on RAW went too far as in it stopped being about the wrestlers but too much about people in real life. But the fans here who see nothing wrong with this angle also see nothing wrong with the fact that Punk automatically isn't cool if he's a square who can't enjoy a beer in his private life. Punk makes for great PG TV cause he's the type of guy who won't swear, drink even a light beer or toke up on some harmless weed. He's a great role model for 5 year olds and overgrown adult babies who still live in their parents' basements because they can't stop watching wrestling. How can any wrestling fan take a wrestler seriously if they mock the dead (no one mocks the dead because it's stupid, just like being tatted up and not drinking is lame). The only type of person who could find that entertaining in the least is someone whose completely lost touch with reality. Someone who lacks life experience. Like a 5 year old or a manchild living in his parents' basement. Exactly. Punk is their hero.

The thing is people like Shocky are dumb and don't get that mocking the dead years after the Attitude Era (where way more controversial shit happened) is less disrespectful as it is flat out not entertaining. Shocky's probably like Punk: he likes to mock people who've lost a loved one but then when there's a party he stays home to blog in his mom's basement because he doesn't drink or enjoy life like his hero, the king of the internet smarks, CM Punk. What online smarks love so much about Punk is he's just like them. He knows all the same little internet gossip nuggets and he spews them out on TV. But the guy doesn't drink and will never touch drugs. That's real life experience and he barely has any. Just like all his fucking annoying smarky fans on here. Who, with some real life experience, wouldn't take life and death so lightly. These same smark fans attack me all the time here telling me that it's cool not to drink and not to touch drugs but that it's also perfectly fine to mock someone's death for entertainment purposes. These wrestling fans are so obsessed with who they fall in love with that they lose complete touch with reality.

So here's a reality check. In the post-Attitude Era (where people aren't allowed to improvise)a booker scripts a wrestler to go too far, then there is no such thing as going too far. This did not slip out of Punk's mouth and he did not get reprimanded because of it. He was told to mock Paul Bearer. That's what makes the whole angle uncool for me and a lot of us. It'd be one thing if Punk had complete control of his character and actions and opposed what he was suppose to. It's another thing when he is forced by his boss to stoop to that level. That's what people loved so much about Austin. Had Vince or Triple H tried to get Austin to go there, he'd stun them. Or in real life walk out on them. That's real attitude. That's cool.

Those who believe it went too far feel that way because the publicity stunts cross the line from entertaining and ballsy to just downright pointless and stupid. Here's something similar. I loved the fingerpoke of doom Nitro but not everyone did or understood why I loved it. For me it meant the return of the real Monday night war between NWO and WCW. For others, mainly the WWE obsessed, it tarnished the legacy of the sport. I thought those people were jackoffs. And it's those same WWE obsessed jackoffs here applauding everything WWE does just because it's their beloved WWE. Fingerpoke of Doom would have been cool to them had it been done by WWE. Instead, WWE loving revisionists who barely watched WCW at the time reference that night as the reason WCW died. Because they're stupid. And they're the same people who find Punk mocking the dead as entertaining. It's more of a 'CM Punk'-can-do-no-wrong thing with them though. They love everything he does that makes him more of a heel. I get it though. I was a NWO-can-do-no-wrong guy. If you look at what CM Punk the character is doing, it's definitely building his legacy. But if you look at it like it's Triple H telling Punk and Heyman to go out there and do that stupid shit, then you see the angles for what they are. Contrived. Do any of you remember the Oklahoma character making fun of JR's cerebal pallsy. Everyone hated it, the wrestlers hated it as it disrespected good ole JR. I loved it but most people hated it. Looking back though I realize it added nothing to the product. All it did was build heat for Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera. I was rooting for Russo and Ferrerra and a lot of people weren't. So the loyal WWE fan dictated on this site 13 years ago that there was no entertainment value in mocking a disease someone had no control over. This is very similar to the mocking of Lawler's heart attack and Bearer's death. A lot of you love it because you love seeing Punk do things others haven't. Problem is it's not much different than mocking JR, deemed stupid and pointless ages ago, and it's not much different than giving the belt to David Arquette, also stupid and pointless. These things were done for shock value and they weren't shocking. For me and many others, mocking things that are supposed to be controversial crosses the line from pointless to downright stupid.

The NWO represented attitude. Almost everything they did was done in the moment and it felt real. Punk mocking dead people. Great for him as a heel, lousy for anyone else who could give a shit about PG TV and the carefully scripted attitude Punk's suppose to be portraying. It's those 32 year old fans who watch PG wrestling religiously and defend Punk/Triple H on these types of sites that make me chuckle. Grow up. The product sucks and mocking the dead isn't making anything better. It's not disrespectful but it's not entertaining. Get it through your skulls. Enjoying WWE's current product is like being an adult watching The Wiggles. Enjoying Punk mocking the dead is like like enjoying 45 year old men doing cross chops and running around with glow sticks.

 

[#tamale]

Punk makes for great PG TV cause he's the type of guy who won't swear, drink even a light beer or toke up on some harmless weed. He's a great role model for 5 year olds and overgrown adult babies who still live in their parents' basements because they can't stop watching wrestling. How can any wrestling fan take a wrestler seriously if they mock the dead (no one mocks the dead because it's stupid, just like being tatted up and not drinking is lame).

Punk represents a group of people within a musical scene that hold straight edge values. As someone who grew up within that musical scene, I love his values because they represent the values of many of my friends and of many people around the world who adhere to their values because they believe in them. Before you go spouting off on something make sure you do some research on it to know what it actually is. And now you need to drink when you have tattoos because otherwise it's lame? Wow.

The thing is people like Shocky are dumb and don't get that mocking the dead years after the Attitude Era (where way more controversial shit happened) is less disrespectful as it is flat out not entertaining. Shocky's probably like Punk: he likes to mock people who've lost a loved one but then when there's a party he stays home to blog in his mom's basement because he doesn't drink or enjoy life like his hero, the king of the internet smarks

So from one post, you judge a poster on the internet who you have no idea what is like in real life?

Who, with some real life experience, wouldn't take life and death so lightly. These same smark fans attack me all the time here telling me that it's cool not to drink and not to touch drugs but that it's also perfectly fine to mock someone's death for entertainment purposes. These wrestling fans are so obsessed with who they fall in love with that they lose complete touch with reality.

Never ever have seen anyone "attack" you. Don't think yourself as some sort of martyr. You're not that important.

It'd be one thing if Punk had complete control of his character and actions and opposed what he was suppose to. It's another thing when he is forced by his boss to stoop to that level.

Go to 5:37

[YOUTUBE]3ik6VvbXND8[/YOUTUBE]

Punk says it, he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do. And don't you think Undertaker has enough stroke to end this angle if he found it disrespectful?

I loved the fingerpoke of doom Nitro but not everyone did or understood why I loved it. For me it meant the return of the real Monday night war between NWO and WCW.

Glad you enjoyed the Fingerpoke of Doom. Many didn't. What you fail to realize is that at that point, the NWO was such a dead and boring angle that no one wanted it. People wanted new stars. But hey, more power to you if you enjoyed it. Many enjoyed this segment between Punk and Taker.

All your long ass diatribes boils down to is the fact that it's not the product that you want. That's fine. But quit your holier than thou bullshit and quit acting like a martyr.

And yes I enjoyed the segment. It was edgy. It was controversial. But it makes everyone here want to see Punk get his ass handed to him by Undertaker. Hell, I want to see it. That way we get an Undertaker win and a great tribute at the end of the match for Paul Bearer.

 

[One to Remember]

I loved the fingerpoke of doom Nitro but not everyone did or understood why I loved it. For me it meant the return of the real Monday night war between NWO and WCW. For others, mainly the WWE obsessed, it tarnished the legacy of the sport.

Are you drunk? You dismiss critics of the fingerpoke by accusing them of being WWFers and just not getting it.. I STILL am a WCW guy and i understood what they hoped to do with it to some degree but it was still wrong for two key reasons. First, the NWO had long ran its course. The second, which kinda relates to the Moody vs. Bearer argument in this thread, is that even with marketable characters a lot of the top NWO names needed to be fired from WCW because of politiking and misconduct that would not change due to the type of people they were. Hall, Nash, and Hogan needed to be released.

And then you have to realize the space they were wasting. The NWO past its prime was the reason the WWF had the Radicalz and WCW did not get to utilize The Crippler or Latino Heat. That's also why WCW did not have Y2J to showcase. They are why Lance Storm had the U.S., Hardcore, and Cruiserweight titles but could not add the WCW title to that. The Luchadors also missed out because of the NWO past its prime..

Not the same thing at all. Rey Mysterio is a wrestler in no way associated with the supernatural, the surreal, the afterlife. Mocking him would be incredibly inappropriate. Remember, Moody's character was all about death, funerals, urns, etc., Employing this in a storyline is totally different than mocking a wrestler whose character was never portrayed in this manner.

William Moody was a person. But Paul Bearer was not.

I beg to differ. Lots of people are conflated which roles or characters they play and you don't have to be overzealous or fanboyish to not draw those lines. William Moody was Paul Bearer in the same sense that Red Foxx was Fred Sanford or Sherman Helmsley was George Jefferson. If the character was Moody's brainchild that blurs the lines even further even if Moody isn't in to grave yards and the occult period. The character was what he was known for and thats probably how he was addressed off the clock.

I've named one incident of simulated sodomy, one simulated desecration of a gravesite and one simulated incident of necrophilia. Those are only a few of the gems to pop up during your precious Attitude Era.


And yes, people are far too sensitive these days. All you have to do is...oh...I don't know...turn on the news. You do know what that is don't you? There are entire networks on television that are devoted to doing nothing more than reporting to the public about the biggest happenings in the world. For instance, there's a school district in New Hampshire that's banning Dodgeball because they feel it "encourages bullying" and many schools around the country that use Dodgeball during gym classes are thinking of following suit. Yes...yes I can see where engaging in a harmless physical activity that encourages group interaction that uses big red rubber balls is a true detriment to America. It ranks right up there with child pornography, the rising number of hate groups, the ever present threat of gangs, a failing educational system and easy access to drugs as a major pitfall facing today's youth. I mean, after all, God forbid that something like Dodgeball is just...well...a recreational activity? There's no way it can be a game that people play for fun right? Everything has to have some ulterior motive. If Little Jimmy happens to take a shot from the ball, then it must mean he's being bullied doesn't it?

What you and about 600 other people in this thread failed to realize is that there were TWO COMPONENTS to the disrespect aspect. One consists of the angle just being distasteful while the other second aspect I hope to high light was WWE taking advantage of his death for profit. The storyline had been running BEFORE Bearer's death yet WWE chose not to bring Bearer into the storyline until the point where his character could be used without having to compensate Mr. Moody or even have to take his input. And I am not sure why Mr. Moody the man would take pride in a storyline that is essentially an attemp to help CM Punk compensate for losing to an ex. Wrestler of all people and having said ex wrestler cut his historic rein short. WWE devalued Punk in that sense, why would Moody want to build him up? Before Moody's death there was actually a chance Punk might end the streak but Moody's death makes that highly unlikely because now theres a defense of one's honor component. The bottom line is WWE liked that they could save money by hijacking a man's character and presence.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Shocky makes a great point about all the 'butthurt' going on around here from the people who are whining that there's nothing wrong with Punk mocking the dead. It's like these fuck heads don't get it. They think it's cooler than it is (and it isn't) because others supposedly find it disrespectful. But I haven't seen on here one person say it was disrespectful. I read a few fans say the angle on RAW went too far as in it stopped being about the wrestlers but too much about people in real life. But the fans here who see nothing wrong with this angle also see nothing wrong with the fact that Punk automatically isn't cool if he's a square who can't enjoy a beer in his private life. Punk makes for great PG TV cause he's the type of guy who won't swear, drink even a light beer or toke up on some harmless weed. He's a great role model for 5 year olds and overgrown adult babies who still live in their parents' basements because they can't stop watching wrestling. How can any wrestling fan take a wrestler seriously if they mock the dead (no one mocks the dead because it's stupid, just like being tatted up and not drinking is lame). The only type of person who could find that entertaining in the least is someone whose completely lost touch with reality. Someone who lacks life experience. Like a 5 year old or a manchild living in his parents' basement. Exactly. Punk is their hero.

The thing is people like Shocky are dumb and don't get that mocking the dead years after the Attitude Era (where way more controversial shit happened) is less disrespectful as it is flat out not entertaining. Shocky's probably like Punk: he likes to mock people who've lost a loved one but then when there's a party he stays home to blog in his mom's basement because he doesn't drink or enjoy life like his hero, the king of the internet smarks, CM Punk. What online smarks love so much about Punk is he's just like them. He knows all the same little internet gossip nuggets and he spews them out on TV. But the guy doesn't drink and will never touch drugs. That's real life experience and he barely has any. Just like all his fucking annoying smarky fans on here. Who, with some real life experience, wouldn't take life and death so lightly. These same smark fans attack me all the time here telling me that it's cool not to drink and not to touch drugs but that it's also perfectly fine to mock someone's death for entertainment purposes. These wrestling fans are so obsessed with who they fall in love with that they lose complete touch with reality.

So here's a reality check. In the post-Attitude Era (where people aren't allowed to improvise)a booker scripts a wrestler to go too far, then there is no such thing as going too far. This did not slip out of Punk's mouth and he did not get reprimanded because of it. He was told to mock Paul Bearer. That's what makes the whole angle uncool for me and a lot of us. It'd be one thing if Punk had complete control of his character and actions and opposed what he was suppose to. It's another thing when he is forced by his boss to stoop to that level. That's what people loved so much about Austin. Had Vince or Triple H tried to get Austin to go there, he'd stun them. Or in real life walk out on them. That's real attitude. That's cool.

Those who believe it went too far feel that way because the publicity stunts cross the line from entertaining and ballsy to just downright pointless and stupid. Here's something similar. I loved the fingerpoke of doom Nitro but not everyone did or understood why I loved it. For me it meant the return of the real Monday night war between NWO and WCW. For others, mainly the WWE obsessed, it tarnished the legacy of the sport. I thought those people were jackoffs. And it's those same WWE obsessed jackoffs here applauding everything WWE does just because it's their beloved WWE. Fingerpoke of Doom would have been cool to them had it been done by WWE. Instead, WWE loving revisionists who barely watched WCW at the time reference that night as the reason WCW died. Because they're stupid. And they're the same people who find Punk mocking the dead as entertaining. It's more of a 'CM Punk'-can-do-no-wrong thing with them though. They love everything he does that makes him more of a heel. I get it though. I was a NWO-can-do-no-wrong guy. If you look at what CM Punk the character is doing, it's definitely building his legacy. But if you look at it like it's Triple H telling Punk and Heyman to go out there and do that stupid shit, then you see the angles for what they are. Contrived. Do any of you remember the Oklahoma character making fun of JR's cerebal pallsy. Everyone hated it, the wrestlers hated it as it disrespected good ole JR. I loved it but most people hated it. Looking back though I realize it added nothing to the product. All it did was build heat for Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera. I was rooting for Russo and Ferrerra and a lot of people weren't. So the loyal WWE fan dictated on this site 13 years ago that there was no entertainment value in mocking a disease someone had no control over. This is very similar to the mocking of Lawler's heart attack and Bearer's death. A lot of you love it because you love seeing Punk do things others haven't. Problem is it's not much different than mocking JR, deemed stupid and pointless ages ago, and it's not much different than giving the belt to David Arquette, also stupid and pointless. These things were done for shock value and they weren't shocking. For me and many others, mocking things that are supposed to be controversial crosses the line from pointless to downright stupid.

The NWO represented attitude. Almost everything they did was done in the moment and it felt real. Punk mocking dead people. Great for him as a heel, lousy for anyone else who could give a shit about PG TV and the carefully scripted attitude Punk's suppose to be portraying. It's those 32 year old fans who watch PG wrestling religiously and defend Punk/Triple H on these types of sites that make me chuckle. Grow up. The product sucks and mocking the dead isn't making anything better. It's not disrespectful but it's not entertaining. Get it through your skulls. Enjoying WWE's current product is like being an adult watching The Wiggles. Enjoying Punk mocking the dead is like like enjoying 45 year old men doing cross chops and running around with glow sticks.

I honestly am not sure what to make of this incoherent, discombobulated rant.

You have a problem with Punk because he doesn't drink or do drugs... because that's the only way to get life experience?

The angle isn't Punk's fault because he's just doing what he's told, but you don't like Punk anyways because he's in angles you don't like.

Anyone who likes Punk, or likes angles you don't like, must be some overgrown child living in their parents basement?

Are you 12?

You don't like the angle. Fine. It's obviously not for everyone. A word of advice though if you don't want people claiming your 'butthurt' for not liking it. Maybe cut out all the personal attacks to anyone who disagrees with you... and it probably might be a good idea not to keep bringing this up in every thread you post in.

Because you know... you're really coming across like you are butthurt.

 

[Shocky]

The thing is people like Shocky are dumb and don't get that mocking the dead years after the Attitude Era (where way more controversial shit happened) is less disrespectful as it is flat out not entertaining. Shocky's probably like Punk: he likes to mock people who've lost a loved one but then when there's a party he stays home to blog in his mom's basement because he doesn't drink or enjoy life like his hero, the king of the internet smarks, CM Punk. .

Where did Punk mock William Moody? I'm waiting for it, because it never happened. You, my friend, need to understand the difference between fiction, and reality. Paul Bearer was a fictional character that hung out with a Wrestling Zombie. Paul Bearer has been killed on screen several times, committed adultery with the mother of his necrophiliac son, crucified a foul mouthed redneck, and performed sacrifices in the name of said Wrestling Zombie. Did you really think the WWE wasn't going to use Paul Bearer one last time? You are one naive human being.

Look up anything on William Moody, and you know the man loves the business. Look up any interview with people that knew Moody, and they have basically said Moody would love this angle. The Paul Bearer angle has made this the must see match at Mania. It's a lackluster card with terrible build for every match, but this match stands out.

At the end of the day, the Moody sons said that it was okay for the WWE to do this angle. You might not like it, boo fucking hoo. The angle is supposed to be offensive. CM Punk is supposed to be offensive. The job is accomplished. All of you keyboard warriors that are so frustrated and outraged will be watching once again Monday Night.

 

[One to Remember]

yeah Shocky but they are using his mannerism and presence for free. They are ripping him off. Why wasn't he good enough to be in the storyline when he was above ground? Didn't want to fork over cash, didn't care about him.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

I think it's hilarious how many of us weren't aware that the guy impersonating Paul Bearer was Paul F**king Heyman!!

I think the makeup job was too well done! That said, the entire reason why this was done was to be offensive by creating a little bit of controversy. So if you think it went too far, then it probably did. I just think it was a cheap attempt to do so and did a decent job of covering the company's ass by clearly intending to mimic only the Paul Bearer character and not William Moody. I would suggest that anyone that does have an issue with this to at least try and take solace in knowing that they didn't truly do anything wrong. They just tried to walk as close to the line without crossing it. It's nothing to be proud of but it's hardly a reason to suspect that they were intending to disrespect Moody's memory.

 

[HBsam31]

Wow I have read some silly stuff in these forums, but to say that people that don't drink or smoke weed must be losers that live in their parent's basement is the most absurd thing I have ever read here by far. Anyway it has been stated over and over again that Moody's family is ok with this. If they didn't want it done then I think WWE should respect that, but that isn't this case. I am not shocked by a lot but I was shocked when I saw Heyman come out in Paul Bearer makeup, and that is exactly what they were going for. This match is must see for me now. I have no doubt that William Moody would have wanted to be remembered like this one last time. It's almost like they are paying tribute to him. Given the circumstances, and the family approving I don't think they are going to far.

 

[One to Remember]

i think William Moody would want to get paid or see his family get compensated for using his likeness or a character that he is associated with, I doubt he can see anything these days but if so I doubt he'd be too impressed..

 

[One to Remember]

I doubt it, some of the last few things on his mind probably had to do with why he wasn't being incorporated into this storyline over a month ago.. Which I kinda found weird anyway.

that was the point I was trying to make in this thread in the beginning and we got all caught up in this nonsense about being PG and PC and hypocritical and losing our '90s mentality and blah blah. WWE was in some regards happy they could utilize someone who would require pay for free now and not have to worry about his insight on the storyline parameters or direction. That is where the disrespect came in to it. He essentially got rip off postmortem. Grave robbed..

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

WWE was in some regards happy they could utilize someone who would require pay for free now and not have to worry about his insight on the storyline parameters or direction. That is where the disrespect came in to it. He essentially got rip off postmortem. Grave robbed..

So, William Moody's appearance fee was too much for a billion dollar company, and they only decided use "him" when he was dead? There is no way that you honestly believe that.

And in the week or two prior to his death, why would he be sitting at home wondering why he wasn't an original part of the storyline? Was Paul Bearer involved last year? Or the year before that? Or the year before that? The only REASON he is involved in this storyline now is BECAUSE he died. Not because of a nominal dollar amount that they would have to pay him if he was alive.

The WWE is capitalizing on the fact that the Undertaker's authority figure died right before WM. It's an obvious angle that just begged to be incorporated into their match.

Saying that William Moody was "grave robbed" is one of the more over-the-top, hyperbolic statements that I have seen in quite a while.

 

[The Butcher]

Is this discussion still going on? I hope 21% of you get haunted by William Moody's ghost, and the ghost says, "Oooooh... lighten the fuck up... ooooOOOOH... it's not reeeeeeeaaaal... OOOOooooh... my family doesn't miiiiiiiiind, neither should yoooOOOOOOH... Paul Bearer was a character on a TV shooooooooOOOOOO... "

 

[One to Remember]

So, William Moody's appearance fee was too much for a billion dollar company, and they only decided use "him" when he was dead? There is no way that you honestly believe that.

It wasn't too much they just didn't want to spend it. That simple.

And in the week or two prior to his death, why would he be sitting at home wondering why he wasn't an original part of the storyline? Was Paul Bearer involved last year? Or the year before that? Or the year before that?

Because 20 is a good stopping point, so are 25 or 30. Since Undetaker already has one of those classic record numbers there was a reasonable chance he would lose this year giving Bearer incentive to intervene. He also would had served as a counterbalance to Heyman obviously. If Luke Gallows swooped in to help CM Punk would you not expect Kane to dip from his current role to even the odds atleast briefly?

The only REASON he is involved in this storyline now is BECAUSE he died. Not because of a nominal dollar amount that they would have to pay him if he was alive.

The WWE is capitalizing on the fact that the Undertaker's authority figure died right before WM. It's an obvious angle that just begged to be incorporated into their match.

But your one of the guys on here arguin the Undertaker and Bearer are both type of gools to begin with and no one's jaw should drop when a death is incorporated. But I thought Taker and Bearer had both kinda technically kayfabe wise been dead since circa 1990? So is Taker fighting for Bearer who was already a zombie or is he fighting for William Moody which isn't a WWE character? Is it kayfabe or not? After WM29 could the Paul Bearer character be brought back for a few months then? Or would that then finally be over the line for you? But wait a zombie gets to walk postmortem and anybody can play the character since its a WWE trademark..

Saying that William Moody was "grave robbed" is one of the more over-the-top, hyperbolic statements that I have seen in quite a while.

They are using his likeness, is the family getting hooked up?
I hope your answer to the previous response doesn't conflict with your answer to the last question to you..