I just think that Grffey isn't as clean as we all think. Like I said, all the injuries that he had are common in steroid users. They are common in all athletes, but moreso in steroids users.
But not common along that timeframe.
Piazza hit more homeruns, yes, but Biggio had more hits, doubles, triples, walks, a higher batting average, OBP, and most importantly, won more games. If you compare Biggio's homeruns to the average leadoff man and Piazza's to the average clean up hitter, you would also note that Biggio has a higher value over replacement player.
Piazza was in the playoffs annually as the Mets leading producer, while leading his team to the World Series much sooner. Piazza's average was .308, Biggio's was .281, Piazza's OBP was .377 and Biggio's was .363.
You'll also note Piazza was the highest run producing catcher during his prime. Biggio struggled to remain at the top for OBP, even below Piazza in this case.
Biggio also struck out an additional 600x than Piazza, given they have 4 years difference in playing careers, 600 more strikeouts is still a lot. Biggio also stuck out 100x on seven different occasions while Piazza never has.
OK, after doing some research, I will grant you that Pudge had a batter career than I thought, but I would still take Biggio over Pudge. It is tough to give any baseball reasons, like "you build up the middle" but Biggio was a guy who could play any position on the field and hit anywhere in the lineup.
Hmm, 2nd baseman or best fielding catcher who is a legend at handling pitching staffs? Watch the Marlins 2003 postseason run and how Pudge handled the pitching. Amazing.
The leader on all of those teams was Smoltz
As a Braves fan I'll have to tell you it wasn't. Everyday players take more of a leadership role than a starter/closer.
Lance Berkman might argue with that.
He'll have fun remaining on the losing end of his arguement.
Well, Biggio didn't get to a world series until he had three pitchers the likes of which Chipper had his whole career. He had the advantage of playing in a weak division that assured them the playoffs every year. I'll grant you Chipper though, unless I need a hit.
Maybe their production has a part in it. Biggio hits around .234 career in postseason while Chipper is at .288 career. I'd think you would remember Chipper's 9th inning HR of off Billy Wagner a few years ago to win the game.
You're opinion that he's not clutch? I think it's actually on the contrary that Chipper shows up in the big time. Biggio has more Ks with RISP & 2 outs than Chipper does.
There is more to the game than HR's and RBI's. You can build the Yankees all you want, but I'll build the Cardinals. I will build a team full of high on base tough guys instead of preening primdonnas.
The funny thing is that Sosa may be the classic slugger, which you need on every winning team, but he's actually only .8pts lower as a career hitter and .18 pts lower in getting on base. Pretty good for a 4th hitter as compared to a leadoff hitter.
McGwire is an interesting case. His numbers all consistent throughout his career. My problem is that he couldn't move, clogged the basepaths, and had no versatility in the field. Plus, he got nowhere close to 3,000 hits. Of course, iggio's 250 HR's as a catcher and second basemen don't come close to McGwires, but again, I would venture that Biggio's value over replacement player would be higher here too.
I guess it's a matter of opinion. You underestimate the value a great power hitter provides a line up with. I wouldn't want a roster full of them, but they are almost a requirement if you want to win.
Jeter gets the benefit of playing in New York. HE has a weak arm, jumps and turns to get on TV, will be remembered as a great defender for two plays, and no one will remember that he sucks at turning the double play. He has had the benefit of playing in a little league park his whole career, and still has far less homeruns than Biggio did at this point of his career. Jeter drove in his first career game winning run, this year. He has protection in the lineup the likes of Gary Sheffield, A-Rod, Paul O'Neil, etc. Biggio has had, batting in the two hole behind him, Shawn Berry, Derek Bell, and a bunch of guys that I can't remember.
He's a tremendous leader, a .309 career post season hitter, arguably the best pure base runner over the course of his career, and has the it factor. Jeter is better across the board, Average, OBP, Slugging, and Jeter has 5 seasons to catch Biggio in total bases, which if he remains healthy, should easily do.
You might want to kill yourself when you reread this argument.
Or you might want to actually look at his lack of production of being a pure leadoff hitter. He doesn't have to be a pure leadoff hitter but don't make an arguement that he was.
Biggio's numbers were hurt by the alignment of Minute Maid. They built that yard for Bags, and it took Biggio time to adjust and find where to put the ball to get the extra bases. And by the way, if you watch Biggio, he had a skill for putting the ball in play in between guys like only Ichiro can do.
You made an arguement for why he isn't great, and followed it up with why he's very good. I agree.
