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**MERGED** All Championship Prestige Discussion

I think that since after 2010 the reason why mid card titles have taken a nose dive is because of the two World Titles the WWE has. Back during the roster split that was ok because you had the following hierarchy
World Title -> Mid Card Title
WWE Title -> Mid Card Title

So this mean the one holding the midcard normally has the 2nd top title of the brand. Now with brand split pretty much over, the WWE Title has become the top title while the World Heavyweight Title has become the secondary title or what the IC Title was.

So where does this leave the midcard titles? It pushes it down even further making them less significant. So were at the point where the IC Title is now the equivalent of the European Title, and the US Title is either the TV Title or the Hardcore Title.
 
The hierarchy of the title belts has changed, and (to borrow a figure of speech) now that the cat's out of the bag, there's no putting it back in. It's similar to boxing. The number of belts has increased and, as a result, all of the titles seem less prestigious.

One thing the WWE could do right away to mitigate the nosedives the IC and US titles seem to take every so often is to stop having the champions lose so damn much. The IC and US champion should not be jobbers to the stars, much less jobbers to the midcard faces.

The prestige of the midcard titles, especially the Intercontinental Championship as it relates to its place in WWE history, is mostly gone. Anybody in their late 20s, early 30s and above who watched WWE and WCW has seen them both fall over the precipice; from true secondary titles, to largely irrelevant props. So, long answer short, I just don't think the belts will ever mean what they once did. I hope I'm wrong, for future wrestling fans sake.
 
Many fans of Wwe think of the World Heavyweight Championship as a 2nd rate Championship and it has not got as much meaning to it as he Wwe Championship does, So Wwe need to so something to make the Heavyweight Championship meaningful again.

I personally think they should put a stop to Wrestlers appearing on both Raw and Smackdown and have a draft to determined what stars appear on what shows, then they should have a Main Event player from Raw (I.E. John Cena, Cm Punk or Maybe The Rock) go over to the Blue Brand and hold the Championship for a extended amount of time thus bringing prestige back to the Championship and making it worth while again.

That is what I think so what do you think they should do?
 
Yes I know a lot of people would like to see the titles being unified myself included but some fans are very quick to put down the championship, like saying it's only for a Title to reward guys for there loyalty and services to wwe or give it to a guy whos never be Top tier champion to test the waters to see will they make it as a wwe champion, I find that argument invalid

ex. Miz one the wwe championship with no gaurantee he would succeed, Sheamus won wwe championship win he was proven, Jeff Hardy first world championship was the wwe championship, Current WHC Alberto Del Rio one the wwe championship so to say the World Championship is only to test the water for the younger guys i find ridicoulous.

I do see it a lessor to the wwe championship but where some wrestling fans talk the World Heavyweight Championship is on the same level as the IC/US Championships, I see it like boxing where there a 4/5 world championships to win in each weight but the WBA/WBC (I know it's one of them) is the top one but that doesn't mean the other championships are shot down. So i just don't get it why there is so much hate the WHC by some fans out there (I know not all of you)
 
I think the reason that some people think this should happen is because the World Title has lost allot of prestige recently. The feuds are no longer even so much about the World Titles anymore, its more about the story. IMO, the World Title needs to regain it's prestige and stop being buried like its beneath the WWE Title. The Jack Swagger and Alberto Del Rio feud has been great and its been the first feud that WWE have done to make it actually mean something.
 
The one thing the WHC offers is variety. Christian, Mark Henry, Swagger, The Great Khali, none of them would get near the WWE Championship. The championship might not be the focal point of the most anticipated matches on a card, but give me the different matches for that title over a calendar year over the 3-5 variations of the same match for the WWE Championship.

It's still worthless though.
 
Talk to the WWE about that...they're the ones that marginalized the importance of it. Sheamus' ultra super-face character killed that title and completely killed what interest I had left in Smackdown.

The title doesn't matter, it's the quality of the character holding it. And Sheamus is boring as all hell. He's another mark for the kids. That's what WWE is these days.
 
I don't hate it, i even think it looks way cooler than the WWE title. It has really been marginalised though. Back in the roster split, they were separated and neither of them infringed on the other's main event spot (except at big 4 PPV's), but now one has to give way and it's always the WHC.

The WHC is always the curtain jerker for PPV's/Wrestlemania and on Raw it always plays second fiddle to the WWE title. It generally gets the 'lesser' talent competing for it and it's never the focal point of Raw. Even when CM Punk was injured, it didn't main event TLC, instead what main-evented was the MITB ladder match FOR that title, i'm sure that the specific occasion wasn't just because of Cena either.

In the current situation, there needs to be only one world champion. There can be multiple midcard titles, but from a kayfabe perspective, how can you say you're the best in the world if theres another guy who can also claim that accolade?
 
Personally, I don't think WWE actually needs the World Heavyweight Championship and I do think that it'll be gone at some point. I'm guessing it'll happen when Triple H takes over after Vince steps down. WWE house show attendance is strong right now even though the WWE Championship isn't being defended. With interest in the wrestlers and other titles, WWE is still doing good business. Any energy put into the WHC can easily be shifted to the mid-card titles and I'd be willing to bet that interest wouldn't go down for a World Championship not being defended at every house show.

That being said, the World Heavyweight Championship is just one of the endless things people want to complain about. I've learned that when it comes to prestige regarding championships, there's no way to stem the tide of endless bitching & moaning. The World Heavyweight Championship is no different. People will look for any excuse to rag on the title it seems. They'll rag on it as worthless if the champion carrying it is someone they don't like, or if the champion doesn't have the sort of character they think he should, or if his matches don't take place at a certain point on the card, etc. Like so many other things in pro wrestling, some people simply don't want to even try to be entertained. They're too busy with their personal fantasy booking scenarios. Little things like good feuds, interesting angles, entertaining storyline and quality wrestling matches don't seem to matter to them I suppose. If very measurable detail doesn't fit with their fantasy, then it's declared lousy in their minds and they take to the forums.
 
Trouble is that its not WWE and World Heavyweight Championship but Raw and Smackdown title. Smackdown is in recent years lesser show(Raw is Supershow) so their roster is considerably "weaker" then Raw roster. Therefore it cannot be some very prestige title when "lesser" guys fight for it. I would argue even more and say that it cannot be prestige title when you dont build it in that way. Over the course of last and year before that Danyel Bryan won the title by cashing in MiTB contract. Problem is, before that he was nowhere to be found and fought in PPV dark match. After that title went in 18 sec match at Wrestlemania to Sheamus only for him to lost the title to Big Show(quit a suprise and good match though). Then he lost it in Smackdown episode to Del Rio who was losing in episode after episode and turned face in a very stupid way and all of the sudden he defeated Show and took the title. In previous years we had up very prestige guys on Smackdown to hold the title(Undertaker, Batista, Edge, Jericho, Cena), and very good up and comers(Punk, Hardy etc) that created very good feuds over that title. Now you have Sheamus and Del Rio as babyfaces of Smackdown two guys that are good in-ring but nowhere near WWE wants them to be and Show(which is always decent to me) and Swagger(guy who jobbed to anyone before Zeb Coulter came) as no1 heels. With that you can create decent storyline but not when you dont build anything properly strong. Smackdown today is no2 show and they treat it like that. :)
 
Write a list of Wrestlers in order of importance, fan interest and in ring entertainment/quality.. Now see where the World Heavyweight Champion comes on the list. Cena, Punk, Taker, Lesner, Jericho, Orton, The Shield, Ryback, Kane, Bryan, Ziggler etc. are all in front.

Del Rio just isn't that big of a draw currently.. And Swagger has been struggling at mid card level for years.. If this bout was for the US title it would be brilliant, not for Smackdowns main event. How can you take something seriously when they're not making it for 'the elite'. Can anyone realistic see Del Rio becoming anything from this run as champion?, is Swagger viable long term as a champion?.. What is the payoff for this title?, there is none it's a merry-go-round of mediocrity. They need to build something with a quality champion and give the title some integrity.
 
I don't care what anyone else says, I'm still a fan of the World Heavyweight Championship title and it looks better than the WWE Championship. I remember back in 2002-2005 when the World Heavyweight Championship was treated on equal grounds as the WWE Championship, especially when it was on RAW. Triple H held it, Shawn Michaels held it, Undertaker held it, Kurt Angle held it and John Cena held it. I think it had plenty of prestige. The problem is with how the WWE seems to be treating the title today as secondary rather than one of two primary. Plus, the fact that guys that can't or will never win the WWE Championship are the majority that win the World Heavyweight Championship doesn't really give it much power. It's like the WWE Championship, World Heavyweight Championship and ECW World Championship scenario several years ago. They were all regarded as world titles, but you knew the ECW World title was the secondary among the three while the other two were equal. Now that ECW is gone, there is very little mention of guys having won the ECW title and that being considered a world title at all. If the World Heavyweight Championship were to be "unified" with the WWE Championship, would there be no mention of that title as well? They'll probably call guys like Christian and Daniel Bryan former World Champions, but nothing too specific. How much does it even matter for them though? Did it really elevate them to Main Event status that is on equal quality as WWE Championship contenders? Not really. Unless it's a guy that has already won the WWE Championship before, the rest won't look like they can convincingly win when up against a WWE Championship contender. Of course, it's all up to creative and booking, but that's rare these days. You look at someone like Mark Henry and you think, "Man...what a wrecking machine. I bet he could dominate against John Cena. I mean, he's a former World Heavyweight Champion that went through a competitive streak and all" and then he loses to Cena like it was nothing. Boom, legitimacy has left the building. And now people are comparing the World Heavyweight Championship to the Intercontinental and US titles. That says a lot about how much the World Heavyweight Championship has dropped in terms of seriousness. Great looking title that had prestige, but the build-up and booking of the winners and contenders suffer from becoming fodder to the primary WWE Main Event stars.
 
The problem with the World Heavyweight Championship is the lack of prestige it has due to how WWE has been treating it in recent years. It once was viewed as being on the same level as the WWE Championship. Winning the World Heavyweight Championship no longer seems like as big of a deal as winning the WWE Championship does. It OPENED the last couple of Wrestlemania shows and has not closed a PPV event in over 2 years. That's how not you treat a world title. It needs to close more shows and be made to be a big deal again, but I doubt that will happen. In fact, I agree with those who think it will not be around much longer.

I like the World Heavyweight Championship and would like to see it stick around longer, earning some of its prestige back. WWE has two main brands. Raw and Smackdown might not have seperate rosters of wrestlers assigned to a specific show competing for specific belts anymore, but since they do have two shows they can have Raw focus on the WWE Championship while Smackdown focuses on the World Heavyweight Championship. Or they can unify them and put more effort into working on the midcard titles' prestige. All the time spent on the World Heavyweight Championship can easily be spent on the US and Intercontinental Championship and it frees up more challengers for the WWE Championship. WWE doesn't really need two world titles anymore due to the brands entering the supershow format, but I do like the World Heavyweight Championship and would like to see it remain in use, with the booking it deserves.
 
I apologize if this was not posted in the correct place. My demographic here are old school fans, but it pertains to the current product/state of affairs. It does mention WrestleMania, but really isn't a WrestleMania post. Anyway, sorry if it is in the wrong spot.

The Intercontinental title match is in the pre-show of WrestleMania 29. Ugh! This is unbelievable and a "tragedy"..as far as wrestling titles and match placement go. Now, to be fair, I have no problem with THIS IC match being on the pre-show because I have no interest in it. There is no storyline and Miz has nothing to offer in his current role. BUT, what gets me is thinking back to what a big deal (and rightfully so) this title - and the matches in which it was defended - were back in the glory days.

Muraco/Santana/Valentine, Savage/Steamboat, Warrior/Rude, Honky Tonk's cowardice heel reign, Mr. Perfect, and right up to and including Hart/Bulldog. (No offense to HBK, Razor, Rock, Eddie, whoever---that's just not my era). The storylines and feuds and matches that were based on the pursuit of this title...they were plentiful and classic! I understand that title changes these days are either rapid or insignificant...or often both. But, to think of the importance of the IC strap back then and to see it as a pre-show match now...I just can't believe the powers that be let the title diminish to this point.

To fans of that Golden Era and a little before and after, did the pre-show announcement kind of take you back a bit? I mean, had the IC match been on 4th and lasted 4 minutes, I probably would have gone for a drink and a piss and not cared that I missed it. I think it is just seeing it placed in such a spot that got my attention. Kind of like it is officially insignificant now.

I'm sure Edge and Austin and Benoit and Angle and Benjamin all had great IC moments and matches. That is not what I am talking about here. It is where the belt is now as opposed to the era I am addressing. Looking forward to hearing from other Golden Era fans' take on this.
 
I agree. I can't believe how quickly they just shoved the IC title down the drain in only a few short months.

They were actually, seemingly, trying to build UP the IC title a while back after Barrett won it, planning to do some sort of Intercontinental Cup then they scrapped it because they wanted to give that man-lady Bo Dallas a meaningless feud with Barrett that went no where.

And not that I am a fan of the current Miz so I do not care about THIS IC title match, just like you, but I just hate how insignificant they are making the title.

It's embarrassing.

Go to WWE.com and look under Superstars. What are the first 6 Superstars you see in that line-up? Not including the Divas Champ you see the 6 title holders. So apparently that means those are the top guys in the company and so logic would dictate that most storylines and feuds should be based around the pursuit for those titles.

Yet, at the biggest show of the year for WWE the IC title is a pre-show that had very little compelling storyline behind it and the US title is NOT EVEN ON THE CARD!?

They sell those damn replica belts for $400+ a pop on WWEShop.com but they don't even treat the actual titles like they are worth $4!

Frustrating.

And why I refuse to buy any WWE PPVs until this is corrected.

In fact the only WWE product I put my hard earned money into is the WWE video game because I can finally right the wrongs in the WWE until (hopefully) it happens for real.

So WWE can takemy $65 a year on their video game but won't get a cent more until they bring back prestige and intrigue into EACH of the title belts.
 
Easily the match of the night. The IC title snoozer should be on the pre-show, and this should be the palate cleanser in-between main events.

Glad WWE listens to me. The Intercontinental and US titles are officially irrelevant to me. There isn't going to be any "prestige" brought back to them. They aren't going to be stepping stones to world championships. They are just there because they've always been there. The IC title should have stayed retired. Welcome to the new normal, folks. The World Heavyweight Championship is the IC title of the 21st century. The US Championship is a useless piece of bronze painted up nice and patriotic-like. So be it.

I really do think that that match will be a snoozer and deserves pre-show status, though. Wade Barrett needs to go away and be re-tooled again and The Miz sucks as a face.
 
I'm not going to pick on the guys that are scheduled to have a match with each other at WrestleMania this year, because let's face it both The Miz and Wade Barrett are in the Intercontinental Championship level, as far as their status goes inside the company. But as pretty much every undercard match, it lacks some meaningful build-up, which yes, is a pretty darn shame, specially when we are talking about two great promeurs.

Wade Barrett is a very stale character nowadays, he had a feud with Kofi Kingston for the strap, which he won never to defend it again in another new feud. They tested the waters with Bo Dallas, but even though everyone started to crap on the guy, there were a handful number of people who looked at it, as a way to at least give the Intercontinental Champion something to work with, but they just scratch that never to mention it again. They started something with Sheamus, which didn't result in anything once again. They teased Chris Jericho, only to end up being The Miz in less that two weeks for the big stage.

The Miz came of a losing effort against Antonio Stalesaro, which killed all the momentum he might had collected while working as a Ric Flair protegé. He was lost in the card as well, so the whole match feels rushed and with no point whatsoever. They could at least use a Deadman Down vs. Marine III type of feud.

In the end this match is just a proof that the reports that came out about the creative team being lost, is true. It just lacks the proper build up, but since both characters need a boost for the victory, I will pay attention to the match and right now I even find it very unpredictable, specially since Miz is currently undefeated at WrestleMania, and the mark inside of me, wants him to keep that way.
 
It being a pre-show match doesn't bother me particularly because the WWE has made it quite clear that they haven't cared about the IC or US titles in a long time. What bothers me is how they book the champions. When champions lose the majority of their tv matches, they shouldn't be champions at all. Might as well just go back to two singles titles in that case(three if you bring back a lighter class).
 
This question poped up in my mind when I watched Batista MMA debute on youtube a few days back.
When they announced his name they said he is a six-time WWE world champion.
When we say for example Brock Lesnar is a former UFC champion it mean something. At least of it, it mean he is a tough fighter.
But what about a WWE championship with all those fake stuff does it really mean anything at all? What's the difference between a 10 time world champion and a never been champion? (please don't bring up that charisma bullshit what I mean by this question is their career status)
 
Well WWE is a huge brand, they have tons more name value then the MMA league he was fighting for. And there's no downside to mentioning if they were a former champion that just shows that they were a big deal elsewhere and that they should be considered a big deal in MMA.
 
*Do championships mean anything*. Jesus, didn't that sound bad when you read it in your head? I'm not a grammar nazi that will pick apart effect vs affect or whom vs who, but holy shit.

Anyways, yes they do. Do Oscar awards matter? Some are bad (Shakespeare in Love didn't deserve one back in the day). It's a live performance award.
 
Championships mean that the company backs you in some way. Think of it like a promotion at work or even a pay raise.

As for Brock, the only reason he got pushed as fast and as far as he did in the UFC was because of his prior history. Dana knew he would have an instant fan base due to wrestling fans following Brock to UFC so he was pushed to the top of the heap.

Do championships mean what they used to? Sadly no, they are more a prop then a commitment in an person to draw. I remember the 80's when a championship match on TV would be something special. Now you can see one each week.
 
championships mean a lot, it shows the company had high value in you and placed you in an important role in the storylines. It is true that title reigns do not last as long typically as they used to, a result of live TV forced to show main event level matches each week to draw ratings and the faster progression of storylines due to monthly PPVs. However, champions are typically the guys most prominently featured in high profile spots in those live TV specials and monthly PPVs, they are still the top stars, so being selected as one of the top stars or centerpieces of the show is extremely important.

Today you would also evaluate the length of title runs when truly determining the value to that performer more so than twenty five years ago as a more legit way to gauge the importance. Still, if you are the centerpiece of a $400 billion dollar entertainment company then that is a very important honor and shows your value to the product.
 
Sure they matter in the grand scheme of things. While it's true that they're not exactly 100% legitimate championships, given that pro wrestling is staged, the titles are generally supposed to be a symbol of standing within the company. They represent glory and are proof of one's ability to get the job done.

In a lot of situations, however, the value of championships do fluctuate. At one point or another, probably all of us have griped about how titles are used. Sometimes it's justified. Like right now, for instance, both the mid-card titles in both WWE and TNA don't exactly count for a lot. WWE's mid-card titles seem to have peaks and valleys. For instance, during the past few months, the mid-card championships and the wrestlers holding them have been pretty much buried. Neither Wade Barrett nor Antonio Cesaro, two wrestlers with a lot of talent and hard workers, didn't have a spot on the main WM card. Barrett's IC title match was pushed to the pre-show and Cesaro didn't have any involvement whatsoever. After a strong IC title match on Raw this past Monday, here's hoping that WWE will start to bringing the title back to prominence as it heads into the post WrestleMania season. As for the US title, it's all up in the air. It's generally thought of as being less prestigious than the IC title, at least in terms of how it's treated overall in WWE. In TNA, both mid-card titles have generally gone for years as being little more than belts that certain wrestlers simply hold onto for a while before the company decides to let another wrestler carry it. The exception for the X Division being Austin Aries, but the title went back to the status quo after he dropped it. As for the TV title, it's never really meant anything in its existence. It often goes for months on end without being defended.

In WWE, the tag team titles have meant more in the past 7 months than they have in the past 5 years. Like the mid-card titles, the tag team picture, which had been doing pretty well all in all, was put on the backburner during WrestleMania season. Now that it's over, here's hoping that things get back on track. While the charm of the unique comedic chemistry between Bryan & Kane has worn off quite a bit, they're still two talented wrestlers that are extremely over, especially Bryan, with fans. It's starting to look like Team Hell No might be embarking on some sort of tag team feud with The Shield, so that's something to look forward to and will put a good deal more emphasis on the tag titles as a whole than in the past few months.

As far as the World Championships in WWE, the WWE Championship is almost always treated like the top tier championship that it is. There are always going to be complaints about everything from how the title looks to who is getting a run with it to what order WWE Championship matches should place on the card, etc. Generally speaking, at least most of the time, that's just nitpicking. The title has gotten a big dose of renewed interest since CM Punk became champion and held the title for longer than anyone else in the past quarter century.

The World Heavyweight Championship will always be secondary to the WWE Championship. Because of that, a lot of people have questioned the need to have a second World Championship. The primary reason, I think, has a lot to do with house shows. Initially, it was part of keeping Raw & SmackDown! as two separate brands with their own top champions. However, that's pretty much disappeared with the separate World Championships being one of the last real remnants of brand exclusivity in WWE. That's not to say that there haven't been some great champions, especially in the past year and a half or so. Mark Henry, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Big Show and even Alberto Del Rio had strong heel & babyface runs with the title. Some reigns were more enjoyable and interesting than others, which that's to be expected with any championship in any sport regardless.

If you treat titles like they don't matter, then I believe it hurts the product in some ways. During the late 90s and early 2000s especially, championships in major wrestling companies probably meant less than they ever have before or since. It wasn't at all uncommon for titles to change hands more than once a month, especially in WCW. If you treat titles like meaningless props, that's how fans will view them. Championships are a logical focal point of top wrestling feuds because of what the titles are supposed to represent, namely greater personal prestige, fame and wealth.
 
I found this quote on another board that describes SmackDown and the World Heavyweight Championship perfectly.

"SmackDown is like a graveyard for failed pushes. Sheamus, ADR, Swagger, and then guys like Orton, Show and Henry who can't be involved in major feuds on Raw for whatever reason. It's like a vortex, these guys aren't good/relevant enough for the main event but for whatever reason WWE still wants them to be stars, so they stick them on SmackDown where they can be protected for no reason and compete in meaningless filler feuds with one another in a seemingly endless cycle.

If they are going to persist with this then what they need is for everyone involved to be in the hunt for the WHC. At the moment Ziggler, Del Rio and Swagger are the only people in the WHC picture, while everyone else wrestles meaningless matches seemingly oblivious to whatever else is happening and uninterested in the title. It's ridiculous that a guy like Orton hasn't had a title match for 18 months and doesn't seem to care. Sheamus dropped the title to Big Show and now seems to have forgotten that it exists. At some point the sitcom writers lost sight of what they were trying to achieve and now the show is written like a sitcom, with the characters only really interacting with whoever they happen to be feuding with at that time, and one of these feuds happens to contain the WHC. It also doesn't help that the show is used solely as a vehicle to try and promote a single stale, substandard face. First it was Orton, then Sheamus and now Del Rio. The show is entirely centered around making one of these guys look good, meaning that it's extremely predictable and tedious. We talk about Cena being shoved down people's throats on Raw but Smackdown is far worse in that regard, it's pretty much just become a vain attempt to retain credibility for guys that they know wouldn't be able to hack it in the true main event scene on Raw."


While I wouldn't dismiss Orton, Sheamus, Del Rio, Big Show, or Henry as incapable of main eventing, it does hammer home the point that the SmackDown main eventers are just big fish in a small pond, and the WHC is just a consolation prize to placate the top guys who can't fit into the WWE Title scene for one reason or another.

These guys should either be going after the WWE Title so that it's not completely revolving around Cena/Punk. Or they should be going after the Intercontinental Title and using their star power to make it look like a big deal. There's no reason why the likes of these guys can't be competing for the Intercontinental Title and making it look important.

Dolph Ziggler winning the title was a good moment, but we all know his spot isn't going to change. He'll still be just another guy on RAW and won't main event a PPV as the champion.
 

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