Orton has left a void...It's really time for HHH to go heel

[Caitiff]

Stacy did NOT spit the beer in his face. All she did was give the bitter beer face and refuse to drink it. You fail. Just give it up.

The one I saw had her take a swig, and spit it in his face. Stunner soon followed. Maybe there was a second one that I mised, but I don't remember that individual moment. But, since I can't find any video of it on youtube, I have to go with my own memory, which, due to age and hits to the head, might not be what I think it is. But, even if I'm wrong on that single incident, that doesn't really prove the entire argument wrong.

But, I do like how you latch on to a single sentence, and claim a "fail." That's really nice, by the way. There's a term for that in politics. What is it? Hold on. I'm trying to remember... Oh, yeah. "Strawman argument."

You've never actually tried to counter the actual point I've held since the beginning. That point, again, being that Orton isn't a good face. So, by all means, if you've got more than strawman comments, bring them on. I welcome debate. But, since that seems to be the last thing you're interested in, I'm done wasting my time on you.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Yes. Stacy spit the beer in Austin's face. Last I checked, spitting on someone is assault. Assault is physical provocation.

Lita? Well, to be honest, I had forgotten about that. Let me look that up on youtube. Hold on. Wow. He whooped her ass with that chair. But, to be honest, that was WWE basically begging and pleading for fans to hate Austin. Keep in mind, until that moment, Austin was the company's topface. That was the only reason this happened. I think that people in the audience knew that.

Does that mean that Austin was some kind of great guy, and we should have cheered him? Of course not. But, you deride Austin's character as evil,. which it was. Yet, you're defending Orton because "that's part of his character." That's the entire problem. Hitting the woman wasn't even the issue, to me. But, you're defending the molestation afterwards.

While I agree with you that people are cheering Orton in spite of his actions, I do see that WWE is writing him into something more family friendly, which I think is a huge mistake. Face Orton should never exist. Leave him a tweener, and able to work with anyone. That allows him to stay with the heel actions that made him popular, and just not care about who he fights. It would also make him more unpredictable, since there's no "face/heel"line to determine who he attacks.

Being a tweener was okay in the Attitude Era but it just won't cut it now in the PG Era. Kids will look at Orton and think, "He's a good guy but he does bad things. I don't know whether to love him or hate him." 100% face or 100% heel is the only two ways Orton should go and tweener should not be an option.

 

[CobraVenom]

The one I saw had her take a swig, and spit it in his face. Stunner soon followed. Maybe there was a second one that I mised, but I don't remember that individual moment. But, since I can't find any video of it on youtube, I have to go with my own memory, which, due to age and hits to the head, might not be what I think it is. But, even if I'm wrong on that single incident, that doesn't really prove the entire argument wrong.

But, I do like how you latch on to a single sentence, and claim a "fail." That's really nice, by the way. There's a term for that in politics. What is it? Hold on. I'm trying to remember... Oh, yeah. "Strawman argument."

You've never actually tried to counter the actual point I've held since the beginning. That point, again, being that Orton isn't a good face. So, by all means, if you've got more than strawman comments, bring them on. I welcome debate. But, since that seems to be the last thing you're interested in, I'm done wasting my time on you.

Oh but I did counter it. Remember when I said that there is a fine line between a face and a heel? There goes your old age acting up again.

 

[STL]

I think that RAW can afford to have Triple H stay face even though I would like to see him go heel. Here's why, The Draft is coming up in a month or so and that would solve having too many faces on one show. Also, because Randy Orton is not your traditional babyface. He's a hybrid so I don't see Triple H, Cena, and Orton being a problem in the long run.

 

[Big Sexy]

With the draft coming up in a few weeks this talk of turning people is basically irrelevant. I'm fairly certain Orton or one of Raw's other big faces will probably be drafted to Smackdown. With the Undertaker most likely taking time off, Edge is really the only main event face left on Smackdown so moving Orton or Triple H makes sense.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Right now, the main event and upper midcarders in the WWE are too one-sided.

FACES: 13
HHH
Undertaker
John Cena
Randy Orton
Edge
John Morrison
Rey Mysterio
Christian
Kofi Kingston
Kane
MVP
R-Truth
Shelton Benjamin

HEELS: 9
Big Show
Jack Swagger
The Miz
Sheamus
Ted DiBiase
Batista
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
Drew McIntyre

13 to 9, and look at the names. If you try to match them up, DiBiase is more on the Shelton Benjamin and R-Truth lower end of the scale, and the likes of Sheamus, McIntyre, Swagger, and Miz are all around Mysterio's level, not Cena or Taker or HHH. Basically in the WWE you've got 3 true main event heels (Batista, Jericho, and Punk) but 5 true main event faces (Taker, HHH, Cena, Edge, Orton). The upper midcard and solid midcard becomes a bit more even but still a bit more heavy on the face side.

This means to me that a few things are bound to happen:

1) HHH either turns heel or Orton is moved over to Smackdown. They can't have Orton, HHH, and Cena all as the top faces on Raw with only Edge and an absentee Taker on Smackdown (unless they really want to push Morrison, which I'd be game for).

2) Christian might turn heel. Yes, he gets a huge pop as a face, and yes, he has quite a bit of feuds left that he can still have (Miz, McIntyre, Punk, Jericho, Batista) but he would be the most interesting heel turn of the upper midcarders. Morrison is doing well as a face and if they turn him, it'll kill his momentum. Kofi and Mysterio just won't work as heels. Kane as a heel won't create any drastic special feuds. However, Christian will. They've said they want to do a Christian/Orton feud and we know if Christian is heel and Edge is face there's a likelihood of Edge/Christian, as well as Cena/Christian, HHH/Christian, Morrison/Christian, Mysterio/Christian, Kofi/Christian, Taker/Christian. Quite a bit more exciting, right?

3) MVP will turn heel. Although I'm fairly certain about Christian's turn and doubtful about HHH's, I think there's a VERY strong likelihood of MVP's turn. He had some momentum as a face when he started off on Raw, but they quickly forgot to actually use him and put him in feuds, and he went straight into the shitter and hasn't been able to bounce back ever since. He went from "when's this guy going to win a world title already?" to "this guy can't even get a midcard title shot announced pre-ppv". I think MVP has a guaranteed heel turn in his cards and quite possibly a draft over to Smackdown as well seeing as Raw's writers just aren't too fond of him.

 

[Caitiff]

Being a tweener was okay in the Attitude Era but it just won't cut it now in the PG Era. Kids will look at Orton and think, "He's a good guy but he does bad things. I don't know whether to love him or hate him." 100% face or 100% heel is the only two ways Orton should go and tweener should not be an option.

I disagree. There is room for tweeners in professional wrestling. The Undertaker, for instance, is the epitome of today's wrestling tweener. With very few exceptions, he comes out, and annihilates whoever's in front of him, without much regard for the identity of the person. The only thing that keeps him a face, in this regard, is the writers only put him with heels. It's nothing about the Undertaker character that's a good guy.

"But, the Undertaker is one of the few guys left from the Attitude Era." What's your point? I sincerely believe that Orton's character could be changed very slightly, to include going after heels as well as faces. Turning him face limits the character. Which, sadly, I think they've stumbled upon a gold mine with Orton's current character, for better or worse, and are about to carpet bomb it.

And, that wouldn't make Orton a good guy who does bad things. That's an extremely narrow view of this. Look at it as more of a comic book, for a second. The Joker is a heel. Superman is a face. What about Batman? Deadpool? Wolverine? Blade? Spawn? Doing what needs to be done doesn't make someone a good or bad person. Nor does only being mad at one particular set of people. Orton's "morals," such as they are, don't have to change. I think it was a huge mistake for his character to not have him drill Cena with an RKO after that tag match. A tweener is someone that you may or may not like, but you can respect that person.

Admittedly, my thoughts on Orton are grounded in more of an 1980s or late 1990s mentality. But, since it seems that full face and full heel are the only options available, and changing his character is the only way to make his a full face, there's no way that a face turn is a good idea, with the wrestling product the way it is right now. You'll just have a second John Cena, which is about the worst thing you can do in one company.

 

[KillBill]

I was thinking about this. Someone mentioned its very hard to be 100% face or heel. Had Orton come out during HBK's retirement speech, go to shake his hand, then RKO him, have him yell at the crowd, saying, "you remember who I am?", he would be 100% heel.

I've said it several times already, HHH wants to be a face for the rest of his career, probably cause of his kids, so put Miz in there. Hes got star written all over him, his promo's are great, he draws a ton of heat, and hes constantly improving.

 

[Morpheus101]

Now that HBK is gone, HHH really needs a heel turn and being a heel is what HHH does best. It's obvious that Orton and Cena are going to be the top faces of WWE. HHH's character will stagnate if he remains a face and being a heel is what he does best. Perhaps he could even align himself with Batista, to form a new "Power Trip" as he did so successfully with Stone Cold a few years ago? Either way, it's going to be time for HHH to be a top heel again, but WWE should wait until maybe Summerslam to do this.

 

[John Henry]

HHH should b nice 4 a change, orton deserves it

 

[future admin]

Now there has been alot of talk about Triple H should Turn heel and that, and I think I know how it could be portrayed. I was thinnking to myself the other day while watching raw, where is the sheamus HHH feud going, then I thought, the way most feuds go. Then after more thought, I said, This could lead to the game turning heel and aligning himself with sheamus, since they are buddies in real life, and when triple H likes what he see's what he sees will get a major push. Him Aligning himself with Sheamus to turn heel would be great, tag team or just alliance, doesn't matter.
Oh and don't say he should start another stable like evolution. Don't get me wrong, I loved evolution, but WWE nowadays doesn't know how to make or play a stable, it will just be demoralizing

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

To be honest, now that HBK is gone and Orton has turned face, I don't want to see HHH turn heel. Who will he feud with if he's a heel? We've seen Cena/HHH tons of times and it's boring now, we've seen HHH/Orton so many times it'll evoke suicide lol, etc. Frankly, I'd rather see HHH stay a face and feud with the likes of Batista, Punk, Swagger, McIntyre, and the main eventer that I think is going to turn heel instead of HHH...Christian.

 

[Dragonfirez]

I would truly love to experience a Triple H and Sheamus team, I believe it would be a great opportunity to prove that Sheamus is main event material

 

[Judah's Lion]

leave Triple H a face for now and keep feuding with Sheamus. maybe at Extreme Rules, Triple H could really put Sheamus over by getting "injured" in the match in an effort to really show how dominant the big Irish guy can be.

Triple H is a great heel, but maybe his next and best heel turn will come in some years when he gets "angry" about the "forced" retirement of HBK or takes over WWE from Vince as he's getting closer to retirement.

IMO, there are a lot of guys Triple H could put over as a face a lot easier than if he were a heel, at least as far as storylines go. there are some great heels out there that need a good put over (assuming Triple H would go for it), such as Miz, Swagger, Dibiase, and a host of others. just makes more sense to keep Triple H a face for now.

 

[TripleH2010]

i think right now with hbk's emotional farewell address still fresh in everyone's minds, triple h turning heel would not be the best thing for anyone, espicially since triple h made a heartfelt speech towards his lingtime friend and ally and then got attacked by Sheamus from behind, especially since sheamus is already a heel and they are feuding with each other and with sheamus attacking triple h so often in the past couple of months , i just don't see triple h truning heel, at least not yet

 

[Amarillo del Bosque Verde]

I don't see it happening anytime soon. Actually, I don't see it happening at all. I can see Triple H feuding with Taker for WM27, but he couldn't be a heel if he's standing up for HBK's honor. Plus, with Cena and Orton both face, this gives HHH the oppurttunity to feud with new people.

 

[Bartlett Finchley]

I think it would be great to have Triple H and Sheamus team up as ultra heels. I dont care for Triple H as a face and I think Sheamus is a great heel who just needs that extra push. Thats why he should have won at WM. Triple H and Sheamus would be a monster dual.

 

[Marko Markovic]

You do know that Orton is a tweener and not a face
Now on subject

Its not the time yet,lack of big heels in the Raw roster could easily be solved with the upcoming draft,besides they got now Sheamus as one of the major heels and Batista who is in officialy on Smackdown but he appears on Raw and not on Smackdown

HHH shouldnt turn heel any time soon.I agree that his heel turn would be refreshing for his gimmick because he is the face long time but in my opinion it should be later in the year because right now there is no point in doing that.Besides that what is the point to turn him heel when you guys would be bitchin soon enough about it when he becomes all-time maineventer with that heel turn

 

[Ferbian]

While I would really like to see Triple H as a heel again, I do feel that it's not the right time to do it, he's feuding with Sheamus, and while you do make a valid opinion for how we could make the turn, I simply don't see it, I don't see WWE going that way, I see WWE elevating Sheamus through a proper feud with Triple H and perhaps some others, but I don't see Triple H turning heel right now, I really don't.

 

[Vanderhook]

I think something cool that could happen is if HHH sells Sheamus at Extreme Rules. Then afterwards he tells Sheamus he is impressed with him and actually has sees himself in Sheamus. HHH would take a sort of mentor role towards Sheamus and they'd have an alliance. They'd both be tweeners with Sheamus a little more towards heel and HHH more on face. I think this could be a good way to really sell Sheamus and also give HHH something cool to do.

EDIT: Haha I've been thinking more on this storyline, and I think it could end up with Sheamus vs Cena with HHH helping Sheamus. Facing Cena is a good way to sell a tweener type because Cena is so divisive. Sheamus wins the championship, but immediately is betrayed by HHH who goes full heel and then a face push for Sheamus, who goes in an uneasy truce with Cena to get rid of HHH... maybe the story could end with a Triple threat championship?

 

[XgringolocoX]

Nope. I've seen the HHH heel over and over and over and over and over....
HHH is a part of the precious few truely old guard wrestlers in the WWE. HHH, Taker, Jericho, Kane, Regal, Finlay, Edge, Hardy. Who else would you throw in there? I don't include Batista, Cena, or Orton cause they haven't been around as long. Also, cena and Orton will be the guys for a while yet, Batista I can see retiring sooner due to his age.
Back on topic.....WWE needs to let Shaemus be the new monster heel that HHH was. I really don't see the need for a heel turn here. I think HHH would be better used as a face against Casper. Shaemus needs to beat the holy living hell outta HHH once and for all. This is what will help his character and career. If HHH was truely behind this guy it's the right thing to do.

 

[dethgar]

He absolutely can't turn heel, for the same reasons that Cena can't be turned. Money. Triple H rakes in a lot of cash, 2nd to Cena or 3rd to Cena and Taker respectively. With this family friendly era going on, most things are cut and dry. Triple H is a face. Randy Orton, regardless of his past, is a face.

The truth is that amongst us IWC'ers, the WWE can't turn anyone. We see them one way or another, its the pure marks that matter. If the marks and smarks agree on Orton as a face, and want Triple H as a face, it's time for another name to come up.

 

[asslber]

I'd like to see a John Cena & Randy Orton .vs .Sheamus & HHH feud, then down the road see a Fatal 4 Way match at a PPV between those 4 for the WWE Title.

 

[NoDamnMercy]

Now let me start off by saying that I love HHH. I have always liked him as a wrestler. Heel, face, champion, in charge of the show, doesnt matter, hes great at everything!

I think the reason they need to turn him heel is to make some great matches with Cena.

Now I'm not really a fan of Cena matches. Great person, bad preformer. Great on the mic though. Put him against HHH and I bet you it'll be damn good feud. Both are amazing on the mic, HHH can win the first few, Cena win the next few, HHH win one in a HUGE upset, then Cena for the win to end the feud.

Opinions?

 

[Honkey_Kong]

Now let me start off by saying that I love HHH. I have always liked him as a wrestler. Heel, face, champion, in charge of the show, doesnt matter, hes great at everything!

I think the reason they need to turn him heel is to make some great matches with Cena.

Now I'm not really a fan of Cena matches. Great person, bad preformer. Great on the mic though. Put him against HHH and I bet you it'll be damn good feud. Both are amazing on the mic, HHH can win the first few, Cena win the next few, HHH win one in a HUGE upset, then Cena for the win to end the feud.

Opinions?

HHH can make anyone look good in the ring. I've been a huge fan of his for many years now. I think he's better as a heel. His heel antics are way more interesting to watch and his manipulations too than his face side.

They shouldn't be afraid of not being able to sell HHH merchandise either if they turn him heel. I bet his merchandise sales would increase.

But having him lose in a feud to Cena? Come on, that's not how I would do it. Have HHH be a mega heel and have him and Cena go back and forth winning matches, then in a Last Man Standing, have HHH crack Cena with a sledge hammer and win the feud. It wouldn't bury Cena because HHH had to use a sledge hammer to finish him off and then Cena can go back to being a somewhat believable underdog.