"Nobody knew"

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

The Monday Night War series that is being shown on the Network is great.

I have one thing that I need to point out though. This revisionist history that "nobody knew" that Hall and Nash's WWF contracts expired is BS. The majority of fans didn't know, but that doesn't mean "nobody knew". I can say this because I knew.

There was no internet, but there were hotlines, dirt sheets, and the NY Daily News actually had a weekly "behind-the-scenes" column by a guy called "The Slammer".

So while the vast majority of fans did not know what was really going on, I refuse to believe that guys like Cody Rhodes (whose father was IN WCW at the time) actually believed that Hall and Nash were "invading" WCW, which is what he said on last night's MNW episode.

 

[laodaron]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but Cody was like 10. There's good reason to believe that his dad left as much kayfabe as possible so that Cody could appreciate some of the magic.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but Cody was like 10. There's good reason to believe that his dad left as much kayfabe as possible so that Cody could appreciate some of the magic.

You're right, I didn't consider his age at the time. My overall point stands though.

I'm pretty sure Mean Gene Okerlund even discussed the expiring contracts on the hotline that he promoted on WCW programming.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I'm watching the series right now. I was never really a WCW fan, so I never really appreciated the grandeur of the nWo. Hulk Hogan's betrayal would have been insane for me as a fan if it happened in WWF, but I remember hearing about it, and thinking "whatever, that's somewhere else". I kinda regret not jumping on the WCW bandwagon at the time.

I wonder if nowadays, a John Cena heel turn would be received similarly. What if John had actually joined the Nexus in 2010?? Would it have worked? John leading a team of rookies against the whole WWE?? People say that John turning heel wouldn't work because he'll be cheered, but who cares? The nWo was cheered and it was great. I think John joining an nWo or Evolution-like group in the future can bring WWE a lot of money if they went with it.

 

[justtxyank]

Dusty Rhodes was also a friend of Scott Hall (which is why he stupidly joined the nWo in 1998) so there's no doubt he knew.

I can buy that he didn't tell his sons though. Dusty is old school. Keep up kayfabe at all costs. Telling your son details that could get out at school isn't a smart move.

That said, please keep in mind this is a WWE produced show. It will paint the narrative that is best for WWE making money.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

Cody Rhodes said on Talk is Jericho that Dusty never broke kayfabe at home. Cody was a grown man before Dusty would talk shoot about wrestling.

 

[Hit with Dirty Deeds]

I think its fair to say that Cody wasn't in the know. But to be honest even in England I heard the news if Hogan's heel turn and the formation of the nWo. Its just I had a hard time believing it (and i didnt) because wcw wasn't as available to me at the time, strictly Wwf. I certainly didn't believe that ramon and diesel had swapped sides.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

OP I think you're nitpicking. Sure some people had access to behind the scenes info, but I am willing to bet that a much larger portion of the fan base didn't. MUCH LARGER. So when Cody says nobody knew I am sure he is talking about the casual fan.

 

[#tamale]

So awesome of you to point that out. Like, did you get them sheets and call hotlines so you could brag to the people watching that you're "in" on it?

The vast majority did not know. It was a well executed angle that blurred the lines. The internet does not have the reach it has now and even then the details were shaky. Plus, why would Cody Rhodes lie about that? What is there to gain? The dude was a kid when that happened. He believed it.

The complaints get lamer every day.

 

[FlairFan2003]

The Monday Night War series that is being shown on the Network is great.

I have one thing that I need to point out though. This revisionist history that "nobody knew" that Hall and Nash's WWF contracts expired is BS. The majority of fans didn't know, but that doesn't mean "nobody knew". I can say this because I knew.

There was no internet, but there were hotlines, dirt sheets, and the NY Daily News actually had a weekly "behind-the-scenes" column by a guy called "The Slammer".

.

There was internet coverage/websites dedicated to pro wrestling in 1996, its just the vast majority of people didn't have easy access to the internet. It was growing but wasn't common in homes like it is TV and cell phones were in their infancy and very un common, there were certainly no Smart Phones, but IWC did exist, I was checking it in 1996

 

[The Butcher]

I just used the internet to find out wrestler's real names back then. WWE's take on the past irks me, but history, as the saying goes, is written by the victors. I haven't seen the series, but part of that take could be their way to preserve a touch of kayfabe and to really drive home the point that Razor Ramon jumping that barricade was shocking as all hell. Easily one of my favorite WCW memories.

 

[Franchize1990]

Classic example of what is called a hyperbole: an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally. When Nash, Hall, and the people in the documentary said "nobody knew", they were saying it wasn't common knowledge to the public that their contracts in the WWF were up. For every fan like yourself who knew about the hotlines, dirt sheets, etc. there were probably tens of thousands who didn't. That's why the angle worked so well back then and would be exteremly difficult to pull off in today's world. As far as guys like Cody not knowing, I believe in the Rise and Fall of the NWO documentary, he stated that his dad kept him out of the loop so that he could enjoy the show like the average fan should.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

So awesome of you to point that out. Like, did you get them sheets and call hotlines so you could brag to the people watching that you're "in" on it?

I'm sure I shared the information I learned with my fellow wrestling fan friends but I wouldn't call it "bragging". Not sure why your coming at me with that angle.

To reiterate my point, and to take Cody Rhodes out of the equation completely, the statement was made repeatedly on episode 2 of the MNW that fans did not have access to "real" news, and were all totally caught off guard by Hall and Nash showing up on Nitro. They didn't say "a much lower percentage" of fans, they said "NOBODY".

Just in case anyone watched that episode, and took everything hook-line-and-sinker, I'm just telling you that fans did have access to information if they cared enough to seek it out. Which in my case, involved the effort of buying the New York Daily News every Friday.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

There were hotlines and sheets, even here in the UK... We had Powerslam magazine which basicaly regurgiated the whole of Meltzer and the like each month... it wasn't "instant knowledge" in the same way it is today, but it was there... I knew Diesel had won the title before it aired, I knew Nash and Hall were going in February or so of 96 and I knew Pillman had died before the show announcement cos there was a fledgling internet, albiet via AOL groups that was via expensive booths or literally raiding it from my dad's connection cos he was a dick about it...

IWC was there, I was part of it, E-Fedding was there all of it... now what did stay hidden was the Hogan turn, they got that right... but deals, steals and contracts expiring was all out there along with a lot of stuff that is now either debunked or they have done their best too... Shawn coming into his own money at some point for example....

But to say no one knew is wrong, even as far back as 91-92 I knew what had happened with Shane Douglas, the Heartbreak Kid gimmick and his leaving WWE or the Nailz fight with Vince for example... but if you wanted wrestling information you really had to hustle for it. At school I was the guy who a) knew about wrestling for real, so real names etc... b) who they had "been before" (will never forget being called a liar when I told some classmates the Blue Blazer was Owen Hart) and c) could find stuff out if I didn't know it... it WAS a currency on a playground with teen lads in the early 1990's to know about this stuff, it wasn't bragging... it was look heres how it works... how do I know, well if I told you... and then by the time I was in my last year I was wrestling properly, training 3 times a week, bulking up, doing elbows and moonsaults off the stage in the hall onto the thick crashmats... by then that knowledge was becoming more out there to the public but it became more about knowing how the business worked... so those who WERE interested, were really interested... those who weren't though I was goofy for doing it... till they messed with me and I put them in a headlock lol. "It's fake" I'd get told... and I'd be... "I know...I always knew... I just didn't tell you it was, just like I didn't tell you Santa wasn't real."

Now it's basically a joke that everything is out there immediately cos the WRESTLERS want it out there and sometimes the company... and that is the worst thing of the product...too much is freely available... Dr. Who leaked, fans kept quiet out of respect for the show... Smackdown spoilers basically make the show redundant...big difference.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

I knew Diesel had won the title before it aired...

Wasn't it only a three day difference? That's pretty quick.

 

[Franchize1990]

To reiterate my point, and to take Cody Rhodes out of the equation completely, the statement was made repeatedly on episode 2 of the MNW that fans did not have access to "real" news, and were all totally caught off guard by Hall and Nash showing up on Nitro. They didn't say "a much lower percentage" of fans, they said "NOBODY".

Thus missing the point of the word hyperbole. Saying "nobody" knew about the contracts running out, Nash and Hall signing with WCW, things of that nature is just like saying EVERY fan of John Cena is either A) a female or B) under the age of 13 despite the fact that there's clearly people out there (myself included) who don't fit that criteria. They use hyperboles to emphasize their argument. In this case, saying "nobody" knew is trying to exaggerate the fact that backstage dealings were not as open to the public as they are now. Not that 0 people out of the entire planet Earth had absolutely no clue as to what was going on behind the scenes.

Just in case anyone watched that episode, and took everything hook-line-and-sinker, I'm just telling you that fans did have access to information if they cared enough to seek it out. Which in my case, involved the effort of buying the New York Daily News every Friday.

Generally speaking, whenever somebody uses one of the following words: Always, never, only, everybody, or nobody there will usually be an exception to the rule. I believe most of the target audience in this forum know that dirt sheets were still around way back then, just harder to access.

 

[The Butcher]

Just in case anyone watched that episode, and took everything hook-line-and-sinker, I'm just telling you that fans did have access to information if they cared enough to seek it out. Which in my case, involved the effort of buying the New York Daily News every Friday.

I get where you're coming from, Joe, and I think you cleared up your intentions well with that statement above. It's not so much you griping as scoffing, and your opening post was just you pulling WWE's card because they do that shit with history. I figured they were just doing it to sell the hugeness of Hall's move to WCW, and like Franchize said, it's hyperbole. That's what they do. When Lawler says, "I don't think I've EVER seen a move like that before!" and the dude in the ring just did a fucking hip toss, we know he's just selling it.

Hogan burned a copy of the Observer on-air at World War 3 '95, so even the business was acknowledging the burgeoning industry of exposing pro wrestling's secrets and goings on. Like I said, I, and probably a whole lot of other fans who had access to the internet at home back then, would open up my Netscape Navigator and try to find out kayfabe breaking information. It's not a big deal that WWE stars said what they said during that show, but it's also not a big deal that you're pointing it out.

 

[timothy26]

The Monday Night War series that is being shown on the Network is great.

I have one thing that I need to point out though. This revisionist history that "nobody knew" that Hall and Nash's WWF contracts expired is BS. The majority of fans didn't know, but that doesn't mean "nobody knew". I can say this because I knew.

There was no internet, but there were hotlines, dirt sheets, and the NY Daily News actually had a weekly "behind-the-scenes" column by a guy called "The Slammer".

So while the vast majority of fans did not know what was really going on, I refuse to believe that guys like Cody Rhodes (whose father was IN WCW at the time) actually believed that Hall and Nash were "invading" WCW, which is what he said on last night's MNW episode.

On Jericho's podcast recently he interviewed Cody and Dustin

Cody said he believed it was legit and his dad never discussed the fact that wrestling was worked with him. Alot of the older wrestlers had a code of silence about wrestling being worked

 

[Bagpipes]

Cody Rhodes said on Talk is Jericho that Dusty never broke kayfabe at home. Cody was a grown man before Dusty would talk shoot about wrestling.

I heard that as well on the podcast. The Rhodes Bros. made for a hell of an episode, probably my favorite next to the Jericho/Edge/Heyman episode.