NY Region, Colorado Subregion: First Round: (9)RVD vs. (24)Nick Bockwinkel

[Dave]

The following contest is a first round match in the New York Region.

This match takes place in the Pepsi Centre in Denver, Colorado.

#9 Rob Van Dam

Vs.

#24 Nick Bockwinkel

This contest is one fall with a 20 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting is open for four days and all posts must be non-spam.​

 

[The Brain]

I voted Bockwinkel here. RVD is all about the flashy moves and I think that would work against him in a match with Bockwinkel. RVD has too much wasted movement and unnecessary motion. He also sacrafices his own body too much. RVD will often execute a move that injures himself just as much as his opponent. That is not smart. Bockwinkel is the ultimate thinking man's wrestler and would easily be able to get RVD to make a mistake. Once he makes that mistake Bockwinkel would take control and put RVD away.

 

[Tastycles]

Rob Van Dam is perennially popular, but whenever he's tried to operate on the highest level, he's looked completely out of his depth. Van Dam has a long history of making crap mistakes that cost him matches, and when facing someone who consistently got the job done as often as Bockwinkel, it doesn't bode well. I expect that this would be a long affair, and the crowd would probably get behind Van Dam, but I don't think that would be enough and he'd end up with a loss here.

 

[Janice]

Van Dam isn't a bad wrestler and in his days back in ECW and even now, he hasn't been too hard to look at. It's not hard to get behind the guy but you're looking at Nick Bockwinkel, not Tommy Dreamer. In just about every way RVD is beaten by his opponent from connecting with the crowd to experience in major matches. Every time Nick stepped out into the arena you would boo because you hated the guy with a passion! RVD will always get a reasonable pop because he is who he is but he gets it because he's "hardcore" and because of the flashiness of his moveset. Rob doesn't have weapons to turn to either so that eliminates two of his finishers for the most part and when you've got a guy like Bockwinkel who will study his opponent day in and day out before they actually meet, that pretty much eliminates the Frog Splash or any other real offensive maneuvers he has in his arsenal. It would go back and forth a little bit with the crowd fueling a couple comebacks for their fan favorite until Nick decides he wants to end it, easily counters whatever kick is aimed at him and the match is over!

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I voted RVD here. In his prime he was so exciting, so innovative and completely unique in wrestling. No-one was executing the moves Van Dam was.

Bockwinkel may be a very capable wrestler and would have studied RVD, but that wouldn't matter as the size of Van Dam's moveset would always give him the advantage.

Thsi would be the 1st time Bockwinkel would ever have been in the ring with anybody quite like RVD, and even with studying his moves Bockwinkel would be completely out of his comfort zone against Van Dam, and be lost and confused as RVD flew around the ring, used martial arts kicks and the rest of his creative offense. A kick would knock down Nick, then a rolling thunder would take the wind out of him, allowing RVD to jump to the top rope and nail a Five Star Frog Splash for the pinfall victory.

 

[hoppydude]

I vote for Bockwinkel here. These two men are polar opposites, while I haven't seen alot of Bockwinkels ringwork I have seen alot of his promos and they are fantastic and alot of the techniques he used were taken by Jericho to develop his latest heel run. While I do enjoy RVD's ringwork most of the time the man lacks psychology tat Bockwinkel has and his Mic work is par less superior then Bockwinkels.

 

[D-Man]

COME ONE, GUYS...

It doesn't matter how many "Van Terminators" RVD does, how many flips he makes before doing legdrops, how many top ropes he jumps over, and how long his television title reign was... he's not even in the same universe as Nick Bockwinkel. Sure, RVD has star power and is entertaining to all of you NOW. But Nick Bockwinkel was entertaining fans and paved the way for men such as Ric Flair, JBL, and Chris Jericho as he played an "I'm-better-than-you" character in the AWA, cut promos using words that we all had to look up in the dictionary to understand, and while he was beating guys like Hulk Hogan in his prime.

Rob Van Dam is flashy and popular. But so was Bockwinkel. RVD wrestled many top stars, but could be really defeat Bockwinkel in a match?? RVD was the top dog of the second rate promotion called ECW but Bockwinkel reigned supreme in the AWA promtion; a place that bred every star that you've read about on internet forums like Wrestlezone and never experienced in person. Bockwinkel tops RVD in every category that matters in pro-wrestling (no - blood, chairs, and finger pointing doesn't count.)

Wake up, everyone... vote for Bockwinkel!!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It's true that Rob Van Dam is more exciting to watch than Bockwinkel but it's also true that RVD is a little bit overrated. Not nearly as much as most of the guys to come out of ECW, but Van Dam has always struck me as having more flash than substance.

I think Bockwinkel would be a little taken aback initially by RVD's high energy offense and would probably be sucking hind tit for the first half of the match. Bockwinkel, however, was wiley and knew when to pick his spots. The first mistake RVD made from his high risk offense, and there'd be at least one big one, I think Bockwinkel would be able to capitalize on it.

I expect RVD to take this match based on the fact that he's worshipped as a god by many net fans but I'm going with substance over style here and voting Bockwinkel.

 

[Tech N9ne]

The votes are pretty damn close on this one.

RVD is one of my all time favorites, and I have really enjoyed his work. Call him a Spot Monkey or whatever, but I like the bananas he ate. His 5 Star Frog Splash was awesome and he would crush Bockwinkel with it.

I think Bockwinkel should probably beat most people he faces in the first round, but not RVD.

To be honest, I am a little surprised Bockwinkel is ranked as low as he is. I have no problem with it. I think he is overrated and horribly boring. But a lot of people really give him a lot of credit, and I can't deny that he is a Legend. But, in my opinion, he is an overrated Legend.

RVD wins this with 20 seconds left in the match. A lot of guys like Bockwinkel take more than 20 minutes to even get going. So, my vote goes to Rob Van Dam.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

4 time AWA champ. 3 time AWA tag champ. PWI ranked him #18th overall out of 500. 18th out of 500. 2007 WWE Hall of Fame inductee. Bockwinkel was the epitome of a heel.

I love RVD, I rooted for him hard in ECW and was marking out when he was the WWE & ECW champ simultaneously. He could've been greater than Bockwinkel, but RVD screwed himself.

Bockwinkle in his prime would've ran over RVD in his prime.

 

[Coco]

Why do I care how smart Bockwinkel is or how many seventeen syllable words he knows? It's not as though Rob Van Dam has never locked up with an intelligent wrestler before. Fuck, Chris Jericho was pretty much RVD's job-boy bitch for most of the time that they occupied the same roster. Couple that with Van Dam's innovative, laid-back, cool dude mic skills, a unique asset in professional wrestling, and you have Van Dam smoking Bockwinkel in the ring and then not giving a fuck what crazy words he uses on the mic. Van Dam is a simple man who will get his point across, an important part of communication. Bockwinkel might as well be speaking Japanese when he's on the stick, and we know how well the Japanese do in this tournament.

If you've ever tried to watch a Bockwinkel match, you'd know that time stands still. It's truly, deeply uninteresting. Van Dam = palatable. Bockwinkel = not so much.

That's a lot of good reasons to vote for RVD.

 

[D-Man]

Why do I care how smart Bockwinkel is or how many seventeen syllable words he knows? It's not as though Rob Van Dam has never locked up with an intelligent wrestler before. Fuck, Chris Jericho was pretty much RVD's job-boy bitch for most of the time that they occupied the same roster. Couple that with Van Dam's innovative, laid-back, cool dude mic skills, a unique asset in professional wrestling, and you have Van Dam smoking Bockwinkel in the ring and then not giving a fuck what crazy words he uses on the mic. Van Dam is a simple man who will get his point across, an important part of communication. Bockwinkel might as well be speaking Japanese when he's on the stick, and we know how well the Japanese do in this tournament.

If you've ever tried to watch a Bockwinkel match, you'd know that time stands still. It's truly, deeply uninteresting. Van Dam = palatable. Bockwinkel = not so much.

That's a lot of good reasons to vote for RVD.

So what you're saying is that you're basing your votes on the fact that you feel RVD is a better talker on the mic and can beat smart people? That's absurd.

Bockwinkel was beating legends in the ring and holding world titles when RVD was still a twinkle in his father's eye. And once RVD was hatched, all he did for the sport was more high-flying and "entertaining" moves in the ring. He did not defeat anyone that was anywhere near the caliber of opponents that Bockwinkel faced (who were all in their primes, by the way) unless you count John Cena in a match surrounded by controversy.

It's one thing to vote on who personally entertained you more (which is just plain stupid). But it's another thing to vote on which way this match would have gone if it actually took place. I understand that while Bockwinkel is more "entertaining" on a microphone, RVD is more "entertaining" in a ring. But matches with Sabu don't compare to ones with Verne Gagne and Hulk Hogan.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Rob Van Dam, along with Cena, also has Jericho's number on speed dial. He's beaten Jeff Hardy, Chris Benoit, Randy Orton, John Cena, Big Show, and Rey Mysterio during Mysterio's WHC title reign. RVD hasn't had the success against stronger or taller wrestlers like Undertaker or Kane but Bockwinkel is neither of those guys.

 

[Coco]

Rob Van Dam has pinned Steve Austin, The Rock, and Triple H. Don't neglect the facts in favor of making a linear comparison between Bockwinkel and Van Dam sound better for your man. But more importantly, you should be sure to mention how little linear comparisons about who Bockwinkel beat in his career and who Van Dam beat in his career mean. Van Dam made his living in an era where wrestling has progressed a long way since the Bockwinkel days. To think Van Dam would have problems with Verne fucking Gagne is laughable. What's important here? To Bockwinkel, Van Dam is from the future. Van Dam has dealt with Bockwinkel types countless times in his career and knows how to deal with a traditional, old school style. Conversely, Bockwinkel wouldn't be prepared for Van Dam's offense or how fast Van Dam gets into his routine and can finish matches when compared with people from Bockwinkel's era. Van Dam would be looking to finish Bockwinkel in under ten minutes and Bockwinkel wouldn't know what to do in response to both Van Dam's pace and Van Dam's offense. That's two ways in which he'd need to find his bearings, which is two too many against a man as capable and resourceful as Van Dam.

 

[D-Man]

Rob Van Dam, along with Cena, also has Jericho's number on speed dial. He's beaten Jeff Hardy, Chris Benoit, Randy Orton, John Cena, Big Show, and Rey Mysterio during Mysterio's WHC title reign. RVD hasn't had the success against stronger or taller wrestlers like Undertaker or Kane but Bockwinkel is neither of those guys.

What does height have to do with anything? You need to do some research... seriously. You don't have a clue about Nick Bockwinkel. The guy has been through wars with guys like a young Hulk Hogan, a mid-life Verne Gagne, Crusher, Baron Von Rashke(sp?), Slaughter, Snuka, Ric Flair.... the list goes on.

I really hate when you guys think that looking at a match listing from 1998 determines whether a wrestler is better than a legend of the sport. Such ignorance.

 

[JXL]

I love RVD and his unquiness style in the ring, but he's not getting over Bockwinkel. Nick's style is always to get you down, apply any hold to you and you squeal. Van Dam's offense will not catch Bockwinkel's defensive tactics in the ring, no doubt Bockwinkel hasn't faced someone like RVD, but he can catch on to his offense and bring you down to his level, where RVD wouldn't want to be.

My vote: Nick Bockwinkel

 

[ABMorales787]

Sorry, Bockwinkle may have paved the way for many, but RVD was a stand out figure all the way down from EC F'N W. He is the ONLY full fledged ECW alumni to achieve main even status outside of ECW. RVD may be all flash, but Bockwinkle never saw flash. Most of Bockwinkle's main event run was smeared by controversy and politics. RVD was never awarded a title and he never needed political assistance to go over a more popular figure. Bockwinkle may have been a good technical wrestler, but he stood out most for his fancy worded promos. Not really the premise here. Nick may be a figure of wrestling history, but RVD's book is far from over. Yet he's already a cult legend.

 

[PsychoBlack]

RVD in this one and it's not really a hard choice. Sure Bockwinkel is a legen but pople fail to forget that Rob Van Dam is as well. Bockwinkel has beaten legends and so has RVD. Bockwinkel was one boring motherfucker RVD was not.

RVD was unique because he is a rather large man to be doing the types of moves that he does. In a match like this Nick would not know hot to deal with such a unique offense. Rob's counters and quick strikes would have Nick baffled.


5 Star in 15 to end it

 

[hatehabsforever]

I voted for Nick Bockwinkel for several reasons, some of which I will not even bother to get into. This is probably more of a vote against RVD, more so than it is a vote for Nick Bockwinkel. RVD holds very little appeal for me. The bulk of his success happened in ECW, which was little more than a glorified Indy federation which had a cult following, but in the end, really was not that good. He had some success in WWE, but basically screwed it all up with his conduct outside of the ring. Now he is performing in TNA, and for me, it is still the same for him as it always has been. He is a crowd favorite, but in the end is little more than a glorified spot monkey who could have been a much bigger deal in WWE had he played the corporate game a little bit better.

In the end I am rooting hard for the upset here. Nice Bockwinkel over RVD. Come on guys, let's put RVD on the shelf. He will have little trouble finding something else to do in his leisure time.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

How is RVD seeded this high? Aside from winning the WWE title and being a long streaking ECW TV champ...what has RVD done that is overly impressive in the business? He's vastly entertaining and can jump high...but I don't see anything overly impressive.

I'm going with Bockwinkle. More impressive resume. Held the the AWA Title for RIDICULOUS amounts of time.

 

[JGlass]

How is RVD seeded this high?

Because he has a cult following that is extremely strong in the IWC.

The legend of Rob Van Dam has been blown out of proportion by many, and I have a feeling that if he kept on wrestling with the WWE through 2007 we would all know exactly where the Van Daminator stands as far as the legends go... and he doesn't belong amongst them. The guy was a superstar in ECW, but that popularity did not translate to big-time WWE success. He managed to stay in the spotlight from time to time and even got to grab the WWE championship once, but as Ricky just said, that match was surrounded by controversy, and he lost the belt shortly after he won it.

Bockwinkel, on the other hand, is one of the great legends of the wrestling biz. True, his name doesn't carry around the same weight as Thesz or Sammartino, but he's right up there with Backlund, Lawler, and Gagne. He held the AWA Belt for over 4 years and during that time defeated the likes of Lawler, Gagne, and even a young Hulk Hogan. If you were to translate that to success by today's standards he'd be blowing RVD out of the water.

Vote Bockwinkel, the man who deserves the win.

 

[8thwotwATG]

The multiple time AWA Worlds Heavyweight Champ goes over the whole F'n Show here in the first round. He was a master tactician and ring technician, his promos kicked ass, and his wars w/ Verne Gagne and Hulk Hogan are the stuff of legend. Additionally, he would probably have Bobby Heenan in his corner,for yet another advantage. Van Dam would definitely confuse Bock at first, with his unorthodox style and high flying offense, but Bockwinkel would figure him out well enough to capitalize on a Van Dam mistake; brought on by his somewhat reckless and chance taking approach. At this point, Bockwinkel would keep Van Dam grounded enroute to a pinfall win at about the 18 minute mark in what works out to be a surprisingly entertaining and exciting first round matchup.

 

[D-Man]

Wow... I'm going to break this next post down in parts so everyone could see this ridiculous reasoning, piece by piece.

Sure Bockwinkel is a legen but pople fail to forget that Rob Van Dam is as well.

RVD is a legend? Where?? In ECW?!? Because he sure as hell isn't a legend in the WWE. That's like saying Jeff Hardy is a "legend".

Let's play a game. Tell me what doesn't belong in this list:

Ric Flair
Hulk Hogan
Harley Race
Bruno Sammartino
Rob Van Dam
Sting
Undertaker
Pedro Morales
Lou Thesz

Yup, exactly.

Bockwinkel has beaten legends and so has RVD.

This is true. But even the Great Khali beat the Undertaker clean once. Keep that in mind.

Bockwinkel was one boring motherfucker RVD was not.

From who's point of view? And in what ways are you referring to? Are you saying that just because Bockwinkel didn't spin in circles and do backflips that he was boring? Because he didn't have a lavish finisher like the five-star frogsplash? Bockwinkel was part of the inspiration for Ric Flair's character so your way of thinking tells us that you find Ric Flair boring. The 70's were a different time period and era for wrestling. Bockwinkel, believe it or not, was one of the more entertaining wrestlers on the roster. But I'll let you slide because I know you're only 17 years old and making these horrific accusations.

RVD was unique because he is a rather large man to be doing the types of moves that he does.

In the world or pro-wrestling, 6'0" and 237lbs is almost considered to be a Cruiserweight. It's not uncommon AT ALL that he's able to do the moveset that he uses.

In a match like this Nick would not know hot to deal with such a unique offense. Rob's counters and quick strikes would have Nick baffled.

Bockwinkel's defeated some of the greatest wrestlers to ever enter the sport. I don't see how RVD's telegraphed and flashy offense would throw him any type of curveball.[/quote]