But there is definitely less of a chance in certain places. I mean Carolina has been around 15 years, they have been to two Cup Finals and won a Stanley Cup yet that still didn't drastically improve their attendance and put them in the top half of the league. If they have built winners and still didn't have great success in 15 years then what would make the future different?
NHL Thread - 2010-11
- Thread starter It's Damn Real!
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But there is definitely less of a chance in certain places. I mean Carolina has been around 15 years, they have been to two Cup Finals and won a Stanley Cup yet that still didn't drastically improve their attendance and put them in the top half of the league. If they have built winners and still didn't have great success in 15 years then what would make the future different?
It's Damn Real!
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Losing breeds losing, man. It's not the market's fault when fans don't want to come out to see a team continually lose. Hockey cities like Buffalo came close to bankruptcy — how? Quite simply, the team wasn't winning enough.
Nashville is winning and are slowly (but surely) building a very, very strong fan base in Tennessee, a totally "untraditional" market.
Dallas completely won over Texas, and even gave way for AHL-level hockey to move to the state after winning over time.
Any market can succeed, regardless of their location, so long as the team performs well enough to give fans a reason to buy tickets. Period.
Nashville is winning and are slowly (but surely) building a very, very strong fan base in Tennessee, a totally "untraditional" market.
Dallas completely won over Texas, and even gave way for AHL-level hockey to move to the state after winning over time.
Any market can succeed, regardless of their location, so long as the team performs well enough to give fans a reason to buy tickets. Period.
Not necessarily. I just gave you the Carolina example. In the last 10 years they have been to the finals twice, won the cup, made the playoffs 4 times, and have had a winning record 7 times. That's 7 out of 10 years they have at the very least been in the playoff race all year long yet they still do not have impressive attendance numbers in any of the years.
It's Damn Real!
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Yes, and look at the attendance draw in the years they made the finals, and especially the year they won the cup.
That's also one example. My point is, you can't brush the entirety of "the south" as a failure, because it's disingenuous and not true.
That's also one example. My point is, you can't brush the entirety of "the south" as a failure, because it's disingenuous and not true.
I have and it's still below average. When you win the cup you hope to go from shit to good attendance. Not shit to below average.
I showed one example of a team winning and still failing. I have many examples of teams just straight up failing, those teams just don't win very often. Tampa is the only example where a team went from shit to great attendance because of winning. Though this year Tampa won quite a bit and their attendance was just average.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
The Lightning won in 2004 (good for 13th in overall attendance), had a lockout in 2005 and were the 5th highest drawing team in 2005-06 (95.7%), so how exactly is that "shit to below average"?
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2006
No, you didn't. You stated it without providing any statistical fact to back it up. I provided statistical fact that completely negates that point.
So again, this paint-brushing of "the south" is wrong and ignorant.
Jesus Christ I said in my last post Tampa turned winning into good attendance a few years back but that was the exception. This year they won and what happened in the mid 2000's did not happen as they were 18th in overall attendance and 21st in % attendance.
Yes I did. I'm using the exact same website you are. I don't see the point in pasting the link for each of the last 10 years in every post when you are using the exact same website. Look at Carolina's numbers the last 10 years. They are shit to below average every single year even when they are winning.
.
No it's correct.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/sort/homePct
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2010
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2009
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2008
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2007
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2006
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2005
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2004
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2003
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2002
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2001
Here's the links from the last 10 years on the exact same website you were using. I'll be sure to copy and paste it in every single one of my posts from now on
It's Damn Real!
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Even if that were the case, this is not geographic. If it were, no northern teams would ever collapse or move, and a number already have.
Again, this is not geographic. Too many elements go into determining the value of a market city that you are ignoring. Attendance records are only a small indication of the strength or weakness of a club.
Again, this is not geographic. Too many elements go into determining the value of a market city that you are ignoring. Attendance records are only a small indication of the strength or weakness of a club.
Well to be fair, Both the Jets, and Nordiques didn't leave due to poor attendance. The fans were, and still are very loyal. They left because Bettman is Anti-Canadian.. The exchange rate and the fact that where the Nordiques played was pure french helped.. But we like to blame Bettman for it. So attendance isn't always the factor in it.
Anyway, There are a lot more Coyote fans in Phoenix than people think. They just waited till they were going to loose the team to show up. Places like ATL, and Florida on the other hand, that's the teams that need relocation. With ATL heading to Winnipeg, "It's just a matter of time before others follow the lead and move North" is what Don Cherry says.
Anyway, There are a lot more Coyote fans in Phoenix than people think. They just waited till they were going to loose the team to show up. Places like ATL, and Florida on the other hand, that's the teams that need relocation. With ATL heading to Winnipeg, "It's just a matter of time before others follow the lead and move North" is what Don Cherry says.
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Bettman is not anti-Canadian. What a ridiculous thing to say.
The Jets and the Nordiques left because the value of the Canadian dollar at the time (which is what Canadian clubs were paying their players in then) was roughly 70% of what the value of the US dollar was. That means in order to retain players and run the franchise, they were paying upwards of 30% more than US-based teams to do so.
Attendance became a factor because without selling out nearly every game, the financials (when you factor in the 30% increase in cost of running) just didn't work.
The Jets and the Nordiques left because the value of the Canadian dollar at the time (which is what Canadian clubs were paying their players in then) was roughly 70% of what the value of the US dollar was. That means in order to retain players and run the franchise, they were paying upwards of 30% more than US-based teams to do so.
Attendance became a factor because without selling out nearly every game, the financials (when you factor in the 30% increase in cost of running) just didn't work.
The Great Jaromir Jagr was meeting with NHL teams yesterday, no joke... What do you think about his Superb skillz and where would you like to see him end up... Some of you hockey noobs may say he's getting old, but if any of you have been watching him this past World Cup and the Olympics, you can obviously still tell he's still very very talented and could still be a offensive force in the NHL... Besides he's 1 point away from 1600!!!
It's Damn Real!
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From what I'm reading he'd like to go to a contender. The Rangers were on a short-list due to his affiliation with the club, but I just don't see them bringing him back for a number of reasons — age, style of play and salary being the largest among them.
My guess is he'd head back to Pittsburgh, the city he became a star in, for one last run, or follow-through on his chance to play a year in Detroit, who's puck-possession style of play would actually give him an opportunity to matter one more time.
I love Jaro, but if I'm taking a guess, it's Detroit or Pittsburgh. No contest.
My guess is he'd head back to Pittsburgh, the city he became a star in, for one last run, or follow-through on his chance to play a year in Detroit, who's puck-possession style of play would actually give him an opportunity to matter one more time.
I love Jaro, but if I'm taking a guess, it's Detroit or Pittsburgh. No contest.
Jagr's agent is in talks with Ken Holland to join Detroit...although, I don't really know if the Wings need him. Offense wasn't nearly as big a problem as defense was. With Brian Rafalski retiring, the Wings have to devote their time and money to rebuilding the defense. Lidstrom will be back next year, as they agreed to a one year deal today, but they only have four defensemen on the roster right now. The names that keep popping up as "wants" on Mlive (Michigan's consolidated newspaper website) seem to be Wisniewski and Weber, but we still need more.
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new to the forum here... big hockey fan go rangers!
do you guys think jagr will be able to still play at the NHL level considering he has spent the past few years overseas?
im very happy the rangers got Brad Richards im guessing he will play on the top line with Gaborik while Callahan and Dubinsky will be on the secong line hopefully with Vinny Prospel on center.
im kinda bumed the Chris Durey got his contract bought out im thinking a team like the islanders that need vetern leaders should sign him.
thought?
do you guys think jagr will be able to still play at the NHL level considering he has spent the past few years overseas?
im very happy the rangers got Brad Richards im guessing he will play on the top line with Gaborik while Callahan and Dubinsky will be on the secong line hopefully with Vinny Prospel on center.
im kinda bumed the Chris Durey got his contract bought out im thinking a team like the islanders that need vetern leaders should sign him.
thought?
People's Champ
Bleeding Teal
So, here I go on the Sharks trades with the Wild.
First, the Setoguchi trade for Burns. Big move, and a great one at that. Defense was obviously an issue with this team as seen in the playoffs. Burns was the big big defenseman we needed, who can score as well. There is enough offensive help to where Setoguchi was able to be moved. I like the move a lot.
Then there was the Heatley-Havlet trade. This one is not an automatic great move like the Burns trade. While Wilson (Doug, GM) won't say it, it really does have to do with the dud Heatley put out in this year's playoffs. And it seems Wilson is really looking to change things up, trying to get this team over the hump. Wilson says speed is important and which is why he made the move, along with the fact that Havlet had some good postseasons, when he was in them. But Heatley was dealing with injuries, and given another year, I would have loved to see if he could bounce back. At any rate, this move I'm curious to see how it plays out.
First, the Setoguchi trade for Burns. Big move, and a great one at that. Defense was obviously an issue with this team as seen in the playoffs. Burns was the big big defenseman we needed, who can score as well. There is enough offensive help to where Setoguchi was able to be moved. I like the move a lot.
Then there was the Heatley-Havlet trade. This one is not an automatic great move like the Burns trade. While Wilson (Doug, GM) won't say it, it really does have to do with the dud Heatley put out in this year's playoffs. And it seems Wilson is really looking to change things up, trying to get this team over the hump. Wilson says speed is important and which is why he made the move, along with the fact that Havlet had some good postseasons, when he was in them. But Heatley was dealing with injuries, and given another year, I would have loved to see if he could bounce back. At any rate, this move I'm curious to see how it plays out.
The Penguins didn't lose Talbot to Philly, per se. The Penguins offerred him over a million less per year then the rediculous four year, 9 million dollar contract the Flyers gave him. I loved Talbot during his time here in Pittsburgh, great guy, community asset, etc. But the man's only big contribution, albeit a large one, was scoring both goals in the 09 Cup Finals against Detroit in the Game 7 2-1 win. Other then that, it's 2.25 million a year for a man who scored tengoals over the past TWO seasons. The Penguins signed an albeit older, injury prone, but dynamic when healthy Steve Sullivan for 1.5 million for one year, and the man's scored 30 goals 5 times.
As for Jagr, the fans here in Pittsburgh are pretty much universally in an uproar. And I think its justified. Had Jagr said when he announced he was returning to the NHL that "he was going to look for the best offer, and not play favorites", nobody would have begrudged him. But he made comments such as "If it came down to it, Id play for the league minimum to finish my career in Pittsburgh because I owe my career to Mario. So the Pens offerred him a one year, 2 million dollar contract. And then it became about which team gave him a better chance of winning, and of course he said that was Philadelphia. What he should have said, and would have been accurate, is "I won't have to share the spotlight in Philadelphia the way I would in Pittsburgh." Jagr's going to get a better chance of being the guy in Philly when he would have been the third or fourth guy in Pittsburgh. And thats what Jagr never could handle. He always needed the spotlight. Because I doubt that 1.3 million made much of a difference to a man whose made over 100 million dollars in his career, and could have stayed in the KHL, and made more money, tax free. Its always been and still is all about #68 and his need to be in the spotlight, and he probably cost himself getting his number retired here in the process.
well, I don't think he'll be THE guy in Philly either. When you have a team with players like Briere and Pronger. Cater, and Richards leaving hurt them a lot, but I think that if he wanted a team that has the best chance, he failed. Picking a team that cant decide between 3 goalies which one will be the starter? He should have done what everyone else likes to do with their "one last chance" and went to Detroit. I just hope this doesn't turn into another Forsburg thing. plays 2 games and retires again.
It's Damn Real!
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Prospal is not likely to be brought back. Too old, and both his knees are shot.
That line with Dubinsky and Callahan is likely to have Anisimov centering it, with Stepan on the third line with Avery/Fedotenko or whoever else makes it in camp.
The Richards deal needed to get done the Rangers now have a certifiable top-line center who took a pay cut to come here who also doubles as a PPQB.
ya i agree the rangers needed a PPQB as the young guns ( calli, Dubi, and staal) dont have the experience yet. hopefully Richards will bring out the best in Gaborik. im intrested to see who they make the captin out of all this. i think its a safe bet Callahan and stall will end up with the A's and richards will wear the C
This is to all you Jagr hater's who wanted him in Pittsburgh... After all you know what they say, "Don't Hate the Playa." Quite Simply Jaromir can do what ever he want's because he's a superstar brosephs... He's worth atleast 5 million, and he is still damn worth every penny the Penguins should of offered just a little bit more, I guarentee he would of even if it was just a little short of Philly's offer, which was only 1.2mil more... And don't say he's too old for that money, cause Mario was payed over 6mil a year his last few seasons. Also the same Penguin fans who went into a butthurt frenzy over Jagr's rumored arrival, are the same one's who booed him, you guys don't deserve him
Mr.Jagr still can still pull out his amazing skillz, as proved in the Olympic's and these past 2 World Cups which btw he most recently recorded a 3 goals 1 assist night against Team USA, which if you haven't forgotten the same team USA that played that amazing Olympic Finals against Canada not long ago, and still put up big numbers in those Tournaments which does consist of the best players in the world namely NHL... Also he put up more than a point a game in the KHL, and that leauge is no slouch of a leauge excepcially with it's hard to score European style...
Jaromir Jagr WILL make Philly happy for this Pick-up, and maybe you Penguins fans can have him next season, I'm sure he has a couple seasons up his sleeve before he finishes his career with his Hometown Czech Leauge Team(he pledged his last season with them, his Dad is the president of them)
If your wondering my favorite Hockey Team, I don't have one... I'm a fan of the game, and play at a "High Level" of hockey if your wondering about my hockey opinion credentials before you Pens fans attack me
Mr.Jagr still can still pull out his amazing skillz, as proved in the Olympic's and these past 2 World Cups which btw he most recently recorded a 3 goals 1 assist night against Team USA, which if you haven't forgotten the same team USA that played that amazing Olympic Finals against Canada not long ago, and still put up big numbers in those Tournaments which does consist of the best players in the world namely NHL... Also he put up more than a point a game in the KHL, and that leauge is no slouch of a leauge excepcially with it's hard to score European style...
Jaromir Jagr WILL make Philly happy for this Pick-up, and maybe you Penguins fans can have him next season, I'm sure he has a couple seasons up his sleeve before he finishes his career with his Hometown Czech Leauge Team(he pledged his last season with them, his Dad is the president of them)
If your wondering my favorite Hockey Team, I don't have one... I'm a fan of the game, and play at a "High Level" of hockey if your wondering about my hockey opinion credentials before you Pens fans attack me
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
Could be, but I'm not sure they'll trump Callahan's captaincy (the writing is on the wall) for an unknown in Richards, risking all the Messier references in the process. If Richards comes in like Redden, it'll be egg on the face of the organization having given the captaincy to an "outsider" who never "deserved" it.
My guess is Callahan will get the C, and both Richards and Staal will wear A's, which I'm fine with.