Parents conceal age of child until he turns 5

[LSN80]

I think this is an interesting case of what's best for the child here. Personally, I'm of split mind of the approach the parents are taking here, as Ill explain later.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/co...childs-gender-five-years-birth-180300388.html

While some couples like to keep the sex of their child private while he's in the womb, United Kingdom couple Beck Laxton and Kieran Cooper kept the sex of their son Sasha secret until he turned five--Even from their closest friends. Mother Kieran noted that she only revealed Sasha's sex because it was a requirement for him to attend school. But why would she and her partner want to keep the sex a secret?

"I wanted to avoid all that stereotyping. Stereotypes seem fundamentally stupid. Why would you want to slot people into boxes?"

Instead of referring to Sasha as a boy, she has been referring to Sasha as "our infant" in the blog she writes. Further, she has allowed Sasha to pick the type of clothes he wears, and the toys he plays with. And despite having to refer to their son as a boy, the parents have bucked the school's rules regarding dress code. Specifically, Sasha prefers wearing female clothing, so he's been wearing a girl's blouse along with pants every day to work. With regards to that, mom Kieran said:

I don't think I'd do it if I thought it was going to make him unhappy, but at the moment he's not really bothered either way. We haven't had any difficult scenarios yet."

I guess I can live with what they're trying to do here, but the execution here is poor. By allowing a five year old boy dress up like a girl for school, they're subjecting him to unnecessary bullying, and the thing they hate most, stereotyping. Five year old children are incredibly impressionable, and being mocked and bullied for how they dress could have quite the impact on their self-esteem. I would understand if they did these things in private--like they did with his name. But in public, I feel they're doing their child a great disservice. The parents further went on to say:

" The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts and cargo pants. Sasha likes to swim in a shiny pink girl's swimsuit. Children like sparkly things. And if someone thought Sasha was a girl because he was wearing a pink swimming costume, then what effect would that have?"

Again, I understand what they're trying to do here. They want to avoid gender-specific roles for their child, and there's something to be said for allowing their child to decide what he wants to be like. I see nothing wrong with allowing their son to play with the toys he wants to, and even dress the way he wants to-at home. But are they doing their child a disservice by not allowing him to develop a true identity as he enters school, while other children will be truly defined as boy or girl? To me, Sasha is a mostly a boy in name only, and at times, it seems like his parents are encouraging him to adopt more feminine traits, then anything. In fairness, they are hoping their son will help to buck trends. However, is a five year old boy the best choice for doing so? Said mom Kieran:

On a macro level, I hope my son sets an example for other parents and makes them reconsider buying their own sons trucks or forcing their daughters into tights. I see how those consumer trappings affect how and who kids play with in the sandbox.

Dr. Eugene Beresin, director of training in child and adolescent psychiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital, said the following in response to the parents choices, and those like them who have made similar decisions:

"To have a sense of self and personal identity is a critical part of normal healthy development. This blocks that and sets the child up for bullying, scapegoating and marginalization.It's more important to raise someone who's confident enough in himself to overcome peer pressure.Maybe Sasha's early years will be character building, maybe he'll have a higher emotional quotient being raised with dual perspectives on gender. Or the reverse could be true: Sasha may have less of a formed identity because of his upbringing, and feel angry at his mom for dressing him in flowery shirts and telling the world about it. Then again, maybe he'll get over it."

To this, the parents have responded:

"As long as he has good relationships and good friends, then nothing else matters, does it?"

Is it important to me to point out that Beck and Kieran are a lesbian couple that are raising Kieran? I agree that having a good relationship with friends and family is important, but it's not the only thing. To me, gender identity is so important at a young age, and I feel in ways he's being robbed of the true understanding that he's a boy. As I said earlier, I have no issue with what the child does in private, but I think it's important for the child to be identified specifically by his gender at such a young age, and allow him to make choices later, when he's reached the age of being able to reason himself. But that's my stance on this:

Thoughts on the parents waiting until five to reveal the gender of Sasha?

Should the parents be allowing Sasha to dress however he chooses at school? Are they opening him up to ridicule and bullying? Are they making a positive statement in doing so? Possibly both?

What would you say to these parents if you had the chance?

Any other thoughts on this are welcome and encouraged.

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't see this as a good thing. There's one major problem with it: not everyone sees the world this way.

Sasha can dress and act however he wants and his family's close friends and his relatives will be fine, but what happens when he goes to school with people who are about 11 and they give him a hard time every day of his life? It's the same issue I have with people that give their children odd names like Rain or Apple. It sounds cool to them but they don't have to live with it every day. This is going to get to become an issue eventually and by raising him to be that way, it's going to make him think that's how everyone is and it's going to cause tension when he sees that he's different that everyone. Not liking this for the most part.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Should the parents be allowing Sasha to dress however he chooses at school? Are they opening him up to ridicule and bullying? Are they making a positive statement in doing so? Possibly both?

Yes, it is quite the risque freedom they are giving to the child, I and I think they have every reason to let him do it. If the boy wants to dress in feminine attires then by all means allow him to. When the consequences (will negative consequences) inevitably arrive, he can't blame his parents for it, thus preventing the possibility of a deteriorating relationship. OF course though this leads to another unconventional entity that comes along with the choice to be different.

Bullying will come to the child, there is no getting around that. When you say "setting him up for it" I don't think that is very accurate, it's rather "will he be setting himself up for bullying. Now a 5 year old child logically doesn't know what he is doing and is curious. When the harassment comes, he can do either of 2 things: blame the parents, or blame himself. If he blames his parents this could lead to some troubles along the way. If he blames himself sure it's a horrible thing and can destroy ones self-esteem, but at least Sasha will still have parental support. Are they making a positive statement? In a way they are indeed. Every child is unique and the freedom to not let others influence mold you or your child's identity into their "ideal" version is what has been given too Sasha. At the same time you can also say that they are making a negative statement. The pain and humiliation that Sasha will have to got through can be blamed is not a very good factor in influencing other parents. Gender roles in a child is always a mixed message, there is no way it can completely right or wrong, it always ends up in the middle

What would you say to these parents if you had the chance?

Mostly I would just give them advice such as "be prepared, but the reward may be worth it in the end". The happiness of letting Sasha choose his life and the despair that comes with humiliation will undoubtedly affect his life, it's like 2 sides that try to get the better of one another and just end up cancelling each other out. I wish the family luck.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

I think this is ridiculous and sets up for bullying in the end. I can't believe parents would do this to a child. Its one thing for a boy to maybe play with girly toys when they are young, but to go as far as putting him in a dress or dressing him in girls clothes?

Are they trying to break the social mold that its ok for girls to be this way but not boys? I know girls are tomboys and whatnot...but come on.

When this kid is older, is he going to show up to school in a dress? What about trying to join some girls club?

Only bad can come from this. For their sake I hope this little experiment works.

 

[LSN80]

Yes, it is quite the risque freedom they are giving to the child, I and I think they have every reason to let him do it. If the boy wants to dress in feminine attires then by all means allow him to. When the consequences (will negative consequences) inevitably arrive, he can't blame his parents for it, thus preventing the possibility of a deteriorating relationship.

I'm not sure I follow this logic. The boy is five, meaning he knows little of the world or how it operates. What are five year olds? Inately selfish. So if given the choice to do whatever the heck they want, they're going to pick what pleases them, regardless of social consequences. Once these become inate behaviors for the child, good luck breaking those habits and the like. All because these parents are more concerned with making a social statement then they are the well-being of their child.

So, why Sasha shouldn't blame his parents when he grows up and deals with rediculous amounts of mockery and ridicule? These parents simply aren't living in the real world.

Bullying will come to the child, there is no getting around that. When you say "setting him up for it" I don't think that is very accurate, it's rather "will he be setting himself up for bullying. Now a 5 year old child logically doesn't know what he is doing and is curious.

How is this child setting himself up for it? If he was 15, and capable of logic or reason, then he'ld be setting things up. Instead, listen to the parents. "Kids like sparkly things, so we'll let our son wear a sparkling pink female bathing suit! Who cares what other people think, he's happy!"

So he's happy for now. Problem is, a five year old is incapable of setting himself up for bullying and mockery. He doesn't understand the ramifications. His parents do. At least, they should. But their social statement is more important then their child's long-term mental health. But let's blame the kid here.

When the harassment comes, he can do either of 2 things: blame the parents, or blame himself. If he blames his parents this could lead to some troubles along the way.

Hopefully he'll realize how skewed his parents views are on life before it's too late. And if he blames them and alienates them, I'd call that a good thing. It means he realizes how his parents set him up for failure by ignoring any and all social cues.

If he blames himself sure it's a horrible thing and can destroy ones self-esteem, but at least Sasha will still have parental support. Are they making a positive statement? In a way they are indeed.

The support of parents who will encourage him with such things as "Don't listen to them! Who cares if you're fifteen, and wearing a bright yellow woman's bathing suit! You're making a statement, and that's all that matters?"

It doesn't take a psychologist to see how this will crush his self-esteem further. How is that making a positive statement, exactly?

Every child is unique and the freedom to not let others influence mold you or your child's identity into their "ideal" version is what has been given too Sasha. At the same time you can also say that they are making a negative statement.

Except for the parents are putting their idealization on how the world should work on their child already. By allowing a child who doesn't understand social cues yet to pick and chose, they're setting him up for failure. Good parents set examples for their children from a young age and teach them social cues. Bad parents ignore gender roles and appropriateness because they're trying to make a statement.

Which kind of parent do you think Sasha's are?

The pain and humiliation that Sasha will have to got through can be blamed is not a very good factor in influencing other parents. Gender roles in a child is always a mixed message, there is no way it can completely right or wrong, it always ends up in the middle

Trying to force a child to be of one sexuality or another is wrong. I think you're confusing sexuality with gender roles. A five year old, as any psychologist could tell you, hasn't developed a true sense of sexuality. But it's never too young to teach a child gender roles. There are things that even from a young age are inappropriate for boys to do, and vice versa for girls. What the parents are doing is essentially abandoning this principle. This is why gender roles are important.

After all, what happens if the child decides he fits in better with girls, and decides he's going to use the girl's room from now on? What do you suppose will happen?

That's why gender roles are important.

 

[BK Styles]

1. They are the parents. At the end of the day, they have every right to do so. To me, while I can see the reasoning behind it, it seems very extreme

2. The parents' logic behind this is reasonable, maybe even sweet, but horribly wrong for a five year old in modern society. As has been stated before, this is setting him up to be bullied.

But apart from that, the thing that troubles me here is that the parents think it is a good decision to give this choice to a child that is at the age where he cannot possibly understand the choice he has. We've all heard about teenagers deciding they want to either change sex or just dress in the clothes of the other gender. That's fine. i can accept that, becvause they are at an age where they can think about their decision. But for the parents to not only give their child this choice, but at such a young age is, in my eyes, very wrong. He doesn't understand the choice that has been given to him.

As for what I'd say to the parents...he's five years old. He deserves a normal childhood, not one with the possibility of bullying for how he chooses to appear without the full knowledge of his actions. The reasoning behind their actions is great if the real world was widely romantacised, but the truth is that boys will struggle to accept him because of how he dresses, and girls will struggle because he's actually a boy. In the longrun, maybe it works, and it doesn't cause any lasting damage, and everything works out. But with all the hope to that in the world, I do not see that happening.

 

[Shotaro]

Their forward thinking outlook is good. I think the idea of what they did was to teach their child about how we are all the same. An admirable idea really however I tnk the way they have gone about it is going to have a detrimental affect on their child's life. After all transsexual and transgendered people are not widely accepted in the UK,in general, though times are changing and I am confident that in a few years it will be a "part of the furniture" so to speak - accepted in much the same way 90% of the UK population is fine with homosexuality.

The problem is that wide acceptance of TV/TS people is not there right now and they are potentially subjecting their 5 year old son to wide mockery. Especially since the parents are likely to find out and anyone who isn't aware, including, potentially, life long friends for Sasha, is going to find out when the child hits puberty.

I seem to recall that a requirement of a legal sex change in the UK is for them to live as the opposite gender for some time (several years IIRC) before they can even receive hormone treatments, so it is entirely possible that Sasha, given the choice, will be having hormone treatment as young as 10.

Personally I don't have a real issue with the idea they have used. However I think that the short and long term effects on Sasha's quality of life could be extremely detrimental. I just find what they have done to be pretty goddamn unethical. Kids form their identity at that age and they are not consciously aware of what options they are choosing. Let kids grow up a little before allowing them to make the kind of decisions Sasha seems to have made as an infant.

Rambly long post. Sorry for that. TL;DR I agree with the principles they were trying to instill but how they have gone about it is unethical and damaging for their kid.

 

[Mustang Sally]

By allowing a five year old boy dress up like a girl for school, they're subjecting him to unnecessary bullying, and the thing they hate most, stereotyping.

Sure, if a person is expected to live his (her) life in a vacuum, their parents can do anything they want with them, I suppose. Unfortunately for this kid, man is a social animal and the world is set up as a place where it's necessary to interact with others on a daily basis. There is behavior that will encourage him to be a free, independent thinking individual....and there is behavior that will make him an outcast.

Until a child is ready to start kindergarten, it's possible to keep him in an insular environment in which what the rest of the planet is doing doesn't matter. The parents can marvel at the "stereotype-free" life they're giving their child. But even if they plan to home-school him, he's going to start meeting up with other people and they're going to make his life a living hell ......and he's not going to know how to deal with it.

No, I'm not saying everyone should be exactly like everyone else, although many people who think of themselves as rugged individualists are actually conforming to others more than they think. Still, if you raise your child to be so radically different than everyone else......if you make him a social misfit in other people's eyes......then don't be shocked and dismayed when he grows up without any notion of how to get along with others in the real world.

In the case of this kid, it would be interesting to see which sex he's attracted to when he comes of age......and even more interesting to see the reaction of the person to whom he's attracted when he approaches them. If things don't work out and he winds up spewing hatred at his parents because he's so different, they'll probably be the most surprised people in the world.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

I'm not sure I follow this logic. The boy is five, meaning he knows little of the world or how it operates. What are five year olds? Inately selfish. So if given the choice to do whatever the heck they want, they're going to pick what pleases them, regardless of social consequences. Once these become inate behaviors for the child, good luck breaking those habits and the like. All because these parents are more concerned with making a social statement then they are the well-being of their child.

I meant that he may blame himself when he gets older. Children at 5 years old even his peers may not at all give him a hard time, considering they are at the same age they may not even know that he is atypical. When children become older and what's normal or not becomes more important to them, then the bullying is most likely to begin. The age Sasha is at that time may coincide or be after he has become more independent and can indeed blame himself for his choices. As far as making a social statement goes, I believe that it's rather giving him the choice to be what he wants to be rather than letting influence come in.

So, why Sasha shouldn't blame his parents when he grows up and deals with rediculous amounts of mockery and ridicule? These parents simply aren't living in the real world.

He shouldn't blame them because he can change his lifestyle when he wants to. Like I said children at 5 can't usually see what's abnormal and what is not, he can alter his views on gender roles if he wants to. Had the parents forced him to become a rather feminine male, then he would have a perfectly good reason to blame them.

How is this child setting himself up for it? If he was 15, and capable of logic or reason, then he'ld be setting things up. Instead, listen to the parents. "Kids like sparkly things, so we'll let our son wear a sparkling pink female bathing suit! Who cares what other people think, he's happy!"

see above.

So he's happy for now. Problem is, a five year old is incapable of setting himself up for bullying and mockery. He doesn't understand the ramifications. His parents do. At least, they should. But their social statement is more important then their child's long-term mental health. But let's blame the kid here.

This brings up the question of what may happen in his parent's mind if later on in life he decided to ascend back into being more of a male than female. He is happy now due to his choices, you are right he isn't aware of the ramifications but he will be one day and at that point he can only look back and see himself as the cause.

Hopefully he'll realize how skewed his parents views are on life before it's too late. And if he blames them and alienates them, I'd call that a good thing. It means he realizes how his parents set him up for failure by ignoring any and all social cues.

From what I have seen, that doesn't happen often. I saw once on an Oprah episode this topic. To me this a loose-loose situation for him, but not for his parents, I doubt he will ever see that and he just like most cases like this will have the "who cares?" mindset.

[/QUOTE]It doesn't take a psychologist to see how this will crush his self-esteem further. How is that making a positive statement, exactly?

They are making a positive statement because it is encouraging gender role freedom. Much like racial equality before it, gender role liberation is an issue that many people feel the need for it to be acculturated into society. However unlike racial equality it has yet to be accepted by many. It's very similar to the issue of gay marriages, a struggle for a demand. They are supporting it thus making it a positive statement in the eyes of certain people.

Except for the parents are putting their idealization on how the world should work on their child already. By allowing a child who doesn't understand social cues yet to pick and chose, they're setting him up for failure. Good parents set examples for their children from a young age and teach them social cues. Bad parents ignore gender roles and appropriateness because they're trying to make a statement.

All children one way or another have many things in common with their parents or guardians. Who is to say that some other parents may intentionally program their child to be a thief, even though they might not socially show it isn't that technically obeying "gender roles" and social appropriateness?

Which kind of parent do you think Sasha's are?

The ones that try to make a statement at the initial expense of the child. Whether Sasha remains that way through he lifetime is yet to be seen.

Trying to force a child to be of one sexuality or another is wrong. I think you're confusing sexuality with gender roles. A five year old, as any psychologist could tell you, hasn't developed a true sense of sexuality. But it's never too young to teach a child gender roles. There are things that even from a young age are inappropriate for boys to do, and vice versa for girls. What the parents are doing is essentially abandoning this principle. This is why gender roles are important.

I don't recall saying anything about sexuality. Not every boy needs to be absolutely masculine, and not every girl needs to be 100% feminine. I don't really care to what extent someone I meet takes gender roles to. Sure it's important to the majority, but in these parents opinion (not mine, I am indifferent) it's not nor well it probalby ever be.

After all, what happens if the child decides he fits in better with girls, and decides he's going to use the girl's room from now on? What do you suppose will happen?

If the parents have no desire to influence or teach him the basic gender rules such as bathroom uses, I am sure someone perhaps school staff may. There will be some boundary set by somone one way or another.

 

[Ryukuma]

I would like to point out, to all of your agreeing with this, that you are all missing a major point that LSN alluded to at the end, and you all may have missed. His parents are lesbians. Now aside from the fact im on the side that he doesn't have the proper mind set as of yet for whats the social norm. The fact that his parents are lesbians, more so takes away his views. Hes around 2 women a day, in his every day life, so he is naturally more likely to want to wear feminine clothing. Like Vinnie said earlier in this thread, what they are doing is completely ridiculous, and should realize that they are heavily influencing him into female clothing because of them being lesbians. I would like for this kid to live a normal life, and choose what he wants for himself, but with parents like those I think the kid has a very hard life ahead.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

Like Vinnie said earlier in this thread, what they are doing is completely ridiculous, and should realize that they are heavily influencing him into female clothing because of them being lesbians.

WHOA! Hold on...time out. Rewind the tape. I never said ANYTHING about it being because they are lesbians.

No child should be FORCED to wear the other genders clothing...period. If THEY want to wear it its a different story. Its not like this is going to turn the kid gay or anything.

Again, in todays society...
Boys/men wearing girls/female clothing = Bad
Girls/Women wearing boys/mens clothing = Perfectly acceptable

Now, Im not saying that we should change, I agree. Mens clothes 99% of them are gender neutral. However, if a man was to wear a dress or dress like a woman there is something wrong with that. Its in the preference of the person though, not based on what their parents did.

 

[Ryukuma]

WHOA! Hold on...time out. Rewind the tape. I never said ANYTHING about it being because they are lesbians.

No child should be FORCED to wear the other genders clothing...period. If THEY want to wear it its a different story. Its not like this is going to turn the kid gay or anything.

Again, in todays society...
Boys/men wearing girls/female clothing = Bad
Girls/Women wearing boys/mens clothing = Perfectly acceptable

Now, Im not saying that we should change, I agree. Mens clothes 99% of them are gender neutral. However, if a man was to wear a dress or dress like a woman there is something wrong with that. Its in the preference of the person though, not based on what their parents did.

You misinterpreted what im saying. I was saying that because the parents are lesbians, that they will naturally influence the child into wearing more feminine clothing, because they are women. The fact the child according to them prefers female clothing at that age, comes as no surprise based off the fact his parents are both females, and he wants to imitate how they dress.

At the end like a few have said, the child isn't at the proper state to think of how he wants to dress, or about making any statements, and his parents shouldn't be looking to try and change today's youth at the expense of their own son. If the child later on wants to do something, then more power to him, but as of now i'm of the opinion that he should be looking like a regular 5 year old boy should look, and that he shouldn't be taking the potential mental harm that this will do to him for later on.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

The two of them come off as very hypocritical while reading over the article, choosing his own clothes is encouraged, but hyper masculine clothing is a big no no, choosing what toys he likes is his decision, but barbie is off limits for no reason other than "she horrible"

This really just sounds a case of be yourself and like what you like, as long as I make the choices for you.

Poor kid really doesn't have a chance, at this rate the very best case scenario is years of therapy for him later while being a social outcast that doesn't talk to anyone other than family.

 

[SavageTaker]

I like the idea the parents are trying to set here but unfortunately, they've gone about it the wrong way for the same reasons I won't bother to restate since most of you have already said them.

Honestly, little kids can be the meanest most hurtful people out there at times and I don't think we realize it either. On the surface it may seem like "kids just being kids," but I think it goes way deeper than that. Kids will try to impress their friends and sometimes show off for the girls by doing several things and unfortunately one of those ways is by showing how they're superior to other boys their age. They illustrate that by bullying other kids both physically and mentally. Sometimes emotionally as well.

As much as I hate to say and as much as I hope I'm wrong, I don't see a good future in school for Sasha unless his parents rethink their train of thought here. If I've learned anything during my time on this Earth, it's that kids will bully other kids regardless of what the effects could be and I think that's what's going to be the case here. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong because things like this stick with you forever and it can really affect you when you're an adult which I don't think anyone would wish upon this innocent child.

If I was able to, I'd tell the parents of Sasha that I really do like the idea but they need to think of what could happen to their child and maybe going against what they believe is the best option for the future and safety of the child. They don't have to completely follow what society says is the role for boys and girls, but maybe dressing Sasha up for school with boy clothing is the smartest thing to do in order to avoid future ramifications. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to go against our beliefs for others in society and for the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people.

 

[ABMorales787]

This isn't a good example in any way, shape or form. That's some nasty manipulation the boy has been exposed and used for. I really wish to know just what "stereotypes" could these folks possibly be referring to that actually warrants hiding a child's gender. Boy's shouldn't always wear pants?

Sheesh, don't you think the boy will some day wonder why all the other boys only wear pant's and look at him weird? I realize there's a whole sexuality barrier thing and all, but do you really need to dress your kid in the opposite gender to support it? I don't suppose his parent's do the same and dress as men too do they?

 

[¡Roján!]

I think the extra detail about them being lesbians make a huge difference. It shouldn't, but, unfortunately it does. Now, I don't know whether they're somehow trying to set him up to be the world's youngest gay child, but this reeks of a publicity stunt. A quick way for two parents to cash-in on the fact that they're lesbians and that they have a son was the first thing that popped out at me the moment I read the thread.

Anyway, all conspiracies aside, whether it be a stunt or not is trivial, as the parents are clearly bonkers no matter which way you look at it. Subjecting their son to constant bullying and possible mental problems down the line is not in the best interest of any child, nor is it indicative of good parenting in any way.. I just can't understand why they'd want to do this. Sure, the principle of not stereotyping is sound... in hippy world. In the real World, people get judged all the time. In any case, they should be teaching their child how to deal with the stereotyping he's going to inevitably (and unfortunately) get for having two gay parents, not teaching him to embrace his individuality at the tender age of five. You know, the age when you are about as impressionable as a footprint. He needs guidance and rules, just like those in real adult life do. There's just no way this is going to end well for both parties involved.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I'll take the KB route here: I think you need to teach someone about how society already works, and how to integrate into it before you teach them to be a free-thinker. This kid is going to have a rough time growing up on the edge of society because of his mothers overbearing nature. I understand that raising your kid like this is well-intended, and I don't necessarily fault her for thinking this way, but I don't think it's the right way to raise a child.

 

[LSN80]

I would like to point out, to all of your agreeing with this, that you are all missing a major point that LSN alluded to at the end and you all may have missed. His parents are lesbians.
.

Nah, not really what I was saying. I was simply posing the question to all of you if this fact was relatable in any way to the story. To some, it might be, and to you, it obviously is. I wasn't alluding to, or making a point about it, simply asking a question is all.

I meant that he may blame himself when he gets older. Children at 5 years old even his peers may not at all give him a hard time, considering they are at the same age they may not even know that he is atypical.

When you see 15 kids dressed in normal swimtrunks, and one boy dressed in a woman's swimsuit, how do you think he's going to be recognized? Do you think his peers will just see him as "typical". No, they'll notice the weird kid wearing the sparkling pink bathing suit, and give him a hard time.

The age Sasha is at that time may coincide or be after he has become more independent and can indeed blame himself for his choices. As far as making a social statement goes, I believe that it's rather giving him the choice to be what he wants to be rather than letting influence come in.

But they're the ones influencing him by not teaching him what's appropriate. And again, why or how should he blame himself for what's being forced upon him by his parents? They're forcing him to be abnormal by wearing whatever is colorful, and women's clothes to school. Further, they're not even allowing him the chance to wear masculine clothing. Goodness, how can you not see that a child is not going to see what choices he made as a 5 year, completely influenced by his parents, as his fault? This is beyond comprehension that you see it this way. It's his parents who are to blame, and any rational person should be able to see this.

He shouldn't blame them because he can change his lifestyle when he wants to. Like I said children at 5 can't usually see what's abnormal and what is not, he can alter his views on gender roles if he wants to. Had the parents forced him to become a rather feminine male, then he would have a perfectly good reason to blame them.

They are forcing him to be an effeminate male. They're dressing him in women's swimsuits and female blouses while banning "manly clothing", as they put it. Parents are to instruct their child to as to what's age appropriate now, such as "If you're a guy, dress like a guy." They're doing the opposite in allowing him to dress like a woman. They're most certainly to blame here.

This brings up the question of what may happen in his parent's mind if later on in life he decided to ascend back into being more of a male than female. He is happy now due to his choices, you are right he isn't aware of the ramifications but he will be one day and at that point he can only look back and see himself as the cause.

But a rational human being wouldn't look back at themselves as the cause, they'ld see that it was their parents. Unless this kid lives in oblivion for the rest of his life, he's going to see that his moms dressed him up in sparkly clothing and women's blouses to "avoid stereotypes" when they're doing exactly that: Stereotyping him. This is not truly of his choice in any way, and he won't be "blaming himself" when this comes full circle. He's freaking 5. He doesn't have the ability to make thought out choices, so whyn in the world would he think he caused himself this grief when he gets older? Simple answer? He won't. He'll see his parents as the root cause, which they are.

From what I have seen, that doesn't happen often. I saw once on an Oprah episode this topic. To me this a loose-loose situation for him, but not for his parents, I doubt he will ever see that and he just like most cases like this will have the "who cares?" mindset.

He may have a "who cares" mindset now, but when he's bullied, mocked, and perhaps even beat up, he darn sure will care. The reason this doesn't happen often? It's inappropriate.

They are making a positive statement because it is encouraging gender role freedom. Much like racial equality before it, gender role liberation is an issue that many people feel the need for it to be acculturated into society. However unlike racial equality it has yet to be accepted by many. It's very similar to the issue of gay marriages, a struggle for a demand. They are supporting it thus making it a positive statement in the eyes of certain people.

Gender role freedom at his age isn't a positive thing, it's a negative one. When he gets to the age of logic and reason, then you let him decide for himself. Only when logic and reason are things someone is capable of is the time when gender role freedom is acceptable. Age 5 is not.

All children one way or another have many things in common with their parents or guardians. Who is to say that some other parents may intentionally program their child to be a thief, even though they might not socially show it isn't that technically obeying "gender roles" and social appropriateness?

Being taught to be a thief has nothing to do with gender roles. Gender roles are what differentiate boys from girls. Examples of this are the way the dress, the toys they're permitted to play with, and understanding the difference between being a boy and a girl. You're referring to "taking on characteristics of" parents, which has nothing to do with gender roles.

The ones that try to make a statement at the initial expense of the child. Whether Sasha remains that way through he lifetime is yet to be seen.

It's not really a matter of if Sasha remains one throughout his lifetime, it's what's engrained in him as a child. I don't know about you, but until around age 10, my parents made most of my life decisions for me. What I wore, who I interacted with, and so many other age appropriate things. If he's being taught to ignore age appropriateness now, it's going to be tough to be untaught. The "whatever makes you happy" idea is not an ideal, it's a social statement, and a poor one at that.

I don't recall saying anything about sexuality. Not every boy needs to be absolutely masculine, and not every girl needs to be 100% feminine. I don't really care to what extent someone I meet takes gender roles to. Sure it's important to the majority, but in these parents opinion (not mine, I am indifferent) it's not nor well it probalby ever be.

Im not saying you did say anything about sexuality. Im saying what you consider gender roles is actually sexuality, which are two completely different things.

If the parents have no desire to influence or teach him the basic gender rules such as bathroom uses, I am sure someone perhaps school staff may. There will be some boundary set by somone one way or another.

This seems like an "oh well' statement, as if it shouldnt matter who teaches a child these things. The problem is, it does matter. The parents are the ones who should be teaching these things, it's not the school's responsibility. If they indeed "leave it up to the school", they're terrible parents, not ones simply allowing their child to "express" himself.