Maybe It's Time For Vince To Step Aside?

[ryan86]

Now, this is a tough argument to make even though I feel its a conversation worth having. If you agree or strongly detest, I would like to hear input from all sides.

For over a decade, I have seen a product once predominantly geard towards the 18-24 demo, be sliced and diced up, then spit out and reduced to an athletic circus with super hero invitations to 7-11 year olds. We have lepracons, bright orange or purple gear, THE MUPPETS, not a cuss word in sight, attempts at comedy that make me cringe, and gimmiks that leave me saying, " I'm a 25 year old man watching this?" Say what you want about WCW but they kept Vince competing for the young-adult-male demo. Does anybody else love it when The Rock shows up simply for the era that he represents? The one of ****ts, hoes, and "know your damn role".

Vince has got to do 3 things. Get out of the movie business, Stop seeking political office (Linda), and get his fingers off the comedy.

Vince may have become his own competition and he needs to be filtered.

 

[mrpops]

He is slowly stepping aside and letting others take control as he knows his time is almost up. Vinces health is becoming shittier and hes getting older. He cant keep up with this lifestyle and he knows it. Hes just preparing the company and making sure that when HHH and others takeover that they dont fuck up.

 

[The Brain]

Now, this is a tough argument to make even though I feel its a conversation worth having. If you agree or strongly detest, I would like to hear input from all sides.

For over a decade, I have seen a product once predominantly geard towards the 18-24 demo, be sliced and diced up, then spit out and reduced to an athletic circus with super hero invitations to 7-11 year olds. We have lepracons, bright orange or purple gear, THE MUPPETS, not a cuss word in sight, attempts at comedy that make me cringe, and gimmiks that leave me saying, " I'm a 25 year old man watching this?" Say what you want about WCW but they kept Vince competing for the young-adult-male demo. Does anybody else love it when The Rock shows up simply for the era that he represents? The one of ****ts, hoes, and "know your damn role".

Vince has got to do 3 things. Get out of the movie business, Stop seeking political office (Linda), and get his fingers off the comedy.

Vince may have become his own competition and he needs to be filtered.

Maybe it's time for you to step aside. I'm guessing you weren't complaining about wrestling being targeted toward 7-11 year olds when you were that age. You got to enjoy the product as a kid so what gives you the right to try to deny kids today of that same pleasure. If you got your way then kids could complain that the product is not meant for them. But that doesn't matter because you're more important than they are right?

 

[chitownballa]

Bottom line... WWE is a business. There's probably a good reason they're marketing towards a younger segment right now, i. e. they're trying to cultivate a new generation of loyal followers knowing the 16-24 yr old males who grew up on this stuff will watch anyway, primarily out of nostalgia and loyalty to the company.

 

[sephx42]

Maybe it's time for you to step aside. I'm guessing you weren't complaining about wrestling being targeted toward 7-11 year olds when you were that age. You got to enjoy the product as a kid so what gives you the right to try to deny kids today of that same pleasure. If you got your way then kids could complain that the product is not meant for them. But that doesn't matter because you're more important than they are right?

I don't really know if you have a point there, bro. I'm 31, and when i was 12 catching WCW Saturday Night for the first time, I was not bowled over by superhero antics. I was enthralled with Barry Windham getting his hand banged up by the Four Horsemen. I wasn't into Doink the Clown or Crush's goofy orange trunks, I watched Bret hart snatch the Intercontinental Title from Mr. Perfect 47 times for the drama and technical wow of it all. Maybe I'm a purist. The nWo blew me away in my teens. Watching a ring-rusted Sting lose to Hogan after a 1 year buildup (and he lost, plain and simple) made me stop watching WCW altogether.

It seems kinda out of line to say what you did, after looking at it like that. Put on a good show and the kids will still buy merch. Put on a kiddy show and all you do is turn away adults.

 

[EastCoastFan]

Vince is giving other people more responsibility, but he will never fully step aside. From what the wrestlers have said about Vince, WWE is his passion, his reason for living. He reportedly has no life outside of WWE. No matter how bad the show gets, he will not fully give up the reins unless a serious health issue arises that forces him to step down.

 

[The Brain]

It seems kinda out of line to say what you did, after looking at it like that. Put on a good show and the kids will still buy merch. Put on a kiddy show and all you do is turn away adults.

How is it a kiddy show? Just because there aren't blood and swears anymore? WWE is in a unique position where it is trying to target all age groups both male and female. That's not easy to do. The problem is guys who start threads like this aren't satisfied unless 100% of the show is targeted toward his own demographic. It's that glass half empty attitude that so many people have and I'm more than a little sick of it.

 

[sephx42]

How is it a kiddy show? Just because there aren't blood and swears anymore? WWE is in a unique position where it is trying to target all age groups both male and female. That's not easy to do. The problem is guys who start threads like this aren't satisfied unless 100% of the show is targeted toward his own demographic. It's that glass half empty attitude that so many people have and I'm more than a little sick of it.

Seems like you're taking out your frustrations on the wrong thread. While I won't say that it's a 'kiddy show' in the literal sense of the term, you have to admit, the product is crazy watered-down in comparison to ANY era before it. Punk said it himself, the title hasn't been interesting in a very long time. Raw hasn't been interesting in a very long time. If he sees it, why can't you?

 

[ryan86]

How is it a kiddy show? Just because there aren't blood and swears anymore? WWE is in a unique position where it is trying to target all age groups both male and female. That's not easy to do. The problem is guys who start threads like this aren't satisfied unless 100% of the show is targeted toward his own demographic. It's that glass half empty attitude that so many people have and I'm more than a little sick of it.

Well they are not suceeding at atracting all demographics. ratings have declined from 7% of households watching... to 2.9%.

Attendance has declined from 14,000 per event, to 6,000. I guess you dont remember how proud the WWE was to be able to say "Sold out for months". That was a staple of Jim Ross's commentary to open Raw each week from '98 to '00. I can still remember it.

and PPV buys have been gutted in half... and that is generous. They averaged a 1.3 in 2000. WWE has been forced to double PPV prices in 12 years, way ahead of inflation, too make up.

 

[KillswitchEngaged]

I have said that Vince needed to step aside years ago. I would say 2007 is where things really turned towards kids. I still watch WWE hoping that there will be a great match that comes out of all this nonsense. I saw a great match this last PPV with Punk/Miz/Del Rio. IT reminded me of the good days of WWE.

Vince has built the empire, and has no worries of losing it. I think in order to really go out with a bang he needs to convince talent from TNA errrr.... Impact......or whatever it is called this week, to come work for him. That would be epic!! If Vince were to take top talent from them it would solidify that his company will rule for decades to come.

Just imagine Vince signs Bobby Roode, Motorcity Machine Guns, James Storm, Crimson, Austin Aries, and Rob Terry to the WWE and then retires. That would be the most awesome move EVER!!! Take away MAJOR talent from the competition and go live on a beach for the rest of your days.

 

[The Brain]

Seems like you're taking out your frustrations on the wrong thread. While I won't say that it's a 'kiddy show' in the literal sense of the term, you have to admit, the product is crazy watered-down in comparison to ANY era before it. Punk said it himself, the title hasn't been interesting in a very long time. Raw hasn't been interesting in a very long time. If he sees it, why can't you?

I don't think I'm taking our my frustrations on the wrong thread at all. This thread has been done a million times here. It's just another guy complaining about PG. The OP was complaining about kids being the focal point and the lack of interest in the title has nothing to do with that. What do you mean by watered down anyway?

 

[chitownballa]

Well they are not suceeding at atracting all demographics. ratings have declined from 7% of households watching... to 2.9%.

Attendance has declined from 14,000 per event, to 6,000. I guess you dont remember how proud the WWE was to be able to say "Sold out for months". That was a staple of Jim Ross's commentary to open Raw each week from '98 to '00. I can still remember it.

and PPV buys have been gutted in half... and that is generous. They averaged a 1.3 in 2000. WWE has been forced to double PPV prices in 12 years, way ahead of inflation, too make up.

What reference point are you using for these statistics? I wonder how much of it is due to just saturation of the entertainment market in general. There's a million other ways people can be entertained nowadays, with expansion of the internet, on-demand programming, growth of online gaming, etc.

 

[Bernkastel]

A 25 year old bitching about the kid friendly product and wishing wrestling was still edgy; hypothetically, if wrestling was still the same as it was ten years ago, then what are the odds of that same 25 year old still wanting to watch the product when he turns 35 or 40?

There is no guaruntee for older fans that got into wrestling as kids during the Attitude Era to continue to remain faithful to the product as they get even older. Pro wrestling for many young fans is merely a phase that they grow out of, and the fans that continue to watch into their 20's and 30's are even more likely to grow out of the product once they get married, have children, and go on to have successful but stressful careers that occupy most of their time.

The PG era of WWE was a natural business move that had to be done in order for the company to slowly appeal to the younger kids so that in 10 to 15 years it will guaruntee that the company still has a fanbase of some sorts.

Adults that feel the need to constantly complain about the product being too corny or kiddy, all I can really say to them is tough shit... the business changes and evolves to ensure its survival, and older fans just need to accept this.

 

[Just2Sweet]

As a fan who's first memory of wwe was watching Macho Man turn on Hogan and go into his jealous rage, I think that Vince is making sure that the product keeps cultivating new fans. Obviously, Vince is starting to give up the day to day responsibilities to others. But we can't keep crapping on the product. They have to constantly make new stars to keep things interesting and from the 3 men who were in the ring on Monday night (punk, bryan, and ryder) they are doing that. Vince doesn't have to completely step aside but gently hand over the reigns to the new leadership, which he has done. Vince will run the WWE until his dying day because it is the only thing that he knows. Is he insane? At times, yes. But at the same time, he needs to make sure HHH is completely ready to take over all aspects of the business that he put most of his life into

 

[Rckstrtmmy]

Well they are not suceeding at atracting all demographics. ratings have declined from 7% of households watching... to 2.9%.

Attendance has declined from 14,000 per event, to 6,000. I guess you dont remember how proud the WWE was to be able to say "Sold out for months". That was a staple of Jim Ross's commentary to open Raw each week from '98 to '00. I can still remember it.

and PPV buys have been gutted in half... and that is generous. They averaged a 1.3 in 2000. WWE has been forced to double PPV prices in 12 years, way ahead of inflation, too make up.

All business is cyclical my friend. There are ups and downs. Not to mention we're in a recession and have been for a while. Sure, the ratings and buys may be down but I'll take the WRESTLING that we get today over the bloodfest brawls of the attitude era any day of the week. The characters were great during the Attitude era. That's what drove the business then. Now those guys are long gone and the WWE has some great young talent thats really starting to come into their own and it's going to be gold to watch. If you remember correctly, all the top guys in the Attitude era flitted around and messed with their characters for a good 2-4 years before they got over and really took off. It will happen again with guys like Wade Barrett, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Tyler Black, Mason Ryan, Skip Sheffield, Zack Ryder ect running around. I guarantee it.

You seriously post a thread every day about something you don't like about the WWE or something that you think they need to change. Just stop fucking watching already if you don't like it and STFU.

 

[KillswitchEngaged]

I cant really rip on the whole PG thing. I was a fan of wrestling WAY before the Attitude Era. There was no cussing and still the then WWF put out a great product. Then the Attitude Era changed everything. During the late 80's and early 90's they appealed to kids with Hogan and Warrior. Then catered to that crowd once they got older with Stone Cold and The Rock.

I am now 30 and see a similar trend with what is going on now. I see new talent coming in and possibly see another turn around to cater to the soon to be teens. Talent like Del Rio, Ziggler, Rider and Cody. These are the new breed of wrestlers who I can see in a few years being the new faces and have attitude to back.

The people who really complain about PG are the people who were (KIDS) during the Attitude Era. Now they are just stuck with a product that looks to be on the heels of a turn around once Vince leaves.

Trust me I have seen worse from the WWE, I lived through the early 90's.

 

[TM Punk]

Now, this is a tough argument to make even though I feel its a conversation worth having. If you agree or strongly detest, I would like to hear input from all sides.

For over a decade, I have seen a product once predominantly geard towards the 18-24 demo, be sliced and diced up, then spit out and reduced to an athletic circus with super hero invitations to 7-11 year olds. We have lepracons, bright orange or purple gear, THE MUPPETS, not a cuss word in sight, attempts at comedy that make me cringe, and gimmiks that leave me saying, " I'm a 25 year old man watching this?" Say what you want about WCW but they kept Vince competing for the young-adult-male demo. Does anybody else love it when The Rock shows up simply for the era that he represents? The one of ****ts, hoes, and "know your damn role".

Vince has got to do 3 things. Get out of the movie business, Stop seeking political office (Linda), and get his fingers off the comedy.

Vince may have become his own competition and he needs to be filtered.

Its pretty awesome that you throw out attendance figures and ppv buys, and all of that when you in no way made mention of that in your OP. Just saying. And I know that they just came out with a muppets movie a few weeks ago, but as far as I know the muppets were at their peak in popularity in the 70's and 80's, so how is that exactly only targeting todays kids? The muppets are fun for everyone, and if you can't understand that, then you just don't understand/appreciate good comedy.

Now I know you like to keep the ratings and the attendance numbers in your back pocket to throw out whenever you're backed into a corner, but seriously this has nothing to do with numbers. This has to do with a 25 year old man being mad that there are no longer 14000 people calling vince mcmahon an asshole. You're mad because there's no blood, no chairs to the head, and not enough matches where all they do is run around the entire arena fake punching at each other. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the attitude era. I own 5 WWE dvds: bothe stone colds, the rock, shawn michaels, and jericho. I'm a fan of the attitude era. It was great, its also over. And above that I'm a wrestling fan. They don't cuss as much because its unnecissary, they don't bleed because its unhealthy, they don't weild chairs at eachothers heads because of chris benoit. It shouldn't matter anyways.

I like to throw this stat out a lot. In the WWE's entire what... 40+ year history... 6 of those years were aimed toward a more adult audience. Why, because it is and always has been a family show. Some of my best memories as a kid is sitting at my house or my cousins house and watching raw, or a PPV as a family. That's what its about, its not about 1 25 year olds selfish wish for things to be how they once were. Its about a father being ableto take his son to his first wrestling show and buying him his first john cena shirt because he's the kids fucking idol. You're mad that they don't swear? Do some research besides attendance numbers and you'll find that the most menacing heel of all time in jake the snake roberts never once swore, or raised his voice. They didn't hate Mr Perfect because he called them all peices of crap. They hated him because he said he was perfect, and then went to the ring and was perfect.

Now take your 14000 attendance numbers, shine them up, turn them sideways and stick them straight up your candy ass. Happy now?

Ps: vince is doing a fine job.

 

[ns530]

wow...you guys are pretty harsh.

The attitude era is gone because that wave of talent and writing is gone.
It's about making money and Vince makes more by appealing to a larger base - children. It's always about the $.

As a side note, I hope the numbers continue to fall to the point he eliminates all these pay per views. Vince is a pimp and we're his hoes.

Don't like it? Then don't buy it.

 

[sephx42]

I don't think I'm taking our my frustrations on the wrong thread at all. This thread has been done a million times here. It's just another guy complaining about PG. The OP was complaining about kids being the focal point and the lack of interest in the title has nothing to do with that. What do you mean by watered down anyway?

'Divas' went from female wrestlers, to fitness models, to just plain models. Now they're just eye candy that can't wrestle the 5 minutes they're given. Remember when Chyna was a believable IC Champ?

Top heels went from charismatic, powerful, rich, and devious to what? Mindless, fan-hating reality stars? I mean, i don't even get why Miz is a heel. There's no story to it. Alberto has a destiny he'll do anything to achieve. Then he got it....then what? Nothing.

What about the faces? Punk is enjoying the Stone Cold comparisons because of his current 'fight the power' gig, but let's be honest - Johnny Ace ain't the corporation. What about our modern Hogan, John Cena? He carries the company through the dry spell, works every damn show he can...and gets booed? I'll tell you why, too...he has no Savage, a bro that turns on him and breaks him while we watch and build sympathy.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. That's what I mean by watered down, but I could probably go on and on about it.

 

[Bernkastel]

'Divas' went from female wrestlers, to fitness models, to just plain models. Now they're just eye candy that can't wrestle the 5 minutes they're given. Remember when Chyna was a believable IC Champ?

Top heels went from charismatic, powerful, rich, and devious to what? Mindless, fan-hating reality stars? I mean, i don't even get why Miz is a heel. There's no story to it. Alberto has a destiny he'll do anything to achieve. Then he got it....then what? Nothing.

What about the faces? Punk is enjoying the Stone Cold comparisons because of his current 'fight the power' gig, but let's be honest - Johnny Ace ain't the corporation. What about our modern Hogan, John Cena? He carries the company through the dry spell, works every damn show he can...and gets booed? I'll tell you why, too...he has no Savage, a bro that turns on him and breaks him while we watch and build sympathy.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. That's what I mean by watered down, but I could probably go on and on about it.

It's no secret that the current crop of talent aren't nearly as good as the superstars 10 years ago. WWE is just now getting to the point [hopefully] where someone other than Cena or Orton can carry the company, and have people care enough to tune in. The Divas divison died when its two biggest draws retired at the same time and they have yet to find adequte replacements.

I would also argue that creative isn't nearly as motivated because the current crop of talent isn't as good as it was in the past; the writers are "experimenting" to see what the fans want to see and what they don't to see. Once the WWE establishes a drawing product the writers will up their game and produce higher quality material.

 

[TM Punk]

'Divas' went from female wrestlers, to fitness models, to just plain models. Now they're just eye candy that can't wrestle the 5 minutes they're given. Remember when Chyna was a believable IC Champ?

Top heels went from charismatic, powerful, rich, and devious to what? Mindless, fan-hating reality stars? I mean, i don't even get why Miz is a heel. There's no story to it. Alberto has a destiny he'll do anything to achieve. Then he got it....then what? Nothing.

What about the faces? Punk is enjoying the Stone Cold comparisons because of his current 'fight the power' gig, but let's be honest - Johnny Ace ain't the corporation. What about our modern Hogan, John Cena? He carries the company through the dry spell, works every damn show he can...and gets booed? I'll tell you why, too...he has no Savage, a bro that turns on him and breaks him while we watch and build sympathy.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. That's what I mean by watered down, but I could probably go on and on about it.

Sable, trish, lita, tori, terri, the kat, stacy keibler, sunny... attitude era divas were models. You used 1 example of a freak woman. Punk doesn't want to be stone cold, and he's doing nothing that stone cold did, besides not liking his boss. And no one forced us to love hulk hogan, we just did. Vince tried to force us john cena, and build him up as hulk hogan light. The ones who boo, are the ones who saw through it. It has nothing to do with him not having a savage to his hogan, or a rock to his
austin.

And as for the miz, once you get past the fact that he was on mtv 7 years ago what do you have? You have a pretty decent worker, who cuts one of the best promos on the roster. He's not the biggest guy in the world, but he is good

 

[giblet55]

Maybe it's the circle of life in the wrestling business? Maybe the WWE realizes they had you, but now that you're older they can potentially lose you as you mature and trek your way into a life of marriage, kids, and a career. They only have one option left....your kids.

They can market to the next crop of loyal fans and maybe even guide their minds through a version of what we knew as the "attitude era," when your kids are in their teens.

 

[sanefan_har]

Is it just me or do the writers have no idea of how many people are there in the smackdown and raw rosters?

There are so many wrestlers and by default more number of feuds that can be created. A Dibiase-McIntyre Feud, an alex riley-justin gabriel feud etc etc

Instead we get crappy santino and hornswoggle segments not to mention a waste of time with jinder mahal.

No full blame can be put on vince the writers need to let him know there are other wrestlers.

And to those who think the earlier days were better, think again. Back in the day we had useless filler matches involving THE RED ROOSTER, HILLIBILLY JIM and what not?? I really think the writers should take a stand for themselves and push an idea forward instead of just succumbing to Vince's last minute changes

 

[ECW Sandman]

I have been watching wrestling for almost 27 years I have seen it all from the Hogan era The Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals era Austin,Rock/HHH era and this era everything changes for a reason just like giblet said they are geared to attract kids with and I hate saying this John Cena he is this generation's Hulk Hogan but there's a big difference Hogan was loved by everyone he had that magic to play to the fans, John Cena only has the females and kids behind him and people who just like the AE and get mad about the PG era well it's full circle for the WWE right now in the 80's and to mid 96 it was the PG era as well so if you like wrestling just for the AE and not for the 80's boom to 96 I believe you should not watch wrestling at all then til you learn to appreciate the older generation of pro wrestling.

 

[suleman09]

Maybe it's time for you to step aside. I'm guessing you weren't complaining about wrestling being targeted toward 7-11 year olds when you were that age. You got to enjoy the product as a kid so what gives you the right to try to deny kids today of that same pleasure. If you got your way then kids could complain that the product is not meant for them. But that doesn't matter because you're more important than they are right?

I'd like to second that

I grew up on WWE, i started watching when i was 5, that was 16 years ago. Sure I miss the Attitude Era, but i understand why they are doing what they are and I respect it and hell, PG or TV-14, i watch WWE for WWE not for the rating of the content!

Sure vince's days as chair are numbered now. But he got to be a billionaire somehow right? He knows what he's doing.
Some dont like it, and some do but hey, can't please 'em all right?
He is pleasing the majority that are bringing in the money, which at the end of the day, in a business thats all that really matters.

I say keep it up Vince and when you step aside I hope the WWE continues to be awsome!
:wwe: