Meltzer Gives Punk vs. Cena *****

[X]

Even though I agree with the rating, I must ask how this is the first 5* WWE match he's gave since HBK/Taker HIAC?

And that's a good question. I agree there are other matches that probably deserved the five star rating in the WWE in-between that time (in fact I know there are because I've handed out a bunch on my blog), but this was truly one of those matches where the crowd was just so crazy hot, the angle was so good, the atmosphere was so big and the match totally delivered. Matches like that do not come around often, and even matches I would have given five stars to in the years between 1997 and now (Benoit/Angle at RR03, HBK/Angle at WM21) still didn't live up to the atmosphere, angle, and apparent "importance" that the Cena/Punk match had. Sometimes there's just a certain aura to a match when you watch it that just makes it an instant classic. You feel it when you watch Steamboat/Savage at WM3 or any of the Flair/Steamboat classics from 1989, and I got that feeling again this past Sunday and apparently Meltzer did too.

 

[shattered dreams]

I will agree that smark may be the wrong term X. It isn't specific enough because there are certainly a variety of thought processes that different smarks can have. All I really mean is his bias seems to show. If he is a big Cena supporter that just makes it more likely to me. When I say indy, I am more referencing style FWIW.

The thing about WWE style is that imperfections tend to show more than other styles. When you mess stuff up working at that deliberate pace they do it is hard to cover it up or just move on and have the audience immediately forget. WWE tends to work a simpler style to avoid such an issue. When some of these relatively simple things start going wrong it really sticks out to me as a viewer.

 

[The Holy One]

And that's a good question. I agree there are other matches that probably deserved the five star rating in the WWE in-between that time (in fact I know there are because I've handed out a bunch on my blog), but this was truly one of those matches where the crowd was just so crazy hot, the angle was so good, the atmosphere was so big and the match totally delivered. Matches like that do not come around often, and even matches I would have given five stars to in the years between 1997 and now (Benoit/Angle at RR03, HBK/Angle at WM21) still didn't live up to the atmosphere, angle, and apparent "importance" that the Cena/Punk match had. Sometimes there's just a certain aura to a match when you watch it that just makes it an instant classic. You feel it when you watch Steamboat/Savage at WM3 or any of the Flair/Steamboat classics from 1989, and I got that feeling again this past Sunday and apparently Meltzer did too.

I was thinking of Benoit/Angle specifically as one that deserved it, but you are right about the angle and atmosphere. It's real nice when a match delivers when built by an angle as big as this one was.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

There have been several 5 star matches in WWE over the past 14 years, which says more about that Observer guy than it doesn't Punk/Cena. I value xfear's opinion more and that cunt does ridiculous 1/4 ratings.

 

[X]

I get what you're saying man, but I'm not sure I fully agree with it. I mean, that AJ/Daniels match had several noticeable botches as well, but it didn't really detract from the match for me that time either. Especially since none of the botches in either match (AJ/Daniels or Cena/Punk) were so bad that they were really noticeable to the crowd and the viewers and people booed or were upset by it. On the level of botches, those certainly were on the lower scale, as opposed to say, something like this:


Minor "botches" like those where they still perform the move but just do it sloppily never really detract much from a match for me, because in the end they still atleast connected with the maneuver even if it looked like shit. Shit sometimes botches even ADD to a match. Like in the AJ/Daniels match, I thought the fact that AJ slipped nastily on the apron while giving Daniels that snap suplex spot added to it because they both just slammed badly on the side of the apron and crumpled to the floor and it looked WAY more dangerous and painful because of it. It probably was too.

I don't know, I mean unless it's a pure botchfest, a few minor botches like that don't really upset me.

 

[shattered dreams]

Out of curiosity: X what has been keeping you at 4 3/4 and what do people make of the knee situation in the match?

 

[X]

There have been several 5 star matches in WWE over the past 14 years, which says more about that Observer guy than it doesn't Punk/Cena. I value xfear's opinion more and that cunt does ridiculous 1/4 ratings.

Perhaps the highest praise Jake has ever given to me. I'm getting a bit misty eyed, may have to print that quote out and hang it up on my bulletin board next to the poster of the kitten telling me to "hang in there" for late night inspiration when I'm dredging through the worst Nitros and Thunders ever just to finish my blog ratings.

 

[X]

Out of curiosity: X what has been keeping you at 4 3/4 and what do people make of the knee situation in the match?

Well the first time I viewed it when it happened I had already had a few drinks so I wasn't quite sure if I was just getting swept up in the moment and I just left my rating at ****3/4. The whole 1/4 star thing, for me, it's almost like notches in a little belt in my mind while I'm watching a match. As the match goes on, certain things lead me to kind of fill in the next 1/4 notch in my mind, all the way up to 5 stars. I never really got that "HOLY SHIT THIS IS FIVE STARS AND THE GREATEST MATCH EVER" feeling I've gotten from other five star matches I've seen, but at the same time it was very close. The second time I watched it, the version I was watching was taken from a direct stream rip of the show so there were a few minor problems with the picture on a couple of random big spots in the finish, so that prevented me from going to five stars again. I'm going to watch a nice, HD, clean version of it later tonight and make a final decision I think. If it still doesn't hit that five star mark in my mind, it shall remain at ****3/4.

[/Extremelyobsessivewrestlingfansinsaneratingandrambling]

 

[shattered dreams]

I agree with you about botches in general X. For whatever reason this match came off as sloppy to me (this isn't just about full out bothces to me) in the middle and AJ/Daniels didn't. Part of it might be the difference between just actually "making contact" and actually being able to sell what did happen (like how AJ and Daniels were able to recover the spot you mentioned, even it might have been through luck). It kind of goes back to the bigger the spot the less it hurts the match if it doesn't go perfect.

 

[shattered dreams]

I never really got that "HOLY SHIT THIS IS FIVE STARS AND THE GREATEST MATCH EVER" feeling I've gotten from other five star matches I've seen

In a nutshell this is all I have been trying to say about the whole experience. Entertaining for sure but if I was not drawn in to that ALLCAPS level with such an amazing crowd and story then the match probably wasn't on that rarefied level. It was the perfect setting for it but it didn't quite get there. Subsequently, I have guessed at some of the reasons why it couldn't get me to hit capslock.

 

[Remix]

Not to put any peer pressure on you X, but you must be the only smark reviewer on the web that hasn't given that match five stars. KB did (unofficially), Meltzer did, everyone at PWTorch did. I mean c'mon this is the biggest and best angle in the history of ever (well it's not, but it's still pretty damn good).

For the record, I'm undecided on whether or not it's a five star match too.

 

[Nate DaMac]

That X. Such a rebel, he is. That poor little star is just missing one leg but he just won't give it to him.

 

[shattered dreams]

Unofficially I gave it ****9/16

 

[Nate DaMac]

Lulz. On one of my reviews I legit gave a match 2 7/8. Just to be a cunt about it.

 

[shattered dreams]

I assume you have some experience with your 2 7/8 and *****.

 

[Remix]

Nicely done Shattered.

 

[X]

Not to put any peer pressure on you X, but you must be the only smark reviewer on the web that hasn't given that match five stars. KB did (unofficially), Meltzer did, everyone at PWTorch did. I mean c'mon this is the biggest and best angle in the history of ever (well it's not, but it's still pretty damn good).

For the record, I'm undecided on whether or not it's a five star match too.

Not true. JD Dunn (far and away the best reviewer on 411 and has been for many years) gave it ****1/2, and another review of the show that was done on 411 besides my own there were several ratings below ***** for the match from a roundtable, infact I think only one of the four guys gave it *****, everyone else gave it either ****1/2 or ****3/4.

Anyways, I shouldn't feel pressured to give a match five stars because other people have given it to the match. I've many times disagreed with a Meltzer or other reviewer rating.

I'll watch it again later tonight.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Well the first time I viewed it when it happened I had already had a few drinks so I wasn't quite sure if I was just getting swept up in the moment and I just left my rating at ****3/4. The whole 1/4 star thing, for me, it's almost like notches in a little belt in my mind while I'm watching a match. As the match goes on, certain things lead me to kind of fill in the next 1/4 notch in my mind, all the way up to 5 stars. I never really got that "HOLY SHIT THIS IS FIVE STARS AND THE GREATEST MATCH EVER" feeling I've gotten from other five star matches I've seen, but at the same time it was very close. The second time I watched it, the version I was watching was taken from a direct stream rip of the show so there were a few minor problems with the picture on a couple of random big spots in the finish, so that prevented me from going to five stars again. I'm going to watch a nice, HD, clean version of it later tonight and make a final decision I think. If it still doesn't hit that five star mark in my mind, it shall remain at ****3/4.

[/Extremelyobsessivewrestlingfansinsaneratingandrambling]

So basically, Guitar Hero, in your head.

 

[X]

Basically. Set to the tune of "Carry on My Wayward Son" by Kansas at all times.

 

[Smartie]

why do people think cunt is a cool term?

and the match was 5 stars. HBK/Taker I or Angle/HBK I could be 5 stars but they didn't have such a strong story or devoted crowd to back them up.

 

[.]

I don't get this at all. Let's be honest, as long as Punk won and the whole thing wasn't a complete fiasco, we all knew it'd get five stars from him.

For those keeping track, that's better than every single match in the careers of Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, and Chris Jericho, and the post-injury comeback career of Shawn Michaels. Meltzer was pretty unflinchingly calling it WWE's best pay per view ever. Does that make sense to anyone? It was a great PPV but I don't see it being above Wrestlemania X-7 or Summerslam 2002.

 

[Shocky]

I think Punk vs. Cena was a 5* match if you do that sort of thing. In fairness, there have been plenty of others as well.

Angle vs. Benoit from the Rumble 2003
Angle vs. Michaels Wrestlemania 21
Angle vs. the Undertaker No Way Out
Michaels vs. Taker I Wrestlemania 25.

Money in the Bank was a top 5 pay per view easy, best I'm not sure.

It's right up there with Mania 17, 19, 26, Summerslam 2002, and Fully Loaded 2000.

 

[JGlass]

Chicago + storyline + actual match = 5 stars. I agree.


EDIT: I should be clear about this - if this match had been random, taken place out of nowhere, this exact same match, I wouldn't go higher than 4 stars. However, when you combine the storyline, the crowd, over 30 minutes of action... I'd say 5 stars is fair.

You mean to tell me that a match wouldn't be as good if it didn't have a hot crowd and a great buildup? Say it ain't so!

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I certainly have to agree with the notion that this match, without the Chicago crowd isn't 5 stars. It's close, but not quite the full 5. But with that crowd, yeah it gets 5, and then some.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I called it one of the top three WWE title matches ever.


Gotta see it at least a few more times to do the 5 star thingy though. Ive only seen it once, and I was entirely wrapped up in it, so tough to give a fair evaluation in that case.

Also a top 10 show, I can only think of about 4 or 5 off the top of my head that are better. Once again though, this is only upon one veiwing