Mike Shanahan is an idiot

[Minor League Brian]

For the record, with a shit OLine the Redskins have had 12 RB's on the Roster this year and all but 1 of them have averaged at or over 4.0 YPC with James Davis being at something like 3.7, the Vikings game messed his stat line up. We're also averaging 4.3 yards per carry for the entire year, we've just got one of, if not the, lowest attempts in the league.

 

[Slyfox696]

They couldn't have done it with out each other.

So you admit Shanahan was important in both Super Bowl wins. Thanks, that's what I was going for.

That's a low blow Sly, this isn't even the cage.

Haha!

His coaching record is under .500 from 2007 and on, he's been on the decline since 2006, and if the Skins don't manage another win this season it'll be the worst record of his career.

From 2007 on? Three seasons? You're joking, right?

Bragging about wins, are we?

Again, five wins puts Shanahan at a career low.

In his first season with a team that has had only two winning seasons since 2002. And we still have three more games to go.

This season will be his second losing season in the last four years, as well as a nice little 8-8 in 08. His only winning season in the last four seasons (this one included.) came in came in 06 and and they where only 9-7.

That's great. See where they are in three years. If they haven't been successful, then your argument will have merit. But considering this is his first year with the Redskins, your argument is completely without merit.

I'd say "What have you done for me now" does apply to coaches, and if you apply it to Shanahan he hasn't done anything in the last 4 years of coaching, probably why the Bronco's cut him.

No, it doesn't apply to coaches.

I'll give you an example. The Utah Jazz missed the playoffs three years in a row from 2004-2006. Was Jerry Sloan a bad coach then? No, he just needed to have the right parts. Since then, the Jazz have been a playoff team every year.

Your personal bias, whatever it is, seems to be clouding your judgment.

I'm telling you that basing this off the statistics and facts that I have available to me, I can only assume that your not on the coaching staff of the Skins as well.

Very true, but I'm not the one making ignorant claims. You are.

I think anyone would take a professionals opinion over that of an amateur, but I'm pretty sure neither of us are professional football coaches here.

No, but Mike Shanahan is, and you're supporting the idea he's an idiot.

Some of those guys are products of a system, some of them are skilled, and TD was skilled and took advantage of a good running system. Shanahan wasn't out there picking up rushing yards so you still gotta credit the running back as well.

But you also have to credit Shanahan.

A good running system is one tiny part of being a head coach, so he's turned out a few 1000 yard rushers, a couple of those guys did on losing teams, so it means nothing in the end. A thousand yard season with a 7-9 record not much to brag about there.

How about 2000 yards and a Super Bowl title? Is that worth bragging about?

I'd say his recent lack of success and steady downhill drop in production.

I'd bet for other reasons, but it could have been anything. Doesn't make him any less of a good coach.

They did Marty wrong, and I can't blame Norv.

But it wasn't about wins and losses was it?

Well In 09 the Broncos where 8-8 same as they where with Shanahan in 08, and they have the potential to reach 5 wins, maybe even surpass what Shanahan has done this year.

So...what you're saying is the Broncos have done nothing but go downhill since Shanahan left.

Thanks.

This is like the third time you've referenced those five wins, those are some low expectations there Sly.

5 wins by Week 14, is better than 4 wins in an entire season. That's called improvement. The mark of a good coach is improvement.

Good call, got me there; but you're not that either, so it's kinda irrelevant.

But Shanahan is, so while you and I both may be ignorant as to what's going on, Shanahan is not. That has been my point.

Can't argue with you choosing the pro, but I doubt Shanahan can give you an unbiased look at his recent history like I just did.

But he CAN give you far more evidence as why to he thinks Grossman is better for his team than you can do to the contrary.

Which is my point, and has been all along.

 

[justinsayne]

Shanahan is not making this move cause he thinks Rex is the QB of the future for Washington, he's making this move to send the message that McNabb is NOT the QB of future, either that or he's trying to send a message to McNabb in saying "you want to play, then you need to play better"

Shanahan is a good coach, who is taking over a team that has been in the toilet for years, this team is a mess, and this year was the year Shanahan uses to come in and get things set up they way he needs them to be in order to win, this means making hard and questionable decisions, such as the how he's dealt with the whole Haynesworth mess, and now the McNabb (who btw is not as a good of a QB as people seem to want to make him out to be, if he were, then do you really think Philly would've traded him away to another divisional team?)

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Shanarat has done NOTHING worthy of note in his recent years, unless blowing a 4 game lead with 4 games to play counts a noteworthy, which led to his firing with three years left on his contract with a team who he had won 2 superbowls for.

Shanarat took over one of the best defenses in the league in Washington, and has turned them into one of the worse, all while doing nothing to help the offense; but I'm sure his under qualified son as offensive coordinator doesn't have anything to do with Washington's terrible offense.

This is the one part I wholeheartedly agree with. I don't give a shit how much more success teams with 3-4s have; we in Washington didn't have the personnel for it and the consequences are a suspended All Pro and another Pro Bowl caliber player (Andre Carter) who'll most surely be taking his ball somewhere else come this off-season (I won't be surprised if Orakpo's traded either). Blache should've been kept on like Jon Gruden did with Monte Kiffin.

 

[The Crock]

Sly dropped a Utah Jazz reference... <3

 

[Minor League Brian]

This is the one part I wholeheartedly agree with. I don't give a shit how much more success teams with 3-4s have; we in Washington didn't have the personnel for it and the consequences are a suspended All Pro and another Pro Bowl caliber player (Andre Carter) who'll most surely be taking his ball somewhere else come this off-season (I won't be surprised if Orakpo's traded either). Blache should've been kept on like Jon Gruden did with Monte Kiffin.

If you're a Redskin fan you'd know Blache was the WORST D Coordinator and our defense was a paper tiger. It was absolutely terrible. This years D, much like the Patriots, when its on it is on. But it doesn't always how up.

Albert also COMPLAINED about the 43 and Andre Carter was a fringe pro-bowler last year, he's an older commodity who wouldn't be around for long. Instead of those two Laron Landry absolutely blew up and Brian Orakpo is in his natural position. We're building around our young talent.

Again, I love people who seem to think they know the Redskins.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

I miss Shanahan....

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

If you're a Redskin fan you'd know Blache was the WORST D Coordinator and our defense was a paper tiger. It was absolutely terrible. This years D, much like the Patriots, when its on it is on. But it doesn't always how up.

Albert also COMPLAINED about the 43 and Andre Carter was a fringe pro-bowler last year, he's an older commodity who wouldn't be around for long. Instead of those two Laron Landry absolutely blew up and Brian Orakpo is in his natural position. We're building around our young talent.

Again, I love people who seem to think they know the Redskins.

What the fuck do you mean "think" I know what I'm talking about? Blache kept the Redskins defense in the top 10 even after Snyder fired one of the greatest defensive minds in the game. Albert complaining about the 4-3? Are you deaf? Have you not heard the amount of bitching he's done since then? Haynesworth's always been a complainer and always will be. Finally, Orakpo back in his natural position?! It's a miracle that he's on track to match his stats from last year. Being an OLB in a 3-4 scheme is nowhere near the same as being a defensive end in a 4-3 scheme (the position Orakpo originally played). Orakpo needs another competent pass rusher in Washington to be as great as all Washingtonians know he can be (the chances of that happening are slim to none).

So, you're essentially praising a defense because one of its defensive backs is having one of the best seasons in the league (oh, let's not forget that he's been injured for a few games as well)? Landry's great, but I'll gladly forgo him for a competent rush defense and a defensive line that isn't abominable. Washington's defense is absolute shit, and it's going to take more than a few personnel changes to make it half-decent again. While I wouldn't complain about this normally, this only compounds Washington's problems as it still has to worry about one of the worst offensive lines in the league and a new receiver, runningback, and (possibly) quarterback.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

But he CAN give you far more evidence as why to he thinks Grossman is better for his team than you can do to the contrary.

Which is my point, and has been all along.

Well, if your point all along was that Shanahan is a Pro football coach and is in a better position to make the call I guess I have to conceded that point to you Sly; but I did bold the part where you said "He thinks" because it's still a matter of his opinion, and it seems in the last 5 years (4 of those years he was coaching) he has multiple losing season, an under 500 record and NO playoff success. Which is why even though Shanahan is a professional the statistics show that just because "He thinks" it, doesn't make him right.

So yeah, Shanahan is a pro coach, and is in a better position to make decisions involving the Washington Redskins than I am; but that still doesn't make his opinion correct.

Shanahan is not making this move cause he thinks Rex is the QB of the future for Washington, he's making this move to send the message that McNabb is NOT the QB of future, either that or he's trying to send a message to McNabb in saying "you want to play, then you need to play better"

Shanahan may be making the calls on the field, but this team is still run by Daniel Snyder.

Shanahan benches McNabb, Snyder Extends his contract....

Seems like a bit of a power struggle to me, if the coach and the front office aren't on the same page is doesn't matter how much talent is on the team.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

2-5 26 yards and a pick, as well as being down 10-0 in the first, and he was just sacked for a loss of ten.

That Rex Grossman really is something special!

 

[justinsayne]

Rex Grossmans stats as of 4:46 of the 4th qtr.

22/35, 283 yds., 4 TDs, 1 INT

so yeah who's the idiot again?

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Rex Grossmans stats as of 4:46 of the 4th qtr.

22/35, 283 yds., 4 TDs, 1 INT

so yeah who's the idiot again?

You are, if you think Grossman is any good for putting up numbers against a team with a worse record than the pathetic Redskins. He was also going against soft coverage because of the early whomping Dallas put on Washington, he better be able to put up numbers against such soft coverage.

It's all about wins, and Rex just put them in a position to lose by taking those two huge sacks.

 

[X]

And Bill Belichick has 0 Super Bowl rings without Tom Brady. What's your point?

Well actually Belichick was the defensive coordinator for the G-Men in the 80s and has won two Super Bowls without Brady. Not as head coach, but his defensive coaching had alot to do with their Super Bowl wins.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

What a surprise, Grossman has a chance at the end of the game to drive down the field and at the very least get his team into field goal range to tie the game, and what does he do???

INTERCEPTION!!!

CLASSIC GROSSMAN, CLASSIC.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

McNabb has done plenty of that during the season.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Grossman has done plenty of that throughout his ENTIRE CAREER, and has done it in 100% of the games he's started this season.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

SSC, why are you bitching?

Look, when everything comes down to it - McNabb has had the better career, but has flat-out sucked this year. Washington is out of the Playoff picture and as such, the HC decided it was time to see if Grossman (in this offense) should stay or be put out on his ass in the Off-season.

In the end, Grossman (INT ending drive to end the game or not) did better than McNabb has over the course of the month.

Grossman had over 320 yds, 4 TDs and 2 INTs (one, as you said - to end the game)

In the previous 3 games McNabb has played (against MN, NYG, TB) he's thrown 4 TDs and 3 INTs. He's also fumbled 4 times, losing one of them.

When you put those two things together, Grossman has done more to GIVE his team a chance to win - than McNabb has in a month worth of games. (Also, botched XP tries or not - when you have to rely on that sorta thing, you need to be questioning your Defense as well as your Offense)

Grossman will likely NOT be the starter for next year's team. But honestly, McNabb is apparently not any better, so the real question is once again..

Why are you bitching at who's starting? Neither guy has done a good enough job to win the games in recent weeks, but at least Grossman produced more TDs than McNabb, 3 games to 1.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

In the end, winning is all that matters, and McNabb has beat the Cowboys 12 times in his career.

Everyone knows Groosman is nothing but a backup, it's interceptions like that one that have cost him his job many times as a starting QB.

McNabb gives you the better chance to win now imo, and if there seriously considering Grossman as a future starter, well, sorry Washington.

He also picked up tons of yards in soft coverage because of the early blowout score, in the end he lost the game and his stats are meaningless.

 

[Big Sexy]

Grossman did jack shit in the game until the Cowboys defense started playing soft coverage. The Cowboys also have one of the worst secondaries in the league to begin with. Grossman has had numerous chances throughout his career to prove he can be a starter and he has failed every time. He just isn't an NFL starting qb.

McNabb is having by far the worst season of his career and it is still better then the best season Grossman has ever had. Shouldn't that tell you something? Anyone who thinks Grossman is better then McNabb right now is fucked in the head. Shanahan does not want McNabb as the quarterback for this team. That is the ONLY reason he has been benched.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

In the end, winning is all that matters, and McNabb has beat the Cowboys 12 times in his career.

Everyone knows Groosman is nothing but a backup, it's interceptions like that one that have cost him his job many times as a starting QB.

McNabb gives you the better chance to win now imo, and if there seriously considering Grossman as a future starter, well, sorry Washington.

He also picked up tons of yards in soft coverage because of the early blowout score, in the end he lost the game and his stats are meaningless.

But you're looking at McNabb's record against the Cowboys with a different team, a different staff, and most importantly - a different group of teammates. (Defense included)

No offense, but all winning does at this point for teams like Washington, is continue to hurt them worse. Any true fan wants a victory for their team, and speaking from a standpoint on that - I'm happy my team won today; but had it of hurt their chances of losing that top Draft pick all to pick up a meaningless victory that won't better our season.. no, just no.

So with that said, why not start someone else and SEE what you could have.

Drew Brees sucked in San Diego, but has won a Superbowl with New Orleans. Brett Favre won a Superbowl with Green Bay, but hasn't gotten either of the other two teams he's been with to a Superbowl. The point is - regardless of what you've done with one team, shouldn't be your defining underline for what you're doing now.

And, now, McNabb was failing to win Washington games and he wasn't really giving them opportunities, either.

You're saying Grossman's stats are meaningless, because it was in a losing effort against a Defense that apparently wasn't trying. Well, McNabb's past with an alternative team is also (then) meaningless, because it isn't the same group around him that's helping support him in another potential victory.

Grossman at least lead a comeback against Dallas. Falling just shy of it or not, he still lead them. Relaxed coverage or not, he still found openings that McNabb may not have. It's a never know situation.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Grossman did jack shit in the game until the Cowboys defense started playing soft coverage. The Cowboys also have one of the worst secondaries in the league to begin with. Grossman has had numerous chances throughout his career to prove he can be a starter and he has failed every time. He just isn't an NFL starting qb.

So if Grossman failed to do good against the soft coverage, he would be criticized and you're criticizing him for doing good against it?

McNabb is having by far the worst season of his career and it is still better then the best season Grossman has ever had. Shouldn't that tell you something? Anyone who thinks Grossman is better then McNabb right now is fucked in the head. Shanahan does not want McNabb as the quarterback for this team. That is the ONLY reason he has been benched.

McNabb: 12 TD, 15 INT, 3149 yds, 75.2 passer rating
Grossman: 23 TD, 20 INT, 3193 yds, 73.9 passer rating

Grossman threw 5 more INT but who is to say McNabb would have thrown more if was allowed to finish out the season.

Still want to debate that McNabb's year has been better than Grossman's?

 

[justinsayne]

technically Favre has been with 3 other teams besides GB

and Rex did throw 4 TDs, soft coverage or not those 4 TDs did give Washington a chance to win, and it's obvious this move was made to send a message, I've said that over and over, McNabbs best days are behind him, Shanahan knows thi sand doesn't want him on his team, he wants HIS QB, if Snyder was smart he'd stop treating this franchise like a fantasy football team and work with the coach, giving him what HE needs to win

 

[TheOneBigWill]

McNabb is having by far the worst season of his career and it is still better then the best season Grossman has ever had.

Really? Because I've seen Grossman reach a Superbowl with his Bears. And his overall stats were..

3,193 yds, 23 TDs, 20 INTs.

I'd say that's better than McNabb's so-called "worst season" in which he's thrown more picks than TDs, thus far, by 1.

I'm not going to argue the point of McNabb being a better QB, and a starter to Grossman's life-long Back-up role. I agree completely.

However, again, you said it yourself. McNabb has been having his worst season thus far.. so why continue killing yourself and not do what other teams have and turn to your back-up to simply see what can happen - based on what you have seen happen thus far with the original starter?

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

But you're looking at McNabb's record against the Cowboys with a different team, a different staff, and most importantly - a different group of teammates. (Defense included)

I'm also taking McNabbs previous knowledge of the Cowboys, over Shanahan, who's coached in the AFC for almost his entire career, where as McNabb has faced the Cowboys twice a year, every year, for the last ten plus years.

No offense, but all winning does at this point for teams like Washington, is continue to hurt them worse. Any true fan wants a victory for their team, and speaking from a standpoint on that - I'm happy my team won today; but had it of hurt their chances of losing that top Draft pick all to pick up a meaningless victory that won't better our season.. no, just no.

As a fan of two of the worst franchises ever(Padres, Chargers), I ALWAYS want to see a win. You get payed to win, not to throw games and get a lower draft pick

So with that said, why not start someone else and SEE what you could have.

I'm all for starting the guy with no playing experience, but the Skins choose Grossman over that guy.

Drew Brees sucked in San Diego,

Drew brees 2004 27 touchdowns, 7 interceptions, qb rating over 100.

Drew Brees 2005 24 touchdowns 14 interceptions, qb rating low 90s

Drew Brees certainly didn't suck in San Diego.

And, now, McNabb was failing to win Washington games and he wasn't really giving them opportunities, either.

You can't blame McNabb for ALL of Washington's offensive problems.

You're saying Grossman's stats are meaningless, because it was in a losing effort against a Defense that apparently wasn't trying. Well, McNabb's past with an alternative team is also (then) meaningless, because it isn't the same group around him that's helping support him in another potential victory.

No, what I was saying is that he grossman picked up garbage yards against soft coverage and lived up to his past by losing the game by taking big sacks and throwing costly interceptions.

Grossman lived up to his past. There's a good chance McNabb would have lived up to his past and beat the Cowboys.

Grossman at least lead a comeback against Dallas. Falling just shy of it or not, he still lead them. Relaxed coverage or not, he still found openings that McNabb may not have. It's a never know situation.

He led them against a team with a worst record than the skins, and that's saying something. He did it against a bad team, soft coverage and all. Grossman has been an interception machine throughout his career, and he added two more to his resume today.

 

[Big Sexy]

So if Grossman failed to do good against the soft coverage, he would be criticized and you're criticizing him for doing good against it?

I'm not criticizing him, I'm saying that what he did wasn't overly impressive. Let's also not forget he turned the ball over 3 times, including an interception at the end to completely end their chances.

McNabb: 12 TD, 15 INT, 3149 yds, 75.2 passer rating
Grossman: 23 TD, 20 INT, 3193 yds, 73.9 passer rating

Grossman threw 5 more INT but who is to say McNabb would have thrown more if was allowed to finish out the season.

Still want to debate that McNabb's year has been better than Grossman's?

Yes, because first of all you don't even have McNabb's stats right. His are:
14 tds, 15 picks, 3,377 yards, and a 77.1 qb rating. Grossman had a worse completion percentage his season as well and had less yards with more attempts.