Mistake, Yes or No?

[Dave]

So, I was watching Breaking Point earlier on and I noticed someone quite strange that I don't think I have seen before, or at least as openly. So, I was watching the DX vs Legacy match and as Triple H and Shawn Michaels got warmed up and did their thing in the ring, Triple H openly announced that the 1997 Montreal Screwjob. Naturally, people started booing loudly and Shawn Michaels got booed out of the arena at every opportunity. Now, I have two points to raise in this thread.

The first question being: Was this a mistake? I mean, when you are in Montreal, I would think that you would have a little bit more tact than to openly announce the screwjob against a national icon. I mean, obviously Bret Hart means more to the people in Canada and to go to Montreal and openly announce the Screwjob, in my mind, is a huge mistake. DX are supposed to be the fan favourites and after this they were chastised by the Canadian fans. By aknowledging the 1997 screwjob, did DX intentionally make themselves out to be the people to hate?

My second is question is in much the same vein. Why would you do that? I mean, every time they go in to the fans you hear chants of "You screwed Bret" and fans booing Michaels. Is this the message that Vince was trying to set for the fan favourites? Or did they realise that this was going to happen anyway and just thought that they would make light of the subject in order to make it comedic? Also, when they did this and they saw the hostile reaction that the fans gave to DX, why would they continue with the Punk/Taker angle at the end? Are they intentionally trying to piss off Canadians.

"Yeah, come to Canada because if you are wrestling, you are probably going to get screwed out of something". By that I mean, if they were going to run a screwjob angle, why would you do it in Montreal of all places? Montreal locals will begin to become disenchanted with the product if that is all that WWE see them as. Your thoughts?

 

[The Dewbliners]

I think it comes down more to McMahon treating Canada as though they're a kind of "Bizzarro World" when it comes to his product. It seems almost as though he knows the fans up there are bound to hate Michaels, no matter what he does. So, why not play it up? Do I think it's a good move? Not really. But, that's why McMahon's running an international wrestling promotion, and I'm stuck working two sucky jobs. I'd expect them to mention it just about anytime the WWE is in the "Great White North".

 

[Innovator_Of_Offense]

I think there was two schools of thought for the promo DX cut. the first we make light of the situation joke around admit some fault do our whole childish DX schtick and through the magic of wrestling a definite no-no becomes alright.

OR, The thought process was...Screw it if they don't bite we have Michaels tapping out anyways what better way to send people home happy after reminding them of the act of sodomy we preformed on their national hero.


And lastly its near November the time of year the first screwjob took place it was the same town its kind of a history repeats itself sort of deal. I know I was myself wondering it was gonna happen, just beacuse it happened when Hogan faced The Rock in Montreal. So its kind of a hook in for next time. Will it happen? A little Montreal curse to spice things up when they're out there. Anywhere else it just wouldn't mean as much.

 

[ztwhite]

It has been mentioned before when the WWE has went north of the border.

For several years, HBK didn't appear at WWE shoes in Canada, whethr it was a Raw, Smackdown, PPV or house show - he simply avoided the country.

Then a few years back, when he made his "return" to Canada he cut a nice promo about the Screwjob where he semi-apologized without actually saying the words "I was involved".

Either way - at this point in time - does it really matter ? There are a lot of screwjobs that have been orchestrated by Vince over the years, maybe not one with such significance and staying power, but there have been others.

 

[Motor City Mayhem]

Guys I am from Montreal so I have first hand knowledge when I say this.

We will love Shawn Michaels forever, he is amazing, but we will not forget what he did to Bret Hart and we will always boo him, whether Triple H made that comment or not, we were going to boo anyway, Plain And Simple.

Its not that we hate Shawn Michaels ( Some do Most don't ) its more just you screwed a fellow Canadian, you don't do that here, we will remember and we will boo you forever.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if he becomes a Canadian citizen and lives in Montreal the rest of his life, or if Triple H acknowledged it or if not, we would have said "You Screwed Bret" the whole dam night regardless.

 

[xNEWxAMERiKAx]

I think it would be worse to act like it never happened at all. Obviously there are still people who can't let it go, and based on the reaction from that particular crowd, most have. Also, Shawn was not booed out of the arena, he was actually cheered pretty well at Breaking Point and on Raw last night. So no, it was not a mistake, people should be able now to have a laugh about it. Now the stupid Montreal Screwjob finish, that was a mistake.

Actually, I think most of the "You Screwed Bret!" chants weren't meant to be taken as hate towards Michaels. I say this soley based on the positive reactions he got. I think it would be weird for people in Montreal not to chant "You Screwed Bret!"

 

[Liberace]

Well let's put it this way there are 3 mistakes I do not like DX or the fan who held a sign that said deep penetration x DPX lol I think they should add Hart Dynasty vs Legacy or something Cryme Tyme as well! Back then you had many tag teams that fought different matches not the same tag team match for sooo long it's tiring! LEGACY will win it coz they are getting the huge push they deserve and the 2 old farts HHH and HBK will put them over as the untouchable team! Mentioning and reminding us of the incident in Survivor Series 97 about the screwjob shows you what a dick hot horny and hard is you put the fuel in the fire even more and use it sarcastically and blame your buddy for it
Mistake #2 Originally it was planned that Undertaker would win it and Orton would retain it till Survivor Series! But Vince figured last minute to erase our minds with the Bret Hart incident and hates the "you screwed brett" chants so he decided to reprogram our thoughts so we can say after "you screwed taker"instead but shall he screwed his hommoboytoy John Cena who sucks up to him and kisses his ass we 'd all be ecstatic coz I ll say it again the whole damn BELL CENTER JEERED CENA over 80% while 20% CHEERED CENA Our chants were loud "CENA SUX" and "Let's go ORTON" and so on
If anyone disagrees with me go ahead I know I was there live and we can echo below the ringside seats as we yell our lungs out of frustration! Orton T-Shirts were all sold out at the kiosks and obviously it tells you he is an ICON CANADA likes! He is the badass but he needs to change his character and go half ROCK and half JERICHO
This monotone robot like with less mic skills and with glaring eyes makes himself look like a psycho it helps but make a character change already and the fact he quit should've never happend LEGACY should've come out as a distraction and CENA would ve lost there as he handcuffed him and put the STFU on CENA but immediately McMoron scrapped it off and decided to replace you screwed brett with you screwed taker ! Nice but cheap!!

 

[samboisdead]

Well first off i dont think the screwjob really pisses Canadian fans off anymore. By this point half of them probably didnt even watch wrestling when it happened. I think they enjoy it I mean it gives them an idenitiy and you no the chants are going to happen everytime. As far as DX kind of playing heels, well they new if you liked them you liked them and the fans who didnt like them would hate them the same even more. It is totally in their charachter to make fun of and piss off the fans who dont like them even more. I mean after all isnt that what the original DX was about. Basically it was a group who just didnt give a f_ _ _ . Honestly it probably got a huge pop from alot of American fanboys at home as Canadian bashing is considered fun by most thanks to shows like Southpark and so forth. Also to the poster above me I am pretty sure Vince loves the you screwed Brett chants as it is money. He could make a dvd about it tommorow and it would be probably be one of the top sellers ever.

 

[Super Crazy]

Well let's put it this way there are 3 mistakes I do not like DX or the fan who held a sign that said deep penetration x DPX lol I think they should add Hart Dynasty vs Legacy or something Cryme Tyme as well! Back then you had many tag teams that fought different matches not the same tag team match for sooo long it's tiring! LEGACY will win it coz they are getting the huge push they deserve and the 2 old farts HHH and HBK will put them over as the untouchable team! Mentioning and reminding us of the incident in Survivor Series 97 about the screwjob shows you what a dick hot horny and hard is you put the fuel in the fire even more and use it sarcastically and blame your buddy for it
Mistake #2 Originally it was planned that Undertaker would win it and Orton would retain it till Survivor Series! But Vince figured last minute to erase our minds with the Bret Hart incident and hates the "you screwed brett" chants so he decided to reprogram our thoughts so we can say after "you screwed taker"instead but shall he screwed his hommoboytoy John Cena who sucks up to him and kisses his ass we 'd all be ecstatic coz I ll say it again the whole damn BELL CENTER JEERED CENA over 80% while 20% CHEERED CENA Our chants were loud "CENA SUX" and "Let's go ORTON" and so on
If anyone disagrees with me go ahead I know I was there live and we can echo below the ringside seats as we yell our lungs out of frustration! Orton T-Shirts were all sold out at the kiosks and obviously it tells you he is an ICON CANADA likes! He is the badass but he needs to change his character and go half ROCK and half JERICHO
This monotone robot like with less mic skills and with glaring eyes makes himself look like a psycho it helps but make a character change already and the fact he quit should've never happend LEGACY should've come out as a distraction and CENA would ve lost there as he handcuffed him and put the STFU on CENA but immediately McMoron scrapped it off and decided to replace you screwed brett with you screwed taker ! Nice but cheap!!

I'm sorry but for you to honestly sit there and say that that McMahon went and changed the plans at the last minute just to please you fans in Montreal is ridiculous. I am sure that the ending was planned out and was kayfabe, unlike the original screwjob. Not to mention, I bet that if Taker and Punk and Long came back to Montreal, you guys would not scream out " YOU SCREWED TAKER ". And are you an insider of the WWE? If so, tell us all their upcoming creative plans, I love spoilers, really I do.

And saying Orton should change his gimmick, this would not be good. Half Rock/ half Jericho would not suit him at all. The character he is playing right now is perfect for him. I love his psycopathic thought process and how much he is still slowly improving.

Anyway on to the topic at hand here. I feel that it was not a mistake what they did. I think by them acknowledging it, they were saying, we are over it guys, why can't you be? Just laugh it off with us. It was a nice attempt to make light of the situation, but it didn't quite do what they were hoping I'd say. And I bet " You Screwed Bret " is Montreal's way of cheering on Shawn. I mean the majority of the crowd seemed to be laughing when Triple H said it was all Shawn, I personally got a good kick out of it.

As far as booing Cena goes, were you in the same arena? I am pretty sure I heard cheers for Cena during the match. But oh well, I guess I just wasn't watching the same pay per view as you were....

Sorry for shitting on your opinion, but it's an opinion based forum, and my opinion is that your's is wrong.

 

[Chadmw]

As a Canadian I have one thing to say to all other fellow Canadians about the Montreal screw job GET OVER IT. It's been 13 years, let it go people.

Besides my whole take on the Montreal screwjob is Mcmahon was right to do it. He had already seen his women's champ show up on WCW with one of his belts. Hell he even did it himself with Ric Flairs original run in the WWE when he brought the NWA/WCW championship with him. The last thing he needed was his biggest title showing up on WCW

As for HBK, he was just doing what his boss told him to do, while I am sure he did enjoy doing it since him and Brett did not like each other, in the end he was just doing what he was told to do.

 

[WinstonDeckard]

Fans not letting go? I hear this all the time about Canadian fans, I'll let you all in on a little secret about Canadian fans since I am one and have been to my fair share of WWE events. We honestly don't give a shit about the screwjob. Hell most of the fans that go to arenas in Canada barely have a cursory knowledge of the event. We just love to have fun and get involved with the show. If somebody starts up booing Cena then we all start booing. If somebody just offers up "You Screwed Bret" chants then we all start to chime in. We don't give a shit we just like to get our money's worth. When we pay 40-80 bucks for a ticket we're not going to sit on our hands and be spectators, we want to participate and have some fun. That's it.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

Well let's put it this way there are 3 mistakes I do not like DX or the fan who held a sign that said deep penetration x DPX lol I think they should add Hart Dynasty vs Legacy or something Cryme Tyme as well! Back then you had many tag teams that fought different matches not the same tag team match for sooo long it's tiring! LEGACY will win it coz they are getting the huge push they deserve and the 2 old farts HHH and HBK will put them over as the untouchable team! Mentioning and reminding us of the incident in Survivor Series 97 about the screwjob shows you what a dick hot horny and hard is you put the fuel in the fire even more and use it sarcastically and blame your buddy for it
Mistake #2 Originally it was planned that Undertaker would win it and Orton would retain it till Survivor Series! But Vince figured last minute to erase our minds with the Bret Hart incident and hates the "you screwed brett" chants so he decided to reprogram our thoughts so we can say after "you screwed taker"instead but shall he screwed his hommoboytoy John Cena who sucks up to him and kisses his ass we 'd all be ecstatic coz I ll say it again the whole damn BELL CENTER JEERED CENA over 80% while 20% CHEERED CENA Our chants were loud "CENA SUX" and "Let's go ORTON" and so on
If anyone disagrees with me go ahead I know I was there live and we can echo below the ringside seats as we yell our lungs out of frustration! Orton T-Shirts were all sold out at the kiosks and obviously it tells you he is an ICON CANADA likes! He is the badass but he needs to change his character and go half ROCK and half JERICHO
This monotone robot like with less mic skills and with glaring eyes makes himself look like a psycho it helps but make a character change already and the fact he quit should've never happend LEGACY should've come out as a distraction and CENA would ve lost there as he handcuffed him and put the STFU on CENA but immediately McMoron scrapped it off and decided to replace you screwed brett with you screwed taker ! Nice but cheap!!

I think this guy (^) is a mistake....


I don't really think it was a mistake for Trips to mention the screwjob. I mean, the crowd there would have chanted "You screwed Brett" the whole match regardless. Why not make light of it, it wasn't rubbing it in their faces, Trips was making fun of HBK so I thought it was fine and kind of fun. I didn't mind it one bit.

The end of the Taker/Punk match was genious I thought. It keeps the title and momentum with Punk and keeps Taker looking strong and dominate. Win-Win situation.

Canadians (especially this guy above) need to get over it and as Motor City Mahem said: Have fun with the chants if HBK is in Canada or whatever and keep the jeering going, it's funny and WWE are going to expect it. However, I think Canadians need to stop seriously whinning about something that happened over 10 yrs ago and just laugh at the situation and enjoy giving some stick to HBK or whoever when WWE is in your country.

Anyways, no mistakes with any of the screwjob references at Breaking Point, I loved it

 

[jokerjoe110]

It is 12 years now!! Seriously, whoever is still upset about this needs to grow up, or find a hobby instead of crying like little girls because it is sincerely obnoxious to read all these posts. Bret is over it I'm pretty sure you can let it go now too.

 

[Razor]

Well let's put it this way there are 3 mistakes

You needed a period there, FYI.

I do not like DX or the fan who held a sign that said deep penetration x DPX lol

Was that the kid you were teasing because you're such a big, strong man?

I think they should add Hart Dynasty vs Legacy or something Cryme Tyme as well! Back then you had many tag teams that fought different matches not the same tag team match for sooo long it's tiring!

So. Let me get this straight. Instead of a focused, coherent feud you want a clusterfuck of 4 tag teams competing at once? With no regard for storyline or relevance or face/heel relationships?

LEGACY will win it coz they are getting the huge push they deserve and the 2 old farts HHH and HBK will put them over as the untouchable team!

How is this bad? You just wanted a simultaneous 4 tag team feud, so you'll have to explain how this is worse than the outcome of a 4 tag team feud.

Mentioning and reminding us of the incident in Survivor Series 97 about the screwjob shows you what a dick hot horny and hard is you put the fuel in the fire even more and use it sarcastically and blame your buddy for it

"Hot, Horny, and Hard?" Is that even an insult? Sounds like a compliment, to me. It goes to show he's not suffering from ED, at least.

Mistake #2 Originally it was planned that Undertaker would win it and Orton would retain it till Survivor Series!

How in the fuck do you know this? Seriously?

But Vince figured last minute to erase our minds with the Bret Hart incident and hates the "you screwed brett" chants so he decided to reprogram our thoughts so we can say after "you screwed taker"instead

Lulz, you're right. Vince was trying to brainwash you. I swear.

but shall he screwed his hommoboytoy John Cena who sucks up to him and kisses his ass we 'd all be ecstatic coz I ll say it again the whole damn BELL CENTER JEERED CENA over 80% while 20% CHEERED CENA Our chants were loud "CENA SUX" and "Let's go ORTON" and so on

Everyone who booed Cena for the reasons you did are just doing so to try and prove they're grown up and are rebelling. They're all jackasses. Don't ruin the damn show for people, or you'll start getting compared to those idiots at the Hammerstein Ballroom. They were one of the most ******ed crowds I've ever heard. But then again, they actually cheered Sabu. I should have expected that.

If anyone disagrees with me go ahead I know I was there live and we can echo below the ringside seats as we yell our lungs out of frustration! Orton T-Shirts were all sold out at the kiosks and obviously it tells you he is an ICON CANADA likes! He is the badass but he needs to change his character and go half ROCK and half JERICHO

Right. Because everyone can pull off the ROCK gimmick, let alone the JERICHO one.

Let's just have Orton drop the gimmick that has been working for him for the past 2 years. If you ignore the weird cheers he's been getting, of course.

This monotone robot like with less mic skills and with glaring eyes makes himself look like a psycho

1) ..That's his character....

2) His style is one that literally forces the pops into the hands of the face. If you weren't weird little man-children that cheered the psycho just to cheer him, you'd understand this.

it helps but make a character change already and the fact he quit should've never happend LEGACY should've come out as a distraction

..Then Orton would have lost the title, as stipulated by McMahon. didn't he make the announcement that if Legacy interfered for Orton he'd lose the title immediately? That would have really helped with his, you know, keeping the title.

and CENA would ve lost there as he handcuffed him and put the STFU on CENA but immediately McMoron scrapped it off and decided to replace you screwed brett with you screwed taker ! Nice but cheap!!

Seriously. You're making no sense, and you're accusing McMahon of some weird psychological bullshit that would imply he actually cares what Canadians think about the Screwjob.


---

About the thread, I can't care either way. The Screwjob wasn't even a screwjob. It was McMahon taking the title off of Bret because he wanted his title off of Bret. Bret would have lost the title that next Raw anyway, so what? Sure..it sucked for Bret's ego and it wasn't the most respectful thing to do. But to still be mad at McMahon for making a valid business decision is inane, childish, and just plain juvenile.

If Triple H wants to taunt them, then more power to him. It completely goes against the whole "I'm a face" mentality, but it's not like Triple H was going to get the cheers he was supposed to get anyway. He's in fucking Canada. Might as well play up the part of arrogant, American prick while you're there.

Now go make your horrible man-child puns somewhere else.

 

[Ubiquitous]

I've actually heard more americans complain about Canadians needing to get over the screwjob. Just because they like to have fun while Michaels is in the building doesn't mean they all have this red hot hatred for him. He did screw bret, they're just reminding him. I mean, when was the last time Bret hart was actually relevant anyway? Michaels got his fair share of cheers at breaking point. Its just something Canadians do. Just like cheering anyone from canada. Face, heel, hell they could be from the other side of the country. Its just fun.

 

[JBK2008]

It's been over for a long long time now and after all these years, they still hate Shawn Michaels. That's fine and all and I know they just do it to remind him, but when they faced Legacy, I thought they'd cheer for him, at least I thought so until I saw the finish to the match. I guess it was a way of returning the favor after all these years.

 

[Xcaliber2001]

I think it comes down to the fact that wrestling fans are habitual creatures. Not only do they still chant "You Screwed Bret" but they even yelled 'What!?" during the Dolph Ziggler segment and Stone Cold hasn't used that phrase for almost a decade. That's why it was so easy for Hollywood Hogan to come back as the Hulkster because of the "lore" that surrounded him. Sure he was a great heel for years...but as soon as you hear "Real American" and see that shirt ripped off followed up by the vintage adrenaline rush you have to scream "YOU!!" when he points at his upcoming victim.
"You Screwed Bret" has become part of the pro wrestling dictionary and I think WWE, Vince, Shawn have accepted that which is why D-X were able to poke fun at it.
And let's not forget...We know it was Vince's idea...but it was HBK AND HHH that knew and were on board. ANNNDDD....This will be the 2nd time HBK has tapped out in Canada since 97. First to Chris Benoit...in the sharpshooter! And now this...I love it!

 

[Slam Master]

Shawn Michaels was the one that said he'd do whatever it took to get the title off Bret, and HHH was the one who told Vince to do business for him, so they were a little more in on it than just listening to Vince. Either way, the fans are always going to chant that no matter what because its been grinded into stone as a crowd mannerism in Canada. Bret Hart will always be a touchy subject because he was their Canadian hero and he was a great wrestler who had an unhappy ending with the WWF, but it could have been prevented by doing business with the company that made him and gave him the opportunity to go back and get the $2.8 million contract while still under WWF.

The ending with Punk/Undertaker was cheesy and a blatant reminder of the screwjob(not directly like 1997, but an act of screwing the Undertaker). At least the bell wasn't rung prematurely.

 

[Tastycles]

The whole thing was entirely brought up by the crowd and not DX. I wonder if DX would have mentioned it at all if the crowd hadn't been chanting "You screwed Bret". It's actually very sad that they were doing that, but in all honesty a guy was cheated out of a win in an artificial competition 12 years ago and people need to let go, lord knows Bret Hart has, so why the fuck can't you?

I don't blame HHH for making light of it, and he was actually being quite snide about it, saying they couldn't let go, which is completely true. If you want to protest what happened to Bret, how about you don't pay £50 to Vince so you can go and boo him?

 

[ChristianRivers]

You knew the only way the Punk was going to win was a Screw Job. What turned me off on Breaking Point was Teddy Long taking Vickie's place as the heel GM. Also trying to mention that the "Death Sentence" aka "Devil's Gate" was still banned, and would be banned in the Hell in a Cell. The screw job for Breaking Point was not a mistake. It was just a way to get the fans riled up enough to tune into the next PPV.

Bret Hart from all accounts I've read, and even when you watch the "Wrestling with Shadows" documentary its clear Bret wanted to go out on top before he left for WCW. Then we got that whole thing with Bret Hart depending on who you ask he either writes WCW or nWo in the air. On the documentary that A&E showed Bret Hart said he punched Vince in the mouth, and also it showed Shawn Michaels saying that he specifically had no idea that the leg was going to be pulled and the sharp shooter reversed. Of course as an American fan I thought it made for good television. I am also the biggest critic on the face of the planet, and have a very high standard for what comes across my screen. I dislike over 80 percent what Vince actually tries to do for the PPV's. And I especially hated the entire Breaking Point ppv except for Legacy going over DX. The Christian vs Regal was decent.

What it comes down to is wrestling fans love to relive the moment. Vince tries to control his crowds but he can't control the American crowds, and he damn sure can't control the Canadian ones.

 

[Milkyway!]

You knew the only way the Punk was going to win was a Screw Job.

I'm fairly certain you mean "that Punk was going to win was a Screw Job" but I'm not entirely sure.

Actually, I had a few scenario's built up into my head as to how this was going to play out.

Number 1, Punk just leaves. The match would be ruled a No Contest.

Number 2, Punk gets Disqualified. It had never happened in a submission match, and for good reason. The WWE never officially stated that Submission matches have no DQ, until Breaking Point.

Number 3, The UnderTaker passes out, instead of the old fasion tapout. As the Andaconda Vice is a choke hold, it made perfect sense to simply let him pass out by the Submission. As this would not be the first time The UnderTaker has passed out during a match, and lost due to that. Thus, it wouldn't be a "Tapout" either, would it?

Number 4, The Undertaker wins.

What turned me off on Breaking Point was Teddy Long taking Vickie's place as the heel GM.

Ehh, I'm not entirely sure the role they were trying to put Teddy Long in. But they quickly turned him face again with the next RAW, no harm done.

Also trying to mention that the "Death Sentence" aka "Devil's Gate" was still banned,

Trying? Incase you didn't notice, he did. I've never heard it called the Death Sentence, either. Its called "The Devil's Gate" by the Undertaker, but the original name is "gogoplata"

and would be banned in the Hell in a Cell.

Nothing was mentioned about Hell in a Cell, as the match wasn't even announced until this past Friday Night SmackDown. Sillyhead.

The screw job for Breaking Point was not a mistake.

Thats not what the question asked, either.

It was just a way to get the fans riled up enough to tune into the next PPV.

I assumed it was to pick on the citizens of Montreal, as they always do when they go to Canada. They simply can't let go. So, the WWE plays into that.

Bret Hart from all accounts I've read, and even when you watch the "Wrestling with Shadows" documentary its clear Bret wanted to go out on top before he left for WCW.

Incorrect, he refused to put over Shawn Michaels, on his way out. As there was a long line of hate between the two. Bret refers to him as a "Lying Piece of Chickenshit" if I'm not mistaken. Bret was ALL for putting over Stone Cold on his way out, and giving him the title. Though.

On the documentary that A&E showed Bret Hart said he punched Vince in the mouth,

While he was naked, actually.