You again? This will be fun. Couldn't resist could you?
As far as I'm concerned, as long as this is a privately run operation, the company can choose what rules to enforce. If they want to make rule saying only naturally born women can compete, that is their right, and they should have the ability to enforce that rule.
This is the only point in which we will be in agreement as I've already read the rest of this and we are really really in for some more fun here.
With that said, were I a citizen of Canada, I would make sure to let them know how disgusting I find their active discrimination by not watching their program, and by not participating in any way, even to the point of encouraging others to also stay away from this competition. Since they ARE a private company, that is my right. I choose to not condone the morality behind the decision, even though I respect the fact it is their decision to make.
The morality behind the decision? As if it were immoral of them to deny this person who is most definitely is a man, who has underwent surgical procedures to APPEAR as a woman, and therefore doesn't meet the criteria to be in an all women's beauty pageant to compete? And it's also supposedly discrimination? Man you never cease to amaze me with your far left bullshit. No matter how badly you want to make it an issue of discrimination, and throw your hand up like it's some injustice against someone, it simply isn't. I know that's hard for you to comprehend, and that's your right to be that stupid, but you remain stupid nonetheless.
(sorry, you always resort to simply calling people stupid for not seeing things in your distorted vision, so I thought you were due to taste your own medicine)
I disagree, I think there are far more things which make a woman a woman. Their mental and emotional state, their genitalia, their behaviors and characteristics, their hormonal levels, and most importantly, how they honestly identify themselves.
I'm glad you think that, and in some ways you are right. The thing is most of that such as mental and emotional state, characteristics and behaviors, hormonal levels, self identity, they are all prevalent from birth, they are unique to that gender, and as I've said already, no amount of alteration changes what already naturally is. Sure, you can take hormones, you can have surgeries, but that doesn't change the actual mental or emotional characteristics and behaviors.
Even though you can take drugs to manipulate hormone levels, without that manipulation and without surgical procedures, there is no question that what you have is a man through and through. Just because someone may act a certain way, or say "I think of myself this way" doesn't mean they are that. I could walk around and say "I identify myself as Batman" but I sure as fuck am not no matter how incessantly I say and profess to believe I am. I can dawn the mask and cape, start going after criminals in acts of vigilante justice, drive a wicked tricked out car, and It doesn't matter, I will not be Batman, I'll be a crazy fuck TRYING to be Batman.
Using "X" and "Y" to determine a woman is as simplistic as saying killing people is bad. It doesn't take into account the variety of reasons which make up the actual person/decision.
Sometimes the answer is just that simple, and in this case it was. I also want to focus on what you said here about "A variety of reasons which make up the actual person" and most of all the KEY WORD "DECISION". You're talking about personal development, which is separate from biological development. "Jenna" naturally developed into a man, and through unnatural processes went through the motions to be as close to being a woman as possible. Unfortunately close only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades. You can look like a woman, talk like a woman, dress like a woman, and even mimic what you perceive to be the feminine traits that identify the characteristics of a female, but the truth will always be that you are in fact a male with identity issues, striving to be something you are not.
The rules are discriminatory. I understand that people of your "ilk" have no problem discriminating against people for things they never had a choice in, but for those of us who recognize the concept of all people having the right to choose who they are, and letting their actions determine the person, it's hard to accept discrimination.
Ya see, it's stuff like this that makes you so intolerable. Regardless of whether or not you THINK the rules are discriminatory, they are not, and you can't illustrate how they are because of that fact. You can try to spin a technicality by saying that the requirements themselves "discriminate" regarding who can and can not compete, but there is a difference between "parameters of qualification" and "discrimination" as you are trying to use it. Of course you have no leg to stand on though, so you resort to making accusations of people. Here's another piece of advice too, just because you consistently repeat a lie, that doesn't make it any more true. You seem to think if you just keep calling it "discrimination" that it is so or that anyone will be swayed by that. You are wrong. Not everyone is as radical in their ideals, beliefs, or reasoning as you are. That might be hard to get through your thick skull but it's a reality you'll have to deal with someday, like today.
What exactly slick, makes you think a person doesn't have a choice in undergoing procedures as extreme as emasculation, hormone therapy, genital plastic surgery, and so on? I didn't realize someone was holding their neck to the chopping block there. I recognize the concept of all people having the right to choose who they are, but it's an unavoidable fact that if you are a man from day one, no matter what you do to yourself you are a man in death as well. I also recognize and accept letting peoples actions determine who they are as a person. No one is saying anything about who they are as a person, that speaks more to the character and make-up of who the person is, their personality, their ideals and beliefs, personal interests and preferences, not sex. I'm sorry if you were born a man and at some point you decided you wanted to be a woman, that in a literal sense, and the sense that those individuals want it to be, is impossible. You were born what you are and you can't change that.
First of all, drag queens are completely different from this situation, for reasons I believe SalvIsWin mentioned. Second of all, what stops them? The fact they aren't beautiful enough to be there. This woman obviously was.
Yeah genius I know that, but the example served to illustrate another point that neither you or him seemed to get. I did explain it for him though so you can look at my previous post to find out how that applied. Secondly, what stops them is that MEN CAN'T COMPETE, and that's the bottom line because the Canadian Miss Universe Pageant Officials Said So.
Something I find kind of funny here is that as much as you try to paint me as some caricature of a stereotype that you have to paint anyone that you disagree with, you sure don't know shit about me or any of my experiences in life. You just assume I'm this big homophobe, that I hate any and all LGBT people, and I'm this representation of whatever it is you need me to be in order to be right or justified in your lame bullshit trolling. That's why you are a babbling idiot. However, I have been friends and still am friends with a lot of people in the LGBT community, I stand for their rights in the purest sense, and I have known a TON of drag queens in my time and I guarantee YOU wouldn't know the difference until you reached under their skirt whether or not they were a man or woman. But here we are, and YOU are the one who is actually discriminating against drag queens, stating that they aren't beautiful enough, projecting this stereotype of a drag queen that you've conjured up in your own mind, profiling them in the process. Fuck you make this easy!
Ever been to a drag show Mr.Lib? I have, tons of them. It's different, I'll tell you that much. But your exclamation that "What stops them is that they aren't beautiful enough to be there" just shows how little you really know about it, and how detached from that part of society you really are. I live in Iowa, one of the first and only states to legalize gay marriage, one of the only bastions of hope and freedom in this country for LGBT people to go and be free from the fear of real discrimination and being treated like second class citizens. We have a huge Gay Pride parade every year, a large gay community that does not have to hide itself, Plenty of gay owned businesses, and as I mentioned drag shows all the time, it's practically it's own industry here. I couldn't avoid it if I wanted to, but luckily I'm not worried about it. I embraced the LGBT community a long time ago, and they liked having the support. The only difference between me and you is that I support them regardless of what I think of it personally.
You see, someone can personally disagree with homosexuality itself, and still support the rights of those who are homosexual. It's called human fucking decency which you clearly don't have, it's one extreme or the other with you, and that's why you can't understand me. You see, I'm not a fucking extremist, my views don't shift so far to one side of the other like you, and I don't see those whose views differ from my own as lesser people like you do. I frown upon the kind of blatant idiocy you display in your extremism, it makes me fucking sick, but I don't think you less of a person. I just think it's fucking sad that you can't see the separation between someone having personal views that conflict with the views of other people they know, and that same person being able to be friends with those people, support them in their trials, and actually care about them rather than use them and their trials as a tool to demonize people I don't like or disagree with like you do.
That is what is truly sick, and the way you make martyrs of them is a disservice to all the progress that has been made for and by them. They don't want to be martyrs, they just want to be accepted for who they are, and treated with the same respect and dignity that anyone else would demand. I give them that, not because "I am so gracious to be kind to the heathen" as you would make it out to be, but because it's right, and because they do deserve it regardless of whether or not a agree or disagree with being LGBT.
And that's convenient for you, because if you accept this discrimination, it's easy for you to keep blacks out of restaurants, women out of the workplace, and the white man can rightfully take his place as the ruler of the world, right?
You're the only one talking about any of that or bringing it up. Who said anything about keeping blacks out of restaurants, women out of the workplace, or any of the other shit you fabricate in your head? Once again, you can't just accept that it's not an issue of discrimination, because if the person you are arguing with isn't being discriminatory, isn't a racist, isn't trying to keep women out of the workplace, and so on, you are just a bag of hot air spewing stupid shit that has nothing to do with the person you disagree with. It's just a cheap tactic to tear down views you don't like by associating them with people of the opposite extreme you represent.
Yes, and if you were born an atheist, you are an atheist, period. Nothing can change that, and nothing will.
Right?
Wrong again Skip. No one is BORN an atheist, it's an ideology or a philosophy people acquire over time. It's a conscious decision someone makes as it pertains to the existence of God, not a pre-ordained way of thinking. It's a conscious decision, just like someone getting a sex change operation. The point of the whole thing however, is that no amount of operations changes the fact that the individual is indeed a man. Tough noogies on you not being able to comprehend or accept that. That's just what it is, and it's not discriminating against someone to say "I'm sorry, this is a competition for women, and while you appear to be a woman we know you are indeed a man which disqualifies you from competing in this women's only competition". Those are just called RULES. It's obvious you don't like those much either huh? Rules in your mind are "discrimination". Once again, that's why you are the one who is stupid.
