[Official] Disco Nation

[gg inferno]

where is the complaint thread?

 

[Talon_DR]

I do understand what Disco was saying but don't totally agree.

"Just because someone loses a competition doesn't make them losers"

I would completely agree with the statement about nobody caring about losers if you were referring to squash matches, which you might have been.

There is a ranking system for wrestlers. At times one wrestler will be better than the other. One wrestler will have to look weaker than the other. Not having this creates a lack of centralized focus on individual wrestlers.

The problem I have with dirty finishes is that TNA uses them all the time. The fans are accustomed to many things in TNA...kicking out of finishers, gimmick matches and unclean finishes. Those are three guarantees in life. I understand that clean finishes in EVERY match is not needed and gets boring, but interference should be uses less because the more it happens the more fans become de-sensitized to it.
------------------------------------
EXAMPLE OF BOOKING CLEAN FINISHES
_______________________________
In the recent feud between Consequences Creed and Petey Williams:

-Consequences Creed defeated Petey Williams in a non-title match with a clean finish. Petey Williams isn't a loser. This makes the fans believe that Creed has the ability to take the title off of Petey.

-At Hard Justice they fought again however Sheik Abdul Bashir interfered costing Creed the match. What the finish did was begin an angle between Bashir and Creed and establish Bashir as a name. It didn't do anything for Creed or Petey (the latter looked weak for not being able to get the job done by himself. Couldn't Petey have won the match by capitalizing on the inexperience of Creed (who by the way made a mistake by not pinning Petey after the Creed-DT). After the match they could have Abdul do his little thing, accomplishing more in one match.

Clean finishes hurt the loser, maybe. Dirty Finishes don't elevate the winner.
_______________________
Did Samoa Joe look better after beating Booker T with help from Jeff Jarrett's guitar?


___________________________
Now I am not one to rate matches with a star system, I prefer grading, however I have become accustomed to the standard and the special.

STANDARD:
Singles Matches (with clean pinfalls/submission/DQ's/Countouts), Tag Team Matches.

SPECIAL:
Interference, Gimmick Matches (including Triple Threats, Fatal Fourways and matches like Ultimate X)

 

[Y 2 Jake]

who keeps deleting my posts? I don't want to have to ask Cash to find out for me.

I deleted one of the post you made in the TNA death thread. It was relating to me, and not to the topic.

This is your thread, in here you can post whatever you want. But any off topic posts you make in any other thread will get deleted.

 

[jimufctna24]

matt hughes would be a perfect example of what i'm talking about. he's been getting hammered, and pretty much has only one fight left against serra. if he had been making a better showing of himself he could still probably draw,but he hasn't. could you imagine if christian cage had been as decisively beaten as matt hughes has in his past four fights, and trying to keep him in the mix with the top guys, which you can do now because he's been protected?

Even with his losses matt hughes will still draw with matt serra just watch it has nothing to do with being on the way out its to do with the rivalry and tension which draws fans they can overlook losses in mma and no one really knew ken shamrock was on his way out until after his third fight with tito and he still came back after that the fact that hughes is on his way out does not matter and will not effect the buyrate either way nor the losses both men sustained to much of a point its the rivarlry and there chracters that are going to draw.

It is different in wrestling though i agree am no expert i admit but what you said about christian made sense even though i prefer clean finishes i understand how they can hurt the dude he loses

 

[gg inferno]

I deleted one of the post you made in the TNA death thread. It was relating to me, and not to the topic.

This is your thread, in here you can post whatever you want. But any off topic posts you make in any other thread will get deleted.

what an incredibly hypocritical move that was. it was absolutely relating to the topic, which was how absurd the topic was. and someone deleted a post i made in the impact review thread which was unwarranted. when are you guys going to get it through your thick skulls that people want to read WHATEVER i post? stop pretending that you're more important than you are.

 

[gg inferno]

and btw, i can't believe your crummy soccer team beat aston villa

 

[Marty2Hotty]

Glenn, I posted this column on another tna fan board and it's getting a lot of controversy.. some are just bashing you based on your wrestling career. I'm like what does that have to do at all with what you said. Try and debate what he said rather than rip his wrestling career apart... Here is what I wrote:

I honestly couldn't read through most of the replies to this thread, lol...

I just want to say that I agree with Glenn for th emost part when it comes to clean finishes. I just don't want to see it when I"m watching a wrestling program - see my examples for Joe vs Booker T. I mean, they built Booker T and I like his character, his promos, his locker room and to have a guy liek Joe just beat one of my favroutie heels clean just makes me go "damn, now Booker just lost clean to a guy they're forcing down our throats"

I know it's not real.. I don't need someone to win clean.. i just want the soap opera to continue. and they did progress the story with Sting/Jarrett being involved, which I'm happy]

Example, even Arquette vs DDP vs Jarrett.. Arquette nailed DDP with the guitar

Nash vs Jarrett.. the awesome Goldberg hype. Goldberg turns on Nash.. WHOO HOO

To me, that's what I enjoy watching.. to see where the story continues. Wrestling is a week to week soap opera and you have to see where it goes..

You may disagree with me, but that is simply WHY I WATCH WRESTLING

 

[gg inferno]

Glenn, I posted this column on another tna fan board and it's getting a lot of controversy.. some are just bashing you based on your wrestling career. I'm like what does that have to do at all with what you said. Try and debate what he said rather than rip his wrestling career apart... Here is what I wrote:

I honestly couldn't read through most of the replies to this thread, lol...

I just want to say that I agree with Glenn for th emost part when it comes to clean finishes. I just don't want to see it when I"m watching a wrestling program - see my examples for Joe vs Booker T. I mean, they built Booker T and I like his character, his promos, his locker room and to have a guy liek Joe just beat one of my favroutie heels clean just makes me go "damn, now Booker just lost clean to a guy they're forcing down our throats"

I know it's not real.. I don't need someone to win clean.. i just want the soap opera to continue. and they did progress the story with Sting/Jarrett being involved, which I'm happy]

Example, even Arquette vs DDP vs Jarrett.. Arquette nailed DDP with the guitar

Nash vs Jarrett.. the awesome Goldberg hype. Goldberg turns on Nash.. WHOO HOO

To me, that's what I enjoy watching.. to see where the story continues. Wrestling is a week to week soap opera and you have to see where it goes..

You may disagree with me, but that is simply WHY I WATCH WRESTLING

if they try to bash my career, explain to them that my last year at wcw i probably made more than the entire ROH roster combined made in 2007

 

[Marty2Hotty]

i posted your column, and within a day, it grew to 4 pages of really heated replies.. really fast

i posted your reply on the board haha

I dont want to go in detail of what they said because like i posted, I can't bother to go through them. It was mostly non-sensical replies and I dont think they can debate what you posted because you nailed everything. I'll PM you the link, but I think you have to sign-up. I can't post the link here because that's advertising and i got warned for theat beforew

I personally wouldn't have written everything that you wrote, but as a wrestling fan, i personally dont want to see clean finishes because i dont believe it's one guy "going over" another guy becasue i know it's all predetermined. I just want to see things continue.. and progress... It's incredibly easy to write "wrestler A pins wrestler B in 17 minutes", but writing all the stuff, the run-ins, the intrigue, the story in the match is where the creativity comes int. the aftermath and where the story goes from there is what matters and keeps the viewers interested.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

what an incredibly hypocritical move that was. it was absolutely relating to the topic, which was how absurd the topic was.

In what way was it hypocritical?

The first post you made was relating to the topic. The second was relating to me and the shit threads I make. So there was no need for it to remain there. You could have easily posted it in here.

and someone deleted a post i made in the impact review thread which was unwarranted.

I have no idea about that.

when are you guys going to get it through your thick skulls that people want to read WHATEVER i post?

I doubt very much that anybody s intrested in reading a post about me.

stop pretending that you're more important than you are.

Likewise, you're the one who's upset about having his posts deleted.

and btw, i can't believe your crummy soccer team beat aston villa

Can't believe you can spell Aston Villa.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

Glen, someone replied with:

"There's a big difference between money paid and money made. Glenn Gilbertti may have been paid a lot of money (too much, if you ask me), but he never made a dime in his life. I can't imagine anyone having gone to a WCW show back in the day and, when asked about it, saying "I paid to see Disco Inferno". That's the difference between what you're paid and what you make. "

They are saying WCW wrestlers were overpaid, etc...

I dont know what point they're trying to make.. but yeah, check out the link to "briefly" read what people are saying about you.

You made a controverial column becasue it conflicts with the general mentality of teh "IWC" - basically what my posts usually do as well

Keep up the work

Quote:
Originally Posted by gg inferno
when are you guys going to get it through your thick skulls that people want to read WHATEVER i post?

I doubt very much that anybody s intrested in reading a post about me.

i'm sure nobody gives a shit about what a kingjake has to say, but if glenn wants to talk shit about you, others may want to read it to get a laugh out of it.

In all seriousness, Glenn wrestled for WCW, works for TNA, happens to write/talk shit that I agree with most of the time. King Jake, you are nothing but a guy, who happens to help run a wrestling board who gets paid nothing (or very little) to edit/moderate posts on a wrestling board. who's thoughts would i rather want to read

 

[Y 2 Jake]

i'm sure nobody gives a shit about what a kingjake has to say, but if glenn wants to talk shit about you, others may want to read it to get a laugh out of it.

Nobody would get a laugh out of Glenn taking the piss out of me more than myself. He's more than welcome to. But in this thread only.

There's no need to make every TNA thread into a Disco Inferno thread.

In all seriousness, Glenn wrestled for WCW, works for TNA, happens to write/talk shit that I agree with most of the time. King Jake, you are nothing but a guy, who happens to help run a wrestling board who gets paid nothing (or very little) to edit/moderate posts on a wrestling board. who's thoughts would i rather want to read

All due respect to Glenn. But I do believe that my thread (Ask Jake, located in the Bar Room fact fans), has more replies.

But yeah I'm fully aware that everyone is more intrested in hearing what Disco Inferno has to say as opposed to myself. But it's not so much to ask that if he ventures outside of the safe haven that is The [Official] Disco Nation, that he stays on topic and doesn't try to bring attention away from the thread topic. Stupid thread or not.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

hmm..good point, haha

i didn't read his posts on the other threads so i can't really comment on whether he went out of topic or not - or whether your deletions of his posts were IMO good decisions or not. I havne't read "ask jake" either, but i'm surrpirsed you have an entire thread based on yourself, although that doesn't necessarily make you important

when did the ask jake thread start, compared to this thread

 

[MisterRob]

You made a controverial column becasue it conflicts with the general mentality of teh "IWC" - basically what my posts usually do as well

Nothing you post is ever controversial.


As for the topic at hand..

People want to see clean finished from the faces, their fan favorites. In my opinion it lacks common sense to constantly do run-ins or convoluted endings to matches. In my opinion a heel shouldn't be getting clean finishes, it defeats the purpose of a heel (except on those rare occassions where it may make sense or those rare heels who can pull it off). A heel should when by any means possible, and every means possible (besides cleanly) because fans pay to come see them get beat and the more they cheat to win and get out of losing the more people watch and wait for them to "get what they deserve".. just look at Ric Flair back in his prime, or Edge recently. Those were good heels and they were booked well, in my opinion. The face SHOULD be getting clean finishes, what fans wants to see their favorite wrestler cheat to win, or win by other means, and not be able to actually win by their ability alone? It takes away from their credibility. It takes away from the point of a face, and when a face earns that final victory in a feud over a heel it should always be a clean victory. Otherwise it steals the reward away from the fans watching, and waters down the satisfaction people should feel at the end of any great feud. It makes it mean less, like nothing was really solved and nothing was really accomplished. This shades of gray mentality doesn't work in my mind; were people rewarded as fans at the end of Joe/Booker T on PPV? I doubt many fans went home happy and feeling good about the finish, and satisfied with how things had played out. Both men acted like heels and no reward was given to the crowd with the finish of the match.

This shades of gray concept also doesn't work because the fans get behind a wrestler, no matter what they'll event choose a wrestler to cheer for and make their favorite and that MAKES them a face. It doesn't matter the actions a wrestler does specifically, as Stone Cold is an example of, if the fans are behind him and cheering for him then he's a face. There's no shades of gray. Austin was a heel and became a face, regardless of what his actions and personality was and how the depth of the "character" could be viewed as having shades of gray. If you give a face wrestler contradicting personality traits or make them do actions that aren't "face-like", like Joe did and has begun to do, eventually the crowd will turn on him and make him a heel.. its as simple as that.

There's a time and a place to use run-ins and chaotic finishes in matches, to further feuds and storylines, but its certainly not all the time. It's certainly not every match. And it should always make sense and be for a purpose. The same goes for clean finishes, they're needed and without them you have a clusterfuck of booking that people will get tired of quickly and not find rewarding enough to even watch.


PS - And why would anyone "ask Jake" anything? What background or knowledge does King Jake have above any other internet fan?

 

[absent]

Whilst I totally agree with Disco's comment on clean finishes, I feel the scope lies in finding new and creative ways to delay the final clean finish. Back in the old days when the "stars" only wrestled each other every few months on less than a handful of PPVs it would have been easier to build a drawn out feud with jobber squashes and promos but with monthly or even three weekly PPVs and quality matches on weekly TV, booking a long term programme between two wrestlers is I imagine, far harder than decades gone by.

 

[absent]

In respect to the use of clean finishes and dirty finishes in the booking of long term angles, and my belief in the use of them, one philosophy I've held great stock in through my writing of the odd script and film editing is a concept told by Ivan Reitman on the Ghostbusters DVD of the "domino effect of reality", where by if you start with a 100ft mashmallow man walking down 5th Avenue, no one will believe it, but if you start grounded in reality, take one small tiny step into fiction, but then another and then another and eventually by the end of the movie, the audience may actually think it's plausable that a 100ft mashmallow man might be walking down 5th avenue. And I think that's a concept that could well be applied to booking a long term feud in wrestling. If every finish was clean, it could in fact spoil a great drawn out storyline. Even in the stereotypical three act script, the hero has to get undeservedly defeated in act one, otherwise the rest of the movie is pointless.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

Glenn,
I have a few questions that I would like for you to answer.

1. Do you think it is a loss for TNA's knockout division to lose Gail Kim?
2. Do you believe the TNA knockout's are easily replaceable/interchangeable and that nobody really cares about them, except for their looks?
3. Is their still any talk of the all knockout television show?

Thanks!

 

[Marty2Hotty]

I was thinking of an idea where

Disco joins the Prince Justice of Brotherhood as "GG Inferno". He can be Super Eric's sidekick, wear a "Robin-type" costume and put "GG" as his logo.

Curry man and shark boy can't unmask. I think this would be great if GG Inferno also has the alter-ego as Glenn Gilbertti. Glenn and Eric Young could even get into a feud, but when they're SE and GG, they're sidekicks!! WOuldn't that be entertaining??

I think that will be a great idea and it fits Glenn's character. Pitch the idea to TNA!!!

 

[dzonewrestle1]

A few questions for Glen about last Thursday's Impact and TNA.

How was James Storm allowed to hold Hernandez right in front of the ref, so his partner Roode can hit him, and this is not a DQ? And Salanas and Jackie are allowed to brawl in the ring and this is not a DQ?

Then in the ladder match, a match with no rules, why are Booker and Joe obeying the rules? Why wouldn't Joe & Booker just jump in the ring and start a brawl, if the ladder match has no rules?

Also, everybody in TNA on the show thinks that the black bat is from Sting. So why with the guitar, are the announcers not allowed to say Jeff Jarrett? Why is it a mystery that the guitar is Jeff Jarrett, especially when his music plays every time the guitar appears?

One more, the Impact 3 days before Hard Justice. Here's a logical question. Why would I buy a PPV on Sunday with tons of weapons matches, when on Impact before the PPV, I've already seen AJ & Angle brawl and tons of weapon usage all throughout the show? How is this logical business booking?

 

[anonymous]

Nothing you post is ever controversial.


As for the topic at hand..

People want to see clean finished from the faces, their fan favorites. In my opinion it lacks common sense to constantly do run-ins or convoluted endings to matches. In my opinion a heel shouldn't be getting clean finishes, it defeats the purpose of a heel (except on those rare occassions where it may make sense or those rare heels who can pull it off). A heel should when by any means possible, and every means possible (besides cleanly) because fans pay to come see them get beat and the more they cheat to win and get out of losing the more people watch and wait for them to "get what they deserve".. just look at Ric Flair back in his prime, or Edge recently. Those were good heels and they were booked well, in my opinion. The face SHOULD be getting clean finishes, what fans wants to see their favorite wrestler cheat to win, or win by other means, and not be able to actually win by their ability alone? It takes away from their credibility. It takes away from the point of a face, and when a face earns that final victory in a feud over a heel it should always be a clean victory. Otherwise it steals the reward away from the fans watching, and waters down the satisfaction people should feel at the end of any great feud. It makes it mean less, like nothing was really solved and nothing was really accomplished. This shades of gray mentality doesn't work in my mind; were people rewarded as fans at the end of Joe/Booker T on PPV? I doubt many fans went home happy and feeling good about the finish, and satisfied with how things had played out. Both men acted like heels and no reward was given to the crowd with the finish of the match.

This shades of gray concept also doesn't work because the fans get behind a wrestler, no matter what they'll event choose a wrestler to cheer for and make their favorite and that MAKES them a face. It doesn't matter the actions a wrestler does specifically, as Stone Cold is an example of, if the fans are behind him and cheering for him then he's a face. There's no shades of gray. Austin was a heel and became a face, regardless of what his actions and personality was and how the depth of the "character" could be viewed as having shades of gray. If you give a face wrestler contradicting personality traits or make them do actions that aren't "face-like", like Joe did and has begun to do, eventually the crowd will turn on him and make him a heel.. its as simple as that.

There's a time and a place to use run-ins and chaotic finishes in matches, to further feuds and storylines, but its certainly not all the time. It's certainly not every match. And it should always make sense and be for a purpose. The same goes for clean finishes, they're needed and without them you have a clusterfuck of booking that people will get tired of quickly and not find rewarding enough to even watch.

I agree. However, according to this logic, how was what Jeff Jarrett doing during his title reign a bad thing? He would always cheat to win using any means necessary. I mean, fans were clamoring negatively over Jeff Jarrett and the finishes to his matches all the time even though he was using heel tactics to win and stay champion. Or is Jeff Jarrett an exception to the rule?

 

[AngryGrandpa]

lol dzone - I agree with you...

In fact, I agree 100% with the post that started all of this.... I used to be a really big TNA fan..When the company was growing.. You know, before they started to buy anybody that was once a star... lol

I don't like this entire Super hero crap.. If I wanna see super heroes wrestle, I'll buy a Chikara dvd... There used to be a time where I ordered TNA every Wed..And followed them to the impact zone....Drove 5 hours to Orlando three times a month to see TNA and order every monthly PPV I didn't attend..

Now?

It's really hard to finish the entire show... What happened dude? It makes me wanna cry..It honestly does..

TNA went from this company that showcased the x division..(The reason they took off in the first place..The division Disco so often tries to bury) Having AJ Styles in the main event....And even having X division matches AS the main event after a Jarrett match..

To: The X division being led by Shark boy, Eric young and Curry man..

Something is wrong with that....

Is there any surprise why the ratings for TNA have not grown any since they went primetime 2 hours??? The audience stays the same Glenn..That's not company growth...

And by the way, you claim that the program gets millions of viewers...

And believe me I'm not the tv rating guy, nor do I know how it works..

But when Wrestlezone posts the stats.. It's saying that each segment is getting aroung 150,000 views...And 250,000 views...So do the ratings just add each segment together?

That's an honest question I have...

Because if that's the case...Wouldn't the 125,000 people still be the same 125,000 people watching 3 segments later? lol Like I said..I dunno how all that works, and it's beyond my level of understanding..

I just wish TNA was what it once was...Fire russo... His track record is worse than Oprah trying out that jog for cancer...

His track record is worse than Whitney Houston's left arm..lol get it?

 

[Marty2Hotty]

A few questions for Glen about last Thursday's Impact and TNA.

How was James Storm allowed to hold Hernandez right in front of the ref, so his partner Roode can hit him, and this is not a DQ? And Salanas and Jackie are allowed to brawl in the ring and this is not a DQ?

Then in the ladder match, a match with no rules, why are Booker and Joe obeying the rules? Why wouldn't Joe & Booker just jump in the ring and start a brawl, if the ladder match has no rules?

Also, everybody in TNA on the show thinks that the black bat is from Sting. So why with the guitar, are the announcers not allowed to say Jeff Jarrett? Why is it a mystery that the guitar is Jeff Jarrett, especially when his music plays every time the guitar appears?

One more, the Impact 3 days before Hard Justice. Here's a logical question. Why would I buy a PPV on Sunday with tons of weapons matches, when on Impact before the PPV, I've already seen AJ & Angle brawl and tons of weapon usage all throughout the show? How is this logical business booking?

Answer to #1) This is wrestling. Don't overthink things. Ref bumps shouldn't technically count when the entire world sees things.

2) Booker/Joe are watching the match, lol

3) I noticed the announcers not naming Jeff when it's obvious, but I like that in a way and obviously, TNA did that on purpose. Kurt referred to it earlier and said "it's now 'Planet Angle'". I like that it's the 'Mystery of the guitar', even though his theme plays, haha

4) Have you seen a conclusion to the angle of Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles. No, you haven't. The match was interrupted by the lights off on two occasions and is done to push the story and mystery forward, to keep you guessing, to have you want to tune back next week. If there is a PPV, there will be a payoff, a surprise, or something that is leading up to the PPV.

That's the purpose of the wrestling show - to continue stories, to be a soap opera, a weekly television show.

 

[MNF]

Haha, indeed. I only come to Wrestlezone to read what Disco Inferno thinks and writes. Pretty funny stuff, and Glenns a pretty smart guy if you ask me. I am Jeff Jarretts biggest fan or believe I am, and was against his depature after BFG, when everybody wanted him. In your personal opinion, do you think Jeff did more for the TNA World Title, than he gets credit for? I think so.

By the way Disco, did Lance Storm ever respond to your columns? Those were pretty funny. You crack me up. I'm always here for the entertainment, which you and TNA always provide to me, keep up the good work.

I notice you never take shots at PWInsider, do you guys like them? Cause I think there reports are the best in the Online internet news world. Plus, you guys always give Mike Johnson interviews.

 

[he6rt6gr6m]

Sorry to go back to ratings, but I find it funny how websites and people laugh at TNA ratings, when WZ is telling its readers to put the Replay rating and the proper rating together to form the REAL rating.

Its amazing how much bias the bigger company gets in all these outlets, and the "little guy" gets assaulted.

 

[Talon_DR]

Nothing you post is ever controversial.


As for the topic at hand..

People want to see clean finished from the faces, their fan favorites. In my opinion it lacks common sense to constantly do run-ins or convoluted endings to matches. In my opinion a heel shouldn't be getting clean finishes, it defeats the purpose of a heel (except on those rare occassions where it may make sense or those rare heels who can pull it off). A heel should when by any means possible, and every means possible (besides cleanly) because fans pay to come see them get beat and the more they cheat to win and get out of losing the more people watch and wait for them to "get what they deserve".. just look at Ric Flair back in his prime, or Edge recently. Those were good heels and they were booked well, in my opinion. The face SHOULD be getting clean finishes, what fans wants to see their favorite wrestler cheat to win, or win by other means, and not be able to actually win by their ability alone? It takes away from their credibility. It takes away from the point of a face, and when a face earns that final victory in a feud over a heel it should always be a clean victory. Otherwise it steals the reward away from the fans watching, and waters down the satisfaction people should feel at the end of any great feud. It makes it mean less, like nothing was really solved and nothing was really accomplished. This shades of gray mentality doesn't work in my mind; were people rewarded as fans at the end of Joe/Booker T on PPV? I doubt many fans went home happy and feeling good about the finish, and satisfied with how things had played out. Both men acted like heels and no reward was given to the crowd with the finish of the match.

This shades of gray concept also doesn't work because the fans get behind a wrestler, no matter what they'll event choose a wrestler to cheer for and make their favorite and that MAKES them a face. It doesn't matter the actions a wrestler does specifically, as Stone Cold is an example of, if the fans are behind him and cheering for him then he's a face. There's no shades of gray. Austin was a heel and became a face, regardless of what his actions and personality was and how the depth of the "character" could be viewed as having shades of gray. If you give a face wrestler contradicting personality traits or make them do actions that aren't "face-like", like Joe did and has begun to do, eventually the crowd will turn on him and make him a heel.. its as simple as that.

There's a time and a place to use run-ins and chaotic finishes in matches, to further feuds and storylines, but its certainly not all the time. It's certainly not every match. And it should always make sense and be for a purpose. The same goes for clean finishes, they're needed and without them you have a clusterfuck of booking that people will get tired of quickly and not find rewarding enough to even watch.


PS - And why would anyone "ask Jake" anything? What background or knowledge does King Jake have above any other internet fan?

I disagree with this statement for a variety of reasons, the biggest being that the wrestler should cheat or not cheat based on their alignment. (Face or Heel). I think Eddie Guerrero and Stone Cold proved alignment was yesterday's news while character based reactions make more sense.

What I am trying to say is that it depends on who the character is and what kind of situation they are in depends on if they should cheat or not...

Kurt Angle for example is a former Olympic Gold Medalist who is one of the best in the world. The fans don't boo him because he is a cheater, they boo him based off his personality and being a womanizer and an arrogant ass. Unless he is being outwrestled by someone, he doesn't need to cheat. That should rarely happen with AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and maybe Christian Cage being the exception.

However a heel Jeff Jarrett was known as an opportunist. He was great at mind games and making political moves. How many times did he retain his title based on interference from his allies. The only bad thing is that after all that interference, Jarrett came out looking like a weaker wrestler. This is because that when it came down to a one on one encounter (with Sting at BFG) he failed. The opposite is someone like Edge who while getting wins via being opportunistic and interference, he has held his own with wins over Mick Foley among others.

My biggest problems with the cheap finishes is when they are used in a match that shouldn't have them. Creed vs Petey at Hard Justice is a perfect example. Samoa Joe or for that matter Booker T should have been elevated from their feud but neither one was.