Predestination vs. Free Will

[Spidey Revivey]

Predestination Vs Free Will is one of the oldest and most intriguing philosophical arguments in human history. Many philosophers also consider it among the most important questions. Does predestination, also known as determinism, rule our every decision or our very cosmic fate even before we are born? Is the universe determined and mechanical, or not? Or does free will make more sense than predestination? Do we have the ability to make individual choices? Is there nothing actually set in stone? Is this a question that demands quantum physics, or a distinctive line between omnipotence and omniscience? These bring up incredible questions of the role of destiny, whether all life is destiny or can there be bits of destiny among a life filled with otherwise free will based decisions? Are the Calvinists right about predestination, or are the adamant free will believers correct? Is there any way to really truly know?

There you have it. It's a question that has surfaced in mankind's subconscious for a very, very long time. Does Fate drive us onward, or do you believe it's you and I that drive our lives forward? Maybe you believe in both to some degree. I have checked out The Cigar Lounge for a bit and I do notice from time to time the discussions get pretty philosophical, so I thought maybe we should give this a go.

Do you believe an unknown source, ex. God or Fate, impact our decisions from the moment we are born? Or do you believe we have a free choice in all matters of our lives? please discuss

As for me, I believe in free will. It can be disputed that a higher power gave us free will while also determining our future. But I am not one that believes that. I think it's my own doing if I were to say, screw up at school. I'd like to think that it isn't Fate that chose that for me, but my own recklessness that bought paid for the consequences.

NOTE: This isn't a subject for bashing Christians, Agnostics, etc. So please don't turn it into that. This is a philisophical discussion for intellectuals.

 

[Xemmy]

Free will seems like the easy answer. Without free will, no one is responsible for their own actions (I was destined to do it). Predestiny can work around this, but only as long as it does not govern all of existence. Of course, if destiny is only working part-time, then it comes to some people having free will, and others not.

On the otherside of the table, Free will is screwed if there is an all knowing, infallible God.
In order to know everything, time has to be set in stone- meaning we're on the course to a future that has no possibility of being changed. This means that no one's decision are their own, and no one can change these decisions, because it would prove God wrong. I've heard the argument repeatedly that God knows all possible futures, and that's how he's all knowing, the problem with this is that if he is indeed ALL knowing, he'd know which future would take place down the the one, not just several- because then he'd have to guess. All-knowing Gods don't guess. People have used the exact same argument with choices, and the same principle applies. Some people seem to have it in their head that an all knowing God sees the future like Alice Cullen, and it simply can't work when you're omniscient. In the end, this means that the entire universe is simply a big cosmic puppet show.

The idea seems ridiculous, but you can't dismiss it completely. Still, I'm going with free will by process of elimination.

 

[Davi323]

except God's omnipotence doesn't cause our actions, it just means God know what we choose ahead of time. Using Back to the Future II as an example, I think we can all agree that in the original, unaltered timeline, every sporting event that ended up in Greys Sports Almanac is analogous to free will. There was no external influence affecting the outcomes, the results were the results, end of story. Now, lets talk about alternate reality 1985. Biff has the sports almanac, and knows exactly what the outcome of every game will be.

Does that change the results of a single game? Does Biff's knowledge of the events strip away their randomness? No. I will argue it does not. The players of each sport still had to play the games, the coaches still prepared for them and called the plays, the teams still fought hard for the victories. It was still free will for them. Just because Biff knew ahead of time how it would end doesn't change that.

Essentially, I don't buy the argument that pre-knowledge automatically equals causation. Just because God knows what I will choose doesn't mean I am relieved of my responsibility to actually make those choices. The choices I make are my choices, and nobody elses, and remain so, even if God knows what they are. To paraphrase the famous Youtube wrestling guy:

"It's still free will to me, dammit!"

 

[ABMorales787]

Does it matter? Because, unless there's a book that tells me how I will die with all the details that I am capable of getting it, I quite frankly don't care. Free will or predetermined life, I don't know where it's written. So in my consistences I'm in control. But you know what, that's where the big flaw to predestination lies. Maybe you will die some way, but it will never be precise. A car will run over you says destiny. But I'm free to choose how I end up getting run over. Maybe I try fighting it only to realize me fighting destiny leads me into the scenario. Or maybe I don't fight it and just jump in front of one to get it over with. See? I pick.

There's also the infamous tale of Oedipus Rex. Who's fate was that he would kill his father and bed his mother. Funny enough, it had happened already but by his own snooping he found out it was all true. Despite the Greek's of those time and their strong belief in destiny, Oedipus was given the choice to ignore all of that even if it meant his kingdom being poisoned. He challenged his destiny. Had he not, the truth would have never been uncovered and said destiny would never have been unveiled.

In the end, no matter how predetermined life may be, we still have the freedom to at least choose our way there.

 

[Calderownz]

Honestly, I don't believe in karma, determinism, fate or anything along those lines. It seems at times like things work out the way they are supposed to but the fact of the matter is that those moments will always be up to your perspective.

For example... You could really want a particular job. For whatever reason, you didn't get it. Then, you send out all of these other applications simply because you need a job. Then, you get some other job that seems cool and you end up meeting the love of your life.

Seems like fate had something to do with it. But, that's from one perspective. At the end of the day, the first job could still be better and you might have met someone that is even better for you. Or better in different ways. Or you could have simply stayed single and had different experiences.

Does this mean that love doesn't exist? No. Does this mean that you should always be looking for something better? Absolutely not. Does this cheapen anything. Of course not. It simply means that it's all based upon perspective.

Had you gotten that original job, you wouldn't be thinking, "Jeez, I wish I didn't get hired. Maybe I'd have gotten another job and simply met the love of my wife." Because your perspective would be different.

As far as things like karma go, it's simple for me. I just don't think that decisions have much to do with other decisions and actions.

Another example. Let's say that some gang member kills your brother. Your brother was just a decent guy and it makes no sense. Then, a year or so later, you somehow find out that this same gang member was brutally beaten and eventually dies himself. Seems like karma could be responsible. You might even want to believe it was some sort of higher power.

But the fact of the matter is that that gang member was in a gang. So, likely, he was simply putting himself in situations that were going to eventually catch up to him. Sooner or later, he was bound to be killed.

I tend to discover that most people get what they had coming because they are people that simply attract what they put out. A person that cheats on you and gets hurts for the same thing usually takes place because that person attracts the same type of people into their lives.

Just my take.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I believe in both. There is a higher power that has an ultimate plan for us, which consists of several different potential futures. It is up to us as individuals which path we choose to go. Each large decision you make eliminates one of those futures, making it never happen. What you decide to study in school, who you want to have a relationship with, the type of job you seek, are all examples of these decisions. Therefore I believe in both fate and free will because even though there is an ultimate plan set in place for our lives, we have the decision to get there how we choose to.