**MERGED** General Punk/Heyman Thread (Keep it all in here.)

[Shining Mizard]

With Punk's recent heel turn demanding respect he has opened a whole new perspective area to his character which many people have been hoping would happen for months now. As the Autumn/Fall months come closer I'm curious as to how the CM Punk character will stay fresh and avoid becoming repetitve.

It had crossed my mind ever since Brock Lesnar's Tout claiming that he was "done" with the WWE that it kind of leaves Paul Heyman with nothing to do. I think a really good way to keep CM Punk's character relevant is by teaming him up with Heyman which I know has been discussed quite a few times already.

Night of Champions is in John Cena's hometown and will have a similar reaction to what Punk did last year at Money in the Bank. Imagine the heat Punk would receive beating Cena in his hometown due to Heyman's interference and the two clearly pairing up.

This is just an idea that I had for Punk's character to take in the next coming months and I'm curious as to what everyone else's thoughts are. Would this be effective for both Punk and Heyman, or Should this storyline go in a different direction?

Please discuss.

 

[JabroniBeater81]

The thing about that is that Boston has been notorious for booing Cena as much as any other city. It's worse because it's his backyard. But yeah, very good point and idea about Lesnar's void creating that opportunity for Heyman to team with Punk. He could slowly convince Punk that he owes the WWE Universe nothing. Punk is still attached to the crowd, that would be the one push in the heel direction he needs

 

[ThePhenomLives]

Well Punk obviously needs something more to his character than just being the "typical heel". I think pairing him with Heyman would be a smart move. He knows how to draw heat and they have their history. As for NoC, something tells me Cena's gonna win and thereby keep all the little kids happy!

 

[rge2010]

Punk and Heyman working together would elevate Punk to new levels. Nobody draws heat like Paul Heyman. All he has to do is stand in the ring with his repulsive hair and repulsive face. Heat will simply be drawn by association.

The big question is does Punk need him? If WWE want Punk to draw nuclear heat then yes. If they don't, then Punk hardly needs a mouthpiece does he. I kinda like the Punk character at the moment, he is muddying the waters each week. Last week he acted like a face, all smiles, playing up to the crowd, the handshake gesture with Cena....this week he attacked Lawler from behind with a kick.

 

[Fansince1992]

Don't think Heyman is staying around now Lesnar is leaving again. Even if he was Punk doesn't need a manager. Heyman is mainly a talker, it would be a waste of Mic Talent pairing them together.

If Heyman for some reason was going to be around i would have him manage an up and coming heel to fully utilize his skill on the stick.

 

[Nada]

I dont think its fresh at all, his straight edge heel persona was at least unique, he came off as creepy, insane and as a cult leader. It was certantly unique

Now he seems like another Chris Jericho impersonator, talking slowly, repeating the same inane "BEST.IN.DA.WORLD" and talking about respect. Soon enough he will trash the crowd for being simpletons.

 

[Unknown]

Punks character is still not a heel yet. Hes in the process of a big heel turn, but hes still a face. The only way punks going to become a full heel is if he tells the WWE
UNIVERSE that he doesnt need them and he doesnt like them, because theres alot of cm punk fans out there and the only way he can stop fans from cheering him is if he says he doesnt need them or doesnt like them. But I love the idea of heyman and punk together because they would be interesting and fun to watch. But i think heyman should go with someone who cant cut a promo and who isnt good on the mic like he did for brock lesnar. Cm Punk is to good on the mic to have heyman talk for him...

 

[midgensa]

As has been stated ... he has not gone full heel yet ... and I am debating whether or not creative is actually going to push in that direction.

I think they are fully moving him to the role of the "anti-Cena" but they don't want him to go full heel.

There definitely is no need for Heyman to get involved because it is clear hat Punk does not need anybody to speak for him. So, that will likely not happen.

To me, it appears that the WWE brass has fallen in love with the split-Cena crowds and they think they can create a loud and strong split-Punk crowd. This seems to be where they are going with it and it should create some strong promos and moments in the next month or two while these two feud.

 

[JoeMallard]

Brock Lesner isn't really "gone", its all apart of his storyline. He still has a few dates left. CM Punk doesnt really need Paul Heyman, but he would draw Punk more heat.

 

[justin71]

Punk needs to keep a small eliment of being a face so he can do for the WWE what he does best and that's push merchandise. A full on heel persona does not cut it, but if the E is hellbent on keeping Cena as #1 inspite of the fact that it's short sighted to do that it's what they will do. I see this as Cena is Hulk Hogan and Punk is Randy Savage even when Savage had his first title run he still took a backseat to Hogan...

 

[RawIsJericho]

With Punk's recent heel turn demanding respect he has opened a whole new perspective area to his character which many people have been hoping would happen for months now. As the Autumn/Fall months come closer I'm curious as to how the CM Punk character will stay fresh and avoid becoming repetitve.

It had crossed my mind ever since Brock Lesnar's Tout claiming that he was "done" with the WWE that it kind of leaves Paul Heyman with nothing to do. I think a really good way to keep CM Punk's character relevant is by teaming him up with Heyman which I know has been discussed quite a few times already.

Night of Champions is in John Cena's hometown and will have a similar reaction to what Punk did last year at Money in the Bank. Imagine the heat Punk would receive beating Cena in his hometown due to Heyman's interference and the two clearly pairing up.

This is just an idea that I had for Punk's character to take in the next coming months and I'm curious as to what everyone else's thoughts are. Would this be effective for both Punk and Heyman, or Should this storyline go in a different direction?

Please discuss.

This won't be the case though. They don't get behind Cena anywhere near like Chicago gets behind Punk. In all likelihood Cena's fanbase won't even be louder than Punk's at the event.

 

[HBsam31]

Punk and Heyman working together would elevate Punk to new levels. Nobody draws heat like Paul Heyman. All he has to do is stand in the ring with his repulsive hair and repulsive face. Heat will simply be drawn by association.

The big question is does Punk need him? If WWE want Punk to draw nuclear heat then yes. If they don't, then Punk hardly needs a mouthpiece does he. I kinda like the Punk character at the moment, he is muddying the waters each week. Last week he acted like a face, all smiles, playing up to the crowd, the handshake gesture with Cena....this week he attacked Lawler from behind with a kick.

Man your description of Paul Heyman is seriously the funniest thing I have ever read here, and it is totally true. What I like about Heyman is he puts more emotion in saying Brock Lesner that most put into their whole promos. If they want Punk to be heel, Heyman is the way to go for Punk. I also like Punk's character now where he is going a different way each with.

 

[enviousdominous]

Heel isn't something they can just force on us, they learned that with Stone Cold. If you've been watching Punk's matches, especially against Daniel Bryan, you'd see that he's always mixing unique spots with the usual moves. I think the fact that he doesn't say "pipe bomb" anymore shows that he can tell when an act is getting redundant.

The problem with pushing Punk to behave like a heel is that they're pitting him against forces that a great many people hate. Punk being a jerk isn't going to make Cena interesting, and I've always hated Jerry Lawler for that matter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my memory serves me hasn't Cena been booed in his home town? I highly doubt a Heyman Punk alliance would earn heat for them, likely the roof would blow off from all the positive cheers.

 

[rge2010]

Man your description of Paul Heyman is seriously the funniest thing I have ever read here, and it is totally true. What I like about Heyman is he puts more emotion in saying Brock Lesner that most put into their whole promos. If they want Punk to be heel, Heyman is the way to go for Punk. I also like Punk's character now where he is going a different way each with.

Thanks! It is true. Nobody likes to see a short, fat, balding man with a ponytail look pleased with himself! Paul Heyman is a great antagonist, one of the best and up there with Vince - and while he is great on the mic, he is certainly aided by his hideous looks. Lots of love for Paul E from me though!

And for the those saying its a bad idea - While I agree Punk doesnt need Heyman, it never harmed Triple H alligning himself with Vince all them years ago did it?

 

[CobraStarship]

Hey everyone. I just wanted to bring up a topic that i can't seem to find through the message boards yet, but i want to start a discussion on a topic that i would love to work out for the WWE... i'm not exactly sure they'd go down this route straight away but here it goes.

WWE is clearly trying everything in their power to turn Punk full heel... Crowd just cheer too much for him to be a "true" heel (i.e old school Vader or Vickie Guerrero heat type heel)... the Chicago crowd this monday will no doubt make him the biggest face in the company lol, but coming up to Night of Champions, i feel that Cena will get his hometown hero/baby face cheers and Punk might not go to well with that crowd... and WWE may actually have one shot of turning Punk full heel with full heat....

How? simple... and i quote CM Punk from Pipebomb #1 "i'm a Paul Heyman guy" and i also quote CM Punk from an interview i heard on Gamespot.com.au yesterday that really got me thinking "if i was to be inducted into the hall of fame it'd be with either Cabana for the humour or Heyman for the serious"

Can Paul Heyman be the man to bring out the best heat out of CM Punk? i personally believe right now yes! Paul Heyman has the heat from the Brock/Hunter rivalry... and help CM Punk go from Main Event to a future Hall of Famer... just like Flair did for HHH...

How could you start this? This is my scenario running in my head all week, whether its plausible or not is up to you guys to discuss with me however; here it goes.

Night of Champions: Boston, MA. CM Punk retains over John Cena by DQ after interference from Heyman & Lesnar, Heyman uses Lesnar to destroy Cena and help Punk retain

between Night of Champions & Survivor Series they could push for Team Cena v Team Heyman? Cena could even spend weeks trying to push HHH into teaming with him. Could be Punk, Lesnar, Big Show, Bryan & Tensai (god hope not lol) vs Cena, HHH, Kane, Kofi & Truth (i don't know just adding others in lol) with Michaels in the corner. Brock has two wrestling dates left if i'm not mistaken (Survivor & Mania?)

But in all having CM Punk align himself as a "Paul Heyman" guy and use him to destroy the baby face Cena... even assist Heyman with any Brock angle like i just mentioned... could solidify CM Punk as a big time player for his last 10 years (as mentioned in interview with Gamespot.com.au he doesn't plan to be wrestling in 10 years; he promised himself he wouldn't go to that age where it's embarrassing and you can't even move)

CM Punk has held WWE Championship for almost a full year, World Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental Championship, World Tag Team Championship, ECW Championship, 2x Money in the Bank Wins, a Elimination Chamber Title Defence, has been leader of two stables both New Nexus and Straight Edge Society, has been a successful heel and was a very successful baby face through the ECW day, and is a VERY successful tweener. His indy career is like non-other - a title reign in every indy league he has been in from ROH, PWG, IWA whatever it was... worked with guys like Raven, Foley, Steamboat on screen in the Indys.. matches with other talents like Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson (yes!), Christopher Daniels, the current TNA champion Austin Aries, Nigel McGuiness, Homicide and so many others were legendary in his ROH days. He has already got a borderline Hall-of-Fame career...

So what do you guys think? is it inevitable that we see Heyman with Punk?
What does it do for Punk's career?
Can the use of Heyman and/or Lesnar help CM Punk finally get a proper black hat??
Can Heyman push Punk into a HOF defining career?

DISCUSS...

 

[shrimc]

Punk already has a HOF career in my opinion if you have multiple world title reigns or one long one. A spot in the HOF should be gauranteed as long as you don't pull a Benoit or similar horrible act. By holding a world title in the WWE it shows the WWE believes you could carry a show and sell a ppv. That being said Punk and Heyman together would be great. Punk and Heyman on the mic with Cena and HHH would be some of the greatest promos ever. Also Punk would get booed almost guaranteed, however CM Punk is super over so he might just end up getting Heyman cheered. All in all though I like the idea of CM Punk, Lesnar, Big Show (he has history with Heyman), Sandow, and Brian vs John Cena, HHH, Zack Ryder, Kane, and Sheamus. I imagine it coming down to Brock and Punk vs HHH and Cena, then Punk gets double teamed with a pedigree then the STF and passes out leading to Brock vs HHH and Cena. Then finally Brock vs Cena, Brock destroys Cena completely hits multiple F5s, locks in a few kimuras, and even sneaks in a chain shot or two. All hope is gone for Cena he is unconscious in the ring, Heyman tells Brock to lock in the kimura Brock taunts a bit, the lights go black the gong is heard Brock is unconscious in the middle of the ring, Cena crawls for the cover and gets the win. Setting up Taker vs Brock and Cena vs CM Punk with an I didn't tap angle.

 

[IT Factor]

If we are strictly talking about need, Punk doesn't need Heyman as a manager type. CM Punk is quite possibly the best mic talker current in the WWE. He's the best all-around performer in WWE and having him involved with Heyman would be an interesting dynamic, especially if we consider the Brock Lesnar implications. They could form an unstoppable alliance if Heyman joined Punk with Lesnar being the heavy muscle bodyguard who beats respect into Punk's opponents. That would be awesome to see, especially with all the possibilities with different opponents for future matches with Lesnar/Punk. The Rock, Stone Cold[later on], The Undertaker[if he can wrestle], and the list goes on and on. Imagine a series of matches in which CM Punk wants to set up a match with Stone Cold, but says Austin has to beat his bodyguard Lesnar[in a match] to earn the right. You'd then have not only one but two great return matches for Austin that would make for entertaining television and probably get alot of attention for WWE if done right. WWE always goes all out for CM Punk, but this idea would be genius for them to do.

 

[TheCrusher]

I started out thinking that Punk doesn't need Heyman due to Punk's great mic skills. But after reading some of the ideas and arguments, I am starting to edge that way. But not because it will get crowds to turn against Punk. Heyman together with Punk might actually rally that vocal part of the crowd that is already drawn to Punk. (Admittedly, they're pretty well rallied to begin with.) But the two of them together remind a lot of longtime fans that there was a world in which the WWE was less dominant than today. The two of them have also become pretty adept at being edgy without crossing over the PG line. Meanwhile, kids and newer fans will react so negatively to Heyman that their reactions might become even more enthusiastically pro-babyface.

I don't think that it will swing crowds completely over to the babyface side. I think it would actually increase the energy level of the split crowd. If that's what the WWE wants to do. Sometimes I think that while they recognize the potential in the split crowd they see the hazards as well. The split crowd mentality kind of encourages fans to make up their own minds about whom they like, and that means they become harder and harder to book for.

 

[J.J.]

I dont really care to see Heyman with another WWE superstar until Lesnar's contract is up. It makes no sense to me to pair Heyman with another star right now. CM Punk doesn't need him, Punk holds his own on the mic and has done fine drawing heat since his heel turn.

 

[shrimc]

Punk and Heyman are officially team I can't wait for RAW next week. I wonder if anyone else will be revealed a "Paul Heyman guy." Heyman, Punk and Cena in promos will be great. What would be even better though is Heyman, Punk and The Rock during RR build up.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

Creative really seems to do an excellent job at making big reveals when they go the non-speaking scene route. Heyman's reveal was just him looking out the driver seat window yet there was something very eerie about the way he peered at Cena as he lay unconscious. They did the same with other reveals: Triple H/Undertaker in 2011 coming out to the arena, not saying a word, looking at the Wrestlemania sign, the Kane Re-Masked Resurrection at the end of RAW, and Jericho returning to the WWE this year. Non-speaking segments really seem to be their forte when it comes to reveals.

I'm glad that all of those naysayers are now silenced now that it's been shown that there will be a CM Punk/Heyman association. This is why you should just stick with "I don't think that this will happen but _______" and "I don't see that happening" rather than out right saying "It will never happen" or "Heyman's gonna leave". If you don't know for sure, its best to acknowledge that. Otherwise when someone proves you wrong you have to sit quiet, looking all pissy.

I'm excited to see what type of verbal sparring may come from from Punk's and Heyman's partnership. Many have pointed out that Punk doesn't need a mouthpiece but that's why I think that this unnecessary upgrade will only serve to enhance his reign.

 

[Ashw825]

In my spare time recently I have been going through all of my Wrestling DVD's. The feeling I get when watching events like Wrestlemania 17 and Money In The Bank 2011 is why I am a wrestling fan. I remember everyone getting excited around the Money In The Bank period on how the "Reality Era" was coming and suddenly comparisons to the Attitude Era started. The "Reality Era" didn't last long but I was enjoying Wrestling a lot from the build to Money In The Bank until around Over The Limit 2012. Ever since then the excitement I have for Monday Night RAW has significantly died down. I wasn't excited heading into No Way Out, I wasn't excited heading into Money in The Bank half as much as I was the previous year and I can say the same for Summerslam. Now I would consider myself a die hard wrestling fan but to me, I do not enjoy WWE television as much as I used to. I am normally one to always give the WWE the benefit of the doubt. Now the questions I am asking are what do you think the product is missing at the moment and what could it improve on?
Do you think that the 3 hour RAW format is the reason that the programming is less exciting? Is less truly more?
Do you think that the new CM Punk & Paul Heyman storyline is the begining of a more exciting and compelling WWE?

 

[bittermang]

Do you think that the 3 hour RAW format is the reason that the programming is less exciting? Is less truly more?

I think you're projecting. Except for the rampant inconsistency and continual dropping of storylines, I've really been enjoying the WWE product, especially in the ring.

I really don't understand all the doom and gloom and pining for a by-gone "Era". That was fun then, and today's product can be fun now if you allow yourself to be entertained by it.

 

[Ashw825]

I enjoy the WWE product today. If I didn't I wouldn't be on here. I just can't help but feel that I am less excited than I was before. Believe me, I am always one to compliment the WWE. It just seems recently my excitement going into a RAW is less than it was heading into events such as Wrestlemania 28 or money In The Bank of last year.

 

[Ryberg]

Do you think that the 3 hour RAW format is the reason that the programming is less exciting? Is less truly more?

No it has nothing to do with three hours. You cut cut it to an hour and it would still be less exciting. The reason the product is less exciting is due to the rehashing story-lines with certain wrestlers and the boring predictable matches that occur every week. I mean I know every week Cena's going to get beat for 95% of the match then come back and either be Super Cena or lose but not cleanly.

How many times are we going to have to deal with the lame Kane/DB story line? Wow here comes Ryback taking on 5 local jobbers, Hmmm what's going to happen there? Oh look Lawler's getting a beat down by another heel.

So far the only interesting story to come out is Punk/Heyman. I was against this one from the start because Punk doesn't need Heyman and vice versa. But I am open to the idea it might pay off in the end.