Monday Night Massacre

[trendkiller]

I'm not really portraying anything, just stating the facts as they are. I never said or meant to imply that TNA was doomed to fail, but the facts are that they're failing now. As for TNA just moving to Monday nights, so what? TNA decided to make the move and if it was done prematurely, there's no one to blame but themselves. I want to see TNA grow, I really do. I want to because it does give fans and wrestlers another high profile wrestling company. They decided to go head to head against the WWE and that's all fine and well. But just because things aren't turning out well for them isn't justification, at least in my eyes, for making excuses for TNA.

Well, the facts as you perceive them, but point taken.

In my mind the move was made way prematurely. Conquer, I don't know, SmackDown! before gunning for the big one. Not necessarily "one step at a time", but at least "have some fucking patience".

Other than that, I can't help but agree with you. No one should be making excuses, but unfortunately nobody's yet figured out just what is wrong with the product, for it to fail so incredibly hard, which is why a lot of these "excuses" turn up, as a way of trying to explain why it doesn't go as planned. Human nature, I guess.

TNA does make full use of those media outlets. Dixie Carter herself posts on Twitter. I'm not sure about Facebook but there are loads of TNA Wrestling content on YouTube. The internet fans are what makes up the vast majority of the TNA audience already. Most of TNA's audience consist of internet smarks and fans of the independent wrestling scene. What TNA has been unable to do is capture the attention of your average wrestling fan.

Look, Dixie posts about once in every blue moon and the TNA Wrestling content on YouTube is all kayfabe stuff. What TNA is missing the boat on here is the chance to use the Internet as a way to promote storylines. Kong vs Bubba, remember that? Spread shit like that around and you'll have a lot of curious people wondering what is kayfabe and what is real. THAT is how you attract attention these days, and KEEP it - by involving the fans and making them ask questions not posed by the federation itself.

It's hard to increase production values when you simply don't have the capital to do it. Now, don't get me wrong, I've no clue what TNA's finances look like and what their overall financial situation is. However, I think it's safe to assume that TNA doesn't have anywhere near the finances to tour all over the country, and even the world, on a regular basis as the WWE does. Otherwise, they probably would have already. This is another reason why a lot of fans, some of them TNA fans in particular, feel that it was a mistake trying to take on the WWE so soon. When it comes to production value, management and resources, TNA looks minor league compared to the WWE. The WWE often fills arenas that can hold 13, 14, 15,000 people or more on a regular basis while TNA often doesn't sell out venues that hold only 2,000 people.

I agree, but as I said, hopefully their revenue will increase in a fairly prompt manner, otherwise Panda WILL pull the plug and financing will go flush down the toilet.

TNA -is- minor league right now, and they need to push through that glass ceiling fast. The only way to do so is to increase revenue and get more sponsors. Tickle Panda for more dough, get Time Warner involved... who cares what they do, as long as they try to get more cashflow running through TNA.

TNA will never have a chance to go head-to-head with the WWE until they have a solid fanbase and a lot higher production values.

 

[TellMeWhy]

You've got to be kidding. WWE has been killing TNA in terms of putting on quality programming in the past month. Batista/Cena was done great as well as Undertaker/HBK. The Punk/Mysterio angle was good and the Edge/Jericho angle was solid. Abyss and Styles have actually gotten worse in my opinion and Beer Money complain about not being on TV when they are actually on TV. WWE is just better than TNA right now and has been for the past month.

Raw has sucked consistently for about the past year. The only time WWE is good is around WrestleMania time. After the WrestleMania effect wears off, they go back to the same old regular routine which is crap. The Sting heel turn, RVD's debut, Ric Flair in the wheelchair, the Jeff Jarrett angle have all made for good tv. WWE is a crapfest!

 

[jamaal mayes]

Not sure if you are aware, but NCIS that airs on Monday on USA are old episodes. The ratings for those viewings aren't bad at all, but not the juggernaught that NCIS is on Tuesdays when they are newer episodes. At 8pm on Mondays, they go against Chuck, Dancing with the Stars, The Big Bang Theory, and of course 24. DWTS and TBBT probably don't get the audience TNA wants, but 24 and Chuck sure as hell do. With 24 in its last season, I will be shocked if most men that watch it would switch off of the first hour of it. Thats like going up against NCIS or Lost on Tuesdays. It's suicide. If TNA pulls an overall rating of 1.0 or higher this week I will be very very impressed, but I don't see it. I predict a 0.8 for TNA and a 3.6 for WWE.

what i was saying is NCIS on cable USA network not new shows on broadcast CBS Avg. the 2 highest ratings on cable behind WWE for regular series.

 

[TellMeWhy]

I see some of the same old lame excuses for TNA are still flying around. For some odd reason, some TNA marks seem to believe that WrestleMania is the only time of year in which the WWE can put on quality and interesting programming. Is there some particular reason that the WWE can't continue to put on good programming?

Because they can't. There WrestleMania buildup and post WM shows are always good but after that, people can care less.

LetEmKnow, it was TNA and Spike that decided to do alternate weeks with taped and live shows. It's not as if anyone was forced to do this and it hasn't made much of a difference one way or another in terms of viewers.

Yes it has. Incase you aren't aware the 2 live shows have had higher ratings over the 2 taped shows.

As for this past Monday being the first time the WWE has proved a victor, you must have a contact high from watching Jeff Hardy and RVD matches. TNA came out guns blazing on March 8th. They threw out every surprise they could come up with, had big names pop up and that was enough to impress some people just as it did on January 4th. And, just like what happened with the aftermath of January 4th, the quality of and general interest in iMPACT! has been steadily dwindling ever since.

Lol are you kidding me. Maybe you like it but RAW has been filled with video packages, endless talk segments, dead silent crowds, promos, stupid guest host, 2-3 minute matches. The only week WWE arguable had a good week since TNA came on Mondays permanently was when Austin guest hosted and when they had WM Rewind matches and again, they went up against another taped show. Anytime, RAW goes up against a taped TNA show, u can always argue that RAW is better but in terms of live shows, so far TNA has one.

As for TNA not having the star power to compete with the WWE, I don't buy into that for a second. I've put it in on several other posts that TNA has the likes of Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Sting, Scott Hall, Kurt Angle, Eric Bischoff, Kevin Nash, Sean Waltman, Jeff Jarrett, The Dudleyz, Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam. TNA has some of the all time greats in wrestling and some of the biggest and most well known wrestlers from the past 15 years or so on its roster. TNA has plenty of star power, they're just not drawing. TNA has made the presence of many of these older and more established names one of the primary focuses of their product in the hopes of increasing the size of their audience. The lack of star power and lack of establishment crutches can no longer be used as excuses for failing ratings and quality of programming.

TNA has the starpower. They just don't market their stars enough to draw. There official move to Monday had about little to 0 marketing behind it.

The facts are that the quality of TNA's programming and its ratings have been steadily declining for a long while now, even before it's move to Monday nights permanently. TNA has blamed everything from the Olympics to football games to going against the WWE with alternating live and taped episodes of iMPACT! to it being WrestleMania time to blaming the HBK speech alone for the bad ratings of this Monday and on and on it goes. TNA decided to "declare war" on the WWE, TNA decided to move to Monday nights permanently, TNA claimed that it was going to take over Monday nights and so on and so forth. Nobody twisted TNA's arm to go up against the WWE. Face facts, it was a foolish decision on their part and all the lame excuses in the world isn't going to change those facts no matter how much Dixie, Hulk, Bischoff and the TNA marks would like it to happen.

It wasn't a foolish decision. They're going to grow their audience on a night where there is a huge fanbase. WWE fans who do happen to know about TNA's existance may happen to sample the TNA product once in a while and become fans. Just because they aren't doing stellar numbers within the first month doesn't make it a failure. Nothing comes easy in life!

 

[Tums]

Raw has sucked consistently for about the past year. The only time WWE is good is around WrestleMania time. After the WrestleMania effect wears off, they go back to the same old regular routine which is crap. The Sting heel turn, RVD's debut, Ric Flair in the wheelchair, the Jeff Jarrett angle have all made for good tv. WWE is a crapfest!

Thats funny cuz the ratings sure havnt shown what TNA has put out since moving to mondays has made for good tv.

TNA needs a lot of inside work before they can taunt the WWE and wrestling fans by saying they have a better more interesting product. If that was working we be seeing better ratings but obviously it is not so they got a lot of work to do. What TNA offers is not bad, they got a shit load of good talent but the way they use it and put it out is less than ideal, im sure as TNA keeps growing they will work out some of these kinks, I mean they have to but right now TNA has nothing at all to brag about, thats for damn sure. And they should be concerned about the ratings because thats what their television partner Spike cares about.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Thats funny cuz the ratings sure havnt shown what TNA has put out since moving to mondays has made for good tv.

TNA needs a lot of inside work before they can taunt the WWE and wrestling fans by saying they have a better more interesting product. If that was working we be seeing better ratings but obviously it is not so they got a lot of work to do. What TNA offers is not bad, they got a shit load of good talent but the way they use it and put it out is less than ideal, im sure as TNA keeps growing they will work out some of these kinks, I mean they have to but right now TNA has nothing at all to brag about, thats for damn sure. And they should be concerned about the ratings because thats what their television partner Spike cares about.

Yeah Smackdown gets less ratings than RAW by 14 points too, does that mean RAW is necessarily better than Smackdown? I love how people in general and WWE fans especially use ratings as a source of some type of shield for WWE putting on "good programming".

Lemme tell you that TNA doesn't have to concern themselves with ratings because believe it or not, they are still pulling above the Spiketv average. Nobodies watches Spiketv so there shows pull about a .4-.8's all the time. TNA is not concerned with that and Spike is behind them. TNA's main concern is with their own growth. That is the problem. The growth is too little for TNA but it's still a step which is what most of you fail to realize. From a 1hr show on 11PM on Saturday, to primetimes on Thursdays, to Mondays primetime. It's a step by step process. The numbers are low but I'm optimistic that they'll get back up.

TNA is not the perfect show by far. They have 2hrs a week and a roster arguably bigger and more talented than what WWE has. For the way they use their talent, I think they do the best they can considering the type of show they put on but the Jack-Hammers of the world will forever try to take away from TNA as much as possible with each and every post.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Raw has sucked consistently for about the past year. The only time WWE is good is around WrestleMania time. After the WrestleMania effect wears off, they go back to the same old regular routine which is crap. The Sting heel turn, RVD's debut, Ric Flair in the wheelchair, the Jeff Jarrett angle have all made for good tv. WWE is a crapfest!

Ah yes. The all-time great angle of Ric Flair acting deranged in a wheelchair (yawn) and the Jarrett angle where we are constantly reminded that he founded TNA (snooze).

WWE had the Jericho/Edge feud and the Cena/Batista feud which was decent. Orton is getting more and more face pops every week and the young guys are really stepping up unlike in TNA. WWE is better than TNA right now and I don't see any reason why that will change in the near future.

If you want to watch a midcarder like Young take on three old guys, then I'm not going to judge you.

 

[smfiscus1]

Ok...So WWE's WORST rated show is beating TNA. Insert Mr. Ron Simmons "DAMN!" Thanks, Ron.

Anyway...

NXT is full of midcarders, with the exception of Jericho, and I guess Miz kind of counts because he has so much gold right now and a bunch of guys we barely even know and they are beating TNA who has a plethora of guys who are established in either WWE or TNA. TNA is going against RAW??? What a joke! They can't even hang with the lowest rated WWE show! So I think they should take it one step at a time. If they can show that they can beat NXT, then maybe they can step up to Mondays, but for now, I say they move to Tuesday. They could still "feud" (haha) with WWE but not be creamed week in and week out by the premiere show.

 

[harrythem]

Because they can't. There WrestleMania buildup and post WM shows are always good but after that, people can care less.

I take exception with that remark mister. I care thank you very much. With so many names disappearing due to injury or other reasons in WWE it seems this year could be the most interesting post-Mania Season for quite some time. TNA, on the other hand, hasn't really got anything interesting going on (well if they have, it's been lost on me during all the confusion that is their monday night show)

Yes it has. Incase you aren't aware the 2 live shows have had higher ratings over the 2 taped shows.

That's like saying the shit I had this morning stunk more then the one I did last night, however you look at it, it's still shit. And, might I add, the second live show pulled a lower number then the first. Might've beaten the replay but still heading downwards.

Maybe you like it but RAW has been filled with video packages, endless talk segments, dead silent crowds, promos, stupid guest host, 2-3 minute matches.

Seriously, with the amount of shenanigans that happen on Impact you're going to use this as an arguement. Yes the guest host thing is lame, well part it's prime and should be dropped as soon as The Rock has done it but that aside, there doesn't seem much difference between the two on the above stakes. Hell, over here in the UK we get the TNA videos and also, as an added treat, bang in the middle of the show we get a band playing some generic rock song while highlights of TNA's last PPV are shown. As for the short matches, in case I've missed something, isn't that something that Vince Russo specialises in, citing that "in the age of the fickle channel hopping viewer, it's better to have short matches then long good ones?" That's from the TNA bookers mouth himself.

TNA has the starpower. They just don't market their stars enough to draw. There official move to Monday had about little to 0 marketing behind it.

I'll agree with you there. TNA has some serious star power which makes things even more worrying that they can't transform the talent into numbers. You look at the TNA numbers when they started and the WCW numbers when Nitro started and Nitro trounces TNA, and TNA has more stars and, confusing as they are, more relevant story lines then what Nitro had (even judging by 1995 standards).

It wasn't a foolish decision. They're going to grow their audience on a night where there is a huge fanbase. WWE fans who do happen to know about TNA's existance may happen to sample the TNA product once in a while and become fans. Just because they aren't doing stellar numbers within the first month doesn't make it a failure. Nothing comes easy in life!

I'm going to judge TNA's move in about a months time as, taking the Mania vibe into account, it would seem the deck is stacked against TNA with their time to move to Monday. I think it was a bit rash to move so quickly after Hogan & Bischoff came in. Me personally I'd have waited until they'd moved the Hogan-led story lines forward a bit, instead of the few weeks they gave them, and looked at moving more towards the month of August. I don't think TNA's going to make a true dent in the WWE's Monday Night stranglehold but, realistically, I don't expect them to. I give them kudos for having the balls to go for it as it's definately what wrestling needs (and, to TNA's credit, looking at Raw in MOST weeks recently, there has been a concerted effort to pick up their game, Mania on the way or not) but it just seems kind of like they've jumped the gun way to quickly, and the ratings are showing it at present. I hope it works out in the long run and TNA ends up a very successful number two promotion instead of a distant number two but that's going to take time and patience from the people running the company. Oh, and from fans of both companies (and I do watch both shows, even if they're poor) to stop the whole "TNA's low ratings are because of Mania" as, to me, that reeks of denial (I also can't stand WWE fans declaring TNA as dead in the water because of low ratings either)

It's more people watching wrestling on a Monday night then for a while, let's just share the wrestling love!

and how I miss the wonder of Mantaur!!