**Merged** All Cody Rhodes and His IC Title Discussion

[Machianzo]

Cody using the Alabama Slam as a regular move is something that I just absolutely love about him. I love that subtle little throwback. It's such a classy attention to detail, I smile every time I see it. I think it really speaks to how much Cody pays attention to his character and his development. Using it as a regular move every now and then is great for me, I don't want it to be his finisher. Maybe he could stand to get a better finisher, I'll give you that, the Cross Rhodes isn't fantastic, but I don't think the Slam is the answer. I like it where it is now, as a subtle move that works into his regular moveset.

A lot of my thoughts exactly. (I'd have repped you but I have to spread some around first.) Cody using the slam is an amazing throwback, much like how he sometimes does the laying down punch that Goldust used to perform, but I don't think it should be his finisher. It does look good as something that'd set up for a finisher though.

I disagree on the Cross Rhodes though, I enjoy it as a finisher, and the way he usually sets it up with the beautiful disaster kick really works for me. The swift blow to the skull then the violent rotation of the Cross Rhodes, to me, looks amazing.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

Its a powerful move, and maybe he uses it as a tribute to Hardcore Holly. He did work with him for quite some time, and probably traveled with him extensively during their time as a tag team. I believe Rhodes used it as his finisher for a while after Holly was released. It seems as if its just a move in his arsenal, and a very powerful move at that. Similar to Beautiful Disaster, which he also uses in almost every match, and sometimes its used as his finisher, but Cross Roads is his true finisher

 

[keehlnate]

I don't see how he should use the alabama slam as his finisher in exchange on his own. He got his Cross Rhodes and he should stick with that. Alabama slam is used as his regular move (even on video games) so he doesn't need to remove it either.

 

[TJ Matics]

He used it as a signature, so it'll be hard to transition to a finisher. You also have to remember Cody isn't the biggest guy in the world, I certainly won't buy him beating the likes of Randy O or Sheamus with that move. The cross roads at least looks sudden and impactful

 

[Skinsley]

PunkFan325.... Nice Melina Tag

Anyway.
NO NO NO NO NO, the way Cody uses this move, as a regular power move in a match is fine and dandy to me.
The alabama slam is in NO way a move that can hold a candle to the RKO (the poor mans Diamond Cutter). O.K. it has its similarities to Barrett's Wasteland but I still dont think its a GREAT finisher by any means.....the impact can be nasty....but at the same time its very messy.

CrossRoads however is one badass move...looks like it takes technique to pull off on both wrestlers points of view, and looks like it fucking hurts at the same time. It also gives Cody a perfect oppertunity to adress the crowd or show emotional facial expressions to the crowd just before he hits the finisher.
Really why change what is already perfect?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

It shouldn't be a finish. He's too small to do it to a lot of guys and he's too small to do it really fast. It'd require too much set up.

Crossroads is known as his finisher, why change it? He can do cross roads to pretty much anyone and with speed.

A finisher isn't always about believability, if that were the case, every small guys finish would be a top rope elbow (220 pounds all behind the point of someone's elbow into your chest) and every big guys finish would be a powerbomb (back of your head smacking off the mat).

It's about uniqueness and marketing that finish as the finish. The Alabama Slam is great for him as a signature move.

 

[beckyh]

The Cross Roads is a great finisher for him because it is believable for his size and speed to grab someone by the neck like that and spin them around before they hit the mat. It is a good thing that he is building a strong repetoire of moves like the Alabama Slam and Beautiful Disaster into his moveset. I think as time goes by, he will add 2-4 more moves.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Rhodes using the Alabama Slam is a fun little tribute to his old tag team with Hardcore Holly, the first angle he was involved with during his career in WWE. It shows how much he has developed since then. With that being said, I do not think it should be his main finisher because Crossroads is more fitting for him both in name and in style. The slam should be thrown in every now and then but why make it his main finisher when he already has a better one?

 

[CitiBoy7]

I love how Cody is becoming such a great character and all but the IC title is once again taking a back seat. Like Cody is being pushed but the fact that he's a champion isn't even the focus. Don't get me wrong I like seeing Cody and Randy go at it but it would be better without Cody holding the title. Cody has the tools to be a top star on smackdown at this point. Basically smackdown has a bunch of superstars doing nothing while Cody just holds on to the belt. I would be okay with Cody keeping his belt if they would at least make him defend it against some SD midcards more often. Look at raw with Ziggler who's starting to defend his title alot like it should be. Im just saying Cody's doing well but the IC title is being forgotten in my opinion.

Your Thoughts???

 

[vaderpwnsall]

Hi, not sure if belongs in the Cody Rhodes thread, but thought this was a viable enough point to warrant a sep discussion - if I'm wrong, apologies, please do move.

All these recent matches against Randy Orton are really undermining the credibility of Rhodes and the IC championship. I don't recall one of them being for the title, or there even being mention from Randy of being interested in it?!
Whats up with that?

If they truly were trying to re-establish it as a valid mid card title, then why not have a title match in there?!
Although it's nice to see Rhodes putting in a good performance against Orton, at least one victory for Rhodes would have been nice!

Thoughts?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I completely disagree.

Cody Rhodes is currently a viable and credible mid-card champion who was feuding with one of THE guys in WWE and 9 time World Champion Randy Orton. Not only was he feuding with Randy Orton, he was giving Orton all he could handle in his matches. He also holds a victory over Orton in a match they had on Raw not too long ago. He cheated to get it but, ummm...well he's a heel. Contrary to the opinion of internet smarks and various wrestling "journalists", heels are supposed to cheat to win.

I honestly don't understand why so many people believe that a wrestler has to win his match against another more established star in order to get a rub. Rhodes hung in there with one of the biggest stars the company has produced in the last decade and looked like a star doing it. Rhodes is IC champ, he's been a good one so far as well, but Randy Orton is a long established and long term main event talent. Orton was Rhodes' first feud with a main eventer and he came out on the losing end, as he should because he's still a mid-card guy.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen Rhodes get at least one more victory over Orton because it wouldn't have hurt Orton. At the same time, however, all this does is raise Rhodes' stock in WWE and establish him as the strongest IC champ since Dolph Ziggler. Ziggler feuded with Edge for the WHC in late 2010 and early 2011. As with this feud, I personally don't agree with how everything was booked in Edge vs. Ziggler, but it gave Ziggler an opportunity to show what he's capable of and he ran with that opportunity. WWE has been steadily building Rhodes up since the break up of Legacy and it's just flat out worked.

I'd agree that Rhodes & the title had been devalued if they'd just fed him to Orton in some 3 minute squash match like they would have done a year or so ago, but they didn't.

 

[vaderpwnsall]

HI Jack,
what's your opinion on the Intercontinental title during this feud?
To me, it doesn't seem like there's been any interest in it from Randy?
That hardly does anything for the credibility of the title - if I recall correctly, all Michael Cole (could have been Matthews) was on about at the end of Fridays match, was how Randy was looking to the World title picture.
This feud was a perfect opportunity to raise the stock of the IC title, but if anything, made it irrelevant.
Thoughts?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

HI Jack,
what's your opinion on the Intercontinental title during this feud?

The status of the Intercontinental Championship was raised during this feud because of simply who Rhodes was facing. When is the last time you can think of in which the reigning Intercontinental Champion feuded against one of the biggest names in the company? Here's an old school example of how a guy's stock can be elevated by facing a main eventer. The circumstances aren't exactly the same, but it's an instance that springs to mind. During a television taping held by Jim Crockett promotions on Valentine's Day in 1986, Ric Flair defended the NWA World Heavyweight Championship against Barry Windham. It was possibly the greatest match of Windham's career and probably the best match I'd ever seen him have against Flair. They wrestled to a time limit draw and, all throughout the match, Windham held his own against Flair. He didn't come out the winner of the match or the title, but he came out look like a million bucks. At that time, Windham was one half of the NWA United States Tag Team Champions. The fact that Windham didn't beat Flair, to my knowledge he never pinned Flair in a singles match, didn't do anything to lower his stock or the stock of the title he himself was carrying. Windham never became the same level of star that Flair was, the vast majority of people that faced Flair didn't become as big of a star as he did, but Windham always looked good against Flair. Cody Rhodes is still a very young guy, he's only about 27 or so I think, and he took one of the biggest stars in wrestling to the limit. As I said in my earlier post, Rhodes does have a victory over Orton on Raw. He didn't come out as the overall winner of their feud, but he still came out looking like a star. Rhodes showed everyone watching in this feud that he has the potential to be a main eventer at some point down the line. That's what this feud was primarily about.

To me, it doesn't seem like there's been any interest in it from Randy? That hardly does anything for the credibility of the title - if I recall correctly, all Michael Cole (could have been Matthews) was on about at the end of Fridays match, was how Randy was looking to the World title picture.
This feud was a perfect opportunity to raise the stock of the IC title, but if anything, made it irrelevant.

I don't mean any offense by this but you just don't understand the aspects of a wrestling feud. It's not just about who wins or who loses. It's not just about who wins a title and who doesn't win a title. It's not just about seeing who has more wins in a feud and who has more losses. It's also about who a wrestler faces in a feud. It's about how one wrestler looking to get a rub looks against a more accomplished name & bigger star in his feud. It's about taking someone and seeing how they do when put into a high profile feud with a very high profile star. The ideal purpose of a feud is to use the star power of one wrestler, usually one more accomplished and a generally bigger star than the other, to elevate the status of another wrestler. This feud wasn't about the Intercontinental Championship for Randy Orton from a kayfabe perspective. It was about Rhodes personally insulting & humiliating him, at least in his own eyes. Orton is such a huge star in WWE that Rhodes looked good by being able to take everything an established main eventer and 9 time World Champion could give, and almost be able to defeat him in spite of it.

Since Randy Orton is one of the most dominant forces in the WWE, Cody Rhodes comes out looking like a young, up and coming wrestler that's able to go into a ring and hold his own, and possibly beat, anybody else in the company. As Rhodes happens to be reigning Intercontinental Champion, it makes him look good as he's still just a mid-card wrestler holding a mid-card championship but is able to hang with one of the biggest stars in the world.

 

[Skinsley]

Here comes another edition of "Someone is being Buried in WWE".

Cody Rhodes had a grade A "streetfight" with Orton at the start of Smackdown this week and to me that made Rhodes look pretty damn solid. Rhodes does need to start an IC title feud after this situation with Orton is over with otherwise I do think that the status of the IC title would start to loose its credibility. If the rumours of Booker T starting a feud with Cody are true then I hope that Booker decides to try and take the title.

Orton is a Heavyweight/WWE champion.... it makes sense that he wouldnt care about the IC title because he still feels he has unfinished business with Henry...weather he gets another shot at Henry though remains to be seen.

So to summarise : No I do not think that the IC title is being Devalued...but another NONE title related feud after this current one would then see the title begin to dwindle into a secondairy objective.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Yes, and no. On one hand it would be nice if Randy Orton showed just a little bit of interest in the title that Cody Rhodes holds. By being in a feud for over a month and having 4+ matches, and never once bringing up the title Orton is kind of saying "No, that's ok...I'm good". I know that's never once actually been said, but when everyone other opponent Rhodes has BESIDES Orton is going after the title, it's a little odd that it's just glossed over in this feud. Why wouldn't Orton have asked for the title on the line, considering he beat Rhodes...three times? Four? Does the title mean that little to him that he really doesn't even want it?

Then again, you could make a case that Randy Orton, THE main event player on Smackdown gives Rhodes and the title a great rub by even being in a feud with Rhodes. I was so glad that management thought high enough of Rhodes that they let him go over Orton at first, attacking him and bagging him several weeks in a row. And then Orton beat him...and then beat him again...and then beat him again this last Friday. That should have been a WrestleMania feud, lasting several months but instead they blew it off on Smackdown with that street fight. BOO!

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

You're insanely off base here.

Orton, along with Punk, is the second biggest star WWE has (not counting Taker and HHH). Title defended or not, Rhodes looks like a big deal being anywhere near Orton. Rhodes hasn't won, but he has definitely held his own. Directly or indirectly, that makes the IC title look much, much more important.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

Randy Orton is a former 9 time WWE/WHC, and Rhodes being involved in a feud with him doesn't at all devalue Rhodes or the IC Title. Randy Orton is helping to elevate Rhodes to that next level and by having Rhodes hold the IC title during this program it only helps to add value to it.

Rhodes has clean pin fall victories over Orton. The IC Champ has beat the former WHC. How does that not improve his standing? The IC Champion is feuding with a 9 time Champion. How does that not improve his and the titles standing? Rhodes is currently rolling into his 3rd month as IC Champion and going strong.

In the olden days of the WCW the US Champion was in most cases #1 contender to the WCW Title. US Champ vs WCW Champ was a Main Event Level Match. The best of the Middle Card vs the Best of the Main Event. Hell there was a PPV in which the US Title match was booked as the Main Event match for the PPV, with no WCW Title Match on the card at all.

Orton is too deeply embedded in the main event scene to drop down to a middle card title. Orton is at a point in his career where he's either WWE/WHC or he's not. I don't see him being a tag, IC or US Champion at any point in the next 3 years. I wont say he's above it, but he doesn't really doesn't need it.

I think putting these two against each other is a great idea. It elevates Rhodes into the Main Event, and it keeps Randy Orton away from the title.

 

[ABMorales787]

I really hated how the Intercontinental title was never on the line as it breaks logic for one seeing how Orton passed on a major singles title simply because he regularly gets the main one, but it killed the idea of the re-designed belt. However, I disagree about him or the belt losing value. The belt was neutral as the feud started and ended. However, Rhodes took the often sadistic Orton to his breaking point on several occasions. Looking at how Rhodes fared and then recalling Christian's over-the-top schemes to beat Orton, Rhodes looked for superior to the man Orton had a long running feud with. He's been showcased as one lethal up-and-comer.

 

[The Crock]

All these recent matches against Randy Orton are really undermining the credibility of Rhodes and the IC championship. I don't recall one of them being for the title, or there even being mention from Randy of being interested in it?!
Whats up with that?

If they truly were trying to re-establish it as a valid mid card title, then why not have a title match in there?!

I really hated how the Intercontinental title was never on the line as it breaks logic for one seeing how Orton passed on a major singles title simply because he regularly gets the main one, but it killed the idea of the re-designed belt.

I couldn't disagree more with you two. For one, it doesn't "break logic" for Orton not to go after the belt, not at all. This feud between Orton and Rhodes was about far more than the belt. They didn't need the belt in there to interfere on what was really going on. Cody Rhodes was getting under Randy Orton's skin, he was pushing him to his limit, he was striving to define himself as a higher caliber WWE Superstar. With all of that going on, putting the Intercontinental Championship into the mix only would have ruined that, muddled the true point. If anything, it would have overshadowed the Intercontinental Championship, so why not just put it to the side and focus on the bad blood between these two men? It doesn't always have to be about championships and in this case it wasn't. This was all about lifting Cody Rhodes' status. It did just that. As the Intercontinental Champion he has already returned prestige to the belt, with a very solid reign and there's no reason that can't continue on. This just gives him the flexibility now, in that he doesn't have to be defined as a mid carder, he can now challenge main eventers and be a fringe main eventer in his own right.

Let's look at it this way, Randy Orton is a top 3 guy in the WWE and probably all of professional wrestling, what he did for Cody, even though Cody never got that one "hallmark" win, is immeasurable. Cody went step for step with Randy Orton and that's something many can't say. His value and automatically the value of the title belt around his waist will skyrocket. I see this feud as a bit of a throwback to how wrestling once was, back when an up-and-comer, especially the Intercontinental Champion, would be working his way to that main event spot, to that World Heavyweight Championship shot. In effect, what they did here was to build Rhodes up more, but allow him to continue to successfully carry the Intercontinental Championship and build his "legacy" with it.

This right here with Cody Rhodes is the closest we'll have to a guy like Rey Mysterio or Chris Jericho holding the Intercontinental Championship in a long time. Sure, Dolph Ziggler was able to do it before him, but if you take a look past Cody, who else can have a reign with the championship, but have that status on the card? Rhodes is looking like Mr. Perfect, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and Razor Ramon did before him, like Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, and Ultimate Warrior did before them. Don't be fooled by the fact that Rhodes didn't defend the Intercontinental Title against Orton, he still did wonders for it. He had a main event-caliber feud as the mid card champion. In today's product, that is VERY rare. Think of what that can now do for a guy who faces Rhodes? Sure, it won't be instantaneous, nor will it have the effect that Orton had on Rhodes, but it will give Rhodes' challenger a "rub" of his own. When the time comes for Rhodes to move on to the main event, he'll be able to drop the Intercontinental Champion, building another solid mid carder there, while being able to work off of his own prior main event status, or whatever you want to call this feud with Orton. This is very similar to how the Intercontinental Championship used to signify the number one contender for the World Title. I'm not saying that needs to be done again, but in this instance, it is a very wise choice.

Overall, I definitely disagree with your ideas of Rhodes and the Intercontinental Championship being devalued. For reasons I have already stated, it is just flat out the opposite of what has really been happening.

 

[Canadian_SXE]

I wouldn't have a problem with the whole Orton/Rhodes feud at all except for your logic. The whole "Orton is a main event guy so he shouldn't be feuding for a mid card title" thing. So guys like Triple H, Kane, Big Show, JBL, Rey Mysterio, Ric Flair, and multiple others can start mid card title feuds and be just fine yet Orton can't be bothered with it. When your champion is feuding with someone for multiple matches and the title is nowhere to be seen, in my mind that devalues the championship a bit since it is forgotten. Triple H had no problem feuding with Ric Flair over the Intercontinental championship back in 2005 and he was already a 10x world champ. Kane and Big Show have both moved back and forth feuding with mid card and world titles without effecting anything. Hell, back in WCW Flair had multiple feuds with several US champions everytime having the title on the line. He didn't just begin a feud with a champion and go the entire feud without even attempting to win the championship. So I think they could have at least had the title on the line once. But then again with how the WWE booked the feud Orton would hav ended up winning the title because they couldn't have Orton lose.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Pro wrestling isn't a sport, it's entertainment.

Orton hates Rhodes and winning the IC title wouldn't do anything for him. If you're a millionaire and some douche is calling you out, do you beat him up and take his wallet? No, it doesn't matter.

The IC title isnt' being devalued. Rhodes isn't being devalued, he's with the face of smackdown.

You have to think outside the box sometimes. Pro Wrestling history is FILLED with feuds that were about personal hate and not a title. Not only that, but years ago, a title was rarely defended.

 

[berlinbrawler]

(It's funny how so many threads around here begin with an apology because people are afraid they're doing something wrong. The mods really crack the whip around here. )

I don't think the feud with Orton is hurting the IC title or Rhodes at all.
While Orton has been dominating this feud, Rhodes never looked weak in it. In fact over long stretches he got portrayed as being able to hang with Orton. On the long haul this is actually helping Rhodes. He's earning main event stripes.

Does it devalue the IC title? No, not really. Yea, it's been put on the back burner for the time being, but whatever. Orton is not fighting over midcard titles.
Overall I'm not concerned by this, because the IC title had been practically dead for 10+ years. HOWEVER, it's got a pulse again thanks to Rhodes and especially thanks to the classic belt design having been brought back. With every week that passes the IC title is healing a little bit just because that classic belt is on TV.
I expect the IC title to gain more relevance over 2012.

 

[ctln4rko]

I haven't been able to follow WWE as closely as I'd like for the past few weeks: power outages, personal life etc. What happened to the mask? The gimmick? I heard a report from a house show said that he didn't talk in the way he did, sorry to be vague. What happened? He and Orton had a street fight, the mask got demolished, yeah yeah yeah, burt why just drop it? What's his gimmick now?

I'll give my two cents on the IC title taking a back seat opinions- I kind of agree; Orton and Rhodes have faced multiple times, even on PPV, yet no title defenses.Why not build the feud but have the IC title featured by having Rhodes defend against mid carders- Dibiase, Gabriel, Sin Cara, even an Uso- so that it's a win win.

 

[JWGunslinger]

Not at all, if anything Cody is bringing prestige to the title and making it seem more important. It's nice to see the title defended often but just because it isn't does not mean the title is devalued, as long as the champion isnt getting ridged around and losing match after match he's doing just fine, and Cody is doing a hell of alot more than that. Cody's recent transformation from dashing to disfigured and now his current state have done nothing but boost the prestige and respect back to the title .

 

[ryan86]

The IC title has not been of any sort of value since it helped launch Jericoh, Angle, and benoit in 2000. Eddie gurerro brought prestige to it also but it's just been a meaningless belt since.

Cody has brought honor back to the title not only by his pure in ring, and mic skills, but he is being treated like a challenger to main-event status because of the IC belt he holds.

It's saying to the fans that winning the belt will give you an oppurtunity to enter main event status. Like a number 1 contendership, or next in line to break the glass ceiling.

wrather you like Cody or not, it's all about the message the WWE is sending about the man who holds the belt. But Cody has to actualy complete on the promise that the message represents, and that's earn a title shot at WM while still holding the belt.

If not, the belt becomes irrelevant again.

Its about solidifing the message and preception of the belt. If done correctly, the next man to hold the title will be seen in the same light as Cody; next in line.