Merry Christmas from LSN

[FitFinlay4Life]

I've been meaning to ask you, LSN...


How many roads must a man walk down,
before you call him a man?
How many seas must a white dove fly,
before she sleeps in the sand?
And how many times must a cannon ball fly,
before they're forever banned?

One for you, Sal... Did you ever slow that Mustang down?

 

[Mustang Sally]

One for you, Sal... Did you ever slow that Mustang down?

No, but someone put sugar in my carburetor.

Bummer

 

[Harthan]

I took quantum mechanics in college, and it was a waste of time, for me. Of course, part of that has to do with the fact I got a B- in the course. Anyways, the size and shape of atoms and molecules determine the way they behave, so wouldn't that seem to imply that it would allow for free will?

Further, 99% of the human body is made up of atoms and molecules, if my memory serves me correct. The other 1% is made up of trace elements. Is it possible that those virtually undetectable trace elements give us the free will we use on a daily basis?

Granted, my philosophy skills are rusty, but I wanted to provide a better answer then "Because God made us with the capacity for free will". I hope you enjoyed the holidays, even though I know you're not the biggest fan of Christmas.

But those interactions are triggered by the size, shape, and movement of those molecules, which is different in each person. Couldn't these differences explain, in a very rudimentary way, how free will is triggered?

Size, shape, and movement may and do differ (the former two not a lot, though some deformation occurs with reactions and interesting energy configurations, the latter's the more interesting one) but they do so in predictable and non-deterministic ways. Of course when I say predictable I don't mean that we really can predict everything the brain is doing and going to do right now, it's madly complicated, but we can predict simple systems and there's no theoretical or experimental boundary to us predicting the brain itself, just a matter of working out the problem. Unfortunately on the trace elements front, I'm afraid you may have some definitions mixed up. All matter is made of atoms, which bond to make molecules. So we find ourselves again with a non deterministic, predictable human that leaves free will well out of our hands.

Alas.

I did enjoy the holidays, thanks. Hope you did as well.

I don't meant to hijack your thread with this topic, by the way, sorry if I've done that, it's just an interesting question to hash out with people.

 

[LSN80]

Size, shape, and movement may and do differ (the former two not a lot, though some deformation occurs with reactions and interesting energy configurations, the latter's the more interesting one) but they do so in predictable and non-deterministic ways. Of course when I say predictable I don't mean that we really can predict everything the brain is doing and going to do right now, it's madly complicated, but we can predict simple systems and there's no theoretical or experimental boundary to us predicting the brain itself, just a matter of working out the problem. Unfortunately on the trace elements front, I'm afraid you may have some definitions mixed up. All matter is made of atoms, which bond to make molecules. So we find ourselves again with a non deterministic, predictable human that leaves free will well out of our hands.

Alas.

I did enjoy the holidays, thanks. Hope you did as well.

I don't meant to hijack your thread with this topic, by the way, sorry if I've done that, it's just an interesting question to hash out with people.

You didn't hijack the thread at all, I enjoy such discussions. I'm afraid the words "check" and "mate" come to mind when discussing this subject, however, as you know infinitely more about it then I ever will. And thank you for pointing out my misunderstanding of trace elements, because it was the rationale my professor in college used, albeit ten years ago.

So do you not believe in free will based upon this? And to further that, hown do you define "free will"? I want to be sure our definitions are reasonably the same.

Holiday was great. I'm glad to hear yours was as well.

 

[Harthan]

You didn't hijack the thread at all, I enjoy such discussions. I'm afraid the words "check" and "mate" come to mind when discussing this subject, however, as you know infinitely more about it then I ever will. And thank you for pointing out my misunderstanding of trace elements, because it was the rationale my professor in college used, albeit ten years ago.

So do you not believe in free will based upon this? And to further that, hown do you define "free will"? I want to be sure our definitions are reasonably the same.

Holiday was great. I'm glad to hear yours was as well.

Free will, I suppose, would be an entity that was capable of making deterministic choices through nothing but its own will. Unfortunately, the chemistry of the human body as I know it doesn't provide for this.

I feel as if I have free will. I could choose to stand up right now, or I could choose to continue sitting. I feel as if I have that choice. What lurks in the back of my mind is that whatever choice I made had already been decided by the chemistry of my body at that instant, without any input from "me". That is to say, it would be impossible for me to make any decision other than the one I made, so I have no more than the illusion that I made a choice. It's a very difficult thing to come to grips with.

Still. The illusion is pleasant, and it's all I've got. Nothing left to do but enjoy the ride.