Paul Bearer imposter taking it to far?

[Jack-Hammer]

Personally, I don't see it as being too far. People have to remember that this isn't all real. I'm reminded of some things that Zeb Coulter said in regards to Glenn Beck's comments. Pro wrestling is entertainment that has characters, storylines and plots. Nobody bats an eye if something like this is done as part of the scene of a film or television show. But, for some reason, it's tasteless if it's done in wrestling? I'm sorry, but I just simply don't get it.

William Moody, better known to us as Paul Bearer, was someone who loved wrestling all his life. He loved everything about it from the storytelling to the over the top characters and everything else in between. Moody is someone that, even though he was involved in it for most of his life & was an insider, never stopped being a fan. He was involved in wrestling in his teens as a ringside photographer back in the early 70s and eventually worked for a little while as a wrestler himself after getting out of the Air Force. I, of course, can't say exactly what Moody would thing or say. However, if you remember, it's not as though he wasn't involved in some controversial stuff himself. Remember back in the day when Taker was the "Lord of Darkness"? Moody participated in "depictions of occult rituals" with Taker that royally pissed people off.

There was a poster on the front page that I agree with. Even he's gone, Moody's character is still very much in people's minds. He's being used as a central figure in a major money match at the biggest show of the year between two wrestlers he loved and had tremendous respect for.

In this day and age, so many wrestling fans have become to "smart" for their own good. What I mean by that is that they ignore the choreographed nature of pro wrestling and try to view it as if it's all "real". Then if something they see just doesn't fit in snuggly with reality, they'll complain. For instance, heels are supposed to be dislikable, despicable people. They're supposed to be people that we don't "like". They're supposed to annoy us, aggravate us, make us angry and, most importantly, make us want to see them get what's coming to them. The use of Paul Bearer's memory, his connection to Taker, the urn, putting MASSIVE heat on Punk is old school storytelling at its best & most basic. Did it make me a little uncomfortable? Yes. That's what it was intended to do. Great storytelling is supposed to evoke an emotional response and aid in the enjoyment of whatever you're watching.

If all that's not enough, WWE got permission to do all this from Moody's sons gave WWE their blessings. WWE obviously told them exactly what they had planned, what they wanted to do and how they were going to do it. Dave Meltzer was probably frothing at the mouth last night and will be pissing & moaning about this for the rest of the year.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[chibet]

anybody else thinking last night, if paul didn't die, how in the helllllll would they have ran this storyline ..... it seems to be all paul bearer heat and I am wondering what they planned on being a great build up to punk vs undertaker had paul not died.

 

[ilapierre]

Making fun of death on a PG program is about as heel as a 60 year old man with HIV spitting blood on 10 year old kids and sticking up his middle finger yelling fuck yeah. It's lame.

 

[closet_fan]

anybody else thinking last night, if paul didn't die, how in the helllllll would they have ran this storyline ..... it seems to be all paul bearer heat and I am wondering what they planned on being a great build up to punk vs undertaker had paul not died.

I do wonder this myself. I don't think it would have been as intense as it is now because Punk wouldn't have had much to work with in getting under Taker's skin.

As for the imposter, I thought it was brilliant and THE BEST skit in the storyline.

Screw all the other matches. This one is going to steal the show hands down.

 

[TK Corona]

Paul Bearer isn't a real person.... How do you not realise this? Just because you've watched/grown up seeing a guy named Paul Bearer on TV doesn't make him real. Anything they do to that character be it his likeness or his legacy means nothing because he isn't real.

In the Harry Potter films, the original Guy that played Dumbledore died. They replaced him with a new actor, and then in one of the later films he was killed. Was this disrespectful to the guy who had played him before? No. Because it's a character and a part of a make believe story. It's completely different than, them mentioning or insulting William Moody, since he is an actual person.

 

[The Eighties]

William Moody was an oldschool carny so I am sure he was smiling down on Heyman's cosplay Bearer last night, so no I don't think it was too far. I personally don't like the angle at all as it's too 1995 for me but I don't think you can call it disrespectful if you know his family and the man himself by all accounts would approve of his death being used in this way.

 

[FlairFan2003]

In my mind it is not disrespectfull if the family signed off on it. HOWEVER, it is tasteless and crass.

WWE is purposefully exploiting a man's illness and death for a storyline. It shows an extreme lack of taste and is vulgar. Doing it with the family's permission shows WWE knew how crass it was. The only positive thing I can say is seeking permission indicates they may not have followed through if permission wasnt granted.

This shouldnt surprise anyone though. WWE exploited Guerrero's death, they've had Vince drugging his wife and sleeping with Divas, they exploited Brett Hart's contract fall out & subsequent firing, They've used HHH-Stephanie real life marriage/children as storyline fodder, We've seen Kane blackmail Lita for sex and get her pregnant, Edge parody Ric Flair in a road rage case he was aquitted on, And two words that need no explanation: Katie Vick.

If anything, we should be surprised when WWE takes the high road and doesnt exploit tasteless sensationalism and real life tragedy as in the Benoit case (although that may have been motivated by business needs, trying to offset any potential investigations by the Feds over drugs found in the Benoit home or lawsuits related to concussions, etc).

The whole thing stems from the need to make money. Bringing back Taker so late limited what they could do to build the match and make it interesting to casual fans. The death exploitation angle fell into their laps and they used it.

 

[AmandaJG]

Yes but the family has signed off to let WWE use his death to further the storyline so they don't have any right to cry and complain about anything!!!

 

[lil bitch Kid]

No, it wasn't disrespectful, assuming they had given full disclosure to the family. According to what the Moody boys have said, what was presented to them, and what aired were different. That being said I think William Moody would have loved the angle. Anyone truly offended by it likely thought those were really his ashes in the urn, in which case, warning labels should be removed from everything in their house and natural selection should take its rightful course.

The bottom line is that Punk has a lot of respect for history, and Taker would not have gone with it if he thought it was disrespectful. Yes, the buck starts and stops at Vince, but if Taker says no,guess what, it wouldn't have happened.

 

[Con T.]

For the record, the Moody family commented on last night's ending. Here's what Michael Moody said:

"If anyone is wondering, yes WWE did come to us wanting approval for tonight's storyline. The way it was presented to us was ok. Seeing it on screen was a different story. I don't even know what to say."

Daniel commented:

Totally different

Is it crass? Probably, but you have to know it comes with the territory of WWE. It seems like WWE made some changes to what they presented to the Moody Family.

 

[ITrippedTheShockmaster]

Personally, I don't think it was disrespectful to have Paul Heyman dress up as Paul Bearer for the segment for the simple fact that WWE is already using the CHARACTER Paul Bearer's death in the Punk-Taker angle, with the apparent blessing of the Moody family. Plus, as has been said, Moody would have loved to have his character be used like this. He was very much a great mind in the business, and a keen player in the theatrical side of pro wrestling. What better way to pay homage?

I actually loved the fact that they had Punk march out the Druids, ala Taker. I was expecting Punk to be one of the Druids as soon as they began walking out. I did not, however, expect Heyman to come out in Paul Bearer garb and for them to use his voice. I know it was meant to look like Punk was playing "mind games," but Taker instantly blew up and left the ring to attack. Was it meant to look like they were trying to make Taker believe Bearer was still alive somehow? If so, they failed in that regard. I also wasn't offended by Punk pouring the ashes of the urn out over Taker after beating him with it. It was a good setup to give Punk the heel's mental advantage going into WM29.

When rumors of Punk-Taker for WM29 initially started circulating, I was wondering how they would approach this feud, being that it seemed pretty rushed and forced. There was nothing other than Punk wanting to break "The Streak" that really gripped the viewer. William Moody's death was indeed tragic, but I have to hand it to WWE and all involved for how they integrated his death into the angle pretty seamlessly. Punk ran with the idea of disrespecting Taker, Paul Bearer and The Streak, and having him steal the urn actually works out pretty well, too. The urn hasn't really played much of a role with Taker in recent years. But, WWE sort of changed the urn's meaning a bit from the "power source" for Taker to represent Paul Bearer's memory. All that being said, this seemingly rushed angle has come together pretty well to culminate at WM.

Now, if what was said is true and WWE changed the initial script for last night's segment from what the Moodys were originally presented, then I believe they have every right to be upset in that regard. If WWE is indeed keeping the Moodys in the loop on what they do with this program, they should have told them that they wanted to change the script. Otherwise, I don't see a problem here, folks. Sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

Personally, I don't think it is disrespectful, but it is in poor taste. Something like this, and whether or not it is going to far is always going to be an 'eye of the beholder' type of thing, because people will always stand on different sides of the fence when it comes to how a death is publicly handled, and whether or not money should be made off of it.

The part that worries me, as was previously posted in this thread, is how it was presented to the Moody family, and how it ultimately affects them. Regardless of whether or not it was approved, part of a story line, or something Bill Moody himself would have gone along with, it has to have a very surreal and harsh impact on his children, friends and family.

At the end of the day, it'll do what it was intended to do, make fans want to see C.M. Punk get his ass kicked at Wrestlemania. Sadly, in the process it shows that WWE will probably never truly embrace subtlety, and that creative was never quite sure how to get C.M. Punk over in a feud with Taker prior to the death.

 

[closet_fan]

My thinking is they wound up changing it so Punk dumped the ashes on Undertaker at the end. I doubt they were offended by Heyman's portrayal because, well, that's what Bearer looked like most of the time. THAT part was brilliant. I didn't mind that much about the ashes. It added a nice touch.

People have either been loving this storyline or hating it. Have yet to see anyone in between.

I love it personally.

 

[closet_fan]

I think the angle is well done. Heyman as Bearer on the stage was insane. With all this crazy heat Punk has now surrounding Percy's unfortunate death, it's pretty clear that Taker is going 21-0 on Sunday.

I agree 100%. I think the original plan was to have Punk win. And maybe he still can. But after all the mocking he's done over the last few weeks, I can't see Taker going out a loser.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think it's pretty much a guarantee at this point that Taker is going 21-0 after last night. CM Punk drew massive heat last night and, let's face it, people want to see him get his ass kicked.

This along with the mocking of Lawler's heart attack by Punk & Heyman all but confirms that the Attitude Era will never make a return. Everyone is so overly sensitive these days that it's sickening. For years, I've read posts in which people want WWE to have an edgier content, but they complain when they get it. This isn't "real life". Those weren't the ashes of William Moody that CM Punk poured all over The Undertaker last night. It was an act. It was a scene done for dramatic effect and the fact that it's got so many people up in arms just goes to prove how extremely well the segment was done. Making fans angry and getting them to dislike the elements of certain characters, namely heels, is what great heels have always done. I don't know why everyone will suspend disbelief when it comes to watching television dramas or films that feature fictional storylines & characters but won't do it when the same thing applies to pro wrestling.

I've read comments from a few dirtsheet writers who are raking WWE over the coals and saying how that this could turn people off from watching WWE programming. A lot of these same writers, like Jason Powell at prowrestling.net for instance, were saying the same thing during the Lawler heart attack mocking and the anti-immigration angle with Jack Swagger & Zeb Coulter. Yet, the audience doesn't seem to have gone anywhere.

As usual, this will be forgotten about by this time next week and the milksops will find something new to bitch about.

 

[waylonmercy]

We as the IWC may not feel it went too far, however, the boos that were received when Paul Bearer imposter came out seemed to me as a boo in poor taste. Maybe it's just me. You'd imagine the family okay'd it otherwise I can't imagine WWE being allowed to do this. I mean his contract concluded when he passed away so unless the family still is getting paid his legends contract I can't see them being allowed to use him unless the family is being compensated.

 

[kenvin100]

From reading how the sons took it, I can say the imposter was abit of a stretch. Can you blame how they would feel about it? To see someone on TV who resembled someone who looks similar to your father will create mixed emotions to say the least.

Am I offended? No. Though, I'd like to know what WWE was planning before Bearer's death, cause to me their previous idea must've sucked big time.

 

[ilapierre]

Jackhammer stop posting dude. Your views are stupid.

There's nothing 'over sensitive' about not enjoying an angle mocking death. What part of this is so hard for a redneck Kentucky hillbilly to understand. There is NO ENTERTAINMENT VALUE IN MOCKING DEATH OR A HEART ATTACK. Not because it's disrespectful, but because it doesn't add anything to the product's entertainment value.
End of story.

I loved the Attitude Era. In that era real life deaths were not touched. Don't remember anything done in memory and in mockery of Owen Hart. If Punk were around in 1999, I don't think mocking Owen Hart would be a good career choice. Fans were frothing at the mouth back then and would have ripped Punk to the pieces had he said a thing about Owen Hart. Maybe that woulda made a great heel then but now not so much as everyone seems to enjoy trashing people who've had heart attacks or who've died.

My point though is that in the Attitude Era, nothing was off limits except real life death. In the PG ERA, everything's off limits but real life death isn't. And real life death is off limits for everyone but Punk. That's what makes it lame. WWE is trying so hard to create main event talent but won't let anyone except Punk do things fans confuse as attitude-like. And the thing is mocking Paul Bearer in an era that allows very little blood, no excessive violence, no gang warfare, no tits n ass..it's just lame. It's scripted and carried out step by step as it was written. There's nothing 'attitude era'-like about mocking the dead at all.

The Attitude era will not return because it was of necessity and WWE will never ever be that close to going out of business. It was my favourite time watching wrestling but it was so good because the wrestlers were so good and they were free to do whatever they wanted for shock value. They didn't need to resort to fake heart attacks, since they can't resort to being free to do whatever else to boost ratings. Don't think Ric Flair faking a heart attack back in 1999 live on Nitro did anything but make viewers completely uncomfortable. It wasn't a problem or disrespectful. It didn't translate well to its audience. The 'feigned heart attack' also did not translate well to the RAW audience or to me sitting at home watching it. If you don't believe me, just youtube it and watch the fans all sitting there not reacting. I actually turned the show off and wished Mick Foley was wrestling somewhere for the title against all odds. Because feigning a heart attack is not entertainment. It's ******ed. Like finger poke of doom ******ed.

'Everyone is so overly sensitive these days that it's sickening.' Whatever buddy. Almost everyone on wrestlezone loves what Punk and Heyman have been scripted to do on TV. The more heelish they act, the more the smarks here love it. It's suppose to make them heels but many of us lived during the Attitude Era. This stuff doesn't shock or anger us some of us anymore. It's stuff we've already seen and it's stuff we desperately want back. And when something that resembles it happens in the PG era controlled by script writers, it just doesn't come across right. It's not real enough. It doesn't fall under the realm of 'attitude'. It falls under the realm of 'contrived attitude'. Because a real man with real attitude doesn't mock real life death or heart attacks. Sure the smarky marks online will love it. They have no life and therefore don't value life anyway. Kids will love it because they're as disconnected as ever these days with fucking video games and twitter desensitizing them from reality. I stand by what I believe and mocking real life death or heart attacks does nothing for those of us who don't live in the wrestlezone world who know all the behind the scenes stuff better than the actual talent or the wrestling fan who simply watches it on TV and attends live events.

Punk's essentially an Attitude Era poser.

'The fact that it's got so many people up in arms just goes to prove how extremely well the segment was done. Making fans angry and getting them to dislike the elements of certain characters, namely heels, is what great heels have always done.'

Bullshit Jack Hammer. Nobody is up in arms. Show me where people are up in arms. Everyone seems to LOVE this angle man. So Punk and Heyman aren't getting the reaction they're suppose to be getting. They're actually gaining approval for what they're doing. Don't believe me. Look at the poll. Look at all the comments on this thread. How does everyone praising Punk and Heyman make them heels? I'm confused by the logic.

Milksops aren't people bitching about so-called edgy stuff like making fun of a former WWE manager who hasn't been around in about 20 years. Milksops are those who watch a PG product every week and enjoy it. And then defend everything the PG masters spoonfeed them. WWE could produce excellent programming but they don't and they don't deserve one bit of praise for anything. Especially conning/guilting William Moody's family into going forth with an angle and then changing it so it upsets the family after the fact.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

How does someone vote for "Not Sure". Either you thought it was "going too far" or you didn't

I personally do NOT think it went too far. They are not making fun of the man, they didn't have Heyman-Bearer eating a box of donuts in the back saying "boy I hope I don't die from eating all this" or something. In fact, its almost a tribute to the
"character" of Paul Bearer by doing this. They're showing how important he was to the Undertaker.

And I apologize for not writing 6 paragraph comments. Seems to be the thing to do here but if something jumps out at me, I will comment on it and rarely does it require a dissertation.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

It left me speechless. It was simply too over the top to recreate something as heinous as throwing a friend's ashes on someone. But that wasn't the kicker. The kicker was Heyman portraying Bearer in the bit with the soundbite of Paul Bearer playing over the air.

It went too far and if his son doesn't have words for what happened, then that's all that needs to be said. It went too far from common decency and went into doing anything to get heat on Punk. It makes Punk and the WWE look desperate to try something that bad to get heat.

And for those that will bring up stuff like the Katie Vick storyline, Katie Vick was a fictional character that was never portrayed on TV. Paul Bearer was a character played by a person that died. It's not good for business.

 

[hatehabsforever]

It left me speechless. It was simply too over the top to recreate something as heinous as throwing a friend's ashes on someone. But that wasn't the kicker. The kicker was Heyman portraying Bearer in the bit with the soundbite of Paul Bearer playing over the air.

It went too far and if his son doesn't have words for what happened, then that's all that needs to be said. It went too far from common decency and went into doing anything to get heat on Punk. It makes Punk and the WWE look desperate to try something that bad to get heat.

And for those that will bring up stuff like the Katie Vick storyline, Katie Vick was a fictional character that was never portrayed on TV. Paul Bearer was a character played by a person that died. It's not good for business.

I don't disagree with you very often, Lariat, but I have to disagree with you here. And trust me, I have found fault on multiple occasions with plenty of stuff WWE has done over the years, most recently being the death of Lawler's mother being referenced on the show as well as Lawler's heart attack being mocked.

Katie Vick was a fictional character, but so was Paul Bearer. They weren't mocking William Moody the real person, they were imitating the extremely over the top Paul Bearer character who's entire career was based upon such a bizarre re-creation of a funeral director, complete with the urn and the relationship with the undead character of the Undertaker who regularly returns from the dead, buries people alive, and speaks of sending people to hell.

I'm not sure how Moody died, possibly a heart attack, although I stand to be corrected. If, then, they had "Paul Bearer" come into the middle of the ring and feign a heart attack and "die" in the ring, that would have been distasteful and inappropriate. However, having the surreal character imitated, and arguably paid tribute to, in a manner which was consistent with his fictional character upon which he built a lengthy and profitable career, in a manner which really progressed the storyline and served a specific and tangible purpose, I don't see the problem with it whatsoever.

While we will never know for sure, I would surmise that Moody himself would be pleased, if not flattered, by the fact that his character is still being viewed as relevant and is a significant part of the development of this feud. Let's face it, WWE has always pushed the limits a little, but in this instance, it was so obviously fictional and consistent with the character, I have no problem with it whatsoever.

 

[boozinjedi]

It may have been taken a bit too far,BUT I think this plays into the storyline for and post Wrestlemania,If some reports are correct CM Punk wants/needs to take some time off after mania.

The depths of how far Punk takes it would lead how to far Undertaker will take it(after he gets the win)...kind of like what happened a few years ago with Edge,remember when he chokeslammed him through the ring and Edge wasn't seen for a couple of months...

I got the feeling that something that looks severe will happen to Punk after the match...to the point where they have to get the trainers to bring him out.

 

[Kombuchis]

Paul Bearer was a tv character. William Moody was a wrestling manager.
When William Moody's death was announced the WWE could not simply ignore it indeed they honoured him in a very fitting and poignant way on Raw. The nature of the Paul Bearer character and the current angle involving Punk and The Undertaker allowed the WWE to use the death of Moody, but more importantly in this case the loss of the Bearer character, as part of an ongoing episodic storyline.
The angle has been handled tastefully especially in comparison to the Guerrerro and Pillman deaths and it's worth remembering that nevermind his on screen character, Moody had a very macabre and mirthful sense of humour. Watch his shoot interview with Jim Cornette on youtube for reassurance.

Bearer/Moody would no doubt have loved this angle, his family seems to agree given that they gave it their blessing.

 

[Shocky]

Lulz. It appears that some of the sand that was in that urn has flowed into the vaginas of some of the posters here. Not just here, but the rabble rabbling of the elitist "Wrestling Journalist" around the internet has taken to the net in scores.

It's a fucking angle on a fucking TV Show. Hello people, Paul Bearer was a fictional character. If you can't separate William Moody (who hasn't been mentioned by name once since his passing) vs. the character, you're an idiot. From everything that we've read about William Moody, this is the type of angle right up his alley.

I know this comes across as callous and cold to some of you keyboard warriors out there, but there is one man that the WWE should go to for the final say in these angles, and that's the Undertaker. Moody described his relationship with Taker as brotherly. They were two guys that hit the road together for years.

The amount of butthurt being shown is great. We're talking about a character that has been associated with death for 22 years now. The dudes fucking name was Paul Bearer. The man has been killed on screen several times, and now everyone wants to rage.

It does amaze me that Wrestling Journalist guy, (looking over at the Torch) chooses this angle to say the WWE has finally crossed the line for good. Here's the thing, at the end of the day, you're a fucking journalist for a fake fucking show. You're a fucking blog writer for professional wrestling. So everyone that hates the angle, go back to feeling holier than thou, while us heathens soak up this epic ass whoopin that is going down on Sunday. I'd personally like to thank Punk and the Undertaker for being the sole feud that has tried to sell this pay per view.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I don't disagree with you very often, Lariat, but I have to disagree with you here. And trust me, I have found fault on multiple occasions with plenty of stuff WWE has done over the years, most recently being the death of Lawler's mother being referenced on the show as well as Lawler's heart attack being mocked.

Something he signed off on, too. And no one portrayed Lawler's mom on air either.

Katie Vick was a fictional character, but so was Paul Bearer. They weren't mocking William Moody the real person, they were imitating the extremely over the top Paul Bearer character who's entire career was based upon such a bizarre re-creation of a funeral director, complete with the urn and the relationship with the undead character of the Undertaker who regularly returns from the dead, buries people alive, and speaks of sending people to hell.

But he was a person. William Moody played that character. Nobody played the Katie Vick character except the mannequin in the coffin. Imagine if Rey Mysterio died. Now what if CM Punk had someone come out to pretend to be Rey Rey and mock him? Think about that for a second.

I

'm not sure how Moody died, possibly a heart attack, although I stand to be corrected. If, then, they had "Paul Bearer" come into the middle of the ring and feign a heart attack and "die" in the ring, that would have been distasteful and inappropriate. However, having the surreal character imitated, and arguably paid tribute to, in a manner which was consistent with his fictional character upon which he built a lengthy and profitable career, in a manner which really progressed the storyline and served a specific and tangible purpose, I don't see the problem with it whatsoever.

When his son was left speechless at the actions of Punk and Heyman, that left me with the impression that it went too far.

While we will never know for sure, I would surmise that Moody himself would be pleased, if not flattered, by the fact that his character is still being viewed as relevant and is a significant part of the development of this feud. Let's face it, WWE has always pushed the limits a little, but in this instance, it was so obviously fictional and consistent with the character, I have no problem with it whatsoever.

Be that as it may, his son's the only person that can speak on his behalf and he was left with nothing to say after seeing it on TV.

I see your point, but it's not relevant because William Moody WAS Paul Bearer to a lot of folks. Katie Vick wasn't played by a person.